Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

[Swiss]

Chop Chop vote count please

 

[Swiss]

Saturday at ~4am deadline [GMT]

So t minus 40 hours as if this post

 

[Rhand]

Rereading the part around the Wiisp's cop claim, we can safely exclude Shurian / FF as a team.
FF was handling that horribly. All he talked about was Wiisp's claim being fake and attacking Exlight for not agreeing with that.
Which is a good look for Exlight. Which mafia in their right mind would oppose lynching the claimed cop when Swiss / FF / (Gorf) were still open to lynching it? Exlight was very, very strong in his opinion of not lynching Wiisp and suspecting everyone who did want to lynch him.

Also, FF wanted a counterclaim on Wiisp before Day end, which would be ideal for mafia even if FF really believed Wiisp was lying (maybe he thought Wiisp was a werewolf)

Continuing the reread.

 

[Swiss]

Who will vote what

Swiss: Nerbins, Gellnick,
Gorf: Nerbins Gellnick
UP: Nerbins, Gellnick
Rhand: Nerbins, FF
Shur: FF, Swiss
Gellnick: Shur, Gorf
Whysper/Nerbins/TSU: Swiss, FF
FF:

I've missed out some FF sus as cbf searching but this is fairly accurate.

 

[Rhand]

Actually it's worse. FF's attacks are attacking bad play instead of scummy play.

 

[Rhand]

Huh FF's stance on me and Wiisp on Day 1 was all over the place. We're buddies, we're not buddies but one is pocketing the other (that's his defence when called out on what our strat as buddies would be) to literally " if I was right about rhand/wiisp being mates they may have mutually decided to chill on the open buddying if I spooked them for calling them on it " in #1039.

Town would remember the conclusion they went with. I am seriously convinced FF is mafia.

 

[Rhand]

Huh FF's stance on me and Wiisp on Day 1 was all over the place. We're buddies, we're not buddies but one is pocketing the other (that's his defence when called out on what our strat as buddies would be) to literally " if I was right about rhand/wiisp being mates they may have mutually decided to chill on the open buddying if I spooked them for calling them on it " in #1039.

Town would remember the conclusion they went with. I am seriously convinced FF is mafia.

In this same post, FF unvotes Wiisp and spends a whole paragraph explaining how Utopian is scum without voting there.

 

[Swiss]

UtopianPoyzin #HBC | Gorf

FF v Shur ?

 

[Rhand]

To be fair I think Rhand could actually be mafia here so I wouldn't be too distraught about it :/

Where does this read come from?

 

[Swiss]

Because you THROWING

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO FREAKING DO? JUST LOOK AROUND AND MAYBE ILL BLINDLY FOLLOW YOUR FIRST FIVE PAGES THEORY? IF TRAITOR SWISS WANTED TO CLING TO MAO AND EIDO ON THE VERY FIRST POST THATS PHENOMENALLY STUPID ON SWISS'S BEHALF. AND BESIDES, IT DIDNT EVEN WORK BECAUSE EIDO WAS SCUMREADING SWISS! SCUMREADING!!!#!!t!#^!# GIVEN THAT EIDO TRIED TO PROTECT MAO AS BEST HE COULD YOUD THINK HED TRY TO BACK UP THEIR ONE AND ONLY TRAITOR THAT TRIED TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THEM!!!

