Marth 1.1.0 Patch Changes

[Gawain]

I don't agree about diddy, sheik feels 50/50 to me now, mostly because of how good jab is. But ZSS just kicks our butts hard. I've been getting some easy f-smash tippers with utilt, it's pretty fun. But I haven't found ti any easier to get f-smash tippers that kill, so maybe?

Well, I DEFINITELY don't think Sheik is 50/50 at all, but I want to comment that I think that it's actually much better than people think it is. You can get a guaranteed kill out of Jab 1 past 100 percent with Dolphin Slash as a true combo, pretty much anytime. You can also combo into dancing blade finishes and other moves. Jab 1 is great for keeping sheik out too, it really is a key move in the matchup.

Marth's Fair is WAY better than Roy's. Now if Roy's Fair was ON Marth you could argue that it would be better for Marth. Even then, probably not by much.

Roy's Fair has less KB growth but more base KB and more damage. It has much slower start-up and it doesn't cover below him very well. However, Roy's Fair has very little end lag and covers above him better. Their horizontal range is about the same. Roy does edge Marth out in landing lag (by 1 frame) and autocancel (by 3 frames). But Roy's fall speed and jumps makes the autocancel and landing lag on his Fair seem a lot worse.

I don't know if I'd agree that Marth's fair is better, you just use it differently. Roy doesn't use fair in neutral at all. Marth uses it in neutral all the time. Roy gets way more out of a fair hit than Marth does most of the time. For Roy, it's more combo meat than anything. You can do stuff like jab/dthrow/nair whatever into double fair or fair ----> blazer, all of which are true combos.

Roy's shorthop fair has IASA frames RIGHT before he lands, so you can do specials or jump back to dodge if you miss or something. They're very different moves, I wouldn't even compare them to be honest.

The Marth/Roy debate I think that might actually be interesting would be comparing their jabs. With Marth's better jab from the last patch I think it's kind of a tossup. They can both use them in neutral. They both get pretty good followups out of them, including kills. It's a tough call.

 

[Emblem Lord]

There is no reason to compare two characters with different gameplans.

 

[Gawain]

There is no reason to compare two characters with different gameplans.

While I more or less agree, I think that there is some benefit to comparing characters, even with different strategies. A comparison is really just a backdrop to elaborate on a set of moves to go into more depth on them.