Lucina Thread [Closing]

[Chido72]

Death threats, huh? Real cool, man. Real cool.

It's a joke, man. "Get busy dying" is one of Brady's critical quotes, which should have been obvious considering the hilarious Brady Bunch photoshop right below it.
Speaking of, have you actually played Fire Emblem Awakening? Because from what I've seen, the answer would be no, leading me to ask why you're in a thread about one of it's spoilerific characters.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

I've never played an entire Fire Emblem game in my life. I'm just here to offer my opinions, not as a Fire Emblem fan (which I'm not) but as a Smash fan. Sakurai will do what he must for all of us, not just some of us.

 

[Shotguner159]

Lucina and Marth are 90% identical? FE:A redesigned Marth sure, but Smash Marth? FE11 Marth? FE12 Marth. Not really. Facially she looks different anyway, and if Marth uses any design than his DLC one, they dress very differently.

EDIT: Alike. Not identical. My apolgies.

 

[Hank Hill]

I've never played an entire Fire Emblem game in my life. I'm just here to offer my opinions, not as a Fire Emblem fan (which I'm not) but as a Smash fan. Sakurai will do what he must for all of us, not just some of us.

True, Sakurai will do what he must for all of us, not just you

 

[DraginHikari]

The problem I have with Lucina is that she is irrefutably incredibly similar to Marth. From the perspective of the players, it might be difficult to keep track of which character is which.

Saying Lucina wouldn't be a clone but Chrom would be is a bit far fetched too. If anything, Lucina being the most simialr to Marth puts her in the position to be the clone out of any of them. Chrom is distinctly different looking from the other two besides the hair. I honestly viewed the trio as Marth being fast, Chrom being middle ground, and Ike being slow and strong.

Popularity and recognition are absolutely important, but what also must be considered is the transition to Smash. Lucina is so closely identical to another character (who is NOT going to be replaced btw), that it, to me, would seem redundant. Before somebody uses an argument like, "Mario and Luigi are really close to one another, are they redundant?", that is a completely different case. Mario and Luigi basically ARE Nintendo. Fire Emblem is a completely different case from Mario.

I like Lucina as a character, but I don't see her translating all that well into Smash.

That's a fair enough argument for the character for sure, though I only disagree on a conceptal basis, mostly because I won't make the assumption that Marth is guranatee entree into the game just like I wouldn't assume any character. Marth isn't exactly Mario or Link in regards to necessary staying power. It could be quite possible they do not proceed with Marth, as unlikely as that may seem, and I more just make a neutral appraoch to it until something is annouced to suggest otherwise. If Marth does get announced then I would definitely have no debate on that view and that it would make her appearance far less likely.

 

[jaytalks]

Death threats, huh? Real cool, man. Real cool.

it's his critical hit quote from the game. It wasn't meant towards you,
http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Brady
edit:responded to way before me.

That isn't what I mean. Lucina's appearance is what makes her so similar to Marth. Not the moveset. Fox and Falco are distinguishable. Roy and Marth are distinguishable. Falcon and Ganondorf are distinguishable from one another. Lucina and Marth look I would say 90% alike besides a few minor details.

As far as Lucina using her lance, Chrom can do this as well, and looks far more unique among the other two compared to Lucina. So giving Lucina a lance wouldn't make a difference in all honestly.

Their designs are actually quite different provided you look at a picture of Marth where he wasn't the designed to look like Lucina (as he was in awakening).
His DS form is very different than Lucina, especially in the remake. He wears a completely different shade of blue, he's much taller, and a great deal bulkier. If you compared these two forms together, there's not a lot of confusion. Considering Sakurai's tendency to use their most recent main appearances, I think Marth is most likely to like his New Mystery of the Emblem: Heroes of Light and Shadow, not leaving a lot of room for confusion. There would be no need for her to use a lance.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

This would be assuming Marth gets a design change. If he doesn't, he and Lucina will still be incredibly similar. Not to mention, Lucina's character is based off of her role of being Marth.

I'd like to make a comparison.

compared to this (sorry if the images are huge):

In conclusion, they share:

The cape
The boots
The emblem in the cape
The belt (both across waist and abdomen)
Cuffs
Shoulder Armor
The thing in their hair
The designs in their armor

While they may not be exactly alike, they share a **** ton of qualities design wise. Not to mention, if Sakurai were going by latest appearance (which I am really hoping he isn't for Ike's sake), Marth would have this appearance, which is undeniably similar to Lucina.

