Luigi Stage Discussion!

[TheMike]

Luigi Stage Discussion!​

Let's make an attemp for Stage Discussions. I hope to get good information with these discussions. We will start from the neutral stages, which will be followed by the couterpick ones. So yeah, how to discuss? I recommend the following, but discuss the way you feel more comfortable, obviously:

Advantages for Luigi
Disadvantages for Luigi
Who do we bring here?
Who do we ban this against?



[collapse=Final Destination]Final Destination!

Advantages for Luigi
FD has a great size for spacing yourself with Aerials and Specials(Neutral and Down B). There isn't many things here, it isn't a very good stage, but it isn't so bad, neither.

Disadvantages for Luigi
Easier to get camped by characters like Falco.

Who do we bring here?
Donkey Kong. It's not one of the best options, but the use of the Neutral B on FD will make DK think before approaching.

Who do we ban this against?
Falco(reason already mentioned) and Ice Climbers. The latter because they can have an easier time to get a grab, and for being able to space well using desynched Dowb/Neutral B.[/collapse]


[collapse=Battledield]Battlefield!

Advantages for Luigi
Platforms in some specific cases. I like them and I think they are useful for Luigi to get aerials by shield poking and juggling opponents. e.g.: Dthrow below the platform on low % > Uair(opponent shields) > Jump > Fair > Nair > ...

Disadvantages for Luigi
Platforms can be good, but they can also be bad. e.g.: Marth using his ****ing aerials!

Who do we bring here?
ROB. It's probably Luigi's best neutral option vs ROB, that sucks on BF for being easily juggled when above a platform.

Who do we ban this against?
Marth, Meta Knight and Donkey Kong. All of them can make a better use of the platforms than Luigi does.[/collapse]


[collapse=Smashville]Smashville!

Advantages for Luigi
Scroog. Ledge drop > green missile > JRC > ledge grab on other side.

Disadvantages for Luigi
Small size? Yeah, there isn't much space for Luigi to use his Neutral B like he can do so on Final Destination.

Who do we bring here?
Smashville is a stage that you would bring characters to it only if you feel comfortable for not having something significant to a give you a advantage. I would say Diddy Kong is a good character to take to Smasville for things being more difficult for him to combo Luigi with his Banana's set ups.

Who do we ban this against?
Marth can make a very good pressure game(SHDF, SH Fair > Uair, ...) against Luigi, who will have difficulties to avoid this type of game because of the stage's size.[/collapse]


[collapse=Yoshi's Island]Yoshi's Island!

Advantages for Luigi
No bottom stage. Which means that characters such as Meta Knight will not gimp Luigi so easy.

Disadvantages for Luigi
The ceiling is quite high, which can give Luigi a hard time killing, but it isn't something really bad because Luigi has good KO options not only horizontally, but also vertically.

Who do we bring here?
It's one of the best stages against Meta Knight among the neutrals(reason already mentioned on the "Advantages for Luigi" section).

Who do we ban this against?
Characters with bad recoveries such as Wolf and Link because they won't get gimped so easy.[/collapse]


[collapse=Pokémon Stadium 1]Pokémon Stadium 1!

Advantages for Luigi
There isn't many things to be said on the start transformation. Luigi has great space for either defensive(Neutral Bs), or offensive[Down Bs and Aerials(platforms <3)] games. On the other transformations, you should play smart by using jabs for your opponent to bounce then to follow with a Up B.

Disadvantages for Luigi
The ledge. It really bothers Luigi's recovery(Up B and Down B coming from the bottom).

Who do we bring here?
Meta Knight is fine. It's like FD but with platforms he can get stuck on.

Who do we ban this against?
Hmmm, Snake! Yeah, he ca do some amazing camping(nades!) game here. Besides, it's difficult for Luigi to see where there are mines and C4 on some transformations like the fire one.[/collapse]


[collapse=Lylat Cruise]Lylat Cruise!