AND WHAT THEN?! HAVE SWISS SCREW HIMSELF OVER BY NOT TRYING TO SUBTLY REACH OUT TO THE MAFIA AS WELL? WWWWWWWWWWWHERE DO YOU THINK HE DID THAT? YOU CANT SOLVE WHO THE MAFIA ARE WITH THE TRAITORS READS IF YOU DONT EVEN KNOW WHO THE TRAITOR ISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!! THIS WHOLE CASE IS SO ****ING CONJECTURAL WHEN BLATANT SCUM IS SITTING IN FRONT OF US IN THE FORM OF GELLNICK AND NERBINS! I HAVE CALLED OUT BOTH OF THEIR HIGHLY PROBLEMATIC AND SUSPICIOUS POSTS, AND THE PRIMARY REASON TO SUSPECT SWISS AS TRAITOR IS BECAUSE HE HAD A READSLIST WHERE 2/4 EARLY READS ENDED UP BEING WEREWOLVES??!!!!!!!?!!?! THATS A ****TY TRAITOR PLAY FOR ANYONE TO MAKE, MUCH LESS SWISS. BUT MAYBE ILL FIGURE OUT IF I STOP THINKING AND JUST "LOOK" AT THE POSTS SOME MORE.

poyzin literally out here saying the words I’ve grown too tired to say

This post gives off the same vibe as swiss posts about mao being night kill bait for being very clearly a town PR. The stench coming off of it just reeks of being informed. Seems like Wisp was the only one to really call out the post this quote came from.

you have your cake and eat it too, Swiss and ff can’t be simultaneously informed about ww!mao. Which means your read on what looks informed or not is bad.

So. Day starts. Me and Shurian come with a Swiss / Gorff / FF worldbuild.
Swiss and Gorff obviously disagree.
Utopian fights it.
Tsumugi goes along with it.
Gellnick is in a world of his own.
FF doesn’t exist.

If the world build is wrong, logically mafia/traitor would do what Tsumugi did and help push it.
Fighting it as mafia only makes sense if one read in that trio is correct. Utopian is fighting the FF lynch and pushing a Gellnick lynch.
Utopian and Gellnick never scum together.

If Swiss and Gorff are indeed town, then occam’s razor points to Tsumugi traitor.
possible worlds:
Tsumugi / Utopian / FF
Tsumugi / Gellnick / FF

I can’t see any other viable worlds unless I am wrong about Shurian.

Swiss you think FF is wrong. Who is the third?

Right now, I think tsumugi is mafia based on whysper D1 interactions with/about mao and we’re living in tsumugi/ff + gellnick

That still leaves us 1 vote short, assuming Gorf UP vote Nerbins.

@#HBC | FrozeηFlame I'm trying to save you man, hurry up and win your trial.

gellnick It's you or Nerbins, who you voting for?

lynch is majority or plurality, so whoever has popular vote is lynched. If it’s tied, it’s randomized

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

UtopianPoyzin #HBC | Gorf

FF v Shur ?

I think shurian comes out on top in that, honestly reading eod1 back and thinking of the positions exlight takes throughout makes me take shurian off the table

 

[Swiss]

So FF is the only lynch that can get through toDay

 

[Rhand]

So FF is the only lynch that can get through toDay

Nerbins works too I think

 

[Swiss]

Let's get voting then

 

[Rhand]

Haven't made too much progress in reading since last night but I can give my thoughts on what I read so far. I like Gorf, Mao seems fine (a little surprised she survived but hey maybe a long play by the bads), haven't read too much by Frozen or you, haven't read anything by Poyzin, and while Chaco gave off some town vibes, they seemed pretty trusting of Eido without elaborating too much and Eido seemed to not give much of a stance on them, to the point of where I'm at right now they seem like their most likely partner, though I'm very much not certain. A bit below where you mentioned me I saw Swiss say they don't get the hate on them, and they might've said sooner why but if they didn't I'm curious as to why.
Wait piss seeing Gorf's post on Eido's reads and Chaco's on bottom, what happened

If this is the traitor, then his stance on Chaco would be very weird if Chaco is mafia. You never push a mafia over a werewolf when your wincon is to win with one of them and mafia is ahead.