 

[Fastblade5035]

I fail to see how this

Looks too much like this

Heck, the only similarities are blue hair and blue clothes, that's pretty much it.

 

[jaytalks]

This would be assuming Marth gets a design change. If he doesn't, he and Lucina will still be incredibly similar. Not to mention, Lucina's character is based off of her role of being Marth.

I'd like to make a comparison.

compared to this (sorry if the images are huge):


In conclusion, they share:

The cape
The boots
The emblem in the cape
The belt (both across waist and abdomen)
Cuffs
Shoulder Armor
The thing in their hair

While they may not be exactly alike, they share a **** ton of qualities design wise. Not to mention, if Sakurai were going by latest appearance (which I am really hoping he isn't for Ike's sake), Marth would have this appearance, which is undeniably similar to Lucina.

Sakurai goes by latest main appearance I believe, because it's how they are presented in the game. It goes also along with their choices of their moves from being in their game. That specific redesign was made for Awakening so that Marth's in game model matched the official artwork. Every DLC Lord or Main Character from each game got this as well. I am 100% confident that Sakurai won't use Ike's Awakening redesign, and I have no reason to believe he would use Marth's either

Also keep in mind any appearance of Marth in Awakening is not cannon. The game takes place 2000 years after his death. Same thing with Ike, considering the appearance of Priam (his descendant) means that Ike has long passed on in the game as well. Their appearances in the game are from cards of long deceased from different generations and continents that the player can use.
It's better to compare this:

and this:

 

[Chido72]

@Jones, in that particular comparison, Marth's picture was from a (probably non canon) DLC for Awakening in which he was probably redesigned to accentuate the similarities between him and Lucina. As noted above, Marth's appearance in his actual games are more different and, combined with their different body figures (again shown better immediately above this post rather than Jones'), would be easier to distinguish in Smash.

Edit: Ninja'd, but the above pics works anyway. (Thanks, Jay!)

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

If those designs are the ones chosen, then the appearances will not be a problem.

However, on a personal level, I would much rather prefer Chrom. (although i'm sure I would get over his exclusion and Lucina in Smash would grow on me.)

 

[Hong]

Marh's Awakening design most certainly should not be used for his Smash appearance. That would be awful. O.O It was basically a Lucina headswap so they didn't have to actually design a character.

 

[DraginHikari]

Marh's Awakening design most certainly should not be used for his Smash appearance. That would be awful. O.O It was basically a Lucina headswap so they didn't have to actually design a character.

It's actually kind of funny how they made Marth look more feminine in Awakening then people already thought he was.

 

[Spears In Smash Bros.]

There would be no need for her to use a lance.

The argument of giving Lucina (or Chrom) a lance isn't to distinguish them from Marth visually, but rather to further differentiate their movesets from his. Incidentally, there is also concept art of Lucina in armor, making her look even less like Marth:

 

[Hong]

From the bottom-right drawing, we can see how Lucina is a blatant clone of Marth.

 

[Deleted member]

Anyone have any ideas for cool fan art?

Maybe have her meet the real Marth and be shocked and honored while he looks at her in a puzzled manner?

I don't know, I was never good at ideas for art.

 

[Opossum]

Maybe have her meet the real Marth and be shocked and honored while he looks at her in a puzzled manner?

I don't know, I was never good at ideas for art.

Found this on Google Images.

closeenough.jpg

 

[jaytalks]

The argument of giving Lucina (or Chrom) a lance isn't to distinguish them from Marth visually, but rather to further differentiate their movesets from his. Incidentally, there is also concept art of Lucina in armor, making her look even less like Marth:

no, I was just saying you don't need a lance for them to be different. i wouldn't mind her using a spear, although my current moveset don't have her using one. But I think she's different enough as is. Her moveset would already be different if she uses her two handed sword stance.

 

[Maffewt]

It would just feel really lazy if they did that. It would be worse than if they had no Awakening rep at all IMO.

I meant alongside Chrom Embarrass I agree just that would be lazy.

I don't think that's likely because Sakurai seems pretty keen on presenting characters how they look in their own game. Just look at Mega Man.

True, but I hadn't meant to replace, just to be a costume or perhaps Marth's look on the 3DS version.

 

[@tomic]

no, I was just saying you don't need a lance for them to be different. i wouldn't mind her using a spear, although my current moveset don't have her using one. But I think she's different enough as is. Her moveset would already be different if she uses her two handed sword stance.

