Mafia Sleepover: The Finale [ Town Wins - Pokemon Sight seeing]

[#HBC | Leviathan]

Gova don't you see this scum right here? ^

Werekill, calm down. Vote Dabuz. He's scum.

@ #HBC | Amidamaru

Aladdin.jpeg

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

My partner will never give in to you, serpent.

 

[#HBC | Leviathan]

@#HBC | Ranmaru

You will not be giving into me. You will be following your own intuition; you have expressed concern over Bunzy and are troubled that you and I are among the few who see through the facade he utilizes that has the depth of the kiddie side of the pool.

By voting him, you will be taking control of your hydra and breaking free of the shackles placed on you by the blindness of the Town. Know that if you do not unchain yourself that Zen will continue bullying people into his lynches while ignoring your opinion. No more. Together, we can make a difference.

We do not need to fight. Think of the times and chemistry we had in the mini, my friend. Then look inside your heart.

It's time to follow it.

 

[Gova]

The logical part of me sees where you're coming from.

The other part knows that my action failed to go through last night and it was possible that I was jailed [a fairly common role] which would explain both ends.

maybe; but im less inclined to believe that he's actually a vig since he botched his claim; he conveniently forgot to mention he's one-shot even though im pretty sure he said he was going to shoot you again if you weren't lynched today

What I'm asking is why would he put so much investment into lynching Xonar? Why would he put himself on the spot to lynch a single slot when lynching that slot would ensue his death the next day?

because he can; it can also be an elaborate bus; which i alluded to when i mentioned elements and attributes and pokemafia; what i dont have is why he would put so much investment into the lynch as town; going so far as to fake claim to get someone lynched doesnt ring as town to me; you dont see me going around counter claiming samus aran town vig to get murderbush lynched do you? no of course not; that would be a ****ing stupid thing to do as a townie

who says it would ensure his death the next day? also wheres the proof that leviathan is actually xonar? he's probably lying about that too honestly;

the only way they could know it's xonar is if he told them; which defeats the point of making an anonymous account; or raz checked his ip which in my book is cheating; he's using metadata (the ip address) to find out who that is; and knowing who leviathan is gives him an advantage in the game regardless of murderbush's alignment;

 

[Arcane Inferno]

Holy **** I go V/LA for a weekend to bro out with marshy and **** hits the ****ing fan

Anyone who really thinks Murder is scum is not thinking this through properly. Murder clearly has no survival intentions. At best he could be some suicidal Warlock and that's even lulzy for me. Scum Murder does not benefit from his claim. Scum Murder does not benefit from dying. Scum Murder does not benefit from lynching a town Levi.

After reading murder's claim, this was my thought exactly.

This play gives me literally ZERO scum vibes. Is consistent with their M.O. all game, it doesn't come right up against deadline in an attempt to get a last minute swing, it doesn't come at a time where competing wagons were pushing Levi pressure into irrelevancy.

This was a move made by murder because they legitimately believe in the Levi lynch and think any other lynch is a ****ing mistake. Most of us might not agree with that, but I think it's pretty easy to recognize that that is the motivation behind murder's play here.

This tells me that what they're claiming happened either actually did happen, or they're making a gambit claim that they'll renege on tomorrow assuming Levi is lynched.

Unfortunately I'm having a really, really hard time figuring out what is actually going on. We already have one person claiming to be RB'd, and that's the very person who survived the alleged night shot. As has been mentioned, a jailing of Levi explains that perfectly, but Levi as a jailer pick N1 doesn't seem all that likely to me. Then again, if I was a jailer this game I would have had a tough time deciding the optimal N1 target in this game, so I'm not very confident in my ability to predict how that would've went down. 2 different roleblockers would be ludicrous so that's not worth considering IMO. Obviously one of them could be lying about their respective claim. I've already discussed at length how shady Levi's claim was and how it could easily be faked (albeit not without drawing significant attention to himself, a move that I've already discussed could be a worthy tradeoff depending on his role is he's scum). As I've mentioned though, BOTH of these slots have motivation to lie here. Murder for admittedly not very pro-town by play per se but what I read to be genuinely town motivated by the fact that the slot chose to do it in this manner. Levi has ample scum motivation, but again, I've already dedicated an entire post to that which I won't force you all to read yet again.

Between the two claims, I feel much, much better about Murders. This is probably colored by the fact that murder I think stands out as strongly townie slot by play. Even though a lot of slots don't want to admit it, I think many players here think this is the case. Obviously there is a lot of disagreement with the slot on its reads, but I don't think anyone has been very synced up on reads this game, period. That disagreement doesn't justify scumreads on the slot IMO.

Because I think murder is telling the truth here, this has raised another possibility in my mind. Are we dealing with an indy in Levi?

