Match Up Discussion 2010 (Zelda vs Meta Knight)

[Darkmusician]

I agreed with you up until this part. x.o

Secretly, I go for Naryu's all the time in friendlies just because it's such a pretty move..... but yeah, it's pretty bad. Half the time there's no way to tell where they'll end up going (besides knowing they'll go somewhere in front of you), but it has saved me as a combo breaker, so it's not utterly useless. Just something of a crapshoot.

Where do you guys take MK? And an even bigger question: what do you ban?

If I were to play against MK in tourney with Zelda (LOL), I think I'd ban Delfino. Almost said RC, but his ability to shark on Delfino seems way more annoying. .....Or maybe Brinstar? Just trying to start some kind of useful discussion. x.x

Here's the system that Lethal Trilogy(LT) and I usually run when we play MK vs Zelda.

LT takes port 1
I take port 4 (I just like my green shield matching with my green color)

Stage Striking
LT strikes Smashville
I strike Yoshi's Island
LT strikes Battlefield
I strike Pokemon Stadium

We play on FD

Under the extremely unlikely chance that I win on FD I would ban Yoshi's Island

Based on what stage LT picks I would probably switch characters. I'm pretty sure the only time I'd stay the same character is if he took it back to a starter stage.

If I lose the first round LT will ban Battlefield (because he knows I'm really good there).

I would take him to Smashville and do my best.

 

[KayLo!]

Ah, you guys have PS1...... do you think it'd go the same way if Lylat was a neutral in place of PS1? That's how most tournaments are set up in Atl North.

EDIT: I mean in terms of stage striking.

 

[Darkmusician]

I can't speak for LT because I don't know how much he likes or dislikes Lylat.

As for myself I would strike Lylat if it were between FD and Lylat. I prefer the flat static FD over the moving of Lylat.

 

[KayLo!]

Yeah, I figured as much. I was more so wondering if he'd change his strikes, but I guess it wouldn't make a difference since (I assume) he'd still wanna get rid of SV and BF.

 

[Darkmusician]

Yeah LT has been striking SV for about the past 2-3 tournaments or so. And BF is a must vs me. Pretty much everyone strikes/bans it against me.

 

[Geddan]

darkmusician is a beast on battlefield, never play him there. EVER.

 

[MrEh]

I play him of BF a lot.

With subpar results.

 

[Blitz808]

DarkMusician is good on Battlefield, but I strike the stage just because I don't like it very much. I'd rather fight on Smashville or FD.

 

[MrEh]

I like to fight MK on Yoshi's. It's such an amazing stage for characters that don't have to move. lol

 

[Bandit]

I agreed with you up until this part. x.o

Secretly, I go for Naryu's all the time in friendlies just because it's such a pretty move..... but yeah, it's pretty bad. Half the time there's no way to tell where they'll end up going (besides knowing they'll go somewhere in front of you), but it has saved me as a combo breaker, so it's not utterly useless. Just something of a crapshoot.

Where do you guys take MK? And an even bigger question: what do you ban?

If I were to play against MK in tourney with Zelda (LOL), I think I'd ban Delfino. Almost said RC, but his ability to shark on Delfino seems way more annoying. .....Or maybe Brinstar? Just trying to start some kind of useful discussion. x.x

They can SDI in against Zelda and the last hitbox can miss them. It will always send them in front of her but how far is the question.

Naryu's is only good for MK because of the invincibility frames. If he is pressuring you, it would work, but it will probably only buy you a reset.

As far as OoS Bair/Fair. If he's on the ground, I'm pretty sure SH Bair hits him (could be wrong...) but MK is going to be pressuring you in the air. There is no reason he'd just sit on the ground. He can't dash in because his dash approaches are beaten by dtilt. He can't ground nado because it is beaten by dtilt. He if just walks forward dtilting, try grabbing or angled ftilt or fsmash (or jump away and dins).

OoS Bair on an aerial opponent is much easier and more likely. A lot of times, we'll just Usmash for the sake of landing the move, but the best pay off is landing the kick. It hurts more and he'll remember it.

The only way Zelda can win this game is to frustrate the MK into making mistakes. You have to get in the head of the MK that your wall of defense is superior. He'll start taking different routes to approach you that he isn't used to and Zelda can punish them.