They don't have to, no. It would be nice though. The sword, axe, lance triangle is a big part of Fire Emblem so it would be nice to see Fire Emblem characters wielding something other than swords. It's been a big argument for Ephraim and Hector supporters.

The idea of a weapon switching move-set is interesting to me.

 

[Zzuxon]

I don't think putting a canon Marth rule 63 is a good idea.

 

[Chido72]

I don't think putting a canon Marth rule 63 is a good idea.

Ignoring the fact that Lucina is not the exact same as Marth considering they have different fighting styles, personalities, and body types.
If Link and Young Link can get in as clones that look the same except one is smaller and faster, Marth and Lucina can get in as different characters with different movesets.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Well see that Lucina is the daughter of chrom maybe both of them will get in as separate characters

I mean chrom Lucina and Marth all playable not a bad idea

And also this explains why those 2 idiots in the prediction of who's getting kicked and Marth was on it because of lucina

 

[Fire Emblemier]

- You've never heard of the criticisms for the Marth/Lucina similarities?
- Just because YOU want Roy gone forever, doesn't mean EVERYBODY else does.
- Fire Emblem may get three, but no more. Marth, Ike, and Roy are the best options because they are the most recognizable. Sakurai doesn't please the Fire Emblem fans, but the Smashverse instead.
- Refer to the above.
- Whatever the case, they aren't as recognizable to the Smashverse, who would rather prefer Ike and Roy anyways.

We heard plenty of criticism, heck back before E3, most people on the boards didn't want her, and I was one of he few supporting her, showing the differences between her and Marth. People won't confuse them because Marth has a different outfit than Lucina's with different color and design. Compare the two images. Marth uses lighter shades of blue, while Lucina darker. They also have different sword styles, Lucina does more of a stabbing style, while Marth uses more of a fencing-esque style. They may seam seem very similar, but not totally. They can co-exist.

 

[DraginHikari]

That quote also raises another question, should the same FE characters always be included simply because their are more recognizable to smash players. I think it's an interesting question since unlike many of Nintendo's other general franchises such as Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong etc. Fire Emblem games do not keep constant main characters from game to game expect in the case of occasional sequels hends why there is often times many many different characters requested currently from Fire Emblem. If say we are in the case of the last two games only going to have two characters from Fire Emblem do you believe it's better to stick to characters that are already there simply because people outside the FE fan base wouldn't recognize them or is it better to change based on the characters on the opinion of that fan base. I suppose the better question is when choosing characters, how much to you take the original fan base into account compared to everyone that plays Smash?

Personally I think the FE fan base viewpoint does exceed to a certain degree that simply keeping the status quo for the sake of possible confusing people who don't pay attention to the series much anyway. I actually know people who didn't really even know what game Ike was from none less where Roy was from since the game was never released many places. Would losing any of the Fire Emblem characters be a particularly good thing, no not really, but I don't agree with the idea that keeping the same characters is necessarily the better choice either.

 

[Deleted member]

Gentlemen (and ladies), meet Karas.

Now, you might be thinking how a Tatsunoko anime character would be at all relevant to discussion on Lucina.

Here's the deal. Over my 4 day vacation from last Thursday to Sunday, I played Tatsunoko vs. Capcom for the first time in about a year.
While trying to relearn how to play as Karas with a Gamecube controller (I used to play with Wii Remote alone like a scrub), it dawned on me that his playstyle would fit Lucina to a great degree.

Think about it; everybody seems to envision Chrom as a middle-ground character in comparison to Marth and Ike. But what if Marth was the middle-ground?
In Awakening, Lucina is shown to be a very quick fighter, but can't really take as much a beating as Chrom.
This describes Karas' style in Tatsunoko vs. Capcom. He's got frigging fast attacks that are decently powerful, but he has low HP. In fact, the lowest HP in the game.
So what could this mean for Smash for Lucina? Having a lightning fast fighter that gets sent flying easy, one that focuses on ramping up damage and not giving the opponent breathing room, then setting up for the finishing blow.

Just a small example of what I mean:

In terms of Smash, this was somewhat expressed in a Lucina PSA that is being worked on (that I have posted the link to a while back):

While it's semi-cloned from Marth's moveset (though a separate PSA that is more unique will be worked on when this one is finished), this still gives a good visual, even if my idea is a bit more of an extreme form of it.

