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Mario Mafia/Newbie 10! Game Over! Scum Wins!

#HBC | Acrostic

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Day 1 started in Post #79 - Vote Count in #181: Some votes may have been missed even though I tried to be careful while compiling this list. The bolded areas are the pertinent regions I have been discussing about.

Grump voted for Ubermario #81.
Sephiroth voted for Grump #84.
Vanderzant voted for Ranmaru #89.
Vanderzant voted for Terrywj #93
Grump voted for Terrywj #97
Ranmaru voted for Vanderzant #106
Sephiroth voted for Terrywj #110
Terrywj votes no lynch #113
Vanderzant voted for Ranmaru #126
Ranmaru voted for Acrostic #139
Grump unvotes #146
Sephiroth votes for Vanderzant #166
Vanderzant votes for Sephiroth #169
Grump votes for Vanderzant #171
Ranmaru votes no lynch #172
Ranmaru votes uber #176
Ubermario votes no lynch #179
 

Terywj [태리]

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There's also no life for me out there since I lack a lot of homework today. Do you see my post count, Glyph? I already spend too much time on Smashboards as is.
 

#HBC | Acrostic

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I also looked at the list in this manner.

Grump voted for Ubermario #81.
Sephiroth voted for Grump #84.
Vanderzant voted for Ranmaru #89.
Vanderzant voted for Terrywj #93
Grump voted for Terrywj #97
Ranmaru voted for Vanderzant #106
Sephiroth voted for Terrywj #110
Terrywj votes no lynch #113
Vanderzant voted for Ranmaru #126
Ranmaru voted for Acrostic #139
Grump unvotes #146
Sephiroth votes for Vanderzant #166
Vanderzant votes for Sephiroth #169
Grump votes for Vanderzant #171
Ranmaru votes no lynch #172
Ranmaru votes uber #176
Ubermario votes no lynch #179
 

#HBC | Acrostic

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[FoS]Sephiroths Masamune

Pushing Terrywj to three votes was unnecessary. In addition you never provided a viable reason as to why Terry should receive a vote, much less a tipping point vote and simply agreed with what Grump stated. Interestingly for his first game, Grump was criticizing Terry and stated that his post was potentially WIFOM. For someone who is playing the game for the first time, I would never expect to see a newbie offering criticism to how another person has decided to play the game. I also don't know why you would simply consent to what he said if you were trying to participate in an educative capacity, rather than attempt to challenge the points he made. After all, you've already played a game of mafia and should understand that not everyone obeys to the rules of mafiascum. I agree that voting for users is a strategy, but with two votes on Terry, adding another vote is nothing more than a demotivator for him to participate further and encourages a lynch on a potential townie without giving him the chance to properly participate.
 

ranmaru

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He and Tery gave a reason in the last page, I suggest you read it. : ]
 

Sephiroths Masamune

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@Ranmaru: I didn't vote Tery for voteing No Lynch. Or else I would have voted you and
Uber.

@Acrostic: If your going to FOS me for putting pressure on player and simply playing the game then go ahead.
 

DtJ Glyphmoney

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There's little to no pressure with an FOS this early in the game.
You misunderstand me, I didn't mean that the FOS would cause the pressure. I meant I'd be watching his posts more closely than I would have been otherwise.

There's also no life for me out there since I lack a lot of homework today. Do you see my post count, Glyph? I already spend too much time on Smashboards as is.
This is a game of calculation and manipulation, making moves based off "I was bored" isn't a very strong defense. Everything anyone does in this game has to be looked at and taken apart to try and determine the reasoning of the poster.

In this post's case, it seems to me like you're deflecting my accusation with a defense that really doesn't make sense to me. Why call more attention to yourself by answering a question that wasn't directed at you? Were you hoping it would make you look more like a town player?

Its like you said, if we lynch you, we're only hurting ourselves. I'm afraid that argument doesn't do it for me though.

VOTE: Terywj
 

Terywj [태리]

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Sephiroths, you voting for me to try and get information clearly hasn't been working, since I already stated that I am a townie.