I hadn't considering this much before because indies seemed to be on the downtrend in pervasiveness for SWF games. But Rockin would certainly not hesitate to throw a possible indy into the mix. If Levi is a BP indy of some sort, that would perfectly explain murder's failed shot, and also would explain his incredibly survivalist playstyle. If Levi is an indy, he could LEGITIMATELY have had strong scum reads and be pushing them for legitimate town cred. We've considered him bussing a slot, like dabuz for example, but it could very well be the case that Levi as an indy actually IS scumhunting. Just not to help the town, but rather, secure the most solid town credit he possibly get. As an indy, especially one who is BP, you give zero ****s about how much scum hates you. You only want town to love you and adore you to remove your lynch as even a remote possibility. Of course, as such a role, your survival is paramount; you can't win if you die.

I'm not saying this absolutely what's going on, but right now its a possibility that strongly weighs in favor of believing the murderbush right now.

Also, I have an idea about what murderbush may be trying to do here with this claim. I don't want to say much else, but I want to see how it plays out and lynch murder today would snuff that out entirely. Murder just really shouldn't be in contention for the play today at all.

I mean, I guess they could be trying to set me up to be in a TvT situation with Levi and then everyone comes and bodies me on LeviTown flip but I don't think that's the goal here. They've been pretty steadfast in their approach to Levi pretty much all game. And it doesn't make sense at all, as I'll explain in this post.

Anyway, the filter is coming off. YOLO mode baby.

-snip- Read List -snip-

I wish this filter or whatever it is you called your whimsical bull**** in the early game had come off a lot sooner. I can actually read you when you post meaningful **** instead of ******** about how we read you as scum for, ya know, posting nothing but whimsical bull**** all game, and then just playing it off like its some obviously town tell that only we don't get.

Just like a made fun of Zen for constantly saying "wahhhhhhhhh FF is scummy" over and over again in Monster without substantiating it when I said "lelelelel if I keep saying it it just makes it true amirite?", I feel the urge to do the exact same thing to you here. You just go "lel arcane's read on me is poop top kek that slot so scum for readin me this way" but literally make no effort to correct our read on you if we assume you are town. I don't get how you can act so surprised at our read when you seem to take pride in continuing to do what made us read you as scum, whilst laughing off our legitimate reaction to it.

As I've mentioned, I the frozen head haven't been as sold on you being the top play as Gheb is. He's pretty damn confident you're scum, and like I said, I don't blame him. If posts like this are what I can expect from bardull going forward, I'm less inclined to keep you in the top plays pool today. Especially considering murder's claim what follows from that.

w.r.t. Ami's case on Levi through interactions with werekill as it relates to Levi allegedly being Xonar, I think this pretty much sums up my reaction:

That case doesn't even make sense; it is based on Werekill IP searching me which he probably did not do.

If werekill was going to react emotionally to Xonar getting outed as Levi, I don't think he would have the filter necessary to express his rage but at the same time mask the fact that he knew the answer to whether or not Xonar was in fact Levi. No offense Werekill, but I just see that happening.

Werekill's disdain toward the fact that someone was trying to out Levi's identity seems completely genuine to me in that it seemed like he was upset at the prospect that Levi's identify may have been outed in pursuit of pushing a lynch on him. He didn't seem like he was upset because he knew that the accuser was right and trying to profit it from it. But maybe Werekill is better at hiding what he actually knows than I'm giving him credit for. It just seems unlikely to me that someone who was so vehemently against revealing Levi's identity would have went ahead and checked Levi's IP on his own. If anything, that'd be awfully hypocritical.

Overall Im really starting to think that Levi is becoming the best play. Not necessarily by his play, but for the fact that there exists a lot of murkiness with the slot thanks to the claims surrounding it, and the fact that literally every slot in this game has taken a stance on the slot. Different Levi flips give us a lot to work with. If he flips town or indy we obviously look into his scum picks. Bunzy for example should be on the chopping block immediately upon a town or indy flip IMO. Upon re-read I'm more and more convinced that that's not an SvS bus relationship unless Levi flips some ****ing godlike scum role that was desperate to survive one more day phase (i.e. one shot hitman, yakuza, or something similar).

I'm not gonna drop hammer without going over my thoughts with Gheb first since I've left him out to dry during the entirety of my V/LA and I haven't been able to get him up to speed on my thought process yet.

Also hmu if there's **** I missed that needs talking about before potential hammer. There's still a lot of **** that I need to sort out, notably Gova and Kanty's slots who I've paid far too little attention to this game.

 

[JeXs]

@ Dramatic Flair
Is your claim real or fake?

 

[JeXs]

@ Dramatic Flair
Is your claim real or fake?

This is important so please answer honestly.