EDIT: And yes, I am aware my conceptual idea sounds similar to Meta Knight. But unlike Meta Knight, my idea is to have Lucina be less aerial based and not nearly as good on a recovery front.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Gentlemen (and ladies), meet Karas.

EDIT: And yes, I am aware my conceptual idea sounds similar to Meta Knight. But unlike Meta Knight, my idea is to have Lucina be less aerial based and not nearly as good on a recovery front.

So, A ground based meta knight-esque without the aerials being as cheap. It sounds good, because it makes her and Meta Knight be able to be like Lucas and Ness. Both similar in a certain way, but plays oppositely. Lucina having a better ground game, and Meta Knight having a better air game. So Meta Knight, could mostly get nerfed, so he isn't top tier. Sounds good.

 

[Edum Bot]

Thought I'd share my view on potential Lucina specials. Her regular attacks would obviously be based on her attacks in the cutscenes.

Up - B : Luna
Dashes through a target and deals damage. Can be in any direction. Breaks shields easily. One of two parts of Aether.

Side - B : Brave Slash
Just like Marth's Dancing Blade but with different attacks. Based on the Brave weapons.
http://i.imgur.com/gFn4Tzt.png

Neutral - B : Sol
Chargeable. The longer you charge it, the stronger it gets...and heals for more! Peformed after a jump in her line of sight. In other words, a jump attack. One of two parts of Aether. Can be linked to Luna.

Down - B : Counter
Unlike previous counters, Lucina doesn't stand still and then attacks with invicibilty. Instead, she moves behind her attacker and hits them with Falchion. She uses this move in a cutscene against a Risen.


Final Smash : Exalted Falchion
Lucina peforms the Awakening, giving her extra power for a short time. All her attacks become stronger in terms of power and knockback (knockback only counts towards the last attack of Brave Slash).

 

[Seraphim.]

Just got done finishing Awakening, and I've taken a liking to Lucina. Although Roy is still my favorite lord and I would still rather have him come back, if I had to choose between Chrom and Lucina I would go with Lucina she interested me more during the game than Chrom did.

 

[Zigzagar]

Replacing Marth is impossible here is why:
-Marth was in Melee
-Marth is the mascot of Fire Emblem
-Marth is too popular
-Marth is too important as a longstanding Nintendo Character

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Replacing Marth is impossible here is why:
-Marth was in Melee
-Marth is the mascot of Fire Emblem
-Marth is too popular
-Marth is too important as a longstanding Nintendo Character

Who says she has to replace Marth, they may seem similar, but in actuality they have different fighting styles and overall costume design is different.

 

[Zigzagar]

Who says she has to replace Marth, they may seem similar, but in actuality they have different fighting styles and overall costume design is different.

This is on the post
"I have no motive to suggest what her moves would be, but I might suggest that it could be similar to marth's, similar to how Roy played in melee. You guys have anything in mind about this character? Is she good enough to REPLACE MARTH, or maybe ike? You discuss. I'll be putting up some other info at a later time."
And I was trying to say it was impossible because of those reasons said before.
-Marth was in Melee
-Marth is the mascot of Fire Emblem
-Marth is too popular
-Marth is too important as a longstanding Nintendo Character

 

[jaytalks]

This is on the post
"I have no motive to suggest what her moves would be, but I might suggest that it could be similar to marth's, similar to how Roy played in melee. You guys have anything in mind about this character? Is she good enough to REPLACE MARTH, or maybe ike? You discuss. I'll be putting up some other info at a later time."
And I was trying to say it was impossible because of those reasons said before.
-Marth was in Melee
-Marth is the mascot of Fire Emblem
-Marth is too popular
-Marth is too important as a longstanding Nintendo Character

Honestly, the OP hasn't been changed in a while.

Most people active on the thread advocate for Lucina as the third Fire Emblem rep.
I do however, think Fire Emblem does not have a mascot character. It's mascot is probably the Falchion. At least it's the closest thing. It's like Final Fantasy. The Black Mage isn't the mascot. Neither is Cecil, Cloud, a Moogle, or Titus. The series doesn't subsribe to a mascot like Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon does. Marth has only appeared in 2 out 11 original games. (There are of course the 2 DS remakes). The series does not receive validation from Smash Bros on who it's mascot is. It's fine not having a mascot, as it's a generational series.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I do however, think Fire Emblem does not have a mascot character. It's mascot is probably the Falchion.