Advantages for Luigi
Platforms. They make Luigi able to juggle and combo his opponents better than usual.

Disadvantages for Luigi
Luigi's recovery isn't so bad, but sometimes things may turn difficult on this stage.

Who do we bring here?
Characters with bad recoveries, such as Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, Falco, Wolf, Ness, Lucas, C.Falcon, Olimar, Ike and Diddy Kong.

Who do we ban this against?
Marth and G&W make a better use of the platforms than Luigi, especially Marth which has the Fair that makes Luigi slides whether he shields. And Snake because he can hide his C4 and land mines around the platforms and on the platforms. Besides, it can be hard to see nades sometimes on Lylat.[/collapse]


[collapse=Halberd]Halberd!

Advantages for Luigi
Low ceiling. Yeah, Luigi kills earlier than usual here with his Fsmash, Usmash and Up B. He can also recovery with Side B by coming from the bottom of the stage. Its platform help Luigi to get some aerials well space, too.

Disadvantages for Luigi
There isn't any disadvantage. Against some character with a good kill potential, the low ceiling can be a disadvantage.

Who do we bring here?
Any character but Snake, Fox and G&W.

Who do we ban this against
The ones listed above mainly because of the loe ceiling and their kill potential.[/collapse]


[collapse=Castle Siege]Castle Siege!

Advantages for Luigi

We can juggle about anyone on the 1st part thanks to the weird platforms. The shape of it is good against Falco and Diddy as long as you're keeping the control of the left part.
The second part stops most projectiles, except pikmins and ROB's lazors. We have quite a lot of moves that become killmoves there. Jab cancelling jab1 into jab1 on statues refresh your moves really quickly, and the fact that it's a walkoff makes our bthrow a bit better. The ceiling's high there, so we can keep our usmash fresh for the third part. That 3rd part can either be really good, or really bad. The sloped floor helps us a bit (sliding techniques are better on it), and the free space can be abused to approach and juggle safely. It can have a downside as campers will profit of the free space more than we could.

Disavantages for Luigi
The ledge on the first transformation that can bother Luigi's recovery.

Who do we bring here?
IC. Lucas and most low tiers.

Who do we ban this against?
ROB. Siege is a great stage for him.[/b][/collapse]


[collapse=Delfino Plaza]Delfino Plaza!

[/collapse]


[collapse=Brinstar]Brinstar!

[/collapse]

 

[TheMike]

Maybe I'll need this post, too. :X

reserving...

 

[Pony]

Uhh, don't go to FD vs. IC's?

That's all I got.

 

[TheMike]

Battlefield!

Advantages for Luigi
Platforms in some specific cases. I like them and I think they are useful for Luigi to get aerials by shield poking and juggling opponents. e.g.: Dthrow below the platform on low % > Uair(opponent shields) > Jump > Fair > Nair > ...

Disadvantages for Luigi
Platformas can be good, but they can also be bad. eg.: Marth using his ****ing aerials!

Who do we bring here
ROB. It's Luigi's best neutral option vs ROB IMO.

Who do we ban this against
Marth and Meta Knight are probably the most important characters to avoid on Battlefield.


Edit: I think there's no details that are stage specific. If you know anyone, please post. Also guys, please complete the information given above. ;X

 

[Pony]

Luigi can totally scrooge on Smashville.
ledge drop > green missile > JRC > ledge grab on other side.

 

[TheMike]

Luigi can totally scrooge on Smashville.

Don't you mean Battlefield?

 

[Chaosgriffin]

You also want to avoid Battlefield when fighting DK, he can abuse the **** out of those platforms, more so than Luigi can with his aerials. SO take DK to Final D, it is not a great Luigi stage, but with the fireball on FD makes DK think before approaching.

 

[Pony]

Don't you mean Battlefield?

No, but I guess he could on Battlefield too..

Oh yeah, why isn't Smashville on the list of stages up there?