 

[Gova]

lol

10char

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

@ #HBC | Leviathan Ran is not so silly. You don't know how bad he wants to lynch you. The only reason he went on that wack voting rampage was because I told him he was too caught up in lynching you and that we should look at all the branches.

@ Gova Frozens post explains Murder well.

@ Arcane Inferno @#HBC | FrozeηFlame please hammer add soon as possible. There's not much time to the deadline. And it seems like you're really the only person available to hammer.

This is the third time you've ignored my case on werekill being opportunistic and ingenuine. Please take a look at it and please do not ask me to bring it up for the fourth time.

 

[JeXs]

@ #HBC | Leviathan Ran is not so silly. You don't know how bad he wants to lynch you. The only reason he went on that wack voting rampage was because I told him he was too caught up in lynching you and that we should look at all the branches.

@ Gova Frozens post explains Murder well.

@ Arcane Inferno @#HBC | FrozeηFlame please hammer add soon as possible. There's not much time to the deadline. And it seems like you're really the only person available to hammer.

This is the third time you've ignored my case on werekill being opportunistic and ingenuine. Please take a look at it and please do not ask me to bring it up for the fourth time.

I will hammer depending on murder's answer

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

I love you.

 

[Gova]

deadline isn't until tomorrow;

i can hammer as well

 

[JeXs]

Murder, please do answer honestly as this is crucial to town winning.

 

[Arcane Inferno]

****kkkk I knew I forgot to do something

This is the third time you've ignored my case on werekill being opportunistic and ingenuine. Please take a look at it and please do not ask me to bring it up for the fourth time.

not ignoring, forgetting. though I understand that that obviously feels the same to you. my b

If you look at this Murderbush NEVER ACTUALLY SAID ANYTHING REGARDING WHY QUICK LYNCHING WAS BENEFICIAL. Murder never ever ever deconstructed Were's points. The red text indicates where Were was disagreeing with quick lynching, and the counterpoints made against his concern (by Levi). All of the white text had nothing to do with regards to the quick lynch topic. The mini back and forth between Murder and Were was not about the quick lynching. The Murder-Were interaction was about Ryker disliking the slot, were asking why he disliked the slot, and Ryker explaining why he disliked the slot. Ryker never answer Were's question about "why quicklynching is good". Ryker never even makes that argument. Yet it is after his interaction with Ryker that he suddenly comes to the conclusion that "they" are right about quick lynching.

Let me walk through this one more time. The red shows Were's point against quick lynching. It then shows Levi's argument for doing so. Followed by Were STILL disagreeing. LEVI'S POINT DID NOT CONVINCE WEREKILL. Werekill jumped to "being convinced" only after his interaction with Ryker (the white text) that had nothing to do with the quicklynching argument. This is why Were's seemed progression in attitude was not real. It was only made to look as if he were developing a change in attitude.

Were: I don't like the idea of lynching this early 24 hours into the game.
Levi: If you have scum you should lynch them.
Were: I still disagree, we should allow time for more interactions and people to post.
Murder: I don't dislike you. I had a 100 word limit in the disco thread and needed to lynch fast.
Were: OK you guys convinced me.

Were was merely taking the opportunity to ql protean- while trying to maintain the image of being the protown, inexperienced townie that was just following the more experienced players.

Alright, I absolutely see where you're coming from now. Putting all those posts next to each other like you did reallllllly clarifies what you're getting at. At face value, there is definitely a lack of clear dback and forth between murder and were on the topic of whether quicklynching has value. Here's the thing, I think you're oversimplifying the murder - were exchange a bit and thats what makes this feel a little reachy to me.

[quote="Ryker']I said I want to and not that I'm going to. You need to start avoiding the multiple places where you're standing in the way of progress, intentional or no. You started with your lack of substance on the Jexs interaction because it was RVS and you again give me little by saying it's too early to lynch instead of waying in on Protean.

And I really don't dislike you. That disco game I jumped on you because I knew you would react. The claim was also unwieldy and looked highly suspect. I didn't give you much interaction and I didn't extend the day phase because I had a role that literally limited me to 100 words a phase. This post is over 100 words. You cannot play mafia in that fashion, especially in an extended scenario.[/quote] I think the second paragraph here is what makes why Ryker says relevant to the idea of quicklynching. He basically tells werekill to not take the fact that he was quicklynched by Ryker in the disco room game personally or as indicative of how constructive a quick D1 lynch can be because he [Ryker] was playing under extraordinary circumstances (only being able to post 100 words a phase). Assuming I'm understand this correctly (I actually have no idea what happened in that disco room game so I could be completely wrong here), I think Ryker's statement here is much more related to the argument for why quick lynching isn't always a bad idea than you are giving it credit for. Granted, it's very subtle and obviously doesn't stand out to non-involved parties. Saying "don't let your own personal bad experience color your judgement w.r.t. quicklynching", which is functionally why ryker did, could certainly be a persuasive argument when the person you're dealing with (werekill) had what was a presumably bad and emotionally upsetting experience in this disco game, considering werekill has said that he literally thought ryker had a personal problem with him after having that experience. Maybe Im reading into it too much though.

