Marth Changes in new Patch

[Locuan]

I'm getting d-throw to uair to combo on CF at like...80%. pretty sure that wasnt a thing before. Also getting true combo at kill percents vs CF until like 120ish. i think it used to fall off around 100%...but someone should double check.

I'll check, this is odd.

 

[Rewrite]

Dancing Blade can true combo

I'm getting d-throw to uair to combo on CF at like...80%. pretty sure that wasnt a thing before. Also getting true combo at kill percents vs CF until like 120ish. i think it used to fall off around 100%...but someone should double check.

I already diiiiiiiiiiiiid.

 

[MaximalGFX]

I'm getting d-throw to uair to combo on CF at like...80%. pretty sure that wasnt a thing before. Also getting true combo at kill percents vs CF until like 120ish. i think it used to fall off around 100%...but someone should double check.

Did you test all those throw follow up with DI? I feel like I barely hit them in trainning mode, if they would DI it would never hit. Right?

 

[Boomerang78]

Marth feels exactly the same to me. Testing out both the patch and pre-patch versions of Marth yield no differences for me. He still has laggy aerials, his dair hitbox is the same, his sword feels like it's the same length, etc. As for the combos against Captain Falcon, if Falcon DIs it it's not even close to a combo, unfortunately.

 

[Locuan]

@ Emblem Lord , I can't get it past 65%-ish or so. Regardless, it wasn't a thing past very low percents before regardless. This is interesting. For 80%+ are you hitting with a specific part of the sword? Double Jump used? (Probably) At what height more or less where you inputting U-air?

 

[Langston777]

just in training mode. Ike, Toon Link, Jigglypuff... no matter what combo i do of ups and downs and straights they'll fall out at random %s depending on he character. Ike falls out of every 4th hit of every combo post 80%. TL just falls out at random. Jigglypuff floats out no problem. DB3 down is still useless. it's like knowing what DB combo to use and at what %'s is constantly match up specific. this move shouldn't be like that. i wish it could be utilized better but the fact is if it doesn't combo all 4 hits together it's risky and thus limits you from using the move.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I short hop instant double jump uair. SH with X then immediately input U on joystick and hold it as I press A.

just in training mode. Ike, Toon Link, Jigglypuff... no matter what combo i do of ups and downs and straights they'll fall out at random %s depending on he character. Ike falls out of every 4th hit of every combo post 80%. TL just falls out at random. Jigglypuff floats out no problem. DB3 down is still useless. it's like knowing what DB combo to use and at what %'s is constantly match up specific. this move shouldn't be like that. i wish it could be utilized better but the fact is if it doesn't combo all 4 hits together it's risky and thus limits you from using the move.

over 40 chars in the game my man. Marth mauls Jiggz so it really doesnt matter btw.

Is smash your first fighter? Char specific combos arent new by any means.

 

[Locuan]

I short hop instant double jump uair. SH with X then immediately input U on joystick and hold it as I press A.

All right, I'll try it out with this input. Also, be wary of your double posts.

 

[Langston777]

no, it's not - but when your BnB whiffs on the entire cast under different conditions, that's a bit of a problem, wouldn't you agree?
you were saying DB was buffed in a way that it puts the opponent where they should be for the follow ups. i'm not noticing any changes on dancing blade. for me it's still just a low % damage builder and ez spotdodge catcher. i wouldn't rely on it for kill combos due to DI

 

[Emblem Lord]

If you aren't noticing how chars like Greninja are getting comboed at 0 when before it would whiff idk what to tell you.

This game is full of chars with different weights and hitboxes and fall speeds. Not every move will work exactly the same vs everyone or have the same effect.

That said I'm not gonna defend my observations. Do what you feel is best for you and your gameplay.

 

[Locuan]

Can confirm that with @ Emblem Lord 's input on the d-throw > u-air observations, I am able to get that combo past 80% in training mode. @ Rewrite , I am still unable to get the f-throw > f-air. Is there a specific input or has this been debunked?