This is a game of calculation and manipulation, making moves based off "I was bored" isn't a very strong defense. Everything anyone does in this game has to be looked at and taken apart to try and determine the reasoning of the poster.

In this post's case, it seems to me like you're deflecting my accusation with a defense that really doesn't make sense to me. Why call more attention to yourself by answering a question that wasn't directed at you? Were you hoping it would make you look more like a town player?
Read your previous post, Glyph.

Like how that question wasn't even close to being directed at you, or even all that incriminating. And yet you still rushed in and answered the question. Could just be you being helpful, could just be you being scum.

I'm staying with my FOS until I see something a bit more concrete, but until then I do plan to keep the pressure on you.
My reponse states that I have no life. Therefore I am on Smashboards a lot, reviewing threads I am subscribed to, etc. etc. "Rushing in" and "making move" have no application to my response to Acrostic's question and seems like poor judgement on your part. Just because I'm a new player means I cannot answer someone's question? If I recall correctly, that shouldn't be the case.
 

X1-12

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D1 Votecount!


Vanderzant (2) Seph, Grump
Seph (1) Vanderzant
Terywj (1) Glyph
No Lynch (2) Terywj, UberMario,

Not voting (3) Acrostic, Meta-Kirby, Ranmaru

With 9 alive it takes 5 to Lynch!

Deadline is 17th Dec

 

#HBC | Acrostic

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@Acrostic: If your going to FOS me for putting pressure on player and simply playing the game then go ahead.
I was hoping that I would receive an explanation after I made my assessment. You recognized that you put Terrywj at three votes. I don't believe that you were trying to pressure him but were honestly hoping for a lynch. If you were more concerned you should have changed your vote after he finished posting. From what I have written, you never bothered to change your vote within a 50 post span. Compare this to your Grump change post behavior which only was a bit over 20 post span. I don't believe your statement and was hoping that you would give me a serious response. Too bad.

[Vote]Sephiroths Masamune
 

ranmaru

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I never said you voted Tery for voting No lynch. I do know that isn't grounds for lynching, lol lynching because you said no lynch...

So, I can see the two people that are in danger of voting are Tery, and Vanny. What do you guys think of this?
 

Sephiroths Masamune

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I was hoping that I would receive an explanation after I made my assessment. You recognized that you put Terrywj at three votes. I don't believe that you were trying to pressure him but were honestly hoping for a lynch. If you were more concerned you should have changed your vote after he finished posting. From what I have written, you never bothered to change your vote within a 50 post span. Compare this to your Grump change post behavior which only was a bit over 20 post span. I don't believe your statement and was hoping that you would give me a serious response. Too bad.

[Vote]Sephiroths Masamune
You do realise that not everyone is on all day and night. That would explain why I didn't change my vote untill then.

Lol, I can't think of any game where scum lynched town in the first few days of Day 1. I've never seen anyone try it before either. Your "Quick Lynch" theory has quite a few holes in it.
 

ranmaru

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Should one base their vote on how long the person took to change their vote? Are you checking other people's vote changing votes quickly or took a long time?

I think one should consider their vote long and hard, and not judge quickly.

What do you think Acrostic?
 

#HBC | Acrostic

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You do realise that not everyone is on all day and night. That would explain why I didn't change my vote untill then. Lol, I can't think of any game where scum lynched town in the first few days of Day 1. I've never seen anyone try it before either. Your "Quick Lynch" theory has quite a few holes in it.
I never stated that my idea was perfect. I believe that it is a start. At the moment I believe that you are a more viable lynch candidate then vanderzant and that my rationale holds more weight for a justified lynch on Day One. If I am wrong then I will revise my theory from scratch and go back to the drawing board from Page 1. I will not always be able to vote on rational precedent and that there is not always a reason behind lynching the right suspects. But I do not feel that vanderzant is a lynch suspect due to the fact that he withdrew from the tipping point vote early on. For the same reason I suspect you to be a more viable member of the mafia as well as the cues I took from your early on. Again I'm not stating that you are 100% mafia. But you right now seem to be the best pick at the moment.
 

vanderzant

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1 thing before I respond

NO ONE VOTE FOR A NO LYNCH.

