Marth 1.1.0 Patch Changes

[Solutionme]

I mean, you lose to Sheik, ZSS and Diddy.

Thats not a good look, you feel me dawg?

I don't agree about diddy, sheik feels 50/50 to me now, mostly because of how good jab is. But ZSS just kicks our butts hard. I've been getting some easy f-smash tippers with utilt, it's pretty fun. But I haven't found ti any easier to get f-smash tippers that kill, so maybe?

 

[Gemba Board]

So does the DB input change mean that in situations where I could DB2, 3, or 4, I could just jab instead with the exact same timing? If so, that's incredible. You could DB1 and confirm multiple reactions and then move into the appropriate option. These 5 frames could trap a shield grab, a spot dodge, oos options, etc. Good buff!

 

[Solutionme]

So does the DB input change mean that in situations where I could DB2, 3, or 4, I could just jab instead with the exact same timing? If so, that's incredible. You could DB1 and confirm multiple reactions and then move into the appropriate option. These 5 frames could trap a shield grab, a spot dodge, oos options, etc. Good buff!

Something like that yeah, you can keep up the DB longer but still use an A attack the same time you used to pre-patch, which considering how safe jab is, is amazing. It really differentiates Marth from Roy even more.

 

[ksizl4life]

Hey guys, ksizzle of VitaminZK here. We've created a patch notes video for Marth(and Lucina) so we hope you enjoy! if you know theres something we missed, please let me know and I'll add some parts to a miscellaneous video we'll make at the end of the series! Thanks!

 

[Roy of Pharae]

Marth feels like he got a range buff and that his tippers seem easier to hit compared to 1.9

 

[Vipermoon]

Then it looks like you are getting better at spacing and using your opponents' hurtboxes against them because none of that changed.

 

[Admiral_Dante]

Then it looks like you are getting better at spacing and using your opponents' hurtboxes against them because none of that changed.

Just to be sure, can anyone confirm that none of Marth's animations have been subtly changed?

I saw in another thread that Metaknight's animations were changed in this patch to better match his sword hitboxes, and I know they changed other animations in the game. So now i'm wondering if it's possible that Marth was given any love in that regard...

 

[Roy of Pharae]

it feels that way when I played. the sword trail seems different on some of the animations

 

[Solutionme]

I haven't noticed anything different, perhaps it is because you guys are noticing the lower ending lag on most moves?

 

[Vipermoon]

They're all the same.

 

[Emblem Lord]

YAY for everyone leveling up and not sucking with Marth.

Now you people can stop begging for a range buff that will NEVER happen

 

[SilverForUbers]

YAY for everyone leveling up and not sucking with Marth.

Now you people can stop begging for a range buff that will NEVER happen

It's a shame they didn't increase his grab range. His sword range is perfectly fine. I just want grab range.

 

[Vipermoon]

It's a shame they didn't increase his grab range. His sword range is perfectly fine. I just want grab range.

Everyone has less grab range in this game. Marth's is still among the best of all non-tethers. I'm sick of always telling people this. His grab range was NOT specifically targeted for a huge nerf. I even compared Brawl and Smash 4 grab range and they aren't that different.

 

[SilverForUbers]

Everyone has less grab range in this game. Marth's is still among the best of all non-tethers. I'm sick of always telling people this. His grab range was NOT specifically targeted for a huge nerf. I even compared Brawl and Smash 4 grab range and they aren't that different.

Yes his grab range is fine. But they removed something that made Marth special in Melee. I just want to see his range buffed a bit so that he becomes more like the character he once was.

Even though they're barely similar now

 

[Solutionme]

Yes his grab range is fine. But they removed something that made Marth special in Melee. I just want to see his range buffed a bit so that he becomes more like the character he once was.

Even though they're barely similar now

This isn't melee though. Not that I mean anything bad by it anyways. But we are pretty much here right now. Marth has been buffed enough where he is good enough imo to be tournament viable. His fair still sucks yes, but his dair and other aerials are kicking butt. His shield breaker can actually break shields well, and considering how oft used shields are, shouldn't be too hard to catch someone by surprise. His DB got buffed this patch, which means better mindgames. The last thing we really need i melee marth in an environment where pretty much every veteran except a select few have become complete garbage in comparison to their melee counterpart. I've also lately appreciated seeing less and less brain dead fair-fair-fair combos.

Edit: Corrected casual cursing.

