Luigi's Smash 4 Guide? (Will keep updating)

Yonder

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Seems Luigi has a KO combo of D-throw -> N-air. KOs floaty characters around 120% and everyone else around 130% for the most part. The tricky part is that you need to be swift about nailing the n-air, since your opponent doesn't have that much hitstun for you to get that finisher. If you're too slow, then your opponent will air dodge or use a quick aerial as a combo breaker.
Possible, but I'm pretty sure that nair has to be super fresh for that to work. Since a lot of Luigis use nair for combos, I don't know how viable this is.

I have a question how come back throw isn't listed as a kill option? It seems to kill reliably at 110-120 on different characters.
Really? Huh. I've never ever been able to kill till 140+ and above with it. Even that was barely reliable too. I'm guessing it was right at the edge and fresh?
 

Nabbitnator

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Possible, but I'm pretty sure that nair has to be super fresh for that to work. Since a lot of Luigis use nair for combos, I don't know how viable this is.



Really? Huh. I've never ever been able to kill till 140+ and above with it. Even that was barely reliable too. I'm guessing it was right at the edge and fresh?
Yeah I usually use that move at the edge and save it to keep it fresh.
 

Sparky15

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Possible, but I'm pretty sure that nair has to be super fresh for that to work. Since a lot of Luigis use nair for combos, I don't know how viable this is.
I meant a clean n-air for it to have enough knockback, not a late n-air.
 

Sparky15

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And it has been working a lot on random players online. Like I previosly mentioned, its hard to land the clean n-air, especially if your opponent DIs out of it. I don't know, it could be the equivalent of Diddy Kong and R.O.B.s' D-throw -> Up-air KO combo.
 

Luigi-man

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Luigi's recovery isn't that bad. If you jump while you charge the green missile, you'll get an insane amount of vertical recovery.
 

BSL

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Nope. While charging the green missile, your gravity is lower. So you rise higher.
 
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I would definitely like to see your input, Mr. Con Con and I watched your stream a couple of times. Also, b-throw is a kill option for Luigi and I be getting kills around the 140s or higher area tho, I should list it in the guide tho.
 

ThunderSt0rm

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Glad that there's something I can reference and cross check with data I gather for when I start hard learning move info for my own learning. Guide looks solid.

Cyclone deserves more credit than it currently has. I should have clips together tomorrow for a video detailing how to guarantee dthrow>cyclone kills after I have Luigisama help me out.

EDIT: I'm actually going to postpone the video until Thursday so that I have access to a capture card.
 
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BlueBirdE

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This thread needs to be stickied with all the input that has been put into it
 

Yonder

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Glad that there's something I can reference and cross check with data I gather for when I start hard learning move info for my own learning. Guide looks solid.

Cyclone deserves more credit than it currently has. I should have clips together tomorrow for a video detailing how to guarantee dthrow>cyclone kills after I have Luigisama help me out.

EDIT: I'm actually going to postpone the video until Thursday so that I have access to a capture card.
I've been saying forever cyclone is an amazing move for it's approach ability along with killing...so much that making the choice between that and mach cyclone is near impossible.
 

Wa_Black

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I would definitely like to see your input, Mr. Con Con and I watched your stream a couple of times. Also, b-throw is a kill option for Luigi and I be getting kills around the 140s or higher area tho, I should list it in the guide tho.
You should also start listing punishes. I would exponentially better if I knew optimal punishes vs. various characters.
 

TTTTTsd

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I think this guide could use the addition of soft Nair combos. They're pretty big. Work at 100% and up usually, don't always kill but you can convert into basically any aerial off of a high % soft hit Nair.
 

ThunderSt0rm

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I've been saying forever cyclone is an amazing move for it's approach ability along with killing...so much that making the choice between that and mach cyclone is near impossible.
My comments were assuming when customs aren't legal since that seems to have become the standard. If customs were legal I'd use Mach Cyclone 100% of the time.
 
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Donyoku

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This thread needs to be stickied with all the input that has been put into it
Definitely a advocate of that! This guide has the most information about Luigi currently and is the most active guide. I think it should be stickied as well.
 