But to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, are you arguing that this is scumwere initially was trying to argue against a QL just to look like early game brownie townie arguing for text book precautionary ****, and then when he sensed that he wasn't going to win that argument with the loud slots he faked being convinced to avoid scrutiny and/or join their wagon?

 

[Arcane Inferno]

goddamn formatting

I said I want to and not that I'm going to. You need to start avoiding the multiple places where you're standing in the way of progress, intentional or no. You started with your lack of substance on the Jexs interaction because it was RVS and you again give me little by saying it's too early to lynch instead of waying in on Protean.

And I really don't dislike you. That disco game I jumped on you because I knew you would react. The claim was also unwieldy and looked highly suspect. I didn't give you much interaction and I didn't extend the day phase because I had a role that literally limited me to 100 words a phase. This post is over 100 words. You cannot play mafia in that fashion, especially in an extended scenario.

This is the quote I was talking about

 

[#HBC | Leviathan]

maybe; but im less inclined to believe that he's actually a vig since he botched his claim; he conveniently forgot to mention he's one-shot even though im pretty sure he said he was going to shoot you again if you weren't lynched today

I find this hilarious because I actually forgot to mention that I was one-shot in my initial claim, heh.

Town should keep this trend of one-shots in mind for the massclaim.

@#HBC | Ranmaru
@#HBC | JeXs

Whichever of you two lives until tomorrow need to vote for Bunzy in their first post. No questions asked. No hesitation. You will have had 2 entire Day phases and 45+ pages worth of information so do not let weak-willed townies and scum talk you out of it due to the stigma of throwing out a vote in LYLO. This will force Town to realize that Bunzy is scum when there is no alpha strike because they'll realize that you are the town-aligned player in the crossvote. This is my dying wish, and the best shot Town has of catching onto him.

 

[Gova]

wow wtf is wrong with both of you;

i should hammer you right now on principle

 

[#HBC | Leviathan]

Holy **** I go V/LA for a weekend to bro out with marshy and **** hits the ****ing fan

After reading murder's claim, this was my thought exactly.

This play gives me literally ZERO scum vibes. Is consistent with their M.O. all game, it doesn't come right up against deadline in an attempt to get a last minute swing, it doesn't come at a time where competing wagons were pushing Levi pressure into irrelevancy.

This was a move made by murder because they legitimately believe in the Levi lynch and think any other lynch is a ****ing mistake. Most of us might not agree with that, but I think it's pretty easy to recognize that that is the motivation behind murder's play here.

This tells me that what they're claiming happened either actually did happen, or they're making a gambit claim that they'll renege on tomorrow assuming Levi is lynched.

Unfortunately I'm having a really, really hard time figuring out what is actually going on. We already have one person claiming to be RB'd, and that's the very person who survived the alleged night shot. As has been mentioned, a jailing of Levi explains that perfectly, but Levi as a jailer pick N1 doesn't seem all that likely to me. Then again, if I was a jailer this game I would have had a tough time deciding the optimal N1 target in this game, so I'm not very confident in my ability to predict how that would've went down. 2 different roleblockers would be ludicrous so that's not worth considering IMO. Obviously one of them could be lying about their respective claim. I've already discussed at length how shady Levi's claim was and how it could easily be faked (albeit not without drawing significant attention to himself, a move that I've already discussed could be a worthy tradeoff depending on his role is he's scum). As I've mentioned though, BOTH of these slots have motivation to lie here. Murder for admittedly not very pro-town by play per se but what I read to be genuinely town motivated by the fact that the slot chose to do it in this manner. Levi has ample scum motivation, but again, I've already dedicated an entire post to that which I won't force you all to read yet again.

Between the two claims, I feel much, much better about Murders. This is probably colored by the fact that murder I think stands out as strongly townie slot by play. Even though a lot of slots don't want to admit it, I think many players here think this is the case. Obviously there is a lot of disagreement with the slot on its reads, but I don't think anyone has been very synced up on reads this game, period. That disagreement doesn't justify scumreads on the slot IMO.

Because I think murder is telling the truth here, this has raised another possibility in my mind. Are we dealing with an indy in Levi?

