Mario Mafia/Newbie 10! Game Over! Scum Wins!

[vanderzant]

Wow ninja'd badly

WIFOM: Wine In Front of Me: A logical situation where there are two unequal scenarios and no real evidence to suggest either.

For example, say we play a game of rock paper scissors. Not too hard. Say each time you win, you get 1 point (draw or loss is no points).

But what if we make it interesting? Say for everytime you win with Rock, you get 3 points, Scissors 2 and Paper 1. Now what it the best option?

At first you might say rock, because the reward is great, but your opponent will likely see this and go paper, getting an easy 1 point every time you do this! But you think ahead, anticipating this and pick scissors!!!... ad infinitum

So as you can see, although some scenarios may seem more likely, there is no real evidence to suggest what your opponent will do. This is what WIFOM is.

In our situation, Tery says "Kill me and you'll lose a townie"

So Tery is clearly a townie crying out to save himself! Or is he actually scum? But would he say that as mafia? Maybe? But would he say it as town? Hmm WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM!!!

 

[ranmaru]

No, you weren't justified in voting me because I have read the rules. I always do, but you must not have read my posts. I said it was a habit, and I like to edit content in, instead of using edit to edit grammar most of the time.

I'm new to the game as well, so maybe you guys should let me get adjusted instead of voting for a silly rule like that.

Now I am not sure about Tery, but I guess he may not be defending his ground well by telling us that he doesn't matter to us, that is what he is doing, correct?

I am still thinking. We shouldn't be quick to judge, either.

Although, I do not think one should evade a vote by telling us to pity him.

 

[vanderzant]

My bad.

You saying "go ahead and vote me I'm town I'm just going to sit here anyway if I die I don't care it'll hurt you anyway" (or at least implying something like that).

Is flawed reasoning. You're saying "fine vote me" when you should be saying things like "here's why you're wrong" or "why are you thinking this way?" You should try and play like this instead of what you were originally doing.

^ No more dicussing this though. We should be scum hunting and this is not scum hunting :D

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Well. If "Here's why you're wrong." is something I should be asking, let me ask you this then, where are you right?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

There's no point in hunting since more than half the player roster is keeping silent or completely offline.

 

[vanderzant]

No, you weren't justified in voting me because I have read the rules. I always do, but you must not have read my posts. I said it was a habit, and I like to edit content in, instead of using edit to edit grammar most of the time.

I'm new to the game as well, so maybe you guys should let me get adjusted instead of voting for a silly rule like that.

Now I am not sure about Tery, but I guess he may not be defending his ground well by telling us that he doesn't matter to us, that is what he is doing, correct?

I am still thinking. We shouldn't be quick to judge, either.

Although, I do not think one should evade a vote by telling us to pity him.

What?

You said you were voting me for changing my vote. But now you say I shouldn't of voted you originally? Reeks of OMGUS to me

unvote vote: Ranmaru

Did you read my #41 on Random Vote Stage? Be honest :D

OMGUS: Oh My God You Suck. When a player votes someone else for the reason that they are already voting them.

e.g. "Why are you voting meeee!!! oh you must be scum!!!! vote: xxx"

Sometimes OMGUS votes happen naturally, and they are fine as long as there is sufficient reasoning to back up the vote.

@Tery: The point is, you should be interested in why Seph voted you out of the other 11 players in the thread, or what his motivation is, and would he do this as scum? Town? Questions like these.

You must have at least some idea on the alignment of Seph/Grump/Ranmaru/me. Try making a list of things each player has done that could be indicative of alignment. Or just think about it.

I could do an example if you wish. Name a player who's posted a couple times and I'll do it if you'd like.

Then vote someone based on a reason you find. It could be one of the mentioned players, or it could be one of the inactives for not posting.

And do you not think that there is scum between myself and the other 4 or so players who have been posting?

Give the others some time to post.

And if I can help it, the days will not last 10 days. Once we're satisfied with a lynch candidate we will act upon it. I don't believe in waiting right until the deadline before lynching.

Also, I know I'm long winded at times, but you can be just as useful to town by being succinct in your posts. It's really up to you, as long as you involve yourself.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I guess I will wait for the other players to post.