A no lynch is literally the worst thing you can ask for on Day 1. The lynch is Town's number 1 and most important method of generating information. For example, in the recently completed dGames Mafia town failed to lynch on both Day's 1 and Day 2, and never managed to lynch scum. Not once!

I can understand that this is a newbie game... but you don't have to be voting someone, so if you don't want to vote someone simply "unvote" as opposed to voting for a "no lynch."

It's ok, but if 5 people were to of voted for a no lynch the day would of ended without a lynch.


Obviously I won't try and use this as scummy... but No Lynch is almost NEVER a option (unless it holds a strategic purpose near endgame, which I'll explain if we are ever in that situation.
 

ranmaru

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When I voted No Lynch, I actually thought it was the same thing as just not voting.
 

ranmaru

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Btw, let us be careful. So Seph may have been a little aggressive, so was Van.

I think Acrostic might be trying to tip over something himself.

I am wary of you.
 

vanderzant

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On a real note if Tery flipped scum (assuming he was lynched, of course), I would feel slightly leery of you (for trying to draw attention off of him twice, as quoted above). If YOU flipped scum though, I really wouldn't have any reads. Nobody has stood up to defend you yet that I've noticed.
Interesting that if Tery flips mafia then I am suspicious, but not the other way around? Also why would I not do this as town?

Additionally, I'd like to question this:

"I'm not quite sure yet. He DOES defend Tery to some degree
Post #118 "Though, we shouldn't mull over this any more. Honestly, if you don't like it then replace out . Playing games should be enjoyable and not a chore."

How is telling Tery to replace out if he isn't going to enjoy the game defending him?

"and most recently #123 "^ No more dicussing this though. We should be scum hunting and this is not scum hunting :D""

Of course I would say that! We were discussing Tery's approach to the game in a manner that wasn't related to finding scum. Would you of preferred another page Tery/Vand back and forth of me telling Tery how he should play mafia?

Interestingly enough, if I were scum buddies with Tery, why would I be "coaching" him in thread as opposed to communicating with him privately? (Somewhat WIFOM, but food for thought nonetheless).

If Terry is town, then I'm pretty sure that Ubermario is town as well. He's [Ubermario] done some light prodding that COULD be interpreted as scum-to-scum buddying, but he hasn't tried to pinpoint any blame like a scum would to a townie. I'd need to watch the two more closely though to get anything concrete.

Also, what was with that little spazz attack? o.O You just got a huge bump up the scummy chart.

Vote: Vanderzant
What do you mean by light prodding? Had UberMario even posted anything at this stage? And where do you get scum-to-scum buddying from? Use quotes please.

Also, am I not justified in voting Seph? Interesting that instead of questioning my reasoning for voting him, you jump straight to voting me. Dislike.

@All: Do you think Grump is legitamtely suspect of me? Or do you think he may be defending Seph with his vote on me?? Do tell!

But.... why does Vanny want Glyph to vote instead of using finger of suspicion? Can Acrostic and Grump be right?

I see Van is quick to vote Sephy now, for simply the same reason I did.

I'm not voting anyone yet.
For several reasons, 1. a vote is the only "real" thing you can do in mafia. I.e. irrelevant of the things people say, at the end of the day mafia comes down to lynching people with votes. So a vote means a lot more to me then a FoS (which is basically a weak vote with little commitment)

Additionally, by voting you leave a "paper trail" so to speak of your thoughts and actions, which is useful for town to analyse as the game progresses. So I was encouraging Glyph to vote, because it would mean he is taking a harder stance, and more clearly showing his actions.

I'm not quite sure. I thought that harassing Terry was to simply get him involved. Then again his vote went all the way up to three votes which means that if two more people voted, then he would have gotten lynched. Especially if those two people were both mafia members. I think that the most important thing to consider is to see who was the one who put Terry at a three vote discrepancy in RVS and who was the one who removed Terry from the tipping point.

