Marth Changes in new Patch

[Illuminado]

Okay lads, lets make this the place where we post all of the changes we find for Marth in the new patch (if any).
Keep it Marth specific and I'll collate them all here in list form once they're fully tested and confirmed. Feel free to post things along the lines of "feelings" but keep it specific so we can all work towards verifying their validity.
Will be back from work at about 7PM GMT and will start testing myself at that time and checking some of the things I've read. All the best everyone and keep that testing going .

Right guys, I'm back. Hit me with things you've found and what we want tested and we can get a list going.

 

[Gawain]

I'm almost POSITIVE they increased the range on his attacks. Also, special effects in general seem different? Almost across the board. Anyone else noticing this? Marth's slash "wave" seems different somehow. Same with the Falcon Punch animation. Maybe that makes it seem like his range is bigger.

I think he might dash a little faster too? Just initial impressions.

 

[Radirgy]

I read his down throw up air is now a true combo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFKRIZ2HO_k
However it could just be because this is low %, we'd have to test it against lv9 cpus and real opponents.
Also hearing rumors of Ken combo now being doable.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I think he's largely the same. Nothing improved in my eyes, D-Throw to U-Air is still difficult with certain foes or higher percentages.

 

[Gawain]

I read his down throw up air is now a true combo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFKRIZ2HO_k
However it could just be because this is low %, we'd have to test it against lv9 cpus and real opponents.
Also hearing rumors of Ken combo now being doable.

That was always a true combo at low percents on some characters. And I really, really doubt that second rumor. A cursory test still makes me think that's not happening. Fair doesn't send them up in this game, and that's one of the most important parts about the combo. That said, dair seems maybe changed? So maybe you can combo into a dair, just not from fair.

 

[Cactusblah]

He feels faster and better. I can more easily follow up attacks with more attacks. I still struggle to get kills.

 

[Gawain]

He feels faster and better. I can more easily follow up attacks with more attacks. I still struggle to get kills.

I'm seeing the speed for sure. Ike is a TON faster too. I think they buffed a lot of movement speed across the board from just looking at a couple characters. Everything else feels a little slower now in comparison (rolls etc)

 

[Minato]

Side B seems easier to connect after I patched the Wii U version. Tried it on non patched 3DS and had difficulties. Patched that and now it feels like the Wii U.

 

[Umby]

Haven't accounted for human DI, but dthrow -> uair is comboing at higher percentages in training mode, and some characters can get combo'd by fthrow -> dash -> fair. I've had success hitting some characters even with fthrow -> RAR -> bair.

Dancing blade is easier to connect, so far. Once again, human input not accounted for.

Dair seems "easier" to spike with.

 

[Illuminado]

I only got to play test him a little in training mode and nothing felt overly different. No damage changes as far as I could see. I'm basically holding out for shield pushback changes, as I think that would probably improve his game the best out of anything (except obviously just ripping out a load of ending lag). As it is however, with the nerfs to the top tier of characters I feel like I can do a lot better against them even pending no changes at all.

 

[Radirgy]

One things for sure, A+B to smash should help with tippers. I didn't like using c-stick for tilts but I'm willing to change my control scheme now.

 

[Jaax]

Doesn't look like Marth's range was buffed. Maybe just his hitboxes?
The link below is a collage I put together of screenshots of Marth doing a fair in the previous patch and the new one. Photos came from the Clash Tournaments Mewtwo and Patch review stream.
http://gyazo.com/446ee545ca9494011f6d98b933807d4b

 

[Xisin]

sheik greninja and spacies are comboable by red dancing blades at low %, seems they made the 3rd or the 4th swing on db red better.

 

[LoreLes]

sheik greninja and spacies are comboable by red dancing blades at low %, seems they made the 3rd or the 4th swing on db red better.

Happy about this as I was testing this as well.

Edit: Going to say I feel like his jump come also comes out faster.

 

[Illuminado]

Happy about this as I was testing this as well.

Thats great. DB is one of the fastest highest damage punishes Marth has. Any buff to its reliability is great .

 

[Crawfish]

dthrow up air combos SOME characters better. will confirm later

no i lied. dthrow does NOT combo any better. i'm 90% sure

 

[Freelance Spy]

Seems faster. Less lag on shield hits?

I dunno, the changes seem small if any. Does feel faster to me though. Up air seems different. Forward air comes out faster but still has lag.

 

[Locuan]

Hey @ Illuminado . Question, will you be updating the first post?

 

[Quickhero]

D-air got noticeably less landing lag, Shaya and Zurai seem to agree with this so I don't think it's just placebo.

 

[Illuminado]

Hey @ Illuminado . Question, will you be updating the first post?

If you give me a little time I can collate the data we collect and confirm. I'm sitting here reading all of the stuff on the main patch post and I'll be happy to set this up as a proper Marth change resource collection. Unfortunately, I'm at work currently so I won't be able to properly get to it until a bit later this evening. If people keep posting thoughts here I'll definitely get on it at about 7pm or so GMT.
Quite a lot of the things I'm reading I want to confirm for myself at home so I can be sure they're correct before editing the first post. If enough of us reach a consensus though that should also be fine. Would be a great help to have a concise list for everyone to quickly access.