Again, I apologize for my rustiness at this.

 

[ranmaru]

What?

You said you were voting me for changing my vote. But now you say I shouldn't of voted you originally? Reeks of OMGUS to me

unvote vote: Ranmaru

Did you read my #41 on Random Vote Stage? Be honest :D

OMGUS: Oh My God You Suck. When a player votes someone else for the reason that they are already voting them.

e.g. "Why are you voting meeee!!! oh you must be scum!!!! vote: xxx"

Sometimes OMGUS votes happen naturally, and they are fine as long as there is sufficient reasoning to back up the vote.

@Tery: The point is, you should be interested in why Seph voted you out of the other 11 players in the thread, or what his motivation is, and would he do this as scum? Town? Questions like these.

You must have at least some idea on the alignment of Seph/Grump/Ranmaru/me. Try making a list of things each player has done that could be indicative of alignment. Or just think about it.

I could do an example if you wish. Name a player who's posted a couple times and I'll do it if you'd like.

Then vote someone based on a reason you find. It could be one of the mentioned players, or it could be one of the inactives for not posting.

And do you not think that there is scum between myself and the other 4 or so players who have been posting?

Give the others some time to post.

And if I can help it, the days will not last 10 days. Once we're satisfied with a lynch candidate we will act upon it. I don't believe in waiting right until the deadline before lynching.

Also, I know I'm long winded at times, but you can be just as useful to town by being succinct in your posts. It's really up to you, as long as you involve yourself.

No, I never said you shouldn't vote me at all, but you clearly didn't read my post. Clearly you are ignoring my mistakes in editing in contents in a routine I use in non-game formats.

If I'm voted, it's fine. But, I won't stand defeseless.

Yet again, I'm not voting you for voting me, but for not letting me adjust to the game. So what, I pressed edit, I did apoligize.

I'm not an experienced player, but I'm sure you are trying to take advantage of me.

I'm pretty sure it's everyone for themselves here.

Now, I may need to re-read your #41. I will get back to you with another post.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Well. If "Here's why you're wrong." is something I should be asking, let me ask you this then, where are you right?

10 quotes of a quote.

 

[ranmaru]

Right about what? Be more specific, Tery.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Why are you right when accusing me of being Mafia?

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Going to address the questions directed at me, then do a following post of any ideas/feelings I have of the comments stated thus far.

/confirming I got my role pm :D @Acrostic: I'm actually playing Chrono Trigger (ds version) for the first time as we speak! It's very good.

The game was pretty fun. I have finished playing it. I don't want to spoil anything, but my favorite part of RPG games are always the beginning. I guess I started this whole mess. I should have been more frequent during RVS and now I'm spilling conversation where it does not belong.

@Acrostic: Why'd you comment on the picture in my #41 and not the actual body of the text?

I'm fairly familiar with the material you stated in your text and I didn't really find that there were any questions to ask. You touched on all the bases and provided a nice welcome to mafia. I thought that the use of the image was interesting as VG Cats has really become mainstream in the community and I don't think he deserves that attention. I think that I could come up with funnier material, but I'm really busy keeping up with homework, projects, and taking over my brother's share of chores as he just graduated and really jumped head first into his full time job at Merck.

 

[ranmaru]

I never accused you of being Mafia, Tery. I only said that you should defend yourself more, as should I.

Also, Van, I voted you because you may have a motive, when not following rules is not likely when it comes to my personality.

But, if you were town, why would you be willing to down a fellow townie? If you were scum, it wouldn't matter any way.

My vote stays.

 

[vanderzant]

No, I never said you shouldn't vote me at all, but you clearly didn't read my post. Clearly you are ignoring my mistakes in editing in contents in a routine I use in non-game formats.

If I'm voted, it's fine. But, I won't stand defeseless.

Yet again, I'm not voting you for voting me, but for not letting me adjust to the game. So what, I pressed edit, I did apoligize.

I'm not an experienced player, but I'm sure you are trying to take advantage of me.

I'm pretty sure it's everyone for themselves here.

Now, I may need to re-read your #41. I will get back to you with another post.

