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Majoras Mask Mafia! DGames' Longest Game Ends - Who Won?!?!?!?

#HBC | Nabe

Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
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How would I be aware of that if I've only ever even seen you do it as scum? And why should I care about earning your trust if you deny it to people on such an arbitrary basis?
It's pretty clear from your answer here that you're a bit strung up. Which is understandable given the situation and you responding to a ton of people at once, but just keep calm and break accusations with logic. If you're town, directly ask people where and what their cases are, then quote them and gracefully tear them apart, or berate them for not responding to you. You appear scummy by reactions at the moment, and I challenge you not to post again until you can see that perspective.

Unvote

What exactly do you consider a Watson to be? Because if it's anything more than "someone I think I can trust," then I probably just wouldn't even deal with trying to have one. I realize you're probably trying to get reads and connections or something in your own weird way, but you're asking me things that I just don't feel apply to me. There are players that I like and players that I don't like. I've been pretty overt about the latter, and I'm more covert with the former for what are surely obvious reasons.
As town looking for a Watson, I want someone who'll bounce ideas off of me so I can say "Nope, that's wrong", come up with the proper answer, and look better as a result. Just like the real London couple.

More seriously, I often (not always) pick people I find scummy. It's not a matter of trust at all, it's me using them as a talking board for my ideas, and scoring a read on them simultaneously.

I'm going to drop this. What are your thoughts on Raziek?

I consider them very much in the same boat, though Frio is notably even less present than John is. They're both opportunistic; I read both of them as being insincere with their reads/votes. Would you disagree with any of that assessment?
I think there are some subtle differences between the two, but what you've said is certainly valid. Check to make sure that they know specifically what it is you want from them.
 

#HBC | Nabe

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Another question for Xastrn. What do you think about what I said regarding your playstyle? I'm not sure if you have the perspective to say whether or not it's valid; what I'm wondering more is if you've noticed stark differences in players playing this game compared to players in other games you played less recently. Or on a slightly different tack, are there players in this game (excluding Ryu) who are doing weird things, acting seemingly scummy, or just not pulling their weight?
 

Overswarm

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Dark Souls is coming out soon. Expect me to respond with 'I dunno, Dark Souls' a lot for at least 48 hours.
 

Lore

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I'm still catching up soooo

@OS: In one post, you state that you are alright with tricking a townie into claiming. How is this attitude beneficial for town in any way?

@Raziek: You stated that you have seen RR do silly day cop shenanigans before. What games, specifically, have you seen this happen in?
 

Overswarm

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@OS: In one post, you state that you are alright with tricking a townie into claiming. How is this attitude beneficial for town in any way?
Which post? I don't remember.
 

Raziek

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@Raziek: You stated that you have seen RR do silly day cop shenanigans before. What games, specifically, have you seen this happen in?
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301750

He claims Rebecca Black, Friday Townie, with Dayvig powers or some bull****. We lynched him as a result of bad day 1 play and claiming the wrong color when he claimed his role. (he put the role name in green instead of blue)

He turned out to actually be Town, and his role was simply an informed Townie, so it wasn't much of a loss.
 

Raziek

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His actual role, I mean. Friday Townie was his shenanigans, he was actually Frogfucius, Wise Townie.
 

Overswarm

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http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301750

He claims Rebecca Black, Friday Townie, with Dayvig powers or some bull****. We lynched him as a result of bad day 1 play and claiming the wrong color when he claimed his role. (he put the role name in green instead of blue)

He turned out to actually be Town, and his role was simply an informed Townie, so it wasn't much of a loss.
I have never, not once, seen scum make this mistake to this day. Has this ever happened to anyone's knowledge?
 

Lore

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Which post? I don't remember.
Well, after reading it again after some sleep, I can see more of what you meant, but I suppose the question still stands.


blah blah blah I'm totally not against tricking a townie to claim, btw; just not this early when you can't choose who you want to hit with a realistic idea as to why.

Blah blah blah

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301750

He claims Rebecca Black, Friday Townie, with Dayvig powers or some bull****. We lynched him as a result of bad day 1 play and claiming the wrong color when he claimed his role. (he put the role name in green instead of blue)

He turned out to actually be Town, and his role was simply an informed Townie, so it wasn't much of a loss.
Oh, ok. Are there any other examples?
 

Raziek

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Not that I can think of off the top of my head, but my point was that it didn't stand out as uncommon to me. I think he may have done it in other BBR games, but some of them haven't been moved out, and it doesn't particularly matter. I don't know why you're hung up on this.
 

Lore

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Not that I can think of off the top of my head, but my point was that it didn't stand out as uncommon to me. I think he may have done it in other BBR games, but some of them haven't been moved out, and it doesn't particularly matter. I don't know why you're hung up on this.
Oh, I was just curious. It just doesn't seem "ryu enough," from my experience of him.
 