 

[Moydow]

This is in training mode, but I can true-combo kill Greninja and Fox at 90% from the edge of FD with DB forward-up-down-forward. Forward-up-forward-up kills at 100-110%.

 

[Langston777]

^ i take back what i said. testing it on greninja DB forward 1-4 seem to true combo according to the counter. not doing that on 1.0.5 3ds version

the only weird thing is i don't see any visual difference. greninja still looks like he lands after the 3rd hit at low %s. it still doesn't make sense to me, it's almost like landing lag was increased rather than DB getting buffed. wish sakurai would just release some god damn patch notes

 

[Emblem Lord]

I think land recovery has increased a bit which would be INSANE for chars like Falcon and ZSS who have scary as all hell landing traps.

 

[Locuan]

Confirming @ Moydow 's observations as well.

 

[Shaya]

These could all combo/kill before. Just had to be either perfect execution windows, spacing or both.
But yeah, I'm looking forward to the potential of getting kills sub 100% consistently with dancing blade; something that happens at least once in a while and now hopefully will be something people qq about :3

 

[Emblem Lord]

I def wasnt getting these to kill consistently before. Certainly not vs heavier characters. Hitstun def went up. Marth has enough time to do forward b then forward b again and if he whiffs the second hit he can do up b 3 then up b 4 and it still registers as a combo. Maybe that was a thing before idk I didnt try it but the hitstun seems better now.

 

[Shaya]

Are you saying db1 into db1?
Also either the jab windows could've been altered (larger so easier) or that whole ignoring inputs because you input too early bull **** that was in melee, but not in brawl, got removed [again].

But, if you've never hit someone with tipper dancing blade before, you probably never aerial db1'd and combo'd people at kill percent with it.

Input perfectly, dancing blade came out really really fast. The jab windows for it all started within 2 frames of the hitboxes being over. It just was really ****ty/annoying to time your button presses properly.
DB1 -> DB3 comboing is something I'm sure I've seen happen before.

 

[Emblem Lord]

DB1, DB2 (whiff), DB3, DB4 - 3 hit combo

 

[Quickhero]

@ Shaya if you haven't already add the DB buff to Marth on the patch notes. I don't think Lucina gets it because I don't think Lucina mains talk about it but if they do and you have tested it out add that too. I know you might be a bit suspicious on the whole f-throw and d-throw buff but even you have seen the power of the new Dancing Blade and I want others to be aware of the change.

 

[Shaya]

I'll probably add a small tidbit that multihit moves may have been adjusted to link better.
We'll find out how when the data dump comes.

 

[Zorai]

Downthrow into bair/upair working on Fox and Falcon until 80% is a real gamechanger.

Downthrow upair working on characters it didn't before (Greninja etc) is a gamechanger.

The new dancing blade is a gamechanger.

Overall, I am very impressed with the new Marth. Especially considering there are movement modifications made to him that we are yet to fully discover. They made him so fluid it's insane.

 

[Quickhero]

I'm dubious on what GiMR is saying but he could be right. As I said I'm a bit dubious because combo potential overall hasn't increased. I mean it's only been a day but still. We're one of the few boards that actually has combo gains.

 

[Zorai]

I'm dubious on what GiMR is saying but he could be right. Although at the same time I'm a bit dubious because combo potential overall hasn't increased. I mean it's only been a day but still. We're one of the few boards that actually has combo gains.

They did something to the engine as a whole. We aren't sure what exactly. I wouldn't like to give what I think is the case, because I'd rather just wait for the data so everyone can see for themselves.

 

[Shaya]

We were confirmation biasing dthrow combos after the last patch too. HOLD UP.
Thinkaman already confirmed that the end lag of it hasn't changed (I believe). We were getting "combos" in the training counter for dthrow up airs for AGES last time as well, don't make me have to search and link you guys going "DTHROW TO UAIR ON X WORKS at 80%+!!!".