Have you read #41 yet? I agree that you should defend yourself, but in no way does defending yourself entail voting me to be lynched (which I read as your intention).

Do you actually think I'm scummy or are you voting me because you don't like my vote on you? (This is my quarrel)

Keep in mind that the best way to learn things is by doing, so by pressuring you I'm actually teaching you about mafia while scum hunting.

I asked if you had read my #41 because I voted you as a RVS vote. I do not actually believe that you editing your post is indicative of my alignment. It was a way for me to start discussion . I am however interested in your response.

Also, Van, I voted you because you may have a motive, when not following rules is not likely when it comes to my personality.

But, if you were town, why would you be willing to down a fellow townie? If you were scum, it wouldn't matter any way.

But I do not know if you're town or scum at this stage? Again, this is WIFOM, because I could do either as mafia or town.

 

[vanderzant]

EBWOP (stands for edit by way of post): In mafia we use this instead of actually editing our posts.

editing your post is indicative of *your alignment

 

[ranmaru]

Hehe yes I have read your #41 twice (also when you originally posted it)

No, of course I'm not upset for you voting me for that reason, but of course, I must have discussion with you, and that, we are.

And, I voted you back simply due to the reason we ARE in RVS.

It's just RVS seems to be contradicting my reasons, haha.

But no, I do NOT know if you are town or scum. I am only posting to see reaction.

I'm not sure how you would know, but I wouldn't know either. I'm trying to find out myself.

But, since this is RVS, should one change their vote to someone inactive, merely for discussion? Although I'm not wanting to, I might have to, to continue the discussion.

 

[vanderzant]

@Acrostic: Cool, give us your thoughts of what's happened so far.

Also I meant to say this earlier, but my Bowser thing was a round about way of saying that no one should try to bread crumb or hint at the flavour in your role. While it's nice that this game has flavour, if some one is claims Mario, they are equally as likely to be scum as someone who claims shy guy no one likes.

I am not hinting that I am Mario or a Shy Guy.

Breadcrumb: The act of creating a hidden message or hint of your flavour/role/intentions, an example:

Cool story bro. Of course, I'd be more willing to trust you if you weren't so inactive this game. Please try and pick up the pace, ok?

As you may of noticed, the Capital letters in this quote spell "COP." A role which each night investigates a player and finds out their alignment.

 

[vanderzant]

Ninja'd

Hehe yes I have read your #41 twice (also when you originally posted it)

No, of course I'm not upset for you voting me for that reason, but of course, I must have discussion with you, and that, we are.

And, I voted you back simply due to the reason we ARE in RVS.

It's just RVS seems to be contradicting my reasons, haha.

But no, I do NOT know if you are town or scum. I am only posting to see reaction.

I'm not sure how you would know, but I wouldn't know either. I'm trying to find out myself.

But, since this is RVS, should one change their vote to someone inactive, merely for discussion? Although I'm not wanting to, I might have to, to continue the discussion.

This is an interesting point in mafia theory. Inactives are a problem in almost every game. But how do we deal with them? How can you "pressure" that which does not exist? If everyone votes to pressure inactives, then no active players feel any pressure and discussion can stale.

At this early point in the game, inactives should not be worried about too much. We will work with what we have and hope that our mod is vigilant with prodding and possibly replacing (and even modkilling) inactives.

If at the end of the day we are not decided on a lynch, we can lynch an inactive. But at this stage, your vote is a useful tool for finding scum, and should be used as such.

 

[ranmaru]

Ah ok, thank you. Hmmm, to make more discusion, I

unvote vote Acrostic

Simply because he has a squirl as an avatar. Squirls are evil (my girlfriend says so)

 

[Grump]

Wow, step out to practice some tournie level gaming and come back... 2+ pages o.o Much more active than my other forums.

Anyways, I'm pretty convinced at this point that Tery may not be scum AT THE MOMENT. FOS on you. I retract my vote because, even as he saw that everybody was going against him, he maintained his neutrality and avoided starting any fires. Not very scummy to me, at this point in time (though in other cases, that's a slight scum tell). The fact that she MAY have made that "no pm communication" possible "slip" enforces this point.

