I was thinking it would use a normal jumping animation. Simple enough, right? It just needs to look respectable.
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Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Umm...you'd look like you're jumping off an invisible wall.
The thing is though, you need some kind of transition from the tumble state to the jumping state. I think it would look really odd if on one frame your falling on your back, but on the next your suddenly on your feet and jumping.
Mechanics wise it doesn't need any special animation, but I kinda wanted it to look...logical. Maybe a normal tech animation first instead of the tech roll? They just need something to explain how they got back on their feet.
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
I think it would just be a standing tech animation in which they're boosted upward at the point they turn upside down. I'm not sure if it's possible to have a character be moved into the air while still be considered to be in the tech animation, but in a worst case scenario you'd just make it so it was the jump animation at the point they leave the ground.
You could get something that resembled a jumptech in melee if you were hit into the ground, I believe (this seems to be what is common among all of the jumptechs I've done so far... I was still in knockback when they happened), so this is basically what I'm trying to emulate here. I wish I had videos of me (or someone else) doing it, though... then I might be able to figure out how to actually do it intentionally >_>
You could get something that resembled a jumptech in melee if you were hit into the ground, I believe (this seems to be what is common among all of the jumptechs I've done so far... I was still in knockback when they happened), so this is basically what I'm trying to emulate here. I wish I had videos of me (or someone else) doing it, though... then I might be able to figure out how to actually do it intentionally >_>
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
^^The tech jump thing you're refering to happens when you're hit to the edge of a platform, tech at the edge, and slide off during the tech, and then immediately jump. It indeed looks really cool, but honestly way too fast to be balanced if that's how we're implementing it. I was thinking that it should actually take a little bit longer than a standard tech (since you get the benefit of...moving), but less than a tech roll.
Okay. How about this?
The character would do the recovering animation of a normal tech. Like, for example, my main, Marth, does a hand stand and then jumps to his feet.
Just going on the assumption that anything is possible (Just to get the image across), Marth starts to rise up into the air during the start of his tech animation, and when he reaches a certain point in the animation, he'd be switched into his neutral falling jump animation, and at that point, he'd be at his apex and now falling.
You see what I mean? This way, it'd be clear to see when the invicframes end, and to promote balance, through this animation method, you could force a specific height if its agreed upon by supporters, than techjumped heights should be universal.
Because he'd be in his neutral fall animation, it'd be a clear indication of when he gets control and you know you can do something.
I could make a frame by frame example if I had the ability to.
The character would do the recovering animation of a normal tech. Like, for example, my main, Marth, does a hand stand and then jumps to his feet.
Just going on the assumption that anything is possible (Just to get the image across), Marth starts to rise up into the air during the start of his tech animation, and when he reaches a certain point in the animation, he'd be switched into his neutral falling jump animation, and at that point, he'd be at his apex and now falling.
You see what I mean? This way, it'd be clear to see when the invicframes end, and to promote balance, through this animation method, you could force a specific height if its agreed upon by supporters, than techjumped heights should be universal.
Because he'd be in his neutral fall animation, it'd be a clear indication of when he gets control and you know you can do something.
I could make a frame by frame example if I had the ability to.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
^^It makes sense for some characters (Marth for example), but how would that look with Bowser? I really think we should include the character's jump animations somehow, since some characters' tech animations just don't look like they'd make any sense in the air.
If we can move characters into the air during the tech animation...then I think it'd have to be a more character specific thing to make it look right, which would take a lot of line space.
I'm talking purely cosmetically right now. If we're going to implement this, it should not look out of place (and Bowser rising into the air while slowly flipping over his turtle shell would look incredibly odd). Ideally it should look just as pretty as the other tech options. That's kinda why I was just going for a combination of character specific animations, rather than trying to make a new one or taking one animation out of context.
If we can move characters into the air during the tech animation...then I think it'd have to be a more character specific thing to make it look right, which would take a lot of line space.
I'm talking purely cosmetically right now. If we're going to implement this, it should not look out of place (and Bowser rising into the air while slowly flipping over his turtle shell would look incredibly odd). Ideally it should look just as pretty as the other tech options. That's kinda why I was just going for a combination of character specific animations, rather than trying to make a new one or taking one animation out of context.