 

[kigbariom]

Oh yeah, why isn't Smashville on the list of stages up there?

I think we're doing a few at a time... I guess.

 

[Pony]

I think we're doing a few at a time... I guess.

Oh, I thought we were doing neutrals first, or something.

 

[TheMike]

Yes, we are doing neutrals first, but not all of them at the same time. But we can actually start Smashville as Battlefield and Final Destination are almost done, especially BF.

Edit: Other characters to bring to Battlefield? And to avoid? Any other advantage/disadvantage on it? Does Scrooge really work?

 

[Chaosgriffin]

You can pull info on what characters to bring and not to bring to battlefield from my stage thread
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=9123970#post9123970

However, obviously some of the characters might be different since my thread it for DK.

 

[TreK]

I like that info, and that type of organization =V

About BF, what I like the most is that SH fireballs can hit people on platforms through their shields.

 

[TheMike]

OP updated. We now have three stages to discuss/continue discussing: Smashville, Yoshi's Island and Pokémon Stadium 1!

 

[yoshq]

i cp ps1 against mk always

 

[TheMike]

i cp ps1 against mk always

Would you be so kind to provide us with reasons?

 

[yoshq]

no, I just like it. the only reason I can think of why is that it's like FD but with platforms he can get stuck on.

 

[Delvro]

I end up striking FD and Smashville against pretty much every character. These stages are god-awful for luigi. The reason I do so is because being above an opponent without the option of landing on a platform is one of the worst situations possible with Luigi's low air speed... even fakeouts like B-reversing fireballs don't help much. DK and MK are an exception though for sure.

Marth is a beast on Battlefield, but Marth also has an easy time juggling luigi on stages without platforms such as FD (as I've inconveniently learned from Xisin). BF is not a good stage to take Marth to, but neither is FD. However, many marths tend to strike FD anyway, from my experience, so you don't have to.

 

[yoshq]

I end up striking FD and Smashville against pretty much every character. These stages are god-awful for luigi. The reason I do so is because being above an opponent without the option of landing on a platform is one of the worst situations possible with Luigi's low air speed... even fakeouts like B-reversing fireballs don't help much. DK and MK are an exception though for sure.

Marth is a beast on Battlefield, but Marth also has an easy time juggling luigi on stages without platforms such as FD (as I've inconveniently learned from Xisin). BF is not a good stage to take Marth to, but neither is FD. However, many marths tend to strike FD anyway, from my experience, so you don't have to.

lol being above the opponent is one of the best situations for a luigi to be in. nair and nado. except for against marth, mk, and certain other chars.

 

[TreK]

YI's my personnal CP with Luigi. We can bring soooooo much annoying people here like oli, falco, DDD, Snake or Wario because it's such a good stage against them <3

I don't know how to play on the fire part of PS1, what's your usual strategy here ?

 

[yoshq]

YI's my personnal CP with Luigi. We can bring soooooo much annoying people here like oli, falco, DDD, Snake or Wario because it's such a good stage against them <3

I don't know how to play on the fire part of PS1, what's your usual strategy here ?

same as other places. if you get the next to the wall, jab123 bounce them off the wall to upb. if you're on the left under the log, lure them into rolling behind you trying to get their infinite, and turn around and upb. just play smart.

 

[Delvro]

lol being above the opponent is one of the best situations for a luigi to be in. nair and nado. except for against marth, mk, and certain other chars.

I was talking about Marth and Mk.... >_<

 

[TheMike]

OP updated. Lylat Cruise discussion opened. I'll leave the Pokémon Stadium 1 discussion open for some more time, just saying. After discussing it, I'll open the discussion for Castle Siege and Halberd, finishing the starter and starter/counter stages list.

Edit: I would like wether someone provides me with a disadvantage for Luigi on Yoshi's Island.