#HBC | Nabe

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Oh, Nabe, you never got back to me with whatever that was, I think.

And....

unvote
Mm, are you done? What I wanted to say is that it seems like you were doggedly pursuing John and Frio's reads simply for the sake of doing it.

You asked one of them (I forget which) for reads on, I think, 5 players. I'm not sure where you chose these players from, perhaps from OS' chart? You continued to push for the full list of reads from the player when they only gave a partial. Have their reads helped you in any way? Unless one of the reads they missed was the read you were really looking for, and you blended it by asking about other reads as well, I don't see how it might've helped you. Instead, it appeared to me that you were asking for the sake of asking, to look like you were on their case and making an effort. Doing so would also put a bit of distance between you and events surrounding Circus, for the moment.

I would tie this in as well to a parallel between you and Solid. Recently, Solid began pushing John as if it had been his agenda from the get-go. While this could tie in with a reconsidered perspective that he now shares with Circus (potentially evident from him being somewhat on Circus' side of your argument), I see it more in the sense that I saw your push for the entire read list you requested. It looks like work for the sake of appearing to do work, as if he had noted public perception of himself and began targeting John as a result.

Do you see what I'm getting at re: Solid, and then, do you see where I'm drawing this parallel within my perspective?

How do you feel about Circus currently -- I see you've just unvoted?
 

Raziek

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I see what you're getting at, yeah.

I've been trying to eke some content out of him so I can at least have some idea of where he stands in regards of the rest of the players. He's not exactly giving us much, though.

He took a lot of safe stances (admittedly partially because I could have picked a better list of players, in hindsight), but he didn't justify anything. The only content he's actually given me was a summary of their posting styles, which doesn't help me at all.

I've reconsidered about Circus. I still don't like his defense, but I can see when we're not going to progress much father on that front in terms of this constant back and forth. I don't think he's scummy enough to lynch at this point in the game. I wouldn't take the chance.

I haven't voted John because I'm conflicted. I know I can count on Circus to be active and provide content. The early push has helped me get a better idea of where Circus stands, too. On the other hand, I'm not convinced John is scum. Anti-Town for certain, but not scum, IMO. I'd vote for him if that's how things go, but I'm not going to throw my vote on him at this point.
 

Kantrip

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Hey guys. I'll probably be done reading tonight. While I go through this, is there anything in particular I should be aware of?

:phone:
 

Raziek

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Current major focuses are on Circus and John, nobody has claimed.

Not really going to taint your reading, you should come to the situation with your own opinion.
 

Overswarm

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Current major focuses are on Circus and John, nobody has claimed.

Not really going to taint your reading, you should come to the situation with your own opinion.
Raziek is also of major suspicion for constantly hinting at things that aren't there and saying things like "You should focus on Circus and John, but I won't taint your reading and you should come to the situation with your own opinion".
 

Raziek

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OS, you can't argue that the current focuses are Circus and John. They're the only two people with cases made against them.
 

Overswarm

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OS, you can't argue that the current focuses are Circus and John. They're the only two people with cases made against them.
I've yet to see a case on either of them that's worth considering. I've seen people discussing tells, but that's it. The strongest scum tell so far is on Solid, and I'm not concerned about killing him at the moment, so I don't think I'm going to agree to Circus or John being "focuses".
 

Raziek

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Content of the cases has nothing to do with it. Look at where the votes are. Those are the two wagons currently.
 

X1-12

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Votecount 5 - [8/15] - Deadline 11th October

Raziek [0]
T-Block [0]
Overswarm [1] - RR
Xastrn [0]
Solid [1] - OS
Panta [2] - T-Block, Spellcasters
Red Ryu [2] - Werekill, Xastrn
dabuz [0]
Nabe [0]
Circus [3] - J, Frio, John2k4
Werekill [0]
John2k4 [2] - Circus, Solid
spellcasters [1] - Panta
J [0]
Frio [1] - MOD

Not Voting [3] - Dabuz, Nabe, Raziek
 

Overswarm

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Content of the cases has nothing to do with it. Look at where the votes are. Those are the two wagons currently.
*looks up*

Obviously.


I'm pretty tired of your shenanigans Raziek. Playing as town or scum, you're playing sloppy, and that's just plain disrespectful. Show some effort.

"Look where the votes are" ?

That's an appeal to authority, nor does it imply who the "focus" is. We have three people with one vote, three people with two votes, and one person with three votes. Those wagons are all identical, separated only by cases, of which none have been made as of yet.

The entirety of comments made on both Circus and John have been "that's unhelpful" or "well, you sure are, uh, defending yourself there! That's what scum would do!". There is no "focus" and all our time so far has mostly been wasted because you are approaching the problem by choosing two people (good so far) and then pairing them against each other mentally with the assumption that one's alignment is affecting the other... when it does not.

