Map Station[OP UNDER CONSTRUCTION!]: Delfino Plaza!

[Throwback]

So
1) you don't like that the ship swings, because it makes it hard to upB back; and
2)you don't like that if you are on the low side CS can get cancelled before it reaches the opponent.

Is that right?

for 1), I don't really ledgedrop to upB much, I find aerial upB gets beaten by a lot of things and takes too long to be safe. I am far more likely to DJ fair or DJ missile first, buying me cover for my upB.

for 2), I agree it can be annoying but if you are paying attention this should never happen to you.

The ability to rising zair half of the match is just too good for me.

 

[KillerJawz]

for 1), I don't really ledgedrop to upB much, I find aerial upB gets beaten by a lot of things and takes too long to be safe. I am far more likely to DJ fair or DJ missile first, buying me cover for my upB.

You are doing it wrong.

Whilst Samus does have other options, the ability to force an approach to the ledge, provided you are smart enough to know when they will come down to get you, you do NOT need to actually worry about getting spiked. On Lylat however, it becomes increasingly more difficult to do this, the stage tilting can actually gimp us.

 

[Throwback]

experiences like getting bair stage spiked out of upB by pretty much every character in the game means I don't do drop -> upB much any more. If it works for you, great. I play the ledge a lot but I don't use that tactic and the rest of lylat is great for me.

 

[KillerJawz]

If you're getting bair spiked, then you are still doing it wrong. You're not supposed to do it when the opponent is RIGHT NEXT TO THE EDGE.

 

[Throwback]

which makes me wonder why I would do it at all - if they are giving me space, I shoot a missile or something.

 

[KillerJawz]

The clock. The more time you use up, the closer you are to winning :3

 

[Throwback]

After playing today and being aware of this issue, I've noticed that I actually use it quite a bit. I haven't noticed it affecting me greatly on lylat, but I'll keep it in mind.

 

[IYM!]

the ledges are anoyning for samus, but the plataforms give samus a good aprouching options, and our Utilt can hit an oponent when he is in the platform


PD: what is DJ fair and DJ missile?

 

[IsmaR]

Double Jump, no?

The platforms are very useful for spacing. U-tilt, Up B, F-tilt angled up and Z-air when the stage tilts in your favor are all very useful.

 

[IYM!]

also uair is very usefull here, do ok damage an can start combos or create spa, and that combinate with the plataforms can be really good for samus

 

[Zatchiel]

Utilt or some easy sort of Defrenstration(I think i spelled it wrong, lol) could lead to easy Jab locks on this stage against people like DK. Same on BF as well.

 

[IYM!]

which makes me wonder why I would do it at all - if they are giving me space, I shoot a missile or something.

that is usefull when your oponent dont know what exactly do, we can confuse our opponent and attack him when his guard are down. basicaly, that is the funcion of that technique, i think



again with plataforms, we can do a better use of our Screww attack throught the plataforms, and if the oponent is Shielding, break it, give a free hit

 

[Zatchiel]

I don't think the platforms are high enough for SA to hit their shield, are they? If so like on BF, you should also be safer when using SA due to landing a shorter time after you initiate.

 

[DtJ Composer]

Ok, so a little bit of my thoughts on Lylat Cruise.

1. With a battlefield-esque platform layout, Lylat makes Screw Attack safer.
*I actually think SAing under platforms is great not necessarily because it can end the lag faster but also because you can use them to trick your opponent and land safely. If you SA and land on the platform but you haven't knocked them far enough way you can be punished, but if you fall through the platform and they land on it then you're still safe

2. All three platforms have the benifit of being in utilt range (and usmash if you're into that). It can knock off shielding opponents too, which leads to other various set-ups.

3. The ledges--most characters hate how the ship tilts because it can ruin their attempts to recover, but being able to recover with tether makes that mostly irrelevant. Of course, if you have to recover low, screw attack isn't a bad upB move in terms of getting Lylat'd. I believe there's also a reset lip under the inside of the wings, so there's a chance that if you UpB wrong, you can get your UpB back.

4. The tilting has already sort of been addressed. It's worth noting that homing missiles are useful against characters who aren't tiny little pricks regardless of the direction of the tilt, and that Wario can be grab released (to utilt I think) when you have him grabbed towards the downward slope.

