Marth DOES NOT counter Peach

[KirbyKaze]

marth, fox, and sheik all **** peach come on people we can agree on this.

 

[exarch]

whoa, okay i'm double posting bc i didn't see this.

first, calm down man. if you think i'm a troll, then that's your opinion. seriously, calm down. i'm just trying to make my points. no need to be a jerk.

if you think it's such a **** match up, then quit peach and pick up sheik. see if you can beat m2k's marth with that. if it's such an obvious troll, then stop posting here. jeez.

i was going to reply to your points, but it's not even worth it.

Actually I'm not angry at all. I called you a troll because I didn't think anyone could honestly think marth peach was even, so it seemed to me you were just trying to entice responses like mine (and others.) I apologize if you took that much offense to it. I figured it was just a silly name over the internet.

And actually I do play sheik now, and have used her in tournaments against marths for the past 2 years or so.

But I would be interested in your counterargument. I didn't think it existed after I demonstrated marth has the theoretical advantage in all of the basic aspects of a fighting game.

 

[CanISmash]

razor you make no sense.

marth = bully with 4 inches over the kid.
pressing his hand on his forhead.

peach = the little kid swinging but can't hi because she has no reach.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

razor you make no sense.

marth = bully with 4 inches over the kid.
pressing his hand on his forhead.

peach = the little kid swinging but can't hi because she has no reach.

like tum tum from the 3ninjas LMAO

 

[IrArby]

Okay. You're wrong.

A counter is purely when a character has a distinct advantage over another in a matchup. It can be a low tier having an advantage over a higher tier (Ganon over ICs, Young Link over Peach) or a high tier over a lower tier (Sheik over Bowser, Anyone over Mewtwo ) or it can be among similar level characters (Fox over Peach).

More Grrr

So everyone counters Mewto? Don't be thick. Mewto plain sucks. The name counter suggests that the countered character has a distinct advantage over many characters but not this particular counter character. To have a distinct advantage over many characters would place you high in the tier list. Probably higher than the counter character.

Ask a Fox main if they go around countering everyone. You'll look dumb. Again
Azen for at least one tournament said that he'd be going all Shiek and Marth and counterpick everyone. Most people play Fox, Falco, Marth, and Shiek. Marth counters Falco (and is seeded lower) and both Shiek and Marth go nearly even with Fox (and are seeded lower).
Countering Marth with Shiek is still acceptable sounding since they're next to each other and by this time the tier list was already pretty outdated since Ken/M2K's Marth were ****** almost everyone. Most people call it a soft counter if they call it a counter at all. Even though Shiek meets the requirements of a counter (she isn't as aversely affected by Marth's distinct advantages over other chars).

Feel free to go back to Brawl and throw around the word counter as much as you'd like.

@Razor: Yes I know exactly what you mean. You're reffering to setting him up for an edgeguard or hitting him to far away to comeback to the stage.

@Lumpy CPU: 3 Ninjas FTW. That movie has almost as many one liners as Heavy Weights.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

lmao haha
yeah. i remember when the main villain was like, "tell them we'll ship the missiles tomorrow. man, i love being a bad guy." and then they started the maniacal laughter hahaha

 

[slikvik]

OP is delusional...

 

[VA]

Exarch speaks the sense of an experienced Peach player. He's explained the why's and wherefors of the match up; peach will always be beaten by marth at high end play.

Razor will not give a counter argument as Exarch rightfully stated; it does not exist.

/close thread

 

[LumpyCPU...]

proving points is for losers!

 

[Dark.Pch]

The reason why this match up is not good for Peach at all is cause of 2 things.

- Marth has Range and speed.

- Peach is easy to combo. Being a floaty sucks azz. Your range is short too. All you have is turnips which help to a lil extent. He can also make it hard to get inside while he dishes out his attacks.

With Fox, even though he gets at Peach good. His range is short and its not that hard to get inside. Plus one grab can equal his stock. (Chain grab plus good eguarding) Not saying this is easy but done right its over and you alteast have that option.

Falco you have power shielding his lasers. And once you get close to him, A dmsash can get so much on him since he is the fastest falling in the game. And you can chain grab him too.

Sheik I say is a lil less of a problem then marth. Its not too hard to get inside shiek. And to me she is easy to edguard. What I do is grab the edge as soon as shiek Up-B. Sheik is not gonna have a choice but to go on the stage, and if there are no platforms on the stage. (love FD for this) You can Dsmash her right back out. And she can handle herself well upclose against Sheik. Not easy though but yea.

With Marth he just limits your options.

- He is so good at keeping Peach out of the stage.

- Easy Death combos on you.

- Tipper that kills you at crazy % due to her being light.

- YS with Marth is hell on earth for Peach.

