Marth Question and Answer Thread - Incomplete Percent Data added!

[Superninjabreadman]

I've never really tried the Hyrule Jump. He might be able to with the use of his neutral B.

He was barley able to make it in melee, (with my skill level) and if what the guy above said is true, it'll be nearly impossible.

Auto-Sweetspot'll help.

 

[Irow]

Well, let me update here with my progress on the guides...

Introduction to Marth - It's nearing completion. It'll be due within two weeks after Brawl's US debut. Note, this is not going to be an in-depth guide. It'll cover the basic play with Marth, and what techniques and strategies you'll need to play Marth at a casual to semi-competitive level.

Marth Match-up Guide - This here is a hard one. I'll post it within one month and add a lot more to it as I play more. This is not going to be just one section in some guide. This will be fleshed out to the max, to the likes never seen before. All competitive Marth players can message me comments on Match-ups. It'll really help, and I need the help.

The Competitive Marth - This is nowhere near done. It'll have percents, damage deterioration rates, a general idea of how to play Marth at the current Metagame (Yes, I'll update this at least once a month), detailed explanations on each move and how to use them. It'll also contain a combo guide, although I doubt that will be very long. The guide will be updated continuously, and I'd appreciate all competitive players thoughts on strategy with Marth.

 

[Superninjabreadman]

Well, let me update here with my progress on the guides...

Introduction to Marth - It's nearing completion. It'll be due within two weeks after Brawl's US debut. Note, this is not going to be an in-depth guide. It'll cover the basic play with Marth, and what techniques and strategies you'll need to play Marth at a casual to semi-competitive level.

Marth Match-up Guide - This here is a hard one. I'll post it within one month and add a lot more to it as I play more. This is not going to be just one section in some guide. This will be fleshed out to the max, to the likes never seen before. All competitive Marth players can message me comments on Match-ups. It'll really help, and I need the help.

The Competitive Marth - This is nowhere near done. It'll have percents, damage deterioration rates, a general idea of how to play Marth at the current Metagame (Yes, I'll update this at least once a month), detailed explanations on each move and how to use them. It'll also contain a combo guide, although I doubt that will be very long. The guide will be updated continuously, and I'd appreciate all competitive players thoughts on strategy with Marth.

Sounds.. helpfull, I'll probably be using the Combos the most : \

Im casual, to tell the truth, but.. the line between casual and competitive is thinner now.. so..

 

[Pin0yb0y707]

Hey Irow I'll play you in brawl =] I think we played at the tourney in the church in October or November? I was playing as Marth

 

[Irow]

Oh yeah, I remember you lost to my little brother. He played Fox.

I main Marth. Do you have a crew? Do you want to lose? Lol, Jk. But seriously, do you live on the Bethel side of town? You best get the best people you know... Because West Vallejo is ****.

Annihilation by Devastation is my crew. We're so far undefeated... So please, please, please tell me you know the major East Vallejo crew? I heard they were good, I have to put them in their place. We're bringing Vallejo to the major scene... We're not kidding, we're good. At Brawl, and especially at Melee.

So PM me, I'll give you a week to train in Brawl. I'll even teach you some Marth things if you want.

I'm having a tourney on Saturday, it's free entrance fee. PM for details.

 

[Irow]

Bump. Seriously, instead of spamming up the board with simple questions, go ask them here.

Why isn't this stickied?

 

[frankisvital]

Here's something (I think) I noticed, but I'd like to see what others notice.

Marth's running speed, as noted in the original post, is currently being debated. However, I noticed yesterday while playing through SSE (which is FREAKING EPIC, **** all thah hatas) that he starts slow, then accelerates fairly rapidly to a very speedy dash.

Is this is just in my head or has anyone else noticed it? I haven't checked with any other characters, and I haven't looked too much into it beyond the initial observation, but I think it's worth confirming at least.

 

[kidbu916]

is ledge hopping still in ? is ledge hopping an aerial back onto the stage still in also ?

 

[Irow]

Edge hopping is still in. And for Marth it is amazing. Edgehop Up B makes you invincible and creates space. Edge hop aerials are all way too good. You have to press down quite a bit harder to get off the ledge, however.

 

[Ryusiodo]

How useful do you think the fair is now? I can't seem to chain them anymore...I don't if it's just me or anything though.

 

[Vortok]

Here's a question I never quite found the best answer to in Melee (granted, I never did any tourneys so my level of play was never that high). What's the best way to deal with an opponent behind you? Such as when you shield an aerial and they DI past you to land behind you. Half the time out of reflex I've tried a short hopped bair or nair which often whiffed over their head (especially nair, which I don't really try in that situation as much anymore).

Would dropping shield to a Dancing Blade or doing a Reverse Dolphin Slash work (hell, fsmash seems to come out quickly from shield, though it won't be a tipper unless they space it for you, lol), or are there better options? The time it takes to drop my shield, turn around, and then attack was often enough for them to avoid punishment... at least in Melee. Haven't played enough Brawl to be sure on that front.

