Match-Up Discussion #27! Luigi

[elheber]

Because of Luigi's short range compared to Marth, Spotdodging and Rolling becomes a vital part of Luigi's defense and his best way of getting "inside". Marth's Short Hop approaches become predictable real quick. All of this, combined with his Fireballs, allows Luigi to play a defensive game in which he waits and punishes.

Marth still has the edge because of his speed, range, and power. He's also not as easy to punish because he generally has low lag attacks. But from what I've noticed, a good Luigi (there aren't that many) still at least has control of the pacing.

 

[hippiedude92]

Elheber, Marths would WANT YOU to roll/spotdodge them. Marths are special in punishing spotdodgers/rollers. Looking on how Luigi's roll is so medicore, Marths can easily use a dtilt and use it's IASA'frames and use dancing blade to punish you.

And Marth can easily bypass fireball walls just by running or fair swatting it lol.

But yes, luigi has to highly rely on wait and punish.

LOL @ EL. Matador, where the f*** did you find that quote?

 

[Steel]

Marth loves it when his opponents start to roll and spot dodge. They eat dancing blade.

 

[hippiedude92]

IIRC, I'm sure most marths dont do the down dancing blade but still, luigi can DI out of it and use Nair (?) and upper Db combo puts luigi in a bad position too.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Luigi doesn't do 60% if he gets inside Marth's range.

That's only if the Marth is stupid. Marth has ways to escape being "comboed", although granted I will point out that Marth doesn't like being above anyone.

If there is ANYONE that can do 60% to Marth once they're inside his range, it's someone like DDD.

As for Mario gimping better than Luigi, Mario has disjointed techniques you can't DI to save yourself from, and these techniques can pressure Marth into the position where he's forced to recover from below and risk getting edgehogged. Mario is also better at ledgestalling than Luigi, so can more reliably edgehog Marth. Luigi has an extremely hard to aim spike and otherwise fairly standard aerial attacks that aren't particularly special, meaning unless Marth is at the high percent where he would be KOed by the aerial, he can just DI up and he will have another chance to get back.

The greater distance at which Luigi can edgeguard isn't really significant here since Marth isn't the kind of character that is unable to attack offstage. Not to mention he isn't really able to edgeguard at that much of a greater distance than Mario when you factor ATs like Cape Gliding.

Plus, Mario has a better fireball.

 

[feardragon64]

Luigi doesn't do 60% if he gets inside Marth's range.

That's only if the Marth is stupid. Marth has ways to escape being "comboed", although granted I will point out that Marth doesn't like being above anyone.

This^

Dolphin slash

10ScreamingDolphins

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Is there any matches we can look at to illustrate both of our points?

A pro Marth vs a pro Wigi?

 

[elheber]

Yep. And it also demonstrates how Spotdodging and Rolling become vital for Luigi.
Loucan vs. Bacon R1
Loucan vs. Bacon R2
Loucan vs. Bacon R3

 

[Emblem Lord]

That Marth was trash.

Seriously it was.

He throw out random F-smashes and dropped down to edgeguard with up b and just....UGH!!!!!

 

[Steel]

Yep. And it also demonstrates how Spotdodging and Rolling become vital for Luigi.
Loucan vs. Bacon R1
Loucan vs. Bacon R2
Loucan vs. Bacon R3

Yes, spotdodging and rolling is great against terribad fsmash-spamming marths.

 

[hippiedude92]

So is this done yet? The only positives luigi has is a ground tornado approach, camping fireballs. (Most of these can just be avoided lol). And marth's positives theres too many =/

30:70 yes for marth?

 

[Steel]

I put it at 70 30 yes

 

[_Kadaj_]

Luigi isn't easy to gimp he can over b. Drop all the way down down b the use his second jump and still can up-b

Trust me one this one gimping his is nowhere as easy as you guys make it seem

60:40 imo or at best 65:35

 

[hippiedude92]

Luigi isn't easy to gimp he can over b. Drop all the way down down b the use his second jump and still can up-b

Trust me one this one gimping his is nowhere as easy as you guys make it seem

60:40 imo or at best 65:35

What? ARe you saying ledgedrop tornado? That's a horrid option. If your saying a rising tornado recovery to gimp marth if hes edgeguarding, that'll probably work 50% of the time if the MArth isn't careful. But though, a rising tornado can send marth in a angle where he can't recovery. MArth's Fair/counter/dair spike > Luigis green missle/shoryuken/rising tornado.

