Luigi Matchup Discussion

[Noa.]

Luigi​

 

[DanGR]

I've heard horror stories about Brood being able to SDI Luigi's jabs so that he'll land behind him and punish every time, which would be awesome, but is pretty much impossible to do consistently.

That said, I'm super outdated so my opinion on this character probably doesn't matter lol, but I'm gonna throw out a ratio anyways because I can: 50:50 if both players make 0 or extremely minimal mistakes, which should go without saying, but people don't seem to understand that concept. (mistakes- not to be confused with off reads, which I consider different.)

Biglou
Lounis
Boss
Boss8
Luigi
Mario

 

[MiniTroika]

To be honest, I used to find this matchup very difficult at times but after a while it gets a bit easier. Thought I believe that matchup discussions should cover the common mental strategies (baits,etc) that another character goes through, I will just go through some basic facts that should help a bit.

-If he Nairs, U-smash OoS works wonders (Yellow,Red,Purple for best results) Luigi's aerials aren't fast enough to counter this.
-D-Tilt clashes with Tornado. Be creative with how you react, but just don't stand there.
-U-air is excellent if you space it. (Red, Yellow)
-Jab/D-tilt clashes with fireball
-Pivot Grab is effective against tornado
-F-smash beats his missile.

 

[-Vocal-]

Drat, Troika stole my main tactic!

Well as he mentioned, Dtilt clashes with tornado and fireballs, so I like to throw them out occasionally like we throw out Fsmash against Snake - just a precautionary measure. If we're far across the stage from one another I like to throw a pikmin, FF, Dtilt for the likely to follow Tornado, and follow up with whatever.

I always farm for yellows in this matchup, and purples after that. Usually I give purples priority but Luigi's gonna be trying to get inside the Oli box a lot and I feel like yellows do a better job of keeping him out. The huge hitboxes also make for some nice spacing/counter attacks. Question: does anyone know how stutter step fares in this match up?

I really want Logic to post in this thread but I have a feeling he isn't going to share his secrets O_O

 

[Dnyce]

Usmash oos also beats his tornado, it will auto desync to wherever he finishes.

 

[Asa]

i feel very comfortable in this mu once we're below him

luigi's like to do fair/uair -> nair a lot

whistle the nair and punish with usmash or something to get him in the air

luigi's kill moves are also fairly telegraphed so plz whistle most of them

 

[-Vocal-]

So

like

where the hell is everyone?

I can understand if this isn't a fantastic matchup that we all know in and out, but it seems like there should be a bit more to say. Even a post from each person? And if anyone has a specific problem then just post it, I'm sure we could figure something out about how to work around it. I'd like to have at least something useful here, including something that will help new Olimars when they decide to look it up. Hmm. Guess I'll write down the basic rules of fighting Luigi:

1) If he's approaching from the air, don't try to counter him with a smash unless you have a yellow at the front of your line. All other colors are out-prioritized and you will end up getting yourself hit.

2) Luigi loves to combo people at low percents and he's fairly good at it. Ruin his day by whistling out as soon as you can and countering - Usmash is great if you're very close to the ground and will land quickly enough, Nair is a good option after that, and then other moves are situational.

3) If you and Luigi are far apart from one another, do not believe that you are safe as you would be in most matchups. Luigi has tornado, which basically matches Snake's DACUS in terms of covering ground quickly, but with the added benefit of swatting away pikmin like flies. You can counter with a Dtilt (clanks), Yellow F/Usmash (wins), or a Pivot Grab, but be careful when trying to pivot grab; it requires prediction to catch him, and if he starts to see a pattern in your pivot grab patterns then he can bait it and punish.

4) Watch out for fireballs. Some Luigi's like to use them to set you up for a stronger move, much like Falco uses his lasers occasionally to do the same thing, albeit much better.

5) Never try to latch more than 2 pikmin max on Luigi. It's ridiculously easy for him to get them off, and if he does then you're sitting there waiting for your pikmin to come back. 1-2 pikmin also draw less attention, so if you're good at it you can slowly rack damage over time.

6) A lot of this matchup is throwing pikmin until Luigi approaches, then punishing him for his approach of choice - the way Olimar plays many matchups. However, as some of our normal tools don't work as well due to priority issues, this matchup requires you to understand your opponents playstyle a bit so that you can more effectively counter with the tools you do have.

I think that covers the basics for now. Anyone else can add to the list, or suggest a change if I'm incorrect about anything.