I meant rotating the tech animation so it would look like you were hopping off of the ground.
Though thinking it over again, that'd look really goofy. Nevermind. >_>
D
Deleted member
Guest
Yeah, I just took some screenshots of characeters wall-techjumping and if you flip them 90 degrees they look kinda weird.
If by incredibly odd, you mean incredibly badass, then I agree with you.
But in all seriousness, maybe you could use airdodge animations? There wouldn't be the appearance of a jump, but you could also borrow the invincibility and vulnerability data from it.
MasterWarlord
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2008
- Messages
- 2,911
Before we need manual tripping, we need air tripping. This will greatly increase the metagame of competetive play.
Best Post of 2009.
D
Deleted member
Guest
And by that of course you mean random air tripping.
Best Correction of 2009.
But really, back onto the topic of Techjumping.
Usually when a character normally techs on the ground, he is upside down, sooo we move him up during the first few frames of the upside down animation and turn it into a jumping animation which then goes into a normal jump animation to a fall animation
Still tech chase genocide. >_>
Even so, that's one more direction your opponent can go.
The only thing that this would even be useful for is avoiding tech chases. If you make it so it can still be tech chased, then it's useless.
If you make it so it cannot be tech chased, it destroys characters.
It's a good idea, really. Tech Jumping a spike into a GTFO aerial would be really satisfying.
I just don't see a good way to implement this, nor a need for it.
The only thing that this would even be useful for is avoiding tech chases. If you make it so it can still be tech chased, then it's useless.
If you make it so it cannot be tech chased, it destroys characters.
It's a good idea, really. Tech Jumping a spike into a GTFO aerial would be really satisfying.
I just don't see a good way to implement this, nor a need for it.
There is no real need for it, but like much of what B+ has done to Brawl, Depth would be added out the ***.
Hell, if this is figured out, it might very well make it into B+
TechnoMonster
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 836
Coding something entirely new into the engine like that, which no character has an animation for, would be almost stupidly difficult and probably very buggy.
This is obviously true and we already know this, which is why we're only talking about it on a hypothetical sense on how it would work.
PanzerOceania
Smash Ace
back on the manual tripping, not much point for it, but as someone said there is no invincibility while tripping, could that be programmed in? (would that effect all tripping, like on bananas, if so then it wouldn't work, but if you could just do it for regular tripping that you induce it'd be just a variation of a dodge but looks and moves slightly different, confusing the opponent)
Blad01
Smash Lord
Tech-jumping would be cool, but xould also allows to counter 'combos' or aggresive phases... What you don't want in B+, don't you ? :o
That's what teching does in general, just not as good.
D
Deleted member
Guest
So, sp unit262 made techjumping as a byproduct of the Tech Window Fix code, as of right now it's pretty broken since it's so good you'd never use a techroll over this. So yeah... Discuss.
I've done it. The window is pretty hard and ********. And how it stands now, yes. Tech jumping is broken. That's because there are no limitations placed on it. You can immediately aerial out of a techjump and there is no legit way to chase it. You can DJ out of it, Fast fall. Airdodge, everything you coudl do as if it was a normal jump. This is not good.
There needs to be heavy limitations and restrictions placed on techjumping in order to make it something worth using. Limit the height. Take away the double jump. Force a frame duration in which the techjumper cannot act. Add invinciframes to 90% of this duration. Allow fast fall and AD and attacking. And you have yourself a tech.
There needs to be heavy limitations and restrictions placed on techjumping in order to make it something worth using. Limit the height. Take away the double jump. Force a frame duration in which the techjumper cannot act. Add invinciframes to 90% of this duration. Allow fast fall and AD and attacking. And you have yourself a tech.
The Night Cat
Smash Cadet
What I have discovered so far:
To do a ground tech-jump(GTjump) you have start hitting the tech and jump buttons before your regular tech height/time. If you hit them late you'll get a regular tech and if you hit them too early you'll get nothing but the window is generous. Also if you come out of hitstun before or during the ground tech jump window I just described you'll probably air dodge, jump or jump and airdodge.
This information is from practicing with link and bombing myself.