I hadn't considering this much before because indies seemed to be on the downtrend in pervasiveness for SWF games. But Rockin would certainly not hesitate to throw a possible indy into the mix. If Levi is a BP indy of some sort, that would perfectly explain murder's failed shot, and also would explain his incredibly survivalist playstyle. If Levi is an indy, he could LEGITIMATELY have had strong scum reads and be pushing them for legitimate town cred. We've considered him bussing a slot, like dabuz for example, but it could very well be the case that Levi as an indy actually IS scumhunting. Just not to help the town, but rather, secure the most solid town credit he possibly get. As an indy, especially one who is BP, you give zero ****s about how much scum hates you. You only want town to love you and adore you to remove your lynch as even a remote possibility. Of course, as such a role, your survival is paramount; you can't win if you die.

I'm not saying this absolutely what's going on, but right now its a possibility that strongly weighs in favor of believing the murderbush right now.

Also, I have an idea about what murderbush may be trying to do here with this claim. I don't want to say much else, but I want to see how it plays out and lynch murder today would snuff that out entirely. Murder just really shouldn't be in contention for the play today at all.

I wish this filter or whatever it is you called your whimsical bull**** in the early game had come off a lot sooner. I can actually read you when you post meaningful **** instead of *****ing about how we read you as scum for, ya know, posting nothing but whimsical bull**** all game, and then just playing it off like its some obviously town tell that only we don't get.

Just like a made fun of Zen for constantly saying "wahhhhhhhhh FF is scummy" over and over again in Monster without substantiating it when I said "lelelelel if I keep saying it it just makes it true amirite?", I feel the urge to do the exact same thing to you here. You just go "lel arcane's read on me is poop top kek that slot so scum for readin me this way" but literally make no effort to correct our read on you if we assume you are town. I don't get how you can act so surprised at our read when you seem to take pride in continuing to do what made us read you as scum, whilst laughing off our legitimate reaction to it.

As I've mentioned, I the frozen head haven't been as sold on you being the top play as Gheb is. He's pretty damn confident you're scum, and like I said, I don't blame him. If posts like this are what I can expect from bardull going forward, I'm less inclined to keep you in the top plays pool today. Especially considering murder's claim what follows from that.

w.r.t. Ami's case on Levi through interactions with werekill as it relates to Levi allegedly being Xonar, I think this pretty much sums up my reaction:

If werekill was going to react emotionally to Xonar getting outed as Levi, I don't think he would have the filter necessary to express his rage but at the same time mask the fact that he knew the answer to whether or not Xonar was in fact Levi. No offense Werekill, but I just see that happening.

Werekill's disdain toward the fact that someone was trying to out Levi's identity seems completely genuine to me in that it seemed like he was upset at the prospect that Levi's identify may have been outed in pursuit of pushing a lynch on him. He didn't seem like he was upset because he knew that the accuser was right and trying to profit it from it. But maybe Werekill is better at hiding what he actually knows than I'm giving him credit for. It just seems unlikely to me that someone who was so vehemently against revealing Levi's identity would have went ahead and checked Levi's IP on his own. If anything, that'd be awfully hypocritical.

Overall Im really starting to think that Levi is becoming the best play. Not necessarily by his play, but for the fact that there exists a lot of murkiness with the slot thanks to the claims surrounding it, and the fact that literally every slot in this game has taken a stance on the slot. Different Levi flips give us a lot to work with. If he flips town or indy we obviously look into his scum picks. Bunzy for example should be on the chopping block immediately upon a town or indy flip IMO. Upon re-read I'm more and more convinced that that's not an SvS bus relationship unless Levi flips some ****ing godlike scum role that was desperate to survive one more day phase (i.e. one shot hitman, yakuza, or something similar).

I'm not gonna drop hammer without going over my thoughts with Gheb first since I've left him out to dry during the entirety of my V/LA and I haven't been able to get him up to speed on my thought process yet.

Also hmu if there's **** I missed that needs talking about before potential hammer. There's still a lot of **** that I need to sort out, notably Gova and Kanty's slots who I've paid far too little attention to this game.

****kkkk I knew I forgot to do something

not ignoring, forgetting. though I understand that that obviously feels the same to you. my b

Alright, I absolutely see where you're coming from now. Putting all those posts next to each other like you did reallllllly clarifies what you're getting at. At face value, there is definitely a lack of clear dback and forth between murder and were on the topic of whether quicklynching has value. Here's the thing, I think you're oversimplifying the murder - were exchange a bit and thats what makes this feel a little reachy to me.

[quote="Ryker']I said I want to and not that I'm going to. You need to start avoiding the multiple places where you're standing in the way of progress, intentional or no. You started with your lack of substance on the Jexs interaction because it was RVS and you again give me little by saying it's too early to lynch instead of waying in on Protean.

And I really don't dislike you. That disco game I jumped on you because I knew you would react. The claim was also unwieldy and looked highly suspect. I didn't give you much interaction and I didn't extend the day phase because I had a role that literally limited me to 100 words a phase. This post is over 100 words. You cannot play mafia in that fashion, especially in an extended scenario.