 

[Asa]

keep a couple reds in your lineup so you can fsmash through fireballs when they try approaching in this way

when luigi jabs you, always sdi away because they like doing jab cancels - grab/up-b

 

[-Vocal-]

keep a couple reds in your lineup so you can fsmash through fireballs when they try approaching in this way

when luigi jabs you, always sdi away because they like doing jab cancels - grab/up-b

Actually, I throw away reds. Usually the only things they're good for are Usmashes and Fair, and both get out-prioritized the majority of the time in this matchup, so whenever I have a red I find myself wishing it was yellow or purple.

 

[Jane]

basically yellows, purple toss, and pivot grabs will be your best friends in this match up. abuse these three things, dont get too predictable, and you should be alright.

ive never fought like a really good luigi. only semi decent ones, but still im pretty confident in knowing how luigi works

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Give me a bit of time and I can make a post about the matchup. Been super busy lately.

 

[-Vocal-]

Give me a bit of time and I can make a post about the matchup. Been super busy lately.

Np, can't wait to read it ^_^

Also, I'd like to get Fino and Rich to post if possible before moving on to strikes, bans, and counterpicks.

 

[Jane]

also ive heard some people say luigi is the worst of our bad matchups? why do people feel this way? ive always thought luigi is our easiest.

its not like he can just camp in the air forever like mk and peach, or has a gay little sword like marth, or is falco

all hes got is priority, which all of our other bad matchups have, but they have even MORE gay ****

 

[Dnyce]

Luigi Match-up:
pikmin toss until close
pivot grab / fsmash if they're coming from the ground
Usmash OoS if they're coming from the air
DI jab up
Don't jump often

Last minute thoughts, don't go for throw combos unless they're guaranteed (see: The Onion). Dthrow... ****ing wait your anxious *** a minute... they nair... throw out another grab -> profit.

CPs: Delfino and PS1

Ban: Smashville

 

[-Vocal-]

Luigi Match-up:
pikmin toss until close
pivot grab / fsmash if they're coming from the ground
Usmash OoS if they're coming from the air
DI jab up
Don't jump often

Last minute thoughts, don't go for throw combos unless they're guaranteed (see: The Onion). Dthrow... ****ing wait your anxious *** a minute... they nair... throw out another grab -> profit.

CPs: Delfino and PS1

Ban: Smashville

Short and sweet, but productive

Pretty much all we need for this discussion really lol

 

[DtJ Hilt]

No, ban Battlefield. Smashville isn't great for Olimar, but Luigi is incredible on Battlefield. Luigi also doesn't get many perks from smashville at all other than its small size, but if that's the case, Yoshi's Island would be a better choice, if he was counterpicking on for that reason. Also, Luigi needs platforms, and benefits from them a lot. Counterpick FD, not PS1. No time for a long post, about to leave for church. I just wanted to address that point before I leave, lol.

 

[MiniTroika]

In each matchup thread there should be two things: 1) All the facts such as priority, etc
2) Talking about the expected set ups and baits. A lot of the matchup discussions are elementary.

Fino's post is a starting example of what we should consider.

 

[IcyLight]

DO NOT try to ground your nair into a smash, if you ground your nair he can DI out upwards and nair you before you can do anything. IF you end up doing, this, you are better off trying utilt/running away and pivot grabbing.

 

[Exceladon City]

I feel like you guys should probably let Logic and Hilt take the reigns on this.

 

[DtJ SquidBurrMoneyBurr]

Jab, up b, Crocodile Dundee.

 

[Noa.]

My matchup experience to Luigi is virtually nonexistent.

For those of you who know the matchup but don't know what to post, here are some ideas:

1. Basic Matchup Summary - Just a small paragraph detailing whose advantage it is and why.
2. Move Discussion - In here you want to state what moves give Olimar trouble, and how to prepare/counter against them. Don't bother going over unimportant moves though. Do we really need to know how to handle Snake's dtilt?
3. Zones - This mostly has to do with the characters spacing in correlation with each other. Spacing is a very important part of a matchup, as certain distances can really skew the match into one character's favor. Both vertical spacing and horizontal spacing are important. For horizontal spacing, consider that within ftilt range, Olimar gets ***** by Snake, but outside of that range Oli does very well and always carries a slight advantage. In the case of vertical spacing, look at how skewed the matchup is when ROB is above Olimar compared to when they're both at ground level.
4. Camping - Against certain characters, Olimar needs to camp a specific way to outcamp them. Consider Falco and Snake.
5. Edgeguarding - This really only matters for characters who have specific edgeguarding techniques that are unusual and effective. Consider Peach and her turnips.
6. General stuff - Just general tips and strategies that aren't covered by anything else.
7. Stages - Counterpicks and bans.