@Van: We also may not even know what any given role DOES. From the OP, Mario is shown to do absolutely nothing, though one would think he could be a doc (Dr. Mario role). Many roles could do this, so we are really at a slight disadvantage

Also, how do we know you aren't using your "IC" powers to mold our thinking so that we don't target you? You do a fair job of including yourself in the options for consideration, so credit is given where deserved. Just curious on your take on this?

@Ranmaru:

Ran:

But, since this is RVS, should one change their vote to someone inactive, merely for discussion? Although I'm not wanting to, I might have to, to continue the discussion.

and then you vote Acrostic, of all people. He's just active enough to garner attention, but not enough to really be called an active participant. Was this vote truly random?

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I missed a lot. From what I've seen, I think that Terry has his own play style and his own views on mafia. I am curious what type of mafia format he used to play on as he didn't specify. I think that this game is brimming with a lot of activity and I hope that J/Ubermario get more involved. Ranmaru reminds me of myself when I started my first game of mafia last week in the sense that I also advocated voting to lynch an inactive player in the hopes of: 1. getting them to participate or 2. discarding someone who couldn't provide open information in order to help town.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

@Grump: I assume that Ranmaru noticed that I was reading the thread and wanted to participate in an open conversation by grabbing my attention with a vote. I don't believe that he had any ulterior motives as he wants everyone to participate and be more active.

 

[ranmaru]

I saw him post a few posts ago, he doesn't seem that inactive to me. : ]

His post was only 8 posts before yours.

I had already voted Vanny <3 but I changed so that I could continue discussion, but you do present a point in that he could be using his experience to mold our thinking to do things that he'd want us to do.

But again, since this is RVS, I voted acrostic for a silly reason.

To draw out others, like you. : D

You say you are convinced Tery isn't scum, only because he tells us it is fine to kill him? Are you defending him?

Now, I have never accused him, but you aren't being neutral when you say he shouldn't be lynched. I am not being neutral either, but I am trying to do what I can with advice from Vanny.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

@Grump: I apologize for not having as robust a post count as the other members. However, I tend to prefer consolidation, rather than sprawling out posts when someone is not seeking a quick, direct response. Also due to the nature of being unable to edit previous posts, I tend to be a bit more cautious than usual. I apologize if my style disturbs you.

 

[ranmaru]

It's ok Acrostic. I myself have made a few editing mistakes in this thread. I do like to post quickly, since I have the ability to add content in later if I needed to.

Although I'm putting myself in the habit of not posting as fast as I would like to. (as much as I don't like this)

 

[Grump]

I saw him post a few posts ago, he doesn't seem that inactive to me. : ]

A: His post was only 8 posts before yours.

I had already voted Vanny <3 but I changed so that I could continue discussion, but you do present a point in that he could be using his experience to mold our thinking to do things that he'd want us to do.

But again, since this is RVS, I voted acrostic for a silly reason.

C: To draw out others, like you. : D

B: You say you are convinced Tery isn't scum, only because he tells us it is fine to kill him? Are you defending him?

Now, I have never accused him, but you aren't being neutral when you say he shouldn't be lynched. I am not being neutral either, but I am trying to do what I can with advice from Vanny.

I labeled a few of your points A B and C for easy referral.

To respond to point A: I know, but some people may consider him "slightly inactive" because he doesn't post much compared to the rest of the players. I just wanted to get your opinion on the matter

Point B: I say he has convinced me that he is not 100% scum quite yet. Most scum would, at this point, struggle in some way like lashing out at everybody in the whole game, or trying to divert blame to one or two people in particular. While I can't see eye-to-eye in regards to his playstyle, he seems to be somewhat genuine at the moment.

Also, since I forgot to do it my last post...

unvote

But the whole FOS thing means I DO still suspect him.

Point C: Good mindset :D

 

[Grump]

@Acrostic: It doesn't bother me at all, I'm just concerned as to how others may take it. Many people think that's a scum tell- while I'm trying to be aggressive, I'm not trying to be so in a careless manner. Don't want people accusing you when all you have been giving is a nulltell in regards to your playing style (such as, cautious with your postings).