I don't believe that we can judge Terry at the moment because he's still getting acclimated to the game and has his own play style. He even stated this in the Super Mario thread that the mafia we play in Decisive Games is of different nature than the one he played in the past. I speculate that he plays a similar style mafia game to the one I first played which had quick day actions (24 hours) and consequently rapid cross-fire with little to no post analysis. If Terry flipped scum then I'm not sure who I would suspect as he doesn't seem to have made any other posts than the ones about himself. If Terry flipped town then I would be suspicious of Sephiroth who pushed Terry to the tipping point.
I agree 100%.

Was this supposed to be an OMGUS vote to make all of town on you, or is this really your stance? I have a hard time believing it is.

My vote stays.
You better believe it Seph.

Did you not read my summary of your play thus far in the game? And you voted me for skimming (when I actually wasn't) so you were either 1. placing a RVS vote on me (when RVS was well over by this stage) or 2. taking an opportunistic shot at me with whatever reasoning you could find.

What exactly did I do to deserve that? lol

And Vanderzant seems pretty suspicious, I'm going to:

Vote: No Lynch

But, I'm going to keep an eye on him. The way he types seems . . . . different.
Why am I suspicous? You have to do better than that :p. I'm interested to here your reasoning. Tell tell tell!

And ironically you did basically nothing, which earned you ran's vote at the time.

Again, the Seph wagon is where it's at!

And I'll probably be ninja'd a million times, but I want to rage at J for replacing out, but warmly welcome our new IC meta-kirby :D.
 

ranmaru

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Interesting, Tery says that he is a townie. But, could he be lying? Not that Scum would go for that, but it may be that way. (why would you think that someone who said they are a townie outright may not be a scum?)
 

Terywj [태리]

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Food for thought - if ____ player is Mafioso, then would it make sense for them to immediately target the experienced players Vanderzant and Meta-Kirby? Of course this wouldn't be shown in the daily lynch, but killing them as early as possible provides a sense of security as the town is now left without experienced players or IC players or whatever and are left to meddle amongst themselves, while the Mafiosos pick off the remaining players and tactically outwit and avoid the daily lynch. If indeed one of the experienced players end up dying for the results of Night 1, what suspicions have been removed from players? What new suspicions have taken their place?
 

Sephiroths Masamune

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You better believe it Seph.

Did you not read my summary of your play thus far in the game? And you voted me for skimming (when I actually wasn't) so you were either 1. placing a RVS vote on me (when RVS was well over by this stage) or 2. taking an opportunistic shot at me with whatever reasoning you could find.
My vote was simply to vote you, to see how you would respond. The skimming context was just filler.

Both reasons you state don't dismiss your OMGUS, even though you blatantly stated it out to the public with a sarcastic tone does not dismiss the fact that you made the action. Just because you called yourself on it, doesn't mean the intent isn't real.
 

#HBC | Acrostic

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Ranmaru. I simply aggregated the information that I found relevant in an honest fashion before coming up with ideas. I could have been biased when presenting this data. I could have edited out everyone else's name leaving behind only the people that I was suspicious of and thus providing bias information. But I didn't do that, I brought up the vote count so that everyone could come to their own conclusions and ideas whether they disagree or agreed with that it stands as viable material.

Ranmaru said:
Should one base their vote on how long the person took to change their vote? Are you checking other people's vote changing votes quickly or took a long time? I think one should consider their vote long and hard, and not judge quickly. What do you think Acrostic?
I thought about my vote since yesterday. I read through the thread before deciding whether or not it was a good time to present this piece of information. This is my first vote. This does not mean I will not change it. It means that I need a good explanation from Sephiroth in order to retract my current vote from him.

Ranmaru said:
Btw, let us be careful. So Seph may have been a little aggressive, so was Van. I think Acrostic might be trying to tip over something himself. I am wary of you.
I am sorry if my style of play isn't to your liking. But you are gradually retreating with this statement, "So Seph may have been a little aggressive." If I recall correctly you were insisting in your last post in caps that this was a "RANDOM" occurrence. I'm sorry that I provided information that doesn't appeal to your personal assumptions. However I am inclined to disagree and am interested in hearing a more substantial response than waging your finger at me.
 

ranmaru

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Right, of course. : ] Hehe, well I did mention it WAS in the random voting stage.