 

[DtJ SquidBurrMoneyBurr]

5) Never try to latch more than 2 pikmin max on Luigi. It's ridiculously easy for him to get them off, and if he does then you're sitting there waiting for your pikmin to come back. 1-2 pikmin also draw less attention, so if you're good at it you can slowly rack damage over time.

6) A lot of this matchup is throwing pikmin until Luigi approaches, then punishing him for his approach of choice - the way Olimar plays many matchups. However, as some of our normal tools don't work as well due to priority issues, this matchup requires you to understand your opponents playstyle a bit so that you can more effectively counter with the tools you do have.

I think that covers the basics for now. Anyone else can add to the list, or suggest a change if I'm incorrect about anything.

@5: Depending on the luigi, Even throwing 1 Latch Opens Oppertunity for a nado, which means you cant grab or pivot. This is bad. SidenoteLosing 2 Pikmin and being Nado'ed will most likely leave you in the air, Followed by air pressure and more than likely putting you outside of the stage. Being 2down pikmin Sucks.)
@Luigi's Nado: Once you see the animation start up, that is the time to grab luigi.
@1: Up air clanks with Nair, usually giving Luigi the benefit of Down air.
Luigi's uptilt Is faster than our grab out of shield, If he uptilts Twice in your shield, you must get out, at low percents you can be hit with 2-3 even Di'ing, into Various other Air combos* (Whistle Like vocal said). Also Depending on the luigi, Jab+Upb Is a solid combo for luigi on olimar, so If you're getting jab pressured Heed warning about upB on your shield.

This is what I have gathered, Hilt will more than likely blow this thread up Cause he plays Luigis Alot(<3 Crash <3)

 

[DtJ Hilt]

luigi's kill moves are also fairly telegraphed so plz whistle most of them

Not really. Luigi is one of the only characters that has more kill options than we do, lol. And even more on us are available than he has on most other characters. One of his best kill moves, utilt, is difficult to see coming, so be wary of it. It doesn't kill as early as most of his other kill options, but it's his most reliable one, I would say.

2) Luigi loves to combo people at low percents and he's fairly good at it. Ruin his day by whistling out as soon as you can and countering - Usmash is great if you're very close to the ground and will land quickly enough, Nair is a good option after that, and then other moves are situational.

Not a good idea. Whistling through his low percentage combos puts us right back down next to him for us to get comboed again, and trying to counter his combos with aerial options of our own isn't a good idea because we have too much lag to do so, compared to Luigi. If it were against another character, it might be a good idea. If you do whistle through his air combos, get the hell away. Don't try to whistle any combos luigi does on the ground (Jab, Utilt, etc). Only whistle his aerials. You don't want to be near him.

3) If you and Luigi are far apart from one another, do not believe that you are safe as you would be in most matchups. Luigi has tornado, which basically matches Snake's DACUS in terms of covering ground quickly, but with the added benefit of swatting away pikmin like flies. You can counter with a Dtilt (clanks), Yellow F/Usmash (wins), or a Pivot Grab, but be careful when trying to pivot grab; it requires prediction to catch him, and if he starts to see a pattern in your pivot grab patterns then he can bait it and punish.

A good writeup of how to prevent and watch out for tornado. Also keep in mind that smart Luigis will tornado from the air, even from our diagonal blind spot. It's hard to counter this, usually, and our best option is to just shield and up smash him oos afterwards, instead of trying to counter it normally.

4) Watch out for fireballs. Some Luigi's like to use them to set you up for a stronger move, much like Falco uses his lasers occasionally to do the same thing, albeit much better.

Keep in mind that Luigi's fireballs are laggy as hell. The lag on Luigi actually lasts longer than the fireball itself does, lol. Powershielding one gives you plenty of time to punish. Also, if he throws a fireball when you two are close, a red fsmash will eat the fireball, hitting Luigi afterwards. The main problem fireballs create are when we try to grab. If Luigi predicts a grab from us, he can throw out a fireball, breaking the grab half way through, putting us in lag, and allowing him to get a free hit.

5) Never try to latch more than 2 pikmin max on Luigi. It's ridiculously easy for him to get them off, and if he does then you're sitting there waiting for your pikmin to come back. 1-2 pikmin also draw less attention, so if you're good at it you can slowly rack damage over time.

Throwing less pikmin is a good idea, but not really for these reasons. It's mainly just because throwing too many pikmin allows him to close the gap easily, since he can do so while coming closer to us, not just with tornado. Any of his aerials work better, actually, and are usually generally safe as long as they don't hit our shield.

@1: Up air clanks with Nair, usually giving Luigi the benefit of Down air.