 

[vanderzant]

@Grump: Oh wow never even checked the sample pm in the op XD

And basically, all of the stuff I write in italics I know I would say in a regular game as scum OR town, because it does not hurt my cause by doing so. I do it because I have a responsibility as an IC.

You can contest that the things I choose to post make me seem townie for "enlightening" or "helping" town, I'm just warning that I could easily spill out that stuff as scum.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

@vanderzant: Breadcrumbing seems so convoluted if I have to capitalize on the first word of every sentence. Have you ever played a game with someone who chose to do it that way? If so, that would be kind of humorous.

@Grump: If I recall correctly you told me that this was your first game of mafia. Yet you are already using in-game terms such as scum tells and other lingo in order to convey your argument.

 

[ranmaru]

A:
Ah, I see. Well, I think we should give them a chance. I saw him post twice after, so I won't change my vote yet.

I will give him the benefit of the doubt, and if he doesn't get the chance to post, I would change my vote because I probably shouldn't vote someone who is being inactive, but we shouldn't rule out people using the "silent" tactic either.

(not that it is a tactic, I wouldn't know, I'm still warming up to this game)

B:

Ah ok, but you say you are still keeping an eye on him, I think we should. But yes, he seems neutral, seems ok. I would like him to see more of he what he thinks though. He should put more into discussion instead of regretting that there might not be any. That is if he is town. : ]

C: Thank you. :D

 

[Grump]

@vanderzant: Breadcrumbing seems so convoluted if I have to capitalize on the first word of every sentence. Have you ever played a game with someone who chose to do it that way? If so, that would be kind of humorous.

@Grump: If I recall correctly you told me that this was your first game of mafia. Yet you are already using in-game terms such as scum tells and other lingo in order to convey your argument.

Anytime I start a hobby, I do some research, especially if I'm in it to win (doubly so if it's team-based). Found this nifty little spot here.
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie_Guide

And then I also did some watching in other folks' games, explored that wiki, etc. Was a VERY good read

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Grump after you did some reading, how do you feel about Vanderzant's current play style?

 

[vanderzant]

J/Ubermario get more involved.

Interesting that you fail to mention glyph, when I don't recall him posting yet

@Ran/Acrostic/Grump: what do you make of this?

 

[ranmaru]

Hmmm, I'm sure Acrostic may have forgotten. But why would one want Glyph to be inactive or just NOT remind him to speak? Could he be lynched?

I'm sure no one would want people to hide.

Even I need to re-check the list since I don't remember all who need to come in and post.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Interesting that you fail to mention glyph, when I don't recall him posting yet @Ran/Acrostic/Grump: what do you make of this?

To be honest, I totally forgot about him. I think everyone else did too.

 

[Grump]

@Acrostic: I'm not quite sure yet. He DOES defend Tery to some degree
Post #118 "Though, we shouldn't mull over this any more. Honestly, if you don't like it then replace out . Playing games should be enjoyable and not a chore."

and most recently #123 "^ No more dicussing this though. We should be scum hunting and this is not scum hunting :D"

Both times referring to Tery. While I do agree with his logic, I find it odd that he sticks up for Tery and not anybody else. I didn't want to pull this nugget out until prodded though, otherwise it would have seemed like tunneling

I'm also slightly suspicious about his IC duties, but that's because I've seen fowl play before during my spree of game-watching. I won't hold it against him though until he gives me a reason to.

@Vand: Not much, but tis noted now. I hadn't picked up on that until you mentioned ;-;

 

[UberMario]

Yeah, I've been quiet, observing to see what exactly I need to or should post, as this is very new to me.

 

[Grump]

Yeah, I've been quiet, observing to see what exactly I need to or should post, as this is very new to me.

Well, what info have you gathered so far?

 

[ranmaru]

Yes Ubermario, but remember, we will evaluate you once you post, so be wary.

I myself am learning, but I have learned you should vote randomly, just to get discussion going. But if you do, you may be pressured and may not handle it, so don't be quick to point yet.

 

[vanderzant]

@Acrostic: Yeah I had actually forgot about him too >.<. If anything, this makes me confident that at least one of you is town, reason being (WIFOM aside) that you would of thought of your scum buddy when mentioning inactives.