 

[TreK]

The ceiling is quite high on Yoshi's Island, which means we usually kill later since most our killmoves send straight up. But the way the stage is completely destroys that disadvantage.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

In my opinion for Lylat Cruise:

Advantages for Luigi: This is like Luigi's 2nd possible best stage because of the platforms like Battlefield. Platforms benefit and support Luigi so Luigi can juggle and combo his opponents. Of course, Luigi's recovery is not that bad on this stage. Luigi can duck under characters projectiles such as Falco and Fox.

Disadvantages for Luigi: I don't think Luigi has a problem on this stage. I can't think of it right now.

Who do we bring here?: Characters with BAD recovery, Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, Olimar, Fox, Falco, Wolf, Ness, Lucas, C.Falcon, Olimar, Ike, and probably Diddy Kong. Luigi can edge-guard them and make them lose a stock.

Who do we ban this against? G&W, Marth, probably Snake. G&W and Marth like to have their ways w/ their aerials and they do better on platforms than Luigi. Marth - Fair and Nair to make Luigi slide if Luigi shields it and that can give Luigi a hard time to deal w/ him on this stage. Luigi can't beat G&W in juggling. Snake can hide his C4 and land mines around the platforms and on the platforms.

 

[Chaosgriffin]

Also it can be hard to see nades at times on that stage.

 

[yoshq]

me vs a snake recently on lylat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EPMaooTeOQ

yeah, I got hit with a nade and a c4 without knowing they were there. maybe try using a lighter texture for it, then i would love that stage : )

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Yep, just pay close attention and rememeber where he would place his C4 and land mines at and don't blank when u're fighting Snake on that stage.

 

[ScAtt77]

IMO if you take Olimar to Lylat you're cping yourself. Olimar gets an excessive amount of yellow pikmin ( negating his priority issue) here and his tether isn't effected too much by the ledge.

 

[HyL!]

get the blue equipment hacks for snake, then him on lylat should be no problem

 

[Chaosgriffin]

But at a tourney, if they do not allow textures. The regular background for Lylat is still dark and hard to tell where everything is, especially if you forgot where he put it. PS1 is pretty good against snake, he cannot really nade camp that well on it due to the different terrains that can put the fighters in close quarters. Also when the stage changes there is a chance that his his mine and C4 will blow up.

 

[HyL!]

yeah that's true.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Lol, thats cheating but hey its worth it to see where Snake is gonna put his C4s and land mines at, which would give us a lil help on the MU.

 

[TheMike]

OP updated. Time to discuss Halberd and Castle Siege.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

- My opinion on Halberd..

Advantages for Luigi: Like Battlefield and Lylat Cruise, Luigi's best friend which is the platform is there to assist him to do strings and combos. Luigi is a close-up character, Luigi can space out w/ his fireballs in this stage against other characters, his recovery is very good.

Disadvantages for Luigi: Idk, can you guys think of his disadvantages b/c I think Luigi is fairly good on counter-pick stages. o_O..

Who do we bring here: Captain Falcon, Link, Ganondorf, Bowser, Fox, Sheik, Falco? Ike? The reason why to bring these characters to this stage b/c on the flying part, Fox and Link would have trouble w/ spacing b/c they depend on their projectile, we have better close-up game than theirs, and they're fastfallers which help us to combo through the platform. Sheik and Captain Falcon, the same reason, being one of fast-fallers to get juggled. Falco? Maybe, b/c we can try to bring him up to 30-50% at the flying part of the stage, once we land on the Halberd, he's gonna run, spam lazers and side b. Jab > Up-throw > U-air is a good setup for them @ low percentage. Ike? It depends on how feel if you want him there, just watch out for up-smash, charge-up smash, and up-tilt.

Who do we ban this against: Meta Knight, Kirby, Jigglypuff, Wario, and G&W. Their recoveries are too good for us. MK, Kirby, and Jiggly would try to go below the platform while trying hit to us and they can probably do WOP just to get us offstage. Wario, forget it, he's so unpredictable, he can do anything he want as soon as he get off his bike, we can't tell where would he go next. G&W, we can't gimp him.