It's ok, I never said I didn't like your style of play.

Don't worry, I only said that to get a reaction.

I want to see what everyone says, is all.
 

#HBC | Acrostic

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Food for thought - if ____ player is Mafioso, then would it make sense for them to immediately target the experienced players Vanderzant and Meta-Kirby? Of course this wouldn't be shown in the daily lynch, but killing them as early as possible provides a sense of security as the town is now left without experienced players or IC players or whatever and are left to meddle amongst themselves, while the Mafiosos pick off the remaining players and tactically outwit and avoid the daily lynch. If indeed one of the experienced players end up dying for the results of Night 1, what suspicions have been removed from players? What new suspicions have taken their place?
Terywj, I think that there is a big assumption in this statement. You have assumed that Vanderzant and Meta-Kirby are town aligned players. This may not necessarily be the case. If Vanderzant and/or Meta-Kirby were mafia, then they could pose a dangerous threat. However working off of fear without bothering to deduce their alliance is not a valid assumption to make for the same reason as making an assessment for trusting them as town. Both considerations are double-edged and are characterized as an "Appeal to Authority."

1. Source A says that p is true.
2. Source A is authoritative.
3. Therefore, p is true.
 

vanderzant

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@Seph: Just because my vote was technically OMGUS, that does not make it any less valid. You ARE dismissing my vote as OMGUS, while ignoring the reasoning behind said vote. Just because you happened to vote me, doesn't mean I can't use it for evidence.

@Ran: You seem to be playing very cautiously. Do you not have any scum reads? If not, you should try generating info by other means, i.e. ask questions to players you're not sure about. e.g.

True, I guess town should try to get something done.

I unvote
Ran, what purpose does this post serve? You say town needs to get something done... and unvote in the same post? Explain.
 

vanderzant

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@Tery: Adding to what Acrostic said, that is a textbook WIFOM scenario.

"Mafia would want to get rid of IC's as quick as possible"
"Aha! But that's what scum want you to think, so they won't target IC's"
"So then mafia will kill the IC's! Because killing newbies would be the obvious move!"
...
ad infinitum
 

Terywj [태리]

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Terywj, I think that there is a big assumption in this statement. You have assumed that Vanderzant and Meta-Kirby are town aligned players. This may not necessarily be the case. If Vanderzant and/or Meta-Kirby were mafia, then they could pose a dangerous threat. However working off of fear without bothering to deduce their alliance is not a valid assumption to make for the same reason as making an assessment for trusting them as town. Both considerations are double-edged and are characterized as an "Appeal to Authority."

1. Source A says that p is true.
2. Source A is authoritative.
3. Therefore, p is true.
I'm aware of that. It's just food for thought for all the other newcomers like me.

Also, since I didn't know "Vote: No Lynch" was different than "No Vote" I guess my choice is No Vote for now.
 

vanderzant

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Also, sorry for triple post, but Ran your post about whether Mafia would say they are town is also WIFOM.

Remember, we want to avoid these sorts of WIFOM as evidence for lynching scum or clearing people as town.
 

ranmaru

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@Seph: Just because my vote was technically OMGUS, that does not make it any less valid. You ARE dismissing my vote as OMGUS, while ignoring the reasoning behind said vote. Just because you happened to vote me, doesn't mean I can't use it for evidence.

@Ran: You seem to be playing very cautiously. Do you not have any scum reads? If not, you should try generating info by other means, i.e. ask questions to players you're not sure about. e.g.



Ran, what purpose does this post serve? You say town needs to get something done... and unvote in the same post? Explain.
Well I meant I unvoted from voting for no lynches. Like you said, not voting is better than voting for no lynches. I want to make sure my vote is the right one. Don't we all?

Oh, I need to read more into this WIFOM thing. I guess it leads to nothing. I will ask more questions once I see others post (uber,meta,glyph).

Also Tery, don't you have to unvote from voting not to lynch? That's why I unvoted, actually.
 

ranmaru

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EBWOP:

Vanny already mentioned it. : ]
 
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