I think the second paragraph here is what makes why Ryker says relevant to the idea of quicklynching. He basically tells werekill to not take the fact that he was quicklynched by Ryker in the disco room game personally or as indicative of how constructive a quick D1 lynch can be because he [Ryker] was playing under extraordinary circumstances (only being able to post 100 words a phase). Assuming I'm understand this correctly (I actually have no idea what happened in that disco room game so I could be completely wrong here), I think Ryker's statement here is much more related to the argument for why quick lynching isn't always a bad idea than you are giving it credit for. Granted, it's very subtle and obviously doesn't stand out to non-involved parties. Saying "don't let your own personal bad experience color your judgement w.r.t. quicklynching", which is functionally why ryker did, could certainly be a persuasive argument when the person you're dealing with (werekill) had what was a presumably bad and emotionally upsetting experience in this disco game, considering werekill has said that he literally thought ryker had a personal problem with him after having that experience. Maybe Im reading into it too much though.

But to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, are you arguing that this is scumwere initially was trying to argue against a QL just to look like early game brownie townie arguing for text book precautionary ****, and then when he sensed that he wasn't going to win that argument with the loud slots he faked being convinced to avoid scrutiny and/or join their wagon?[/quote]Who is scum?

 

[Lore]

I'm not sure if I follow your reasoning, Levi. Why is it so important for a vote to be thrown down at the very beginning?

 

[#HBC | Leviathan]

EBWOP:

Holy **** I go V/LA for a weekend to bro out with marshy and **** hits the ****ing fan
After reading murder's claim, this was my thought exactly.
This play gives me literally ZERO scum vibes. Is consistent with their M.O. all game, it doesn't come right up against deadline in an attempt to get a last minute swing, it doesn't come at a time where competing wagons were pushing Levi pressure into irrelevancy.

This was a move made by murder because they legitimately believe in the Levi lynch and think any other lynch is a ****ing mistake. Most of us might not agree with that, but I think it's pretty easy to recognize that that is the motivation behind murder's play here.

This tells me that what they're claiming happened either actually did happen, or they're making a gambit claim that they'll renege on tomorrow assuming Levi is lynched.

Unfortunately I'm having a really, really hard time figuring out what is actually going on. We already have one person claiming to be RB'd, and that's the very person who survived the alleged night shot. As has been mentioned, a jailing of Levi explains that perfectly, but Levi as a jailer pick N1 doesn't seem all that likely to me. Then again, if I was a jailer this game I would have had a tough time deciding the optimal N1 target in this game, so I'm not very confident in my ability to predict how that would've went down. 2 different roleblockers would be ludicrous so that's not worth considering IMO. Obviously one of them could be lying about their respective claim. I've already discussed at length how shady Levi's claim was and how it could easily be faked (albeit not without drawing significant attention to himself, a move that I've already discussed could be a worthy tradeoff depending on his role is he's scum). As I've mentioned though, BOTH of these slots have motivation to lie here. Murder for admittedly not very pro-town by play per se but what I read to be genuinely town motivated by the fact that the slot chose to do it in this manner. Levi has ample scum motivation, but again, I've already dedicated an entire post to that which I won't force you all to read yet again.

Between the two claims, I feel much, much better about Murders. This is probably colored by the fact that murder I think stands out as strongly townie slot by play. Even though a lot of slots don't want to admit it, I think many players here think this is the case. Obviously there is a lot of disagreement with the slot on its reads, but I don't think anyone has been very synced up on reads this game, period. That disagreement doesn't justify scumreads on the slot IMO.

Because I think murder is telling the truth here, this has raised another possibility in my mind. Are we dealing with an indy in Levi?
I hadn't considering this much before because indies seemed to be on the downtrend in pervasiveness for SWF games. But Rockin would certainly not hesitate to throw a possible indy into the mix. If Levi is a BP indy of some sort, that would perfectly explain murder's failed shot, and also would explain his incredibly survivalist playstyle. If Levi is an indy, he could LEGITIMATELY have had strong scum reads and be pushing them for legitimate town cred. We've considered him bussing a slot, like dabuz for example, but it could very well be the case that Levi as an indy actually IS scumhunting. Just not to help the town, but rather, secure the most solid town credit he possibly get. As an indy, especially one who is BP, you give zero ****s about how much scum hates you. You only want town to love you and adore you to remove your lynch as even a remote possibility. Of course, as such a role, your survival is paramount; you can't win if you die.
I'm not saying this absolutely what's going on, but right now its a possibility that strongly weighs in favor of believing the murderbush right now.