 

[TreK]

Halberd -> looooow ceiling. Bring DDDs there cus they'll die at 60 instead of 100.
The flying part also negates our sucky ledge game.
As far as I know, it's also a pretty good stage against Falco.

I only ever ban it against Snake. It may be a better stage for him than FD. So yeah, avoid taking him there.

I must admit, I play Diddy more than Luigi on this stage. There's a Trekombo here (Trekombos = abusing the brokenness stage in a total random manner. For Halberd it's banana lock to bomb. My favorite is on JJ. Yay.)

Castle siege -> We can juggle about anyone on the 1st part thanks to the weird platforms. The shape of it is good against Falco and Diddy as long as you're keeping the control of the left part.
The second part stops most projectiles, except pikmins and ROB's lazors. We have quite a lot of moves that become killmoves there. Jab cancelling jab1 into jab1 on statues refresh your moves really quickly, and the fact that it's a walkoff makes our bthrow a bit better. The ceiling's high there, so we can keep our usmash fresh for the third part. That 3rd part can either be really good, or really bad. The sloped floor helps us a bit (sliding techniques are better on it), and the free space can be abused to approach and juggle safely. It can have a downside as campers will profit of the free space more than we could.

I CP it against quite a lot of characters, but most are low tiered. CPing ICs here can be a good choice though, as lon as you don't mess up that third part. I only try to avoid it against Oli and ROB (not necessarily banning it).

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I just do not use Halberd vs Fox's or Snake users and I probably really should not use it vs MK or GaW.

pick it vs non-vertical based killers. I do use it vs King D3 but I prefer more platforms (my personal favorite stage vs D3 is Battlefield actually. I also use it vs Marth's.

 

[HyL!]

My only experience with Halberd, is to ban it against snake always, and castle siege, the only problem i would see about it is, the 2nd area, the statues can interrupt fireballs, i haven't really cp'd it, so i'm not sure who to take there. Also, even though YI is already done, i'm not sure if anyone said this, but i usually cp YI against Pit, mainly because they can't go under the stage to avoid getting blue wing gimped, but i'm not totally sure if it's a legit cp, also against Ness/Lucas. But, that's just me.

 

[TheMike]

Time to discuss Delfino Plaza and Brinstar.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

My opinion on Brinstar:

Advantages for Luigi:

IDK.. I'll think later

Disadvantages for Luigi:

IDK.. I'll think later

Who we do bring here?

Link, Ganon, Falco, Fox, ICs, DDD, Snake, ROB, Bowser, Ike, Sonic??, and Captain Falcon. ICs, Falco, and DDD can't chain grab you due to the acid. The acid screws it up big time, but the matchup w/ ICs would be wayyyyyy easier for us, DDD still got powerful defense towards us, and Falco would do side-b all day. No need for me to explain what to do w/ Ganon, we got that. Ike, some Ike players would try come up w/ a idea, like plank > up-b > plank > up-b or w/e, they can up-smash us through platforms cept the top platform. Snake would hide his C4s on platforms and he'll try to play safe so he won't mess up or otherwise we can try to pressure him, screw up his defense, and juggle him. Hmm, ROB, he'll try to space out and careful of what he doing, be careful while u fighting in aerial combat, I know his aerial moves are laggy but still, they are strong and can take a stock off of us since Brinstar is smallish.


Who do we ban this against?

Mario, Ness, Meta Knight, G&W, and Wolf. Mario and Ness are dead even on platforms against Luigi. Watch out for Ness's up-aerial, the headbutt, air-dodge his PKT after he knocks you in the air. Mario, it seems like they both gonna trade hits when it comes to platforms. G&W, like I said, the stage is smallish, characters die easily once get knocked off-stage, watch out for his smashes and his nairs when hes below the platforms. MK is MK -____-. Wolf is gud on this stage, I dunno how to explain it.