So not Nerbins + Utopian most probably. But this is pretty flimsy, I need to read on and see if he does something with this read.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

vote: tsumugi

I feel like we should take the “no result” thing as wholly nai because apparently that vernacular is not unheard of with roleblocks (which is bull****, let me be clear. An action should fail if it’s roleblocked, they shouldn’t be able to leave their house and a tracker shouldn’t be able to track them. If traitor commutes, the cop should be able to leave their house to receive no result, and a tracker can see the cop visited x commuted person). That said, I think whysper and nerbins play is more than enough for me to think they’re scum, and I’m leaning thinking they’re mafia. Nerbins had a sense of comfort yesterDay. I think that came from knowing town was tryna lynch ww, and that he was NOT ww. I think he was quasi frozen because he was scum and didn’t really know how to get a proper footing in, just like noobscum does. And he’s a noob, even if he had the sporadic experience he said he has. This is the best bet we have for a scum flip

 

[Swiss]

Well if toDay is Nerbins vs FF I'm keeping my vote on Nerbins slot.

 

[Rhand]

If you're town, I think they're both hits. Please be town.

 

[Rhand]

Yeah but one of the goons is dead so they probably became goon to replace them

Nerbins is never mafia though. If he's scum, he's the traitor. Do we really want to lynch the traitor?
Actually, maybe we should. The mafia Night kills will tighten our POE.
My first idea was that it's a waste of a lynch, but we'll be in forever mylo anyways and lynching the traitor first forces mafia to kill twice.
I think all of us are still in various POE's, so having anyone killed helps us to narrow it down.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

i actually forgot about this

I think that’s a good point, but at the same time he said that’s something he’s used to. That tells me there’s enough reasonable doubt for him to have just operated with that assumption as mafia until he said that. At that point, though, it’s semantics and he still points to scum for me. I’d rather solve further when there’s a flip

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Right now, I'm nullreading Tsumugi - I'm not very fast at getting good reads, but I do think they're unlikely to be Mafia for sure. I haven't ruled out the possibility that they are traitor, though.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YOU WERE JUST SCUMREADING THEM AND STILL DIDN'T EXPLAIN WHERE THE TOWN READ BEFORE PAGE 56 CAME FROM ASLGDJSDGHASDL

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Don't let this distract you from the fact that the most important thing I want to know is your town read on Nerbins all the way up to page 56. This is the most important bit that I want to hear from you. From there, I'm completely negating the fact that you are now scumreading Tsumugi based on 5 posts when Nerbins was one of your only two town reads, I'd like to know where Tsumugi falls in the scumpool for you compared to your other scumreads.

This switch is grimy af. Remember that these two gellnick quotes are only separated by one, at #2242

gellnick gellnick gellnick Please respond to both of these posts, and tell me whether or not my thoughts are justified.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Yes, I have read the thread.

Alright that can't be true. You say that you read the thread but you clearly didn't read where I consolidated all of the questions that I wanted to answer, but if you read the thread then that means you're deliberately ignoring them.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Why gellnick over other avenues? Explain to me what makes him the safest play, which btw safest play is always lynching the traitor just an FYI.

UtopianPoyzin Who is partnered with Gell, if you say me ill slap you.

View attachment 302682

Because Gellnick is the traitor

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

This is all wifom.

THEN WHY IS HE TRAITOR FOR ITTTTTTT

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I am town vanilla -.-

That's what they all say

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

The part of your post I am talking about is “The very slight pushback against a gellnick exe is giving me all the more motivation to know that this is the right call here.”
The same was true for FF. Only Swiss and now you.

No. Nononononono tjhat is NOT how this is working.

8 people sit around a round table, motionless. One of them is named Joe. One person says "Joe is scum". Everybody says "Yes" simultaneously. They return to being silent. One hour passes. Two hours pass. "Surely, Joe can't be scum because of this". You say "Well then you must be pushing back against it".

We've already came and gone with FF. We've had 3 days and most people have generally been good with an FF lynch, I don't think anybody actually townread him, he was always low null and a valid lynch option. You don't just get to negate the 2 days where he's always been on the table. In the past, gellnick was thought to be much more favorable and even now there is significant more pushback on the gellnick exe. I think he's traitor, but I think there's a possibility of him randomly being mafia. In any event, it's a super safe bet. FF isn't even here and there's a rule of thumb that if you lynch every inactive you'll hit mafia last (in games with multiple inactives). In any event, FF's chances should be a 3/7 chance of flipping scum, unless you can actually site for me scummy posts he made and actually explain them. But he's absolutely not an option in my head until he returns, and while it sucks it just happens to be the reality we live in.