Luigi on the other hand can't gimp as well as mario but still has a bair stage spike and fireballs if marths aren't carefull nuffsaid.

 

[_Kadaj_]

Yea I know that but smart players don't just do simple recoveries they mix it up a lot

Maybe because the only good lugi I played was boss

 

[Pierce7d]

Eh, Luigi's fireball is useless. It doesn't stop Marth in the air. Compared to Marth's frame 4 Fair, it's pretty slow. Especially considering Fair cuts through it and still hits Luigi at close range, or just hits Luigi first. If Marth isn't close enough to do this, he shouldn't even be in the air getting hit by fireballs. If you fireball on the ground, they should be perfect shielded.

I still think 75-25 Marth

 

[Matador]

Everyone sucks online, an skill shouldn't be measured solely thru wifi. Common knownledge.

Things like edgeguarding tactics, KO percentages, and normal tendencies are what I generally look for. Wifi sucks, but it's reliable in just generally looking at a matchup. That's what why I want a few matches vs a decent Marth.

WTF!!!!

Who the **** made that qoute?

I did NOT say that.

I would NEVER say I WANT to play someone online.

WHAT THE ****?!?

lol I was going to say this as well....

Are you that bored that you'll go around misquoting people?

Erm, misquoted. Meant to quote myself to emphasize that I wasn't measuring player skill or anything. The quote was from my post before the one here.

Emblem Lord DID NOT EVER write "Anybody play online?".

 

[Pierce7d]

Yeah it was pretty obvious that he didn't mean to do it IMO

 

[Matador]

My bad Emblem Lord XD

I'm too lazy to dig up incriminating quotes even if you had any.

 

[feardragon64]

Sorry matador. I'm not very creative so I couldn't think of any other reason that would happen =b

Anywho, I'll go with 70:30 since yes, he doesn't have the gimping powers of mario and his fireball is a bit less practical. But still, Luigi has a MUCH more dependable recovery in comparison to mario so I think it's a bit much to say 75:25.

 

[_Kadaj_]

70:30 is good enough 65:35 at best for luigi

 

[Lukenessmonster]

I learned a lot about this matchup from playing polmex around 10 times. heres what i learned:

Shoryuken ***** marth, if you get too predictabel with your air dodges or approaches, your gonna get ***** since its kills around 60-70.

luigi is all CQC, he doesnt have much range. but once he gets a hold of you, its a good 30-40 percent everytime. his downthrow to upair ***** and if he keeps doing that at low percents you can fair or upb. but look out for his dthrow to upsmash, itll get ya.

stay the **** away from luigi. just do the double fair and back up, he cant do anything other than downb. dtilts work pretty well too.

be careful when edge guarding luigi since his downb can gimp you at really low percents.

also be aware that his Nair kills you around 100 if fresh. so if your trying to combo just watch out, dont get too greedy.

i think 70-30 is a bit harsh, maybe in the near future 60-40 but id say its 65-35 since he can kill you pretty fast

mainly, just stay away from luigi, dont get predictable, watch out for his downb when hes rising from under the stage and youll be fine

 

[Punishment Divine]

lol yeah i played Polmex in pools at COT4, And I also played BigLou a lot pre-tourney at Inui's and I must say Luigi has so many built in mindgames it's not funny. Be intelligent and remember that you can DI while in the air and don't just airdodge into him, I fell for i t a few times and ate a Shoryuken almost every time. Don't let him get near you pretty much and don't give him room to breath. Luigi is one of the few characters that can combo Marth and has outs if you find a way to break one combo somehow. Try not to get off the stage, as well because Weegee can edgeguard surprisingly well.

I would say 65-35, because 70-30 would insinuate this is easy. You still have to think a lot and be an intelligent player.

 

[ZHMT]

Polmex is tooooo good. I say 65-35 (not 70-30) cause of the stuff he can do to my Marth rofl

Theres combos....like...ghey combos....its hard to explain...

Its also hard to edgeguard a smart Luigi, down b, forward b, and up b....down b can gimp Marth easily.