 

[LoreLes]

Dair does have less landing lag although it's still not safe enough to really use when landing. Thought it does help that it got anything at all.

 

[Locuan]

If you give me a little time I can collate the data we collect and confirm. I'm sitting here reading all of the stuff on the main patch post and I'll be happy to set this up as a proper Marth change resource collection. Unfortunately, I'm at work currently so I won't be able to properly get to it until a bit later this evening. If people keep posting thoughts here I'll definitely get on it at about 7pm or so GMT.
Quite a lot of the things I'm reading I want to confirm for myself at home so I can be sure they're correct before editing the first post. If enough of us reach a consensus though that should also be fine. Would be a great help to have a concise list for everyone to quickly access.

Alright no problem, take the time you need. Just asking to make sure.

 

[PurpleYessir]

Curious about the frame data. I'm hearing a lot of different things. He feels somewhat faster and possible longer range on fair, but it could also be placebo effect.

 

[LoreLes]

Going to agree with the Slash special effects looks really weird right now, almost similar to Lucina's on some stages. Also just tested side by side with my smash 3ds which hasn't been patched yet and all of Marth's landing lag is exactly the same, including Dair.

 

[Jaax]

Going to agree with the Slash special effects looks really weird right now, almost similar to Lucina's on some stages. Also just tested side by side with my smash 3ds which hasn't been patched yet and all of Marth's landing lag is exactly the same, including Dair.

I'm pretty sure he's the exact same but maybe with some improved hitboxes. I doubt it's the placebo effect

 

[LoreLes]

If anything Fair feels like it's hitting in places it should be, specifically the lower and upper portions.

 

[Hahex]

I thought D-throw to u-air combod better , but it seems the training counter on pre-patch version still counts a lot of them as true combos anyway. So even though it says I'm comboing Lucina from 50-60%, it does the same on the 3DS version.

D-air feels the same to me, although there's some talk of cancelling lag with a buffered attack?

Dancing Blade definitely combos better at lower percentages. Pre-patch, only the first 3 hits register as combos but now the four hits register for much longer. Definitely seems easier to get the fourth hit out as well, although that could also be down to a difference in controls from 3DS to Wii U.

 

[Jaax]

If anything Fair feels like it's hitting in places it should be, specifically the lower and upper portions.

Yeah it seems like a bigger arc

 

[Zethoro]

Lucina's SB buff made me check; No tipper Marth SB now deals a whopping 22%. Tipper is unchanged in damage.

 

[Radirgy]

Sword Dance Actually connects on the last hit now when going forwards which means it is now usable.

 

[Nike.]

I think you guys are right about him being faster. His dash has definitely changed. His dash dancing seems slightly easier to do now. And it's weird for me to pinpoint it, but his aerial movement seems more fluid, like he doesn't have rocks tied to his feet anymore. Idk.

 

[Vipermoon]

Lucina's SB buff made me check; No tipper Marth SB now deals a whopping 22%. Tipper is unchanged in damage.

It always did 22

 

[Zethoro]

It always did 22

Oh. I thought it did 19 before.

 

[Langston777]

You'd think Sakurai would at least give us more than 4% off our throws

I'm not really feeling any differences. Maybe that'll change once i actually play some sets but as for now i'd say nothing's changed. i think there's a lot of placebo effect going on with you guys (but i would happily be proven wrong)

 

[Vipermoon]

Oh. I thought it did 19 before.

Shield Breaker (ground charged)
Frame 8- 9: 24%(+50) 60b/100g (KO@ 41%) 361° 1.6-Hitlag Pierce
Frame 8- 9: 22%(+50) 30b/90g (KO@ 76%) 361° Pierce
Max Damage: 24%

 

[LyonDRC]

To be honest he feels the same to me, maybe better hitboxes? D-air feels easier to spike.

 

[Not_Indigo]

You'd think Sakurai would at least give us more than 4% off our throws

I'm not really feeling any differences. Maybe that'll change once i actually play some sets but as for now i'd say nothing's changed. i think there's a lot of placebo effect going on with you guys (but i would happily be proven wrong)

I agree. There are some things that I'm thinking got changed, but until I see frame data, I'm going to be skeptical his changes. I do feel like his aerial movement has changed for the better, but I don't know for sure since I don't have a capture card to get the exact frames on everything.

Dair seems like it did get less landing lag, too, but I don't have a pre-patch version to go off of. Is it a confirmed change?

 

[Vipermoon]

Dair already had less landing lag than previous games. I saw a marth do a dair on a stream recently and it looks the same. I wish I wasnt out of state so i can actually try things out.

 

[Langston777]

im assuming you people are dairing in training mode. try it on an actual opponent and it doesn't feel much different. the land lag on it is still atrocious so i'm not sure why you think it's better now.

 

[Vipermoon]

Someone please tell me if Fair has a larger autocancel window (used to be almost non-existent) and if Nair autocancels in a short hop. Also, does Fair to Fair or Fair to Uair work in a short hop? If you need to be frame perfect slow down the time in training