If he plays campy MK and Zelda is forced to approach, this is 100-0 MK. Get inside the MK player's head and make him uncomfortable.

-----

As far as stages...

FD makes the most sense. His platform game is superior.

Never go to PS1. Those ledges will end you.

I like Norfair for Zelda (it's legal in MLG) but he is far superior. It might be a good stage to throw him off if they aren't used to it (but he'll probably just plank and time you out).

I'd take him to Brinstar if I had already won on FD. I'm comfortable there, personally, and used it as my main CP when Norfair got banned. I don't know if it makes the most sense, but I wouldn't go Battlefield.

Smashville is okay, I just really hate the stage overall.

 

[sniperworm]

Yeah LT has been striking SV for about the past 2-3 tournaments or so. And BF is a must vs me. Pretty much everyone strikes/bans it against me.

I like playing you on Battlefield. I'd take that over Yoshi's or PS1 any day.

 

[HylianMageAuree]

Eh, we're getting sort of off-topic...
Back on topic:

As far as stages...

FD makes the most sense. His platform game is superior.

Never go to PS1. Those ledges will end you.

I like Norfair for Zelda (it's legal in MLG) but he is far superior. It might be a good stage to throw him off if they aren't used to it (but he'll probably just plank and time you out).

I'd take him to Brinstar if I had already won on FD. I'm comfortable there, personally, and used it as my main CP when Norfair got banned. I don't know if it makes the most sense, but I wouldn't go Battlefield.

Smashville is okay, I just really hate the stage overall.

I agree for the most. FD seems decent vs MK and so does SV (personally I'd rather pick SV). Brinstar... I don't know how well we'd do there. It seems plausible though... how would we handle the match up here? I'm pretty inexperienced on Brinstar as it is, let alone vs MK. I know we get ***** on Frigate, Halberd and Delfino. How about Pictochat? I think we'd do alright there... but I don't know how well MK would be able to abuse it against us.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Since pictochat is a busy stage i'd imagine comfot level plays a bigger role on it. but isn't it big?

i don't really see much reason to take MK there other than for gimmick support.

 

[HylianMageAuree]

Since pictochat is a busy stage i'd imagine comfot level plays a bigger role on it. but isn't it big?

i don't really see much reason to take MK there other than for gimmick support.

Yeah, this is what I've been thinking. It's just so hard to find a decent counterpick vs MK, so I'm looking at all the possibilities here, lol. I guess we should just play it safe and counterpick a neutral stage.

 

[KayLo!]

Pictochat is bad. The ceiling's way too high, and a lot of the transformations don't benefit us.

That being said, I'd probably do it just for the lulz. Jank stages are the best. <3

 

[HylianMageAuree]

Pictochat is bad. The ceiling's way too high, and a lot of the transformations don't benefit us.

That being said, I'd probably do it just for the lulz. Jank stages are the best. <3

Ha! I'd say if you're having a hard time beating 'em as it is, at least have fun trying to do so. : 3

 

[MrEh]

Ask the MK if he agrees to go to WarioWare.

It's your best shot at winning.

 

[HylianMageAuree]

Ask the MK if he agrees to go to WarioWare.

It's your best shot at winning.

LOL, so bad, haha!

 

[Kaffei]

I don't think Pictochat is a good idea because the horizontal blast zones only helps zelda die sooner if she gets hit by SL

 

[Darkmusician]

I recommend staying to stages that are as least intrusive as possible. The less stage movement, weird blast zones and hazards are a factor the better.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I Personally like Yoshi's in this fight, but that's just me. Any neutral is fine by me. CP wise, I would need to test out some more with RedHalberd. I like Green Greens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =D

 

[KayLo!]

What do Zeldas have against Yoshi's anyway? x.x I actually kinda like the stage with her..... the middle platform ****s with people who like to be in the air all the time. And Mr. Eyebrows has saved me a few times when I needed it.

I'm guessing it's the high ceiling...... ?

If it's the slopes, that's dumb. They're not THAT annoying.

 

[Darkmusician]

sniperworm doesn't like the slopes because it increases his chance of tripping. He trips a lot.