Nope X: Our Up Air will almost always beat his Nair, unless he Nairs the last hit of our Uair with the sweet spot of his Nair (3 frame window lol), so Uair is usually safe, unless the Pikmin is white or something and the sweet spot nair kills it lol

DO NOT try to ground your nair into a smash, if you ground your nair he can DI out upwards and nair you before you can do anything. IF you end up doing, this, you are better off trying utilt/running away and pivot grabbing.

THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT LOL

Seriously! Don't Nair -> Up Smash in this matchup. If you really want it for the kill, though, here's something you can do. Early in a stock try to go for Nair -> Up Smash, see if he Nairs it. If he does, remember that. Do it a stock or two later, but shield this time instead. Hopefully he Nairs, thinking you're going to Up Smash, but hits your shield instead, allowing you to get a friend Up Smash OOS.

But don't try it when you're at high percents under any circumstances. Sweet Spot Nair kills pretty easily.

5. Edgeguarding - This really only matters for characters who have specific edgeguarding techniques that are unusual and effective. Consider Peach and her turnips.

If you can, try to land a pikmin either on Luigi or in front of him when he Missles, to stop him. It won't gimp him, but it will limit his options and make him a bit more predictable. Luigi is naturally gimpable, but not so much by Olimar. Luigi's aerials are fast enough and have so much priority that going for the gimp will usually end up with us getting hit. And if we get Coined by his UpB (Sour Spot), we can often end up getting gimped by it instead lol. It has no hitstun (and I think no hitlag either), so you may end up accidently buffering another attack or not realize that you're falling until its too late. The best options are to just give him as much pressure as possible when he's off stage to rack up damage, and kill him when he's trying to get back from the ledge to the stage, which Luigi is naturally mediocre at.

7. Stages - Counterpicks and bans.

FD is our best CP option. Delfino is also good. PS1 is pretty good, as is Pictochat. Watch out for Battlefield, Brinstar, Frigate, and Norfair if it's legal. Different Luigis like different CPs, so just be prepared. The thing about Norfair is that while it's generally a great stage for Luigi and a bad stage for Olimar (imo), in this matchup it's not that bad.

I'll try to stay more active in this thread.

Edit: Oh, and while i'm not the best at playing the Luigi matchup (would definitely like PS to post), I know more about Luigi as a character than most people outside of those that main him lol and the same can be said about Crash with Olimar, since we've had countless conversations about each others' characters over the past couple of years, haha. So I'm pretty good at theorycrafting XD

 

[MiniTroika]

DO NOT try to ground your nair into a smash, if you ground your nair he can DI out upwards and nair you before you can do anything. IF you end up doing, this, you are better off trying utilt/running away and pivot grabbing.

For characters that are more easily able to get out of nair, can't we just shield and U-smash oos?

 

[-Vocal-]

Thank you Hilt - your post has won the thread so far I don't consider myself and expert by any means in this matchup so I'm really glad you corrected me on those misteaks. (Mmm, steak.) I want Logic to post too, but as far as I've been able to tell in my many months here, he just does not want to share his Luigi knowledge. That or I'm very easy to ignore >.>

@Squid: It's true that throwing a pikmin can leave you open for Nado, so that's why you have to space it very well and not be predictable with it

For characters that are more easily able to get out of nair, can't we just shield and U-smash oos?

Hilt said that. He half-hour ninjaed you

Also, just because I haven't used it in forever:

 

[ScAtt77]

Lol I wish I had found this thread earlier. Mostly everything has been covered in this match up. However I would like to emphasize one thing that Hilt said: do not try to whistle ground attacks from Luigi. I'm certain that anything Olimar throws out after that whistle will probably be beaten by a jab.

Guess i'll throw in a few other random things.

The only aerial Luigi has that is safe on shield is his bair.

Expect dairs when you're shield is getting small.

Don't try to grab Luigi if he's nadoing your shield.

I'm not too sure about this, but I believe that Luigi's jab out prioritizes Olimar's F smash (excluding purple pikmin)

Don't be afraid of Luigi if he's above you. Your uair beats out every single aerial he has. Otherwise, don't challenge Luigi in the air because you'll lose.

 

[Dnyce]

I feel like you guys should probably let Logic and Hilt take the reigns on this.

Who let the *** into our discussion?

Back on topic, I like PS1 better than FD for the chance at getting extra blue pikmin which I find invaluable in the MU. Also PS1 is great for timing people out, and since you should have NO INTENTION WHAT-SO-EVER at approaching luigi in the match-up, it should at least be sitting in the back of your head. In any case, whether it's your intention or not... the stalling transformations should remind you how to play.