A big con of the platform height is that, if diddy has a banana on a platform and you try to utilt, the banana will trip you. It's obnoxious and stupid and I wouldn't recommend taking Diddy there just because of that fact (granted that's a pretty personal preference thing). You are also susceptible to a lot of other character's utilt/usmash shenanigans while you're on a platform, so be careful.

 

[KillerJawz]

When we screw attack under the platforms, do we appear on the character above us like we would if a character was on the top platform of BF?

If so, shield breaking will become a vital strategy on this stage.

 

[Zatchiel]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't, since the platforms here are lower than BF, it's prob. only going to be wearing down the shields of the larger cast. Other than that, we can get punished easily with OoS Usmash by someone like Pikachu, which in turn could lead to a thunder spike.

You could test and see, the platforms are too low, imo.

 

[IYM!]

so, this stage is good or bad for samus?

 

[Cherry64]

so, this stage is good or bad for samus?

Entirely dependant on the player, And actually I believe you can do a bit of damage to the shield but you won't stay spinning on the shield so breaking it will be hard to do.

 

[IYM!]

aaa, well , its time for discusse anoother stage or is too soon?

i really want read some more info about samus

 

[Cherry64]

Not sure, There's info here, but whether or not we have enough of it for Lylat beats me, if you want to compile all the lylat stuff together and show us what we have we'd be able to assess he situation

 

[IYM!]

OK, after reading all the lylat post, i make a conclusion:

Lylat have 3 platforms than give samus a strong adventage in aproaching, she can use those platforms to get new points for shot her missiles and use the Zair, also can be usefull for meke less the helping falling state after a screw attack, also we can do a better use of our Uair, Nair, Fair, Utilt and in a few situations of our Usmash, other thing about the stage is his mobility, the ship always swings, and that can give us some adventages and problems some times. IMO that situations give samus more problems than adventages, in special with our edgeguarding game.

for example, the tecnique than i has siad before, (samus grab the edge and after she fall to make a Up B to get the edge again) is usefuul for mind games, and avoid the attacks for enemies ( samus is to good in the air, so our oponent will be afraid for go for attack us, because we can gimp him)

and the other technique than Throwback said before (samus in the ledge after she fall, do a second jump ,shot a missile and grab the ledge again) can be really dangerous to make because the stage are alwys swings, and do a screw attack and get stuck under the stage.

Like you said before Cherry 64, this stage depends of the aabilities and play style of the person, because this stage is a double-edged sword

 

[Cherry64]

Bumping for possible update. Hell, when I left this place 9 months ago we were still on lylat. Lets get to a different stage please! Write up was kind of short, but it sure was sweet. Good job IYM

 

[DtJ Composer]

Well I was hoping that there would be a bit more input but I guess what we have is what we get. I can start doing an official write up (Using IYM's as base of course) and in the meantime we can pick what stage to do next.

Spoiler

More like 2 months D:

 

[IsmaR]

I thought we were going in the predetermined order/neutrals from the OP. Also, dead links just prove this topic is on life-support.

 

[IYM!]

Bumping for possible update. Hell, when I left this place 9 months ago we were still on lylat. Lets get to a different stage please! Write up was kind of short, but it sure was sweet. Good job IYM

oh, thanks, sorry if my conclusion was short, i am really good to write things in special about smash, but the problem is my english, isnt enough good to make a large text, but i will improve it with the time, i promise

a, another thing i forgot say before, the movility of the Lylat also give problems with one of our best option for spacing, ours missile cancel,

to perform this technique in the best way we must do a SH and in the right moment do a missile, but sometimes the stage moves and that make us lose a oportunity to shot a missile, landing before and give samus a lag state (the same when you do the MC wrong)


i am agree with Ismar we need organizate this threat a little, start with FD, BF or SV, IMO

 

[DtJ Composer]

I mean this revival was because I was interested in a stage thread like this in the first place and didn't know that somewhere in some time period one existed. Is that how it used to run? I'm willing to discuss whatever stage, which is why I figured I'd ask for suggestions. If you'd like to continue moving down the list on the OP then that's fine too.

After this weekend I need to do some touching up on the OP, that's for certain. This thread will be looking good as new sometime next week though (hopefully o.o).

Edit: Ignoring the way the list is now (because it's a bit outdated), the starters we have yet to discuss are Castle Siege and Delfino, I believe. Do we want to go to one of the two next?