Sorry for the bad example. The reason why I'm "pushing back" is because nobody was for the longest time. You can't just forget about the time where he was perpetually on the bottom and everybody agreed about that. He's still a null read for me because of a lack of readable content but Gellnick is still the scummiest person in the game and he still isn't actually responding to the main questions I asked, despite feigning that he is all caught up.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

No. Nononononono tjhat is NOT how this is working.

Well tbh I guess this is mafia so never mind your standpoint is understandable ;-;

I just think its unfair because its very selective in the sense that I don't prefer a FF lynch now after all this time and its forgetting the entirety of the game not townreading him.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I think its definitely worth considering the possibility that there are scum within both of the "two factions" and that this "it's both of them or both of us" guise is pretty low brain. I want a gellnick lynch more than anything right now but will settle for nerbins, but please we cannot flub this if the game continues

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Does nobody care about anything I've said about gellnick holy ****

I know that there's nobody here right now but I think it's super solid yet everybody is just pretending it doesn't exist, please tell me why gellnick is town here ty.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

So. Day starts. Me and Shurian come with a Swiss / Gorff / FF worldbuild.
Swiss and Gorff obviously disagree.
Utopian fights it.
Tsumugi goes along with it.
Gellnick is in a world of his own.
FF doesn’t exist.

If the world build is wrong, logically mafia/traitor would do what Tsumugi did and help push it.
Fighting it as mafia only makes sense if one read in that trio is correct. Utopian is fighting the FF lynch and pushing a Gellnick lynch.
Utopian and Gellnick never scum together.

If Swiss and Gorff are indeed town, then occam’s razor points to Tsumugi traitor.
possible worlds:
Tsumugi / Utopian / FF
Tsumugi / Gellnick / FF

I can’t see any other viable worlds unless I am wrong about Shurian.

Swiss you think FF is wrong. Who is the third?

Here I thought I could really on you being the sane one, I guess I was wrong if you even remotely see a world where Utopia is scum or I am traitor. The only world where I am traitor is the world where I commuted n1 which unless we see the mafia PR I still have no idea what happened n1.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Does nobody care about anything I've said about gellnick holy ****

I know that there's nobody here right now but I think it's super solid yet everybody is just pretending it doesn't exist, please tell me why gellnick is town here ty.

Safest options are still FF and the traitor that's why, I refuse to branch off anywhere else in mylo. Its a risky game your trying to play.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

you have your cake and eat it too, Swiss and ff can’t be simultaneously informed about ww!mao. Which means your read on what looks informed or not is bad.

They can both be informed, swiss would just have more information because he knew both teams from the start.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Because Gellnick is the traitor

How is gellnick the traitor? It would have to be me that's the traitor in your world if you think swiss isn't it, because traitor would be the only thing that explains why I wasn't cop checked on n1.

Why are you overlooking this.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

That's what they all say

...I
poyzin I'll scold u after this game just you wait lol.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

If its just going to be me vs FF might as well vote now.

vote: frozenflame

Chop Chop

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

How is gellnick the traitor? It would have to be me that's the traitor in your world if you think swiss isn't it, because traitor would be the only thing that explains why I wasn't cop checked on n1.

Why are you overlooking this.

Well how about "why would it be Swiss here" if you were the one checked by the cop, and why does that not extend to gellnick.

I think gellnick is scum. I don't currently believe he has a teammate, which means he must be traitor. How did you play mafia before?

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Mind you if I die here if mafia shoot town game just ends in mafia victory. So unless your betting on some world view where the mafia accidentally shoot the traitor I suggest FF.