Hilt and I will of course disagree on many things. For the most part, I don't consider FD a viable stage for Olimar. There are better neutrals to start on, and there are better Counterpicks to use. However, that's all my opinion. One of the primary reasons I learned ICs was because my Olimar thrives on platform abuse while ICs thrive with long flat stages. PS1 as a counterpick is just my opinion... and not something I really want to argue. lol, everyone has their stage preference

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Yeah, PS1 is a good stage for the matchup, lol. The platforms on the stage don't prove to be much of a problem. The only problem with the stage in the matchup is getting cornered in one of the areas XD trying to fight him in any close quarters (including the windmill) is a bad idea. But overall yeah, the stage works as a good CP in this situation.

 

[Dnyce]

Yeah, PS1 is a good stage for the matchup, lol. The platforms on the stage don't prove to be much of a problem. The only problem with the stage in the matchup is getting cornered in one of the areas XD trying to fight him in any close quarters (including the windmill) is a bad idea. But overall yeah, the stage works as a good CP in this situation.

I love the windmill.... it's like I don't have to worry about jab-shoryuken at all anymore. lol.

 

[IcyLight]

For characters that are more easily able to get out of nair, can't we just shield and U-smash oos?

actually yes you can, hilt said that as well. i havent been around in a while i forgot you guys are going crazy with usmash oos options now xD

 

[Asa]

Not really. Luigi is one of the only characters that has more kill options than we do, lol. And even more on us are available than he has on most other characters. One of his best kill moves, utilt, is difficult to see coming, so be wary of it. It doesn't kill as early as most of his other kill options, but it's his most reliable one, I would say.

idk man

when they're in the air near you, its easy to whistle ->get away anything they throw at you

when they're on the ground, fsmash/dsmash, but those are slow enough to whistle on reaction/prediction

although, i didn't know about utilt >.>

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Fsmash and Dsmash are not slow enough to where you should comfortably rely to whistle them on reaction lol. Fsmash is a counter approach, it isn't something he throws out when we're already close, usually. He also has Jab -> UpB, Jab -> Down Smash, Up Smash. Luigi might have the best kill options in the game lol. They're just attached to such ****ty character physics.

 

[Greward]

i dunno a lot about this matchup, only played it in tourney twice and it werent outstanding luigi players (we dont have good luigis in europe neither) but i dont think it as a hard matchup.

i wont write a summary because im busy but if it's in luigi's advantage then it's not really big

 

[wwwilliam0024]

Well luckly i have a friend who plays Luigi alot.

Luigi actually gets annoying at some times but you just got to keep few things in mind:

- Shield is your friend! Beside the fact luigi really mess your pikmin up, his attacks also collide with the pikmin sending them flying, so most times Smashes arent really reliable. :S

- His Down B is probably why the MU is in his favor, besides being fast, unpredictable and has annoying hitboxes, it sends you flying in an awkward down direction, which can gimp you. Thats why its good to shield once in a while, also you can pivot grab him with any pikmin while he does this. While he spins your Fsmash wont do nothing, you can Fsmash him right before he does the final hit, but not while he spins.

Now that i mention it, Every attack you have will only Clank with the Down B (including aerials). So keep your shield or try to predict this attack, but its pretty hard since its FAST. Shiled and then punish, grab if youre leet.

For the mentallity, grab to combos, since most of Luigis moves has more priority than the pikmins, most times you will clank or simply get hit with his attacks, throw your pikmins, get damage, punish every unnecesary move he makes, and then go for the KO. (Usmash is his weakness)

TIP:

-when luigi is offstage, throw your pikmins to stop the Misfire (side B) move. If theres a pikmin latched on to him he will hit it in the air and wont advance.

-uuhgg...

-Luigis tend to get lots of Air from the bottom doing their Down B, well if you time it right, theres a moment where luigi stops spinning in order to deliver the final move, you can go for a Dair and spike him, but timing is needed.

uuuhg im pretty tired i gave most of my basic knowledge. lol anyone has something to quote?

 

[Dnyce]

you can upsmash oos his downB will

 

[wwwilliam0024]

well obviusly if you shield it, but when he spins, his priority is annoying. After he finishes or before the last hit is when you must strike.

And in the situation where luigis do the DownB just to run away from you, theres not really many Oos options is there...? Since he will probably be to far ... :S

(spam pikmin)

 

[Allied]

i like luigi hes a fun character.

 

[wwwilliam0024]

good for u....

 

[DtJ Hilt]

i like Allied hes a fun character.

 

[Dnyce]

I've never really had a problem with luigi's downB...

or luigi in general I guess