 

[Viewtiful Rain]

I don't really understand Marth's buffs. I mean I know less landing lag is a good thing but that's about it. Anyone want to explain to me, I do play Marth but I want to understand how everything plays out with this patch

 

[Solutionme]

I don't really understand Marth's buffs. I mean I know less landing lag is a good thing but that's about it. Anyone want to explain to me, I do play Marth but I want to understand how everything plays out with this patch

He is actually able to combo more than 2 moves now, and his moves are safer on shield like they're supposed to be. He is also able to put more pressure and get f-smash tippers more consistently. His u-air and u-tilt buffs are pretty much a buffed juggling game, which was appropriate.

TL;DR being above him and shielding against him is a stupid idea. If you don't have projectiles he can zone you out and camp even easier than before.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yes his grab range is fine. But they removed something that made Marth special in Melee. I just want to see his range buffed a bit so that he becomes more like the character he once was.

Even though they're barely similar now

Ok here is the thing.

Melee came out in 2001.

It's 2015 now.

Ok so one thing bet you feel old now.

Second thing. Let Melee go. This is the Smash 4 Marth forums. Melee Marth forums still exist and it still has a scene so if you desire Melee Marth there is nothing stopping you.

Again, if you are here then BE here. Let the past be the past.

 

[Admiral_Dante]

I don't really understand Marth's buffs. I mean I know less landing lag is a good thing but that's about it. Anyone want to explain to me, I do play Marth but I want to understand how everything plays out with this patch

What's not to get? He got reduced landing lag on his aerials meaning that some he'll get punished less often and/or less heavily in most situations. Imo the fair frames are the most vital, because it should be much easier to land a spaced fair on a shield and not get punished. It was already a tight before.

I guess there are also new combo opportunities, or at least combos that are more easily done. Such as falling fair into another fair, or ff dair into utilt/usmash. But i haven't seen anything major yet.

So if you were wondering if Marth was a completely new beast with game changing tech and revived to reign on the top of the tier list as he deserves to be, then no. Sadly. A great patch for sure, but for the most part it only normalizes some of Marth's risk/reward.

 

[Solutionme]

What's not to get? He got reduced landing lag on his aerials meaning that some he'll get punished less often and/or less heavily in most situations. Imo the fair frames are the most vital, because it should be much easier to land a spaced fair on a shield and not get punished. It was already a tight before.

I guess there are also new combo opportunities, or at least combos that are more easily done. Such as falling fair into another fair, or ff dair into utilt/usmash. But i haven't seen anything major yet.

So if you were wondering if Marth was a completely new beast with game changing tech and revived to reign on the top of the tier list as he deserves to be, then no. Sadly. A great patch for sure, but for the most part it only normalizes some of Marth's risk/reward.

Really? Imo I thought he'd be viable at this point, maybe it is the lack of a good throw?

 

[Admiral_Dante]

I never said he wasn't viable. I'm just letting people know not to expect the "Grand Return of the Hero-King part III" or anything like that. Marth can win tournaments. Whether or not he can do it consistently is another question. Maybe if Zero picked him up...

 

[Solutionme]

I never said he wasn't viable. I'm just letting people know not to expect the "Grand Return of the Hero-King part III" or anything like that. Marth can win tournaments. Whether or not he can do it consistently is another question. Maybe if Zero picked him up...

Fair enough. Regarding Zero I'd rather not see him pick up Marth. Should be someone else, could be me, you, EmblemLord if he ever comes back form #RyuNation, Mad-Dawg, Leo, idk really.

 

[CommanderRin]

EmblemLord if he ever comes back form #RyuNation

@ Emblem Lord is on a long journey to become the strongest. There's no return from that path he chose.

 

[Xelion]

Should be someone else, could be me, you, EmblemLord if he ever comes back form #RyuNation, Mad-Dawg, Leo, idk really.

Wait... Mad-Dawg... You can't mean THAT Mad-Dawg can you? The "best player" in the world?

 

[Solutionme]

@ Emblem Lord is on a long journey to become the strongest. There's no return from that path he chose.

Then I shall become the best Marth player of Smash 4! As soon as I'm able to drive on my own... =(

Wait... Mad-Dawg... You can't mean THAT Mad-Dawg can you? The "best player" in the world?

Yes that one. Leo is to Zero as Mad-Dawd is to Alpha.

 

[HFlash]

It's a shame they didn't increase his grab range. His sword range is perfectly fine. I just want grab range.

Doesn't really matter whether you think the range is good enough or not as his throws are pretty sub par compared to his other iterations. With the new buffs though, I think Marth can easily place at the very least mid-tier now.

Thank you based Sakurai.

 

[SilverForUbers]

Ok here is the thing.

Melee came out in 2001.

It's 2015 now.

Ok so one thing bet you feel old now.

Second thing. Let Melee go. This is the Smash 4 Marth forums. Melee Marth forums still exist and it still has a scene so if you desire Melee Marth there is nothing stopping you.

Again, if you are here then BE here. Let the past be the past.