Maître Luigi

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New data for D-Throw -> Up-B (3DS -> Wii U change):

Mario - 99% -> 93%
Luigi - 94% (*) -> 88%
Peach - 89% -> 83%
Bowser - 112% (**) -> 106% (**)
Yoshi - 99% -> 93%
Rosalina & Luma - 83% -> 78%
Koopalings - 103% -> 97%
Wario - 106% -> 100%
Mr. Game & Watch - 80% -> 75%
Donkey Kong - 117% -> 110%
Diddy Kong - 100% -> 94%
Link - 105% -> 98%
Zelda - 89% -> 84%
Sheik - 89% -> 83%
Ganondorf - 108% -> 101%
Toon Link - 93% -> 87%
Samus - 102% -> 96%
Zero-Suit Samus - 90% -> 85%
Pit - 98% -> 92%
Palutena - 90% -> 84%
Marth - 98% -> 92%
Ike - 108% -> 102%
Robin - 98% -> 92%
Kirby - 82% -> 77%
King Dedede - 124% -> 117%
Meta Knight - 89% -> 84%
Little Mac - 96% -> 91%
Fox - 88% -> 83%
Falco - 92% -> 87%
Pikachu - 87% -> 82%
Charizard - 104% -> 98%
Lucario - 102% -> 97%
Jigglypuff - 74% -> 69%
Greninja - 93% -> 87%
Duck Hunt - 100% -> 95%
R.O.B. - 106% -> 100%
Ness - 94% -> 89%
Captain Falcon - 108% -> 102%
Villager - 90% ->
Olimar/ Alph - 87% -> 81%
Wii Fit Trainer - 93% -> 97%
Dr. Mario - 99% -> 93%
Dark Pit - 98% -> 92%
Lucina - 98% -> 92%
Shulk - 102% -> 96%
Pac-Man - 97% -> 91%
Mega Man - 108% -> 102%
Sonic - 97% -> 91%
Mii(s) - 98% -> 92%

This is a direct effect of the blast zones being significantly smaller in the Wii U version compared to the 3DS version.
 
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GreenFlame

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New data for D-Throw -> Up-B (3DS -> Wii U change):

This is a direct effect of the blast zones being significantly smaller in the Wii U version compared to the 3DS version.
Why are the blast zones different? Does anybody know?
 

GreenFlame

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When Nintendo ported the game to home consoles they changed certain aspects of the game including boundaries, stages, etc.
I don't think it's technically a port, but anyway. I thought the gameplay was meant to be almost identical between versions? Maybe they plan on patching the 3DS version to be the same.

Either way, that d-throw to up-b kill data is very useful. Is the listed percentages when it kills starting with the d-throw, or after it?
 

BlueBirdE

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Im gonna start collecting data on d-throw down b kill percents. That has been the most reliable kill method for me lately and it's not as risky. I'm still hoping someone sees this thread to sticky it.
 

hey_there

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We have frame data for the guide now!

http://smashboards.com/threads/complete-hitbox-frame-data-for-every-character-round-2.383550/

We already knew things like angled up fsmash has the most knockback followed by angled down fsmash, which has slightly more knockback than angled forward fsmash. But I didn't know that the second hit of dsmash has more knockback than the first. In fact, it has more knockback than sweet spot usmash!

Other things I learned: Dair spike has a one frame window and does 2% more damage. Sweet spot bair has more knockback than sweet spot usmash. Usmash has invincibility frames on Luigi's head during the active frames, which is cool. Upb 2 has only slightly more knockback when landed on the ground than upb 1 has when landed in the air (god that move sucks). Speaking of the shoryuken it is ... NOT the attack with highest knockback. It's the third, after missile 1 and 2 misfires.
 

BlueBirdE

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Knockback on 2nd part of d-air is my interest. Anyone thinking about perfect lpivoting into a reverse dsmash? With this frame data its a good idea to note all punishes luigi can do on shield and perfect shield.
 