With all this said. its pretty much a counter.

 

[Razor]

More Grrr

So everyone counters Mewto? Don't be thick. Mewto plain sucks. The name counter suggests that the countered character has a distinct advantage over many characters but not this particular counter character. To have a distinct advantage over many characters would place you high in the tier list. Probably higher than the counter character.

Ask a Fox main if they go around countering everyone. You'll look dumb. Again
Azen for at least one tournament said that he'd be going all Shiek and Marth and counterpick everyone. Most people play Fox, Falco, Marth, and Shiek. Marth counters Falco (and is seeded lower) and both Shiek and Marth go nearly even with Fox (and are seeded lower).
Countering Marth with Shiek is still acceptable sounding since they're next to each other and by this time the tier list was already pretty outdated since Ken/M2K's Marth were ****** almost everyone. Most people call it a soft counter if they call it a counter at all. Even though Shiek meets the requirements of a counter (she isn't as aversely affected by Marth's distinct advantages over other chars).

Feel free to go back to Brawl and throw around the word counter as much as you'd like.

probably the smartest thing said in this thread. (even if he's not agreeing with me)

to exarch,

i only said "on paper" or "in theory" because people were trying to compare m2k vs cort as a practical argument. m2k's skill is way higher than anyone, so it wouldn't work. he'd probably beat cort in dittos if he wanted. with turnips, in theory, marth can avoid turnips completely and never get hit, but so could any char. that theory is basically flawed bc if you spam and play campy as possible, the marth is still going to get hit. am i wrong? i wasn't really trying to say "practical" examples don't work, i'm just saying that realistically a marth was going to get hit and that we shouldn't use personal bias like pulling out vids of m2k killing peach all day.


when i talked to ignatius sometime ago, he said he took azen's marth down to the third match and last stock or something in one of the mlg's. his basic jist, was that at a very high level, the match up isn't as bad as it looks. the reason is because from mid to very very high level of play, the marth combo's are basically the same. and i agreed. but at a high level, peach can do a lot more with aerial to d-smash comboes and proper spacing can lead to grabs or even a little tech chasing. if he misses one f-smash, peach can go in and deal damage.

he also said that high level foxes can do a lot more damage to peach because it's almost default that they can waveshine to death and up air comboes. i found that interesting since he was dominating a lot of foxes when i saw him.

i still feel like the match up is basically even or only slightly in marth's favor. at this point, i've stated my opinions from first page and if no one wants to help me out, close the thread.

 

[Samochan]

No one wants to help you razor because they simply know better than you to agree with your views.

But yea, let's forget this. Razor is not delusional, he's completely insane. >_> Lost clause basically, I'm done with here as he doesn't listen to reason.

But don't come whining back to us when m2k 5 stocks you with marth's fsmash to prove it to you marth counters peach, on 4 stock game no less.

 

[Fuzzyness]

lol fox + marth have horrible constant setups on peach that leave her with no options or hardly anything safe to do to escape

 

[LumpyCPU...]

lol fox + marth have horrible constant setups on peach that leave her with no options or hardly anything safe to do to escape

but it's cute

 

[Me14k]

Dark Peach, for the first time in a long time (ever?) I agree with everything you said in your last post.

Marth ***** peach.

And for you to say that peach is good against marth because of turnip spamming is ridiculous. If this was true, samus, doctor mario, and falco would dominate marth...and they dont.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

well just to a douche, i'm gonna say that my friend was beating my fox consistently with his marth.
eventually i ran out of options and went peach.
i didn't lose a match after that.
even though i agree that marth counters peach, it's still my best option at this point (which sucks)

my point is that it doesn't matter to me that it's a counter because none of my alts are good enough lol

 

[IrArby]

Still Marth isn't a Peach counter (just to clarify) he just has a bigger advantage on her than most matchups amonst the top 6.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Still Marth isn't a Peach counter (just to clarify) he just has a bigger advantage on her than most matchups amonst the top 6.

Put the Best Peach players in the nation against M2K's Marth. he is not losing.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

gawd hahaha
marth's her worst match up next to fox, right?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Its within fox or shiek. cant tell both are nasty to her in thier own way.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

sheik? really?
i don't have enough experience for this to matter, but i never thought she was as hard as fox.

 

[Dark.Pch]

shiek is broken. And sheik can gimp her easy as well as the combos. Its not a pretty fight. She has somewhat of a chain grab (Depends on how you DI) and she has the Dthrow to Fair combo on you which is not that hard for sheik to land. Peach being easy to combo just makes is a breeze for sheik. And sheik is also good at keeping her out of the stage. Tilts get her too from sheik for easy set ups.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

yeah i see that.
i guess i've just played more good foxes than sheiks.