Also, I have an idea about what murderbush may be trying to do here with this claim. I don't want to say much else, but I want to see how it plays out and lynch murder today would snuff that out entirely. Murder just really shouldn't be in contention for the play today at all.
I wish this filter or whatever it is you called your whimsical bull**** in the early game had come off a lot sooner. I can actually read you when you post meaningful **** instead of *****ing about how we read you as scum for, ya know, posting nothing but whimsical bull**** all game, and then just playing it off like its some obviously town tell that only we don't get.

Just like a made fun of Zen for constantly saying "wahhhhhhhhh FF is scummy" over and over again in Monster without substantiating it when I said "lelelelel if I keep saying it it just makes it true amirite?", I feel the urge to do the exact same thing to you here. You just go "lel arcane's read on me is poop top kek that slot so scum for readin me this way" but literally make no effort to correct our read on you if we assume you are town. I don't get how you can act so surprised at our read when you seem to take pride in continuing to do what made us read you as scum, whilst laughing off our legitimate reaction to it.

As I've mentioned, I the frozen head haven't been as sold on you being the top play as Gheb is. He's pretty damn confident you're scum, and like I said, I don't blame him. If posts like this are what I can expect from bardull going forward, I'm less inclined to keep you in the top plays pool today. Especially considering murder's claim what follows from that.

w.r.t. Ami's case on Levi through interactions with werekill as it relates to Levi allegedly being Xonar, I think this pretty much sums up my reaction:

If werekill was going to react emotionally to Xonar getting outed as Levi, I don't think he would have the filter necessary to express his rage but at the same time mask the fact that he knew the answer to whether or not Xonar was in fact Levi. No offense Werekill, but I just see that happening.

Werekill's disdain toward the fact that someone was trying to out Levi's identity seems completely genuine to me in that it seemed like he was upset at the prospect that Levi's identify may have been outed in pursuit of pushing a lynch on him. He didn't seem like he was upset because he knew that the accuser was right and trying to profit it from it. But maybe Werekill is better at hiding what he actually knows than I'm giving him credit for. It just seems unlikely to me that someone who was so vehemently against revealing Levi's identity would have went ahead and checked Levi's IP on his own. If anything, that'd be awfully hypocritical.

Overall Im really starting to think that Levi is becoming the best play. Not necessarily by his play, but for the fact that there exists a lot of murkiness with the slot thanks to the claims surrounding it, and the fact that literally every slot in this game has taken a stance on the slot. Different Levi flips give us a lot to work with. If he flips town or indy we obviously look into his scum picks. Bunzy for example should be on the chopping block immediately upon a town or indy flip IMO. Upon re-read I'm more and more convinced that that's not an SvS bus relationship unless Levi flips some ****ing godlike scum role that was desperate to survive one more day phase (i.e. one shot hitman, yakuza, or something similar).

I'm not gonna drop hammer without going over my thoughts with Gheb first since I've left him out to dry during the entirety of my V/LA and I haven't been able to get him up to speed on my thought process yet.

Also hmu if there's **** I missed that needs talking about before potential hammer. There's still a lot of **** that I need to sort out, notably Gova and Kanty's slots who I've paid far too little attention to this game.

****kkkk I knew I forgot to do something
not ignoring, forgetting. though I understand that that obviously feels the same to you. my b

Alright, I absolutely see where you're coming from now. Putting all those posts next to each other like you did reallllllly clarifies what you're getting at. At face value, there is definitely a lack of clear dback and forth between murder and were on the topic of whether quicklynching has value. Here's the thing, I think you're oversimplifying the murder - were exchange a bit and thats what makes this feel a little reachy to me.

[quote="Ryker']I said I want to and not that I'm going to. You need to start avoiding the multiple places where you're standing in the way of progress, intentional or no. You started with your lack of substance on the Jexs interaction because it was RVS and you again give me little by saying it's too early to lynch instead of waying in on Protean.

And I really don't dislike you. That disco game I jumped on you because I knew you would react. The claim was also unwieldy and looked highly suspect. I didn't give you much interaction and I didn't extend the day phase because I had a role that literally limited me to 100 words a phase. This post is over 100 words. You cannot play mafia in that fashion, especially in an extended scenario.

I think the second paragraph here is what makes why Ryker says relevant to the idea of quicklynching. He basically tells werekill to not take the fact that he was quicklynched by Ryker in the disco room game personally or as indicative of how constructive a quick D1 lynch can be because he [Ryker] was playing under extraordinary circumstances (only being able to post 100 words a phase). Assuming I'm understand this correctly (I actually have no idea what happened in that disco room game so I could be completely wrong here), I think Ryker's statement here is much more related to the argument for why quick lynching isn't always a bad idea than you are giving it credit for. Granted, it's very subtle and obviously doesn't stand out to non-involved parties. Saying "don't let your own personal bad experience color your judgement w.r.t. quicklynching", which is functionally why ryker did, could certainly be a persuasive argument when the person you're dealing with (werekill) had what was a presumably bad and emotionally upsetting experience in this disco game, considering werekill has said that he literally thought ryker had a personal problem with him after having that experience. Maybe Im reading into it too much though.