 

[Almo]

Here's a question I never quite found the best answer to in Melee (granted, I never did any tourneys so my level of play was never that high). What's the best way to deal with an opponent behind you? Such as when you shield an aerial and they DI past you to land behind you. Half the time out of reflex I've tried a short hopped bair or nair which often whiffed over their head (especially nair, which I don't really try in that situation as much anymore).

Would dropping shield to a Dancing Blade or doing a Reverse Dolphin Slash work (hell, fsmash seems to come out quickly from shield, though it won't be a tipper unless they space it for you, lol), or are there better options? The time it takes to drop my shield, turn around, and then attack was often enough for them to avoid punishment... at least in Melee. Haven't played enough Brawl to be sure on that front.

i seem to have that problem too. the bair goes over thier head completely. basically what ive accustomed myself to instead of the missed attack is just rolling away so you face them and it's just resetting a situation. i'm sure there are better solutions, but this is what ive found the easiest way to avoid being hit due to arials that wont hit.

 

[Irow]

If it's a really laggy attack, you can jump forward a little, and bair, it should hit... Not on the smaller characters however.

What always works is a nice Dancing Blade out of shield. Use it and learn to love it. You could dair, but unless they're at really high percents, you'll probably get hit. A better kill is a reverse dolphin slash. It'll kill at higher percents, plus you're invincible during the first five or so frames.

Ryo, fair's do not chain like they once did. Now focus more on getting one or two in only. Tip to set up for a good edgeguard. Fair, if they airdodge, hit with a nair.

 

[Ryusiodo]

Thanks for the tip. (Marth pun not intended) However, I still miss the Fair combos...Sigh but with Brawl are new strategies and adaptations.

 

[Hydde]

yeh, it reallu sucks that the back air now has very crap range. It used to be one of my best surprise move in close combat.

Its a shame really

Its has better knockback now tho , if used properly-

 

[Irow]

It is amazingly easy to tip with his Bair. Well, it is for me. RAR Bair ***** as a surprise. RAR Bair Fair is really quick, and is a good way to apply pressure.

 

[Almo]

If it's a really laggy attack, you can jump forward a little, and bair, it should hit... Not on the smaller characters however.

What always works is a nice Dancing Blade out of shield. Use it and learn to love it. You could dair, but unless they're at really high percents, you'll probably get hit. A better kill is a reverse dolphin slash. It'll kill at higher percents, plus you're invincible during the first five or so frames.

Ryo, fair's do not chain like they once did. Now focus more on getting one or two in only. Tip to set up for a good edgeguard. Fair, if they airdodge, hit with a nair.

if you have tap up for jumping turned off, isn't it impossible to up-b out of shield unless you hit X or Y? If so, doesn't this make it more difficult, and less useful since you need excellent timing or else you will leave the ground and may go over smaller characters completely?

What about powershielding mechanics? I know they don't reflect attacks anymore, but i can't recall if the shield pops up for 1 frame and then goes away like melee. If that's true, then i was fooling around today with marth's dtilt IASA frames and you can do reversing tilts, like similar to a dash dance, only with....down tilts....it was pretty cool switching directions without standing up, and seemed useless, and has probably already been known, but if the powershielding thing works, then a reverse down tilt could be used, and since marth moves foward now, it should reach them. Just a thought, even though perfecting powershielding timing is tought as it is.

I completely agree with your last section there.

 

[Irow]

You can Up-B out of shield by just pressing up-b.

Powershield can instantly drop. It eliminates all shield lag.

 

[SiShenDao]

even though bair has a lot less range, it's possible to bair fair in a single short hop.

also does anyone know where marth's forward b spike area is? i've actually had the third down b spike a few random times but i can't seem to get it a lot.

 

[Irow]

I think its the tip. It could be the hilt though.

 

[Anomic_Punk]

I have a question~

Does anyone have any knowledge about the Marth vs. Dedede matchup?

It seems nearly impossible to win.

Dedede waddle-dee camps, camps in his shield, and shield grabs into chain throws across whatever stage you're playing on, usually to a throw off the ledge to a b-air edgeguard.

Marth can jab waddle-dees away- no problem

Marth can't approach with much besides f-airs through the waddle-dee spam

F-airing on Dedede's shield gets you shield grabbed, unless spaced properly



So... I'm asking for advice on approaches and also edgeguards on Dedede, because any 3xD player who ISN'T ******** will still recover through Marth's b-airs and f-airs off the stage, and possibly f-air or b-air Marth against the stage for a nasty stage spike.

Any ideas?

 

[Irow]

Try to fair going forward, then DI back. Make sure you space your tip is just inside D3.

Forward B works wonders B-Sticked. To B-Stick, set c-stick to special. Jump forward and C-stick back. You'll forward b with reverse momentum.