And although we're all thinking and seeing otherwise, initial tests of Dancing Blade don't show differences between versions either. But once data gets dumped we will know for certain.

I'll be exceedingly shocked if Marth ended up being completely untouched this patch. But right now we have nothing definitive to prove otherwise.

 

[Gawain]

We were confirmation biasing dthrow combos after the last patch too. HOLD UP.
Thinkaman already confirmed that the end lag of it hasn't changed (I believe). We were getting "combos" in the training counter for dthrow up airs for AGES last time as well, don't make me have to search and link you guys going "DTHROW TO UAIR ON X WORKS at 80%+!!!".

And although we're all thinking and seeing otherwise, initial tests of Dancing Blade don't show differences between versions either. But once data gets dumped we will know for certain.

I'll be exceedingly shocked if Marth ended up being completely untouched this patch. But right now we have nothing definitive to prove otherwise.

Indeed. There is definitely nothing (or very very little) different about his throws. I'd be curious to know if dash startup is faster though. Some characters feel a little faster. DB is comboing on Greninja though, and apparently it didn't at low percents in the previous patch. That should be looked into.

 

[Illuminado]

We were confirmation biasing dthrow combos after the last patch too. HOLD UP.
Thinkaman already confirmed that the end lag of it hasn't changed (I believe). We were getting "combos" in the training counter for dthrow up airs for AGES last time as well, don't make me have to search and link you guys going "DTHROW TO UAIR ON X WORKS at 80%+!!!".

And although we're all thinking and seeing otherwise, initial tests of Dancing Blade don't show differences between versions either. But once data gets dumped we will know for certain.

I'll be exceedingly shocked if Marth ended up being completely untouched this patch. But right now we have nothing definitive to prove otherwise.

Initial tests between versions? :S. I tested DB between versions against a FF character (Sheik) from 0% as purely a side variant (all four inputted as side). In the previous patch she'd fall out between the third and fourth hit before around 40% and break the combo counter. In the new patch, it combos straight from 0%. Something has changed for sure ^^. Additionally, good morning. lol.

 

[cerealkiller]

Was any significant change (not %damage changes) confirmed? I played a bit last night and I felt no difference. I'm not saying they didn't change anything it just seemed to me that everything felt the same. The throws feels the same, the range feels the same, aerials ending lag feels the same, DB inputs feels the same (easy offline, stupidly inconsistent online).

 

[Illuminado]

Was any significant change (not %damage changes) confirmed? I played a bit last night and I felt no difference. I'm not saying they didn't change anything it just seemed to me that everything felt the same. The throws feels the same, the range feels the same, aerials ending lag feels the same, DB inputs feels the same (easy offline, stupidly inconsistent online).

Read the thread dude ^^. We can't say a lot for certain until the data comes out but I'd say there are a few quality of life changes that work to make his game work and flow more smoothly such as the db changes.

 

[cerealkiller]

I read the thread, and several others Everything I read is accompanied either by lack of solid confirmation or placebo effect claims. That's why I'm was wandering if anything else major was found. Because I don't really care for %changes, I think Marth attacks are OK the way they are, regarding %.
I also shared my experience with the new patch, even though I didn't play much to be certain either... Maybe they did in fact change the DB but when I went online it felt the same.

 

[Buffoon]

What if they've tweaked the tipping mechanic? Instead of calculating it at the sword's tip, it tips at the edge of the arc drawn by the slash.

That depends on what you call the "edge" of the sword arc/trail. The arc of Marth's F-Smash can just barely reach through the platfom(s) above him in Battlefield, however; the opponent takes no damage from what looks like should be a tipper; instead that "barely missed your opponent spark" appears.

 

[diclonyuus]

I've been reading all over the place that D-Air-Spike got buffed in some way or is easier to land. I have to say that I felt nothing like that when I tried it out, which really made me sad, as I loved spiking with that move in Melee.