But to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, are you arguing that this is scumwere initially was trying to argue against a QL just to look like early game brownie townie arguing for text book precautionary ****, and then when he sensed that he wasn't going to win that argument with the loud slots he faked being convinced to avoid scrutiny and/or join their wagon?

Frozen, who is scum?

Also, do you plan on doing anything besides pandering to the power players at any point in this game?

 

[Gova]

because he only needs to convince 1 townie to vote in lylo for the scumteam to quicklynch obv /s

 

[Gova]

ebwop at @ Lore

 

[Lore]

because he only needs to convince 1 townie to vote in lylo for the scumteam to quicklynch obv /s

Oh, that makes sense. I don't think I've lived to LYLO before, so this is new to me.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Arcane, your understanding of my argument is correct. He had no reason to lynch protean at that time, but he was trying to subtly support it.

What Ryker was saying in the quote was that he didn't dislike werekill. We quick lynched Werekill in the disco, so Were thought he disliked him. Ryker was staying that he didn't lynch him because he disliked him, but because he had the 100 word limit. None of that was relevant to the benefits/disadvantages of quick lynching argument. That was its own conversion that sprouted from Werekill's assumption that Ryker didn't like him.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Werekill your extreme humility /over exaggeration if your noobness going to drive me crazy !

 

[Lore]

Werekill your extreme humility /over exaggeration if your noobness going to drive me crazy !

I really haven't lived to LYLO! Lol.

As for Ryker not liking me, I was misjudging him based on outside of game posts he had made. We're all cool now.

 

[Arcane Inferno]

Frozen, who is scum?

Also, do you plan on doing anything besides pandering to the power players at any point in this game?

You. If you are then probably werekill. If not, dabuz. Then there's scum among kanty, gova, bardull that I still need to figure out but obviously leaning bardull. Murder, ami and jex pretty town though ryker could be thoroughly playing me and my gut could be entirely wrong on jex. Zen's play from the ami slot is pretty obvtown.

I'm pandering to the power players? Are we reading the same game?

Not sure who exactly you're saying Im pandering to but if you're talking about the most vocal slots, namely you Ami and murder, then I guess Im doing a pretty ****ty job at it considering Im pretty sure Ive gotten **** from all of you this game lmao.

 

[JeXs]

Seems like I'm not going to get an answer

 

[JeXs]

I find this hilarious because I actually forgot to mention that I was one-shot in my initial claim, heh.

Town should keep this trend of one-shots in mind for the massclaim.

@#HBC | Ranmaru
@#HBC | JeXs

Whichever of you two lives until tomorrow need to vote for Bunzy in their first post. No questions asked. No hesitation. You will have had 2 entire Day phases and 45+ pages worth of information so do not let weak-willed townies and scum talk you out of it due to the stigma of throwing out a vote in LYLO. This will force Town to realize that Bunzy is scum when there is no alpha strike because they'll realize that you are the town-aligned player in the crossvote. This is my dying wish, and the best shot Town has of catching onto him.

I became hbc!

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Unvote

Ran is back and bringing up good points *sigh*

 

[#HBC | Leviathan]

You [Leviathan, are scum]. If not, dabuz.

Excellent!

Town, Arcane here has volunteered to be the second vote on Bunzy alongside whoever of Amidamaru/JeXs makes it through the night phase. This sets Town up quite well to succeed at least through tomorrow with Arcane and Bunzy being forced to argue with each other when no alpha strike happens.

 

[JeXs]

I'm still all for dabuz since murder does not want to reply to my question.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Vote: dabuz

 

[JeXs]

2 more to kill dabuz!

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Spirit Guide (A)

Ami
Gova
Bardull
Arcane
Potassium
JexS
Levi*
dabuz/Were/Murder


*Possible Indy

 

[Dramatic Flair]

Ran, what in gods name could you POSSIBLY be thinking to make you think this switch is at all sensible?

 

[JeXs]

Ran, what in gods name could you POSSIBLY be thinking to make you think this switch is at all sensible?

Please answer my question. Honestly. Do note that if you're town and you're lying we will lose the game.

 

[JeXs]

@ Gova
@Potassium
@ Arcane Inferno
@#HBC | Bunzy
Vote for Bunzy.

 

[BarDulL]

...

lel

JeXs, the vig claim was not true. MB was trying to force a you-or-me situation between himself and Levi so that he'd get the Levi lynch.

 

[JeXs]

...

lel

JeXs, the vig claim was not true. MB was trying to force a you-or-me situation between himself and Levi so that he'd get the Levi lynch.

It's a fake claim then?