ThunderSt0rm

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Im gonna start collecting data on d-throw down b kill percents. That has been the most reliable kill method for me lately and it's not as risky. I'm still hoping someone sees this thread to sticky it.
PM me your findings if you started on this yet. I was going to make a thread for my video tonight and planned to update it with kill percents as a followup to the video.
 

BlueBirdE

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PM me your findings if you started on this yet. I was going to make a thread for my video tonight and planned to update it with kill percents as a followup to the video.
I will get you those numbers soon i got occupied. Im going to do all the legal stages.

On another note I went back to experimentingthe hitboxes for luigi in this game and found a kill combo on fox from 36-44%. Dthrow, short hop, wait a split second, dair spike, weak n-air to grounded up b. Registered 4 hit combo. Im going to be labbing hard the next couple of days and see what else i can find.
 
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Alrighty, lemme update this, thank you Maitre Luigi and Wa_Block, since this is the beginning of Smash 4, I will definitely have that in check once we explore more with Luigi and we rarely know matchups with him unless someone starts up a matchup discussion.

Edit: Can you guys kill with Luigi's B-throw?
 
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Sparky15

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So... does Luigi Cyclone have stronger knockback at the lower half of his body? Because during Luigi dittos recently, he killed me when I was on the ground and we were both around 70%. So it can't be the Rage Effect drastically increasing the knockback. Even the game expected it to kill with the red lightning. I'm so confused!
 

TriTails

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Luigi's B-throw DOES kill. At around 120 - 130%. Near the edge.

So... does Luigi Cyclone have stronger knockback at the lower half of his body? Because during Luigi dittos recently, he killed me when I was on the ground and we were both around 70%. So it can't be the Rage Effect drastically increasing the knockback. Even the game expected it to kill with the red lightning. I'm so confused!
This is new to me. I never be able to kill with the Cyclone on the ground until like 200%.
 

Sparky15

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This is new to me. I never be able to kill with the Cyclone on the ground until like 200%.
The opposing Luigi was above me as he hit me, while I was on the ground. He was pretty much on top of me in midair. I REALLY wish I had a way of showing that match, as I do have the replay saved, just no way of posting it right now.
 

Sparky15

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Oh, and for more info, I was at 90%, while he was at 71%. I should test this right now...

EDIT: Meant 79% instead if 71%. Oops.
 
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Sparky15

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Now I'm really clueless. Tried that scenario five times by now, and no red lightning nor me being launched high enough to be seen by the magnifying glass. I even tried DIing away and towards the knockback and nothing happens.
 

TriTails

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Okay, the Cyclone killing at 90% on the ground is a bit.... wierd.

I managed to KO a Jiggly with Luigi Cyclone. She is at 120% while.... I am sure I'm still not in rage effect. The Cyclone hovered just above the ground, and there is the red lighting.

3DS version, what version do you use?
 

TriTails

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Wii U has lower BZ, so it's starting to make sense.

This also happened to me, hear me out.

I was fighting Cap'n Falcon, and he wasn't in rage effect or anything, yet manages to KO me with Raptor Boost at 80%, red lighting.

Second stock, I was at 100%, and he Raptor Boost'd me again, it it barely KOed me, no red lighting or rage.

So, where is the logic in this?
 

Sparky15

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SSB4 just seems nonsensical in general, regardless of the version. Also, what does BZ stand for?
 

Sparky15

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Now I just KO'd a Sheik at 79% without any rage on me... Then I did it again while she was at 102% without any rage, either. Both KOs cause red lightning to flash. I swear Luigi's up-smash KOs charcters around the height of Sheik at significantly higher percents. Does Luigi just have some sort of game breaking rare-to-come-across mechanic that lets him KO opponents at a much lower percentage than usual? Or is this starting to gradually get more ridiculous?
 
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Btw, I'ma add D-smash onto the killing list, the back of Luigi's d-smash kills once again. I seen Boss did it. Also, I seen Boss killing a character with D-throw to Luigi's Cyclone too so I wonder if I should add that onto the list too?
 
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