The slopes are a nuisance for me when I space. I also prefer FD, SV and BF edges over YI. I will play on YI however if I know what my opponent likes to counter pick over YI.

 

[Veggie123]

i think it's because they don't like getting stuck when teleporting back. though can be remedied by not holding a direction if you want to go straight up.

though if you ever need to recover like that, you should be getting hogged anyway!

 

[KayLo!]

Ah, okay, I see. I do like FD and BF more, but sometimes I prefer Yoshi's over SV. =X Dunno if that's just a weird personal thing tho.

 

[Kaffei]

Idk if it helps you guys but a lot of MKs tend to dislike YI.. so you can press your luck there if you feel daring lol

 

[MrEh]

In all honesty, it's up to personal preference. If people feel that Yoshi's is a good choice, then it's up to them. As long as it's a neutral, then you're better off. At least no one is taking MK to something dumb like Brinstar or Rainbow Cruise...

 

[Kaffei]

In all honesty, it's up to personal preference. If people feel that Yoshi's is a good choice, then it's up to them. As long as it's a neutral, then you're better off. At least no one is taking MK to something dumb like Brinstar or Rainbow Cruise...

Brinstar is so gay.... It's my favorite CP ever but it's so stupidly good for MK.. I'd personally ban it from play

 

[HylianMageAuree]

In all honesty, it's up to personal preference. If people feel that Yoshi's is a good choice, then it's up to them. As long as it's a neutral, then you're better off. At least no one is taking MK to something dumb like Brinstar or Rainbow Cruise...

Definitely. And to add on to the Yoshi's Island discussion, I agree with DarkM and Veggie. It's pretty much the slopes that mess up my overall spacing and the weird stage roots that mess up my recovery. I don't know if it's a personal thing that depends on play style, but I rather not go to Yoshi's here. Same with PS1, horrible ledges are horrible... the only thing that could be useful here is the overall largeness the stage has and some of the stage changes are actually beneficial to us (overall less pressure since MK doesn't have any projectiles).

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I really don't mind PS1. Maybe I'm just an oddball.

I look at how can the stage help me and forget how it can hurt me so that always worrying about the stage messing me up. It helps me stay focused on the baddies.

 

[HylianMageAuree]

I really don't mind PS1. Maybe I'm just an oddball.

I look at how can the stage help me and forget how it can hurt me so that always worrying about the stage messing me up. It helps me stay focused on the baddies.

Yeah, you're right. I think PS1 is relatively an okay stage for us, at least vs MK.

 

[Darkmusician]

PS1 gives MK lots of space to run away and air camp.

 

[HylianMageAuree]

You mean, to run out the timer? Yeah, that could be a problem. But wouldn't Din's Fire pressure his air-camping? I mean, I know Din's is far from the best projectile but we can at least force him to approach if we pressure him with it.

 

[MrEh]

Not exactly to run out the timer. MK can just use the space well to camp Zelda. And considering Zelda's approach options are terrible, MK with the lead can run away and he can keep the lead easily, since Zelda will have to go after him.

Din's is a poor tool to use to force an approach unless your opponent has no idea how Din's works or it's wifi. If it's a neutral situation, then sure, Din's can make MK move. Otherwise, MK won't care if you throw fire at him as long as he has a lead. He'll camp despite of it.

 

[Darkmusician]

Din's won't force MK to approach on PS1. At full stage length it's going to be hard to hit him with it. At mid range there's the risk of him coming after you if you're careless with it.

 

[MrEh]

And then there's the magical transformations that block everything...

 

[HylianMageAuree]

Note 'Zelda' vs MK, not Sheik vs MK. ^^;

 

[MrEh]

Note 'Zelda' vs MK, not Sheik vs MK. ^^;

Stage transformations. Not Zelda's downB.

 

[HylianMageAuree]

Stage transformations. Not Zelda's downB.

Fail, completely misunderstood that... lol
I guess it's just so hard to not assume that since it's basically mentioned everywhere I go. ^^;

 

[KayLo!]

Man, ftilt is a *****. MK on the ground isn't that bad (.....relative to the rest of the matchup), but ftilt is annoying as hell.