You're not going to get answers that way. You picked one person out of 17, and you let that person pick someone else, and then decided those were the two that were the "focus"? Hardly. The odds of getting one scum out of that group is very low. The odds of getting two, especially when you let the other person pick it, is incredibly small.

Instead, ignore Circus and John because they've given you nothing. The people that have actually GIVEN you something are the people that have commented on it. YOU are more of a focus than Circus or John are, and I could get you lynched for your posts if I felt so inclined. I strongly suggest instead of reviewing Circus and John you review those that have commented on the case and, just as important, those who have not.

I even made a chart for you; you can start from there.
 

Overswarm

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We have one week until deadline and no coherent cases or wagon yet. I have no strong reads I'm willing to pursue over others at the moment. Panta is looking like a good choice for a fallback lynch still.

Panta, you better get to work. I can and will make you the lynch for today if we don't find someone better.
 

Overswarm

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I've killed them. Everyone else in the thread is DEAD.

I'm gonna disappear. Dark Souls. Be back tomorrow maybe.
 

Lore

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Haha, everyone isn't dead. This thread just isn't moving at lightspeed like it usually does.

Anyway, I still don't like Ryu, Raziek is looking a bit iffy (but not flat out scummy), Circus wagon isn't too good, John is looks decently bad, and I'm perfectly fine with Panta as a fallback lynch.
 

Circus

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You appear scummy by reactions at the moment, and I challenge you not to post again until you can see that perspective.
I've always been able to see that perspective. But it's a very shallow perspective, and thus is one that I would expect players like J and Raz and Dastrn not to adhere to so strongly. That's what frustrates me. I get why someone like John or Frio might think that's a good excuse to point a finger at me, but the vets should know better than to strike on things as dumb as "well, you're using some inflammatory language and not acting cool enough about being put at L-2 for no real reason as we think you should be." That's garbage.

With all of that said, you still have a point. My actions are the only ones I can control and getting pissy about other people being dumb isn't getting me anywhere. Circus: Cool-As-Ice Mode, go!

I'm going to drop this. What are your thoughts on Raziek?
I've actually disagreed with you on him for most of the Day. He's been coming off pretty town to me. But his sudden shift away from me and onto John looks fishy (which I'll get to in a sec). That, combined with his reasoning for voting me in the first place (me asking for Ryu's nameclaim) has me questioning my read. Him trying to turn that into a "gotcha" moment almost certainly says more about him than it does me.


+1 point for using that phrase. I teach on cognitive dissonance to my staff and my boys.

Although I agree that your post that OS said "reeks" did in fact "reek." so -1 for that post.

null read on raziek right now. I think i'm feeling the flip side of our philosophy differences, so, I won't worry too much about it for now.

I'm still happy with OS is playing. He seems like he's pressuring people well to bait mistakes out of scum. I can't see a scum-aligned motivation for most of his actions. :awesome: because he likes that pic.

I'm still reading scum on John.

My vote is now on Red Ryu, though. And I think he's a better lynch candidate than Circus. While I haven't been impressed with circus' reaction to the pressure, and I think most of that pressure is coming from townies, I expect that there are some scum on that wagon. I also think the same scum were on the early werekill wagon.

RR, I voted for you because you seem intent on expressing yourself with (not)clever gifs rather than using words. Gifs won't hold you responsible for their content. but we will hold you to every word. Get over ace attorney or whatever that game is. It's not even a good game. Play THIS game. with words. Quit hiding behind pictures.

Everyone else that is posting pictures is also being verbose and open. You are hiding. scum hide.

i recommend we switch this wagon. I also recommend that we make CIRCUS our fallback, instead of Panta, for now.
Really dislike this post. Reasoning for everything is abysmal or non-existent. I know you've stated openly that you're not trying to take this game too seriously because you want to have fun or whatever, but that doesn't excuse the gaps in reasoning.

You say there's probably scum on my wagon (I think it's obvious that I agree), but your vote is on Red Ryu, who isn't on my wagon and never was. Who do you think is the scum on my wagon? Just John, or is there anyone else? And why aren't you voting for one of them if this is how you feel?

On its own, your reasoning for your suspicion of Ryu is weak and seems to have come out of nowhere. Since this post, Ryu has asked you how he has used gifs to "hide," and I still think you haven't answered that in a satisfying way. I think there are bigger fish that could be fried, and I'm not just talking about John or even Frio right now. Picking on Ryu, especially for something as small as this, looks scumlazy.

You also recommend that we switch the fallback lynch to being me rather than Panta. Justify this. You think there's scum on my wagon who you're not even voting for, and Panta's still a non-entity in this game (along with a few other players), yet none of those people are a better fallback than me, to you. Why do you want me gone?