Except the Falchion only appears in 5 or 6 games(depending on whether or not you count the Gaiden Falchion)

 

[Nado]

Replacing Marth is impossible here is why:
-Marth was in Melee
-Marth is the mascot of Fire Emblem
-Marth is too popular
-Marth is too important as a longstanding Nintendo Character

Idk how valid that argument is. Mewtwo had all the same things going for him and he got replaced with a more a current popular character. I don't think Marth gets cut but I don't think its impossible especially when the character that could potentially replace him, looks identical to him + a butterfly mask. I have to kinda think that if the character is named masked marth on the main page and then has the ability to switch to Lucina via some move or final smash that people who don't play fire emblem wouldn't even know its a new character.

 

[Hong]

I try to be reasonable.

I don't think Marth being replaced is as ridiculous as people make it out to be. If IS really wanted Lucina in the game and they wanted characters to make the product feel "new", it could be a very natural flow of events. As important as it is to bring back classic characters, the new design direction would make it difficult for them to make worthwhile new addition. The new direction of focusing on more meaningful additions is fine, but whether I like it or not, I acknowledge the fact that they will want new characters to make the product actually feel new. Simply making Marth into "Marth" has so many hype possibilities to get people excited, and honestly if she comes with a decent trailer I am sure the majority would be able to overlook Marth's replacement. Most people don't even know who Marth even is, to this day.

Bear in mind that I am simply saying it as it is. Marth is by far and wide my favourite Fire Emblem lead, so I am not saying it out of preference. I like both characters, but I don't need to have the characters I like in Smash Bros to be happy... As long as I am having fun.

 

[Zigzagar]

I try to be reasonable.

I don't think Marth being replaced is as ridiculous as people make it out to be. If IS really wanted Lucina in the game and they wanted characters to make the product feel "new", it could be a very natural flow of events. As important as it is to bring back classic characters, the new design direction would make it difficult for them to make worthwhile new addition. The new direction of focusing on more meaningful additions is fine, but whether I like it or not, I acknowledge the fact that they will want new characters to make the product actually feel new. Simply making Marth into "Marth" has so many hype possibilities to get people excited, and honestly if she comes with a decent trailer I am sure the majority would be able to overlook Marth's replacement. Most people DON'T EVEN KNOW who Marth even is, to this day.

Bear in mind that I am simply saying it as it is. Marth is by far and wide my favourite Fire Emblem lead, so I am not saying it out of preference. I like both characters, but I don't need to have the characters I like in Smash Bros to be happy... As long as I am having fun.

How do most people not know who Marth is? He was in Melee, he RETURNED in Brawl, we have Shadow Dragon, and we have Marth mentioned and as a DLC character in awakening

If Marth wasn't the mascot why would he be in melee why would he return in brawl so those reasons make Marth definitely return

 

[FlareHabanero]

How do most people not know who Marth is? He was in Melee, he RETURNED in Brawl, we have Shadow Dragon, and we have Marth mentioned and as a DLC character in awakening

The same reason why there is a surprising amount of people that aren't familiar with 90% of the roster. Basically being oblivious.

 

[Hong]

How do most people not know who Marth is? He was in Melee, he RETURNED in Brawl, we have Shadow Dragon, and we have Marth mentioned and as a DLC character in awakening

If Marth wasn't the mascot why would he be in melee why would he return in brawl so those reasons make Marth definitely return

Playing Marth in Smash Bros is not even knowing who he is. Most people just pick the character that they think is strongest or has the gameplay that is most fun for them. To actually know Marth would be to know his tale, or at least the general gist of it.

 

[Nado]

How do most people not know who Marth is? He was in Melee, he RETURNED in Brawl, we have Shadow Dragon, and we have Marth mentioned and as a DLC character in awakening

If Marth wasn't the mascot why would he be in melee why would he return in brawl so those reasons make Marth definitely return

If the character is named Marth with a mask on(Masked Marth, "Marth" etc.), theres a good chance people wouldn't even know its not actually Marth. I find a lot of people who haven't played fire emblem mistake Marth for a girl anyways.

Also in the game aspects Marths games haven't been doing that great. His heroes of light and darkness game was so unpopular it wasn't released in the U.S. And his other recent game, shadow dragon, was pretty awful. Also every main character of every fire emblem game ever was in the awakening dlc so it wasnt a big deal or a surprise he was in the dlc.

Doubt he'd get cut but impossible eh. Id say he's more like 80 percent likely to be back.