Thread updated! It's time to take a trip down to Hyrule and face off against the man in the green tunic!
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Adding to my original analysis. With customs, the match-up becomes way easier. I have plenty of games with custom moves on against Link and Dash Assault does wonders in the match-up. It's way easier to get in the range you need to be to cut Link's options. In all honesty, while I still believe Link has the advantage it would be closer to a 45-55 match-up. Lucina's recovery becomes even better with just Dash Assault alone. Adding upB3 makes it even better.maybe in customs-land.
He has zair, nuff' said. Unless Lucina is fairing right on top of him in a way where he can't hop out and beat it out, zair outranges her fair completely. Lots of people tend to forget that tool exists. lolHe doesn't really have any answer to full hop fair (his mobility doesn't let him capitalise on having 3 projectiles in an area at once like Toon Link, and he can't really dash forward and try to do anything either) that I've seen except maybe in customs-land.
Eh, I don't think these were the best example of the matchup tbh. Elessar kinda threw out moves randomly and got punished for them (sideB and counter), while thedoctr over-committed on a lot of "followups". His dair edgeguard was really good, though.Hey I just posted that you guys were looking for Link matchup vs Lucina in the group social, hopefully you'll get more people talking here.
Also this thread is really good.
Here's some vids from our video thread.
Powerstar9 vs. Elessar [1 on FD G&W] - http://youtu.be/iWom_6zhlR8
Powerstar9 vs. Elessar [2 on FD G&W] - http://youtu.be/HNKynRg-Kd0
Powerstar9 vs. Elessar [3 on Battlefield] - http://youtu.be/ec_MhcL91SE
thedoctr vs. Mike
http://youtu.be/OI28t51UpKs
Reevaluation?Rosa stuff: (Tested mostly by me, write up courtesy of Xaltis)
Rosalina:
Nair damage got a slight nerf in percent it does.
Grab got a cooldown increase
Down Smash cooldown increase
Forward Smash Slight start up Increase? (We couldn't get a 100% for sure answer on this)
Luma:
Gains 15 more HP
Shoots a shorter distance with fully charge Luma shot. (Which is better)
Comes back faster when you call him back.
Luma shot got cooldown decrease.
Can still break grabs.
Doesn't do anything that the Wii U help tip says about him.
On stages with walls that go all the way down. (Yoshi's Island Brawl, and other Omegas) if Luma doesn't make it back to the stage with his 3 jumps, he will fall to his death, but on stages with these walls instead of dying, he glitches back to the middle of the stage.
Lucina and Marth both have the same run speed and walk speed. You can find any differences, similarities between them here.I've heard that Lucina has a much better time dealing with campers than Marth does, given that she is faster and can afford to play aggressively, though I could be wrong. I'd say the match up vs is like 35 - 65 in Rosalina's favor.
FWIW I didn't notice a massive difference in my brief For Glory stint after the update. Luma took a bit longer to come back but Rosalina can play defense just fine on her own. The rest of the nerfs...eh, maybe? I'm more interested in the removal of vectoring, that'll open up a lot of possibilities for everyone.Well I mean, Rosalina actually gets punished now for over extending with Luma now, aka the way it was supposed to be from the beginning. So there's that at least!
There has not been much discussion on Rosalina & Luma here. Hopefully, in the future, we will get more discussion going on as more tournament results, experience, etc., start coming in.Any thoughts on what advantages Lucina could have on Rosalina that would make a top-level player claim she has an advantage in the matchup?
When I see you again, let's mm brawl marth ditto. I've actually been priding myself on being great at the Marth ditto and have been challenging every competent marth I can find, and winning to boot. I actually like Marth dittoes, I dont get the hate haha, I trust my spacing to get me throughI think in reality, without customs around, it's probably 65-35 Marth's favour, if not worse. Customs help even it out considerably as dash assault can be played to its strength and doesn't benefit one character over the other. But even then... yuck...
It's almost impossible not to trade hits in Marth dittos, it's what makes them stupidly fun, scary and dumb at the same time, when the power of a tipper that looms over your general reach that can kill well before your current actions; I've probably played tens of thousands of Marth dittos and this dynamic of "any miss use of commitment is perfectly spacing yourself for getting killed as early as half the percent I'm currently at" is what defines it, and when one character has that while the other does not... Lucina feels excruciatingly gimped.
If you're a better Marth player, than you can out play your opponent with Lucina no problem, you're likely a better spacer and can continually punish/out do them in such a way that the tipper advantage is nullified. But the moment I think of two even-ish players, I see almost no hope for her.
I legitimately would not be surprised if Marth ends up being one of if not Lucina's worst match up in the game. The risk/reward factor at both character's optimal play is just disgustingly skewed in Marth's favour.
If you experience this match up just once in tournament I would not be surprised if you swear off it forever. Enough Marth mains past and present outright refuse to play Marth dittos in tournament because of how volatile they are due to tippers; I really cannot see why you would want to put yourself through it ever when you cannot do the same thing back to him.
And on a personal level, Marth dittos would have to be close to my most played match up throughout my entire smash history. I decided early on I would play it in tournament and that I refuse on my pride to ever lose one. it takes a lot of work to be confident enough to play a match up that is ultimately extremely close to gambling 50/50s with your stock on every action you take.