 

[IYM!]

i think Castle siege will be good, that is a 3 in 1 stage, give us interesting options

 

[Cherry64]

Castle Siege it is! I jsut now realized why KJ isn't updating lol, It's entirely on Th3 Comp's shoulders lol.

To keep order we minazwell keep working through the list. I supremely hate Castle siege and choose to ban whenever possible, Honestly I enjoy yoshi's Island. ALSO as a side note, if ANYONE comes across anything about a map PREVIOUSLY discussed, MESSAGE Th3 Composer with the title "*Insert stage Here*", Be witty if you like and Actually put "Insert Stage Here" as the title, I care not, but I do not want this thread getting all cludder-****ed up.

Layin' Down the Law! I hope this is okay With Th3 Composer, I defs didn't check

 

[KillerJawz]

Yeah Composer asked for this thread quite a while back, but NOID was still considering parting with ownership. I'll only step in when Composer wants me to, until then, I'll just take notes on some situations :3.

I'll edit this post with my full CS writeup later.

 

[ZeroL]

I sadly don't play enough on Castle Siege to do a full white-up on it, BUT I do know some interesting and usefull stuff for this stage. I'll update with it tonight.

 

[IYM!]

So, we can disscuse Castle siege, or we must wait for Th3 Composer?

 

[DtJ Composer]

Oh, feel free to get started.
I'm working on getting stuff together to overhaul the OP (which should happen tomorrow), but I'll go ahead and change the topic.

 

[IYM!]

CS is a weird stage, 3 in 1, so we must take differents tactics for each phase.

Phase 1: is a small stage, so we will not have many problems getting a KO and is perfect for kill with our Zair, the platforms give us new angles for shot our projectiles and is importan mix the missiles ( homing and super ). In the same way than Lylat, the platform help us to make less the helpesfalling state after a screw attack, and help us to make a better use of our Uair an Utilt. BuT the platforms also can help to the opponent to get safe of our homing missiles, so keep this in mind.


Phase 2: the 2 statues give us problems with our spam, so the only thing than we can do is take a deffencive tactic, is important use right our close range combat, at least to evade the attacks for the opponent, i know the problems of the Samus's melee combat, but would not a bad idea know 2 or 3 things, at least the enough to get away our opponent and start a Zair spam.
the Zair is the Key here if we want make space between us and our opponent. If is possible you can destroy a statue, but i recomend destroy only one, in case we need change our strategies.

a good thing here are the platforms, we can do good aerial combos with those.
Like: jump (under the platform) > Fair > land in the platform> Jab cancel > Dtilt> jump Uair> Zair., for example.

Phase 3: this is like FD with a little protuberance in de middle and, like Lylat, this stage is in constant swing . just start to do the all samus mains here can do better : spam missiles and Zair, and dont forget the CS,, missiles are very good in flat stages, the opponent dont have plataforms to get close to us, so spam ftw here

 

[KillerJawz]

Jake do you plan on updating this thread soon or would you like me to take control over it?

 

[Xyro77]

there are no pictures on the front page. might wanna fix that

 

[DtJ Composer]

Believe me, I'm working on it, but Brawl Snapshots is probably the slowest and worst website in history.

 

[KillerJawz]

Haha okay ^^. So we are talking about siege now right?

 

[DtJ Composer]

Yessirree.

I hate this stage personally. I feel like the only part that's good for samus is stage 3. But that's why I was trying to wait for more input, because I used to hate Brinstar too until Ismar posted his thoughts on the stage.

Anyway, getting pictures of the legal stages up, will get the rest up between work this week, and will get the writeup done before saturday or so help me I'm the worst person in history ever.

 

[IYM!]

we have some adventages in the second stage, we can use our Zair to kill early

at the first stage, the platforms give us new spots to shots missiles (homming missiles) . Another good thing of this thing is the relife, than have at the center of the stage . that help us to shot our super missiles closer at the ground

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Sorry IYM! but no. The second stage hinders us the most, at least imo. The two statues both block our spam except for zair until they are destroyed, and it is also a walk-off, so CGers have an instant advantage. The first stage is too cramped and the third stage tilts, hindering our missles and zair or strengthening them depending on the tilt.

@Composser: Really? I don't think that Brinstar is too bad for Samus, but between it and Frigate Orpheon, the Frigate is perhaps my favorite CP