Oh well. It's what I want. Know it probably won't happen but I can hope.

 

[Solutionme]

Well if people have payed any attention to Sakurai's design as of late, he doesn't want characters to solely rely on the use of one move, not even Sheik completely relies on Fair to combo or kill, though she is the biggest culprit. He is designing the characters so there is more thinking put into using them. Diddy got nerfed hard for that reason, and sooner or later he is going to make up for it the same way he did Marth. Roy doesn't even do Melee Marth stuff, or rather it isn't a guranteed thing, so there you go. The reason why I mention that is because I feel like some people could argue with what I say using Roy, but the fact is Roy isn't even that brain dead either.

 

[Shaya]

So maybe it isn't much of anything, but I think those increase input windows might help with the comboing of the move.
"waiting" for the opponent to fall into place for a subsequent hit, essentially. There's enough hit stun to make subsequent hits combo, but they may just go slightly too far away and timing it so they don't jump out (air dodging is fine, they die for that) was tricky.

Now... not so much.
And the whole "8 frames between inaction" from FIFTEEN FRAMES is playing out because of it as well. "Waiting to see what they do".
I didn't think it would be this noticeable in non-"I ****ed up by hitting a shield/whiffing" scenarios, but yeah, hitting people and waiting feels amazing.

 

[Roy of Pharae]

When does Marth's F-air kill with rage? my opponent was sonic and I hit him with tippered F-air from center stage. this was the 3ds version by the way.

 

[Darklink401]

Yes his grab range is fine. But they removed something that made Marth special in Melee. I just want to see his range buffed a bit so that he becomes more like the character he once was.

Even though they're barely similar now

They took his melee grab and gave it to Palutena

 

[Vipermoon]

Palutena has a lot of end lag on her grabs. And even then I bet Marth still has better grab range.

 

[Darklink401]

Palutena has a lot of end lag on her grabs. And even then I bet Marth still has better grab range.

Funny you mention that, because her grab endlag got reduced this patch (standing, running and pivot) XP

However, Marth's is still faster, and his grab range is...either the same as hers, or sliiightly less far

That being said, his grab range is still great and I don't see why people would dislike it xD

 

[SilverForUbers]

Funny you mention that, because her grab endlag got reduced this patch (standing, running and pivot) XP

However, Marth's is still faster, and his grab range is...either the same as hers, or sliiightly less far

That being said, his grab range is still great and I don't see why people would dislike it xD

I'm fine with it. I just want it better because I'm greedy. (ʖ ͜° ͜ʖ)

 

[Solutionme]

Want some input on this, but is Roy's fair still than better than Marth's overall with this patch?

Also I feel that ending frame reduction on shield breaker is pretty useless. Would have been interesting if they changed the move so it has a quicker start-up in exchange for more endlag, but not too quick on the start-up that it makes Marth become the first truly broken character in this game.

 

[Darklink401]

Want some input on this, but is Roy's fair still than better than Marth's overall with this patch?

Also I feel that ending frame reduction on shield breaker is pretty useless. Would have been interesting if they changed the move so it has a quicker start-up in exchange for more endlag, but not too quick on the start-up that it makes Marth become the first truly broken character in this game.

He wouldn't be broken
Everyone else would be

SHIELDBROK- I'm sorry.


XD

Also I feel Marth's fair is better anyways XP since he uses it well for spacing. Roy's is nice, and good for followups, but it's not as multi-use as Marth's xP

^ my 2 cents

 

[Solutionme]

He wouldn't be broken
Everyone else would be

SHIELDBROK- I'm sorry.


XD

Also I feel Marth's fair is better anyways XP since he uses it well for spacing. Roy's is nice, and good for followups, but it's not as multi-use as Marth's xP

^ my 2 cents

Not wrong about the spacing, though it is disappointing that even with this patch Marth is 1 frame slower on landing lag, though that would help for balancing.

 

[Vipermoon]

Marth's Fair is WAY better than Roy's. Now if Roy's Fair was ON Marth you could argue that it would be better for Marth. Even then, probably not by much.

Roy's Fair has less KB growth but more base KB and more damage. It has much slower start-up and it doesn't cover below him very well. However, Roy's Fair has very little end lag and covers above him better. Their horizontal range is about the same. Roy does edge Marth out in landing lag (by 1 frame) and autocancel (by 3 frames). But Roy's fall speed and jumps makes the autocancel and landing lag on his Fair seem a lot worse.

 

[Solutionme]

But it helps avoid Roy getting punished if he hits with a spaced Fair then? The landing lag I mean.

 

[Vipermoon]

Roy is punished harder than Marth when landing with Fair because of spacing and especially with how fast and unreachable Marth's is.