If you they're gonna sheild, grab. Back/front throw, or don't even throw at all. Get in those jab hits. If they mess up, get a dash attack or forward b in. Possibly fair.

Off the edge, keep fairing and bairing. Put on that damage, keep him off the edge, even if you dont kill him. Learn the length of yoyr hitboxes and try to tip every aerial. A good trick is to nair him at a nice percent while he's off the edge. If you tip, it will **** him. If not, it's stronger than fair or bair.

Abuse D3's bigness. You can hit him with a lot of moves easier than a character like Lucas.

The main thing is to try to tip. D3 matches are a good tool to force you to learn the length of that sword and its tip.

 

[Avulse]

Is practising spiking really crucial now? Since it's harder to do at not used as much as it was in melee... I mainly get side KOs and occasionally star KOs and the only reason i can think of to spike is if i'm on the edge to make sure the person trying to recover dies.

 

[zapdose]

Should we fast fall Marth's aerial moves now? If not all of them which ones?

 

[Irow]

You can fast-fall his fair and his nair. Normally I don't fast-fall because I just DI back after approaching forward. His nair requires you to do it while in a fast fall however.

 

[Vashima]

Now, what would your advice be for ditto Marths?

I have troubles avoiding gimps from my opponent.
When I try to recover back onto stage, usually Final Destination, my opponent footstools me, following with a spike sometimes.
Mainly I was just wondering what I should be doing, in general, when I go against another Marth.

 

[Irow]

Marth dittoes are the dumbest thing in this game.

Hit with one fair and DI back, or he will fair you back. If you can, you might be able get a second one in. Its all about spacing.

Off the edge, you shouldn't be getting footstooled while Marth. Spam Fair and airdodge to discourage an aggresive edgeguard.

 

[Vashima]

Sorry if you think Marth dittos are stupid, I'll counter pick with a different character next time.

Thanks for the advice, any way.

 

[Irow]

Fighting another Marth is like trying to catch your reflection. Winning is almost reduced to getting lucky with the tip.

 

[Vashima]

I understand. I didn't meant for my last comment to sound like an insult, or anything.
I'm not used to posting in smashboards.

 

[cheifrocka]

i also like to mix in a down b every once in a while to offset a predictable edgeguard, like a bair spamming rob.

 

[knightpraetor]

sorry just wanted to ask how to dair spike with marth..i haven't practiced much with it in brawl..i just noted it was harder..are you still aiming to tip with the dair in order to spike? what determines whether it spikes or sends them upwards?

 

[Creo]

From what I examined(and tested), I find that a little above mid-range of your sword but not the tip seem to get it for me.
This may help. Watch the Ken Combo at 20sec and watch the ending Dair at 23sec. It really just takes some practice to get the timing.

 

[JesiahTEG]

According to M2K, Ken combo doesn't work unless your opponent messes up..

 

[Creo]

According to M2K, Ken combo doesn't work unless your opponent messes up..

That's a downer... But, I only showed the video for the Dair Spike since that was knightpraetor's initial question.

 

[knightpraetor]

ya, i'm tempted to put some stuff up on the Dedede matchup since it's the only matchup i play. But, as of yet i don't feel comfortable enough to be giving advice. Marth can't approach blindly against Dedede or you get grabbed. However, it's really easy to get close enough so that he can't safely toss things and then pressure him into something. moves out of shield **** dedede. spacing is not as simple as in melee..so if you try for the old solid approaches you'll probably get destroyed. Run in and shield ftilt and then punish with something fast..or just try to hop over it. I prefer to just bait them into tossing a waddle dee and then punishing...

What is this i hear about marth's sword tip not actually being at the tip? where is it then?

I don't think about such things or test it in combat. It's simpler to just rain destruction with your newfound aerial power + over B for power regen. At first marth seems to have less safe of an approach than in melee, but then you realize how much everyone else's approach is worthless in comparison and you feel a little better

 

[zapdose]

Does Marth's counter help stop momentum? Can it be used a la fox or falco's shine in melee after you get hit to reduce the distance?

 

[Caturdayz]

Hello everyone. I am a Marth-Mainer from Melee and I need a little bit of help edgeguarding.

I play a pretty good Marth. However I have had some troubling edgeguarding in the new game... What are some effective techniques in Brawl?

 

[alchfilosofer]

Hello everyone. I am a Marth-Mainer from Melee and I need a little bit of help edgeguarding.

I play a pretty good Marth. However I have had some troubling edgeguarding in the new game... What are some effective techniques in Brawl?

counter if the enemy has predictable U-B (fox, mario,...), try to use f-air whit the c-stick and use the control pad to make sure you'll save yourselve, foot stood whit peach/pit/charisard/metaknight (any character whit float like abilities) if they are using their float ability and learn to stage spike them whit dolphin slash.

That is all i remember

 

[Irow]

Fair and Bair them while off the stage. It's normally that simple.