I'm dubious on what GiMR is saying but he could be right. As I said I'm a bit dubious because combo potential overall hasn't increased. I mean it's only been a day but still. We're one of the few boards that actually has combo gains.

Wouldn't something like that really pop up all over the place, though?

 

[Freelance Spy]

That depends on what you call the "edge" of the sword arc/trail. The arc of Marth's F-Smash can just barely reach through the platfom(s) above him in Battlefield, however; the opponent takes no damage from what looks like should be a tipper; instead that "barely missed your opponent spark" appears.

Spark is a phantom hit, they are literally a Marth main's least favorite thing to see.

 

[Rewrite]

Can confirm that with @ Emblem Lord 's input on the d-throw > u-air observations, I am able to get that combo past 80% in training mode. @ Rewrite , I am still unable to get the f-throw > f-air. Is there a specific input or has this been debunked?

I submitted it to the Marth true combo thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/ive-made-a-list-of-marths-true-combos.387633/

I compiled a list of characters it doesn't work on, as well as percentages it does.

 

[MaximalGFX]

Can they just decrypt the update data already haha? It didn't took too long last update, I hope we'll get the data very soon.

 

[Moydow]

Can they just decrypt the update data already haha? It didn't took too long last update, I hope we'll get the data very soon.

We should have it once Dantarion is back. From what I've heard, that'll be Sunday at the earliest.

 

[fox67890]

My brief experience with marth:

*Dancing blade is much much more consistent
*down throw combos are much more consistent. In training mode, i was able to down throw> tipper up air captain falcon and kill him, with it registering as a true combo. That *definitely* wasn't doable before
*forward throw combos are also more consistent. Before, SH shieldbreaker true comobed from forward throw, but with the patch, it's much easier to land and do at higher percents (not saying this is a good option, just making a point).
* They definitely changed dair. Personally, I dont feel any change in regards to lag as some others have mentioned. However, I feel like the spiking hitbox is out a bit longer. Before, only right below him spiked, but now, it spikes a bit in front of him as well (I was actually able to stand right in front of cptain falcon and Sh dair and get a spike. And that's without drifting at all). Also, before the patch, if someone regrabed the ledge and you were right by it, you could only Sh dair into the ledge and get it to spike with your back turned. Now, I can get it to spike regardless of which way marth faces. Probably due to the spiking hitbox being out a bit longer, which now allows it to spike a bit in front of him and not just simply under him.

There may be more stuff, but thats all i recognized within30 minutes

 

[Solutionme]

So after testing on for glory, with slight input lag sadly, f throw to tipped fair does work as does down throw to tipped bair or uair. f-throw can only combo into a tipped fair as it just happens to be able to hit right at the same time as the stun ends and no ken combo exists unfortunately, I was really hoping Marth would be quick enough on the ground to catch up and dair but he just isn't. I am absolutely positive fair's arc has been improved since i hit with the bottom of the slash meaning it is easier and safer to space which is awesome. Dair does not seem to have been changed so nothing there sadly. F-smash kills just slightly earlier about 4% more i think it was on Lucina getting lowered to 116% from 120% and so does does up-smash but i'm not sure about the percents on that one. Dancing blade as we already know is a lot more consistent now too. However what with the evasive DI and still powerful air dodges despite the nerf, Marth has sadly not improved much with his normal set. despite that, crescent slash became Marth's most viable move with f throws knockback reduction, meaning it is even easier to guarantee than before since diagonal DI used to save your butt. So it seems that custom Marth is gonna be our future.

 

[LyonDRC]

Guys, the throw combos (down throw to up air and forwasr throw to f-air) have always been there.

 

[Quickhero]

@ LyonDRC Yes, it indeed as. However, it hasn't been as reliable before since it stopped becoming a true combo earlier than it does now, and f-throw and d-throw also didn't transition into kill combos either. :3