@John: Top three scum picks; no weaseling out of this. You've spent a lot of time saying you're rereading or gathering information, yet you've hardly presented any of the results you've gotten from that. It is in scum's best interest not to divulge things like that so they keep the town's vision blurry after they flip. You posting fewer reads = you having fewer connections to analyze after you flip. I'd like to seem some of this thought process that you seem to think needs to be hidden.

Also, your vote on me is currently nothing more than an OMGUS. I need better reasoning than that from you.

@Raz: I'm not really sure how you could have been confused about whether or not I actually thought John was scummy. I posted a case full of links showing examples of my problems with him. I called him scum, as bluntly as possible, twice. Your response to me being "oh, so you actually think John is scum then? Oh my bad, we cool," is really weird. I don't see how this could have been unclear. The way you're suddenly flipping away from me and toward John now is a rather sudden left turn, from my point of view.

@Frio: Who is your biggest scum read? Whoever it is, your vote better be on that person in your next post (which should come soon). And I'd like an explanation on why it is that person even if your vote stays on me. "T-block said..." is not an explanation.

@Dabuz: you're officially vigbait to me unless you start genuinely contributing to this game. That, or you're the new fallback if Panta ever gets his ducks in a row. So far, all you've done is ask shallow questions with no follow up. I have no reason to want you alive right now.
 

Circus

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Oh, also, welcome to the game, Kantrip. Though I'm kind of bummed I won't get to call Spellcaster "Spells" anymore. That was fun for some reason.
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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Mm, are you done? What I wanted to say is that it seems like you were doggedly pursuing John and Frio's reads simply for the sake of doing it.

You asked one of them (I forget which) for reads on, I think, 5 players. I'm not sure where you chose these players from, perhaps from OS' chart? You continued to push for the full list of reads from the player when they only gave a partial. Have their reads helped you in any way? Unless one of the reads they missed was the read you were really looking for, and you blended it by asking about other reads as well, I don't see how it might've helped you. Instead, it appeared to me that you were asking for the sake of asking, to look like you were on their case and making an effort. Doing so would also put a bit of distance between you and events surrounding Circus, for the moment.

I would tie this in as well to a parallel between you and Solid. Recently, Solid began pushing John as if it had been his agenda from the get-go. While this could tie in with a reconsidered perspective that he now shares with Circus (potentially evident from him being somewhat on Circus' side of your argument), I see it more in the sense that I saw your push for the entire read list you requested. It looks like work for the sake of appearing to do work, as if he had noted public perception of himself and began targeting John as a result.

Do you see what I'm getting at re: Solid, and then, do you see where I'm drawing this parallel within my perspective?

How do you feel about Circus currently -- I see you've just unvoted?
I want to point out that I have been looking at John for content for a while now. There's this post from two days ago and this post from a little earlier. Don't think is something that's just come out of nowhere. And I don't think he's given me anything when I've asked for content all game either.

Panta, where are you? Thoughts on Raziek, if you ever come back to this game.

Personally not liking Raziek much after seeing him talk with OS. Looking at the votecount I see 4 people with 2 or 3 votes on them, how 2 wagons could be pulled out of that I'm not sure.

RR, did you ever answer my question about why you're voting OS?
 

#HBC | J

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I'll be trying to catch up tonight since it's my down-day but a nap first. I've skimmed most of everything since my last post 'cept the stuff on this page.

Circus' last big post I really really like. So there may be a change of focus when I get back because what he is bringing up is rekindling something for me I've disliked for a while now. I'll explain why I like that post later. ^^

But there is still a sad note...

Raz said:
I've reconsidered about Circus. I still don't like his defense, but I can see when we're not going to progress much father on that front in terms of this constant back and forth. I don't think he's scummy enough to lynch at this point in the game. I wouldn't take the chance.
Raz, I don't like this line because there really hasn't been that much heat for Circus nor that much "constant back and forth". It seems like a cop-out to the pressure. Should I begin worrying now or later, buddy? =x

Nabe said:
You appear scummy by reactions at the moment, and I challenge you not to post again until you can see that perspective.
I don't care if I smell like poo but I love you for this because it's a very true statement.

WK said:
Hm. In the last game I played with Ryu (Newbie), I don't recall him trying to patronize people with Gifs. This is a weird shift in behavior.
This is also a true statement which kind of puts me off (style-wise), but play-wise, I don't really have a problem with him at all. However, I do have a question for you, you have posted that you have thoughts on "X, Y, and Z." yet could you explain more on RR and another scum-suspect of yours? What's your opinion on Xastrn?

*looks up at typed stuff*

Uhm, did more than I thought and for now I think I'd like to do this and reassess things more thoroughly. I'm gonna try and re-read a few things but wow 15 pages already. x_X

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