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Lucas' Weekly Matchup Discussion Review - Diddy

Levitas

the moon
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
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Ann Arbor, MI
I don't see all that much disagreement on the numbers.

Maybe I'm imagining things, but nobody's strongly contradicted a 6:4, except maybe OS, but he hasn't been back here in a while.
 

Noraa

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
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Laurel, Md
he flys back....nothing amazing?
he lazers good job 2 damage, start pkt again before he can recharge and do some damage.
like i said go practice, go to a tourny, you will only learn with experience
 

~Pink Fresh~

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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he flys back....nothing amazing?
he lazers good job 2 damage, start pkt again before he can recharge and do some damage.
like i said go practice, go to a tourny, you will only learn with experience
uhm...
what about the other three things i listed?
i can even disprove you're little start another one idea. you start PKT, then he shoots a laser at you, and gets closer to the stage. you start another one, then he shoots a gyro. by that time he'll already be too close for you to start another one. lol @ you trying so hard to make me seem like i don't know what i'm talking about.
do you have anything else that makes us able to use PKT and inflict damage while he's off-stage?
 

DemonicTrilogy

Smash Lord
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Jun 23, 2008
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That's for me to know
This is why I use Dair to guard. If you see him coming to the ledge from under and the ledge is on a lip, you can fair him into the stage to stage spike him and make him use even more Robo fuel.
 

~Pink Fresh~

Smash Master
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This is why I use Dair to guard. If you see him coming to the ledge from under and the ledge is on a lip, you can fair him into the stage to stage spike him and make him use even more Robo fuel.
hmm may work sometimes. rising fair would easily take care of our dair unless we spaced it perfectly
 

fox219

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
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As you may or may not already know, Matchups are very important in Brawl. And as you all know, the matchup chart is in dire need of input.

Therefore, it is up to we, the Lucas community, to ensure the accuracy of the matchup chart, and to give tips to future Lucas players, so that we may triumph in the future.


A few simple rules:


1. Make sure any facts you state are, in fact, facts.
2. Be polite. We need not fight amongst ourselves.
3. Please, only discuss the character we are currently discussing. No need to get off topic.


Now for our Thirtieth Fighter, :rob:ROB, the Robotic Operating Buddy, and piece of Nintendo hardware.

My Thought: 45-55. ROB is big, ROB is heavy, ROB is Nair bait. Unfortunately, beyond that, he's pretty **** solid. He has an incredible DSmash, a very hard to gimp recovery, and a projectile game that can't all be stopped by the Magnet, and a nice air game. Thank god he doesn't have alot of KO power.

Please, discuss.


Also, if you have a request on what character to look into next, please PM me. Do not make a post about it.


Past Weeks:

:falcon:1: Captain Falcon: 7-3. While Captain Falcon can pull out a few suprises, we can outrange, out power, and outspace him on every account. We can ruin his approach options with F-tilt, out Nair out prioritizes his aerials, and we can gimp his recovery with PK Thunder. If you lose, it's because of a vast skill difference.

:ness2:2. Ness: 40-60. Ness completely cancels out our Projectile game with Psi Magent. Fortunately, we can do the same thing. Whioch means this fight is very much a close range fight. And Ness possess a faster close range game, and his aerial game exceeds ours. Fortunately, our ground game is much more powerful, and that is why trhe important thing here is to keep Ness grounded. And don't shield too much, because Ness has the tendency of grabbing people and killing them with a single Back Throw.

:metaknight:3. Metaknight: 35-65. Metaknight is the best character in the game. There's very little doubt about that. He has so many approach options that it's ridiculous. And all of his moves have no lag at all. And he is **** near ungimpable. However, you still have options available to you to combat Metaknight. The important thing is that you have projectiles, something Metaknight lacks.Also, your PK Fire will cancel out his Mach Tornado, so you should be using that liberally in this matchup. Your FSmash is also your best friend here, as it's your fastest KO move in your arsenal. Luckily, you can KO Metaknight at very early percentages, due to his lack of weight. However, if you don't Star KO him, he will make it back. Even so, PK Thunder is an excellent option, if only for racking up damage and removing diminishing returns from your other moves. In the air, your Nair is your best option, due to how fast it is, and how big the hitbox is. Grabbing out of shield is very difficult, due to the slow nature of Lucas' grab, but your jab combo out of shield is very reliable, and is actually just as fast as Metaknight's moves (Hit box starts on frame 2, making it the third fastest jab combo is the game) The secret to this matchup is to make sure you never give Metaknight the chance to start juggling you. Do that, and you'll live.


:pikachu2:4. Pikachu: 50-50. We outrange, outprioritze, and out projectile Pikachu, and we can make one of his best KO moves (Thunder) useless. The reason this stays even is the fact that Pikachu is faster than us, not only in movement, but in how fast his attacks come out. Just space properly, and always be ready to use your PSI magnet.

:marth:5. Marth: 30-70. Yeah, this matchup sucks. Marth has an answer to everything you got. He outranges and outpowers you at close range, and he can easily get through your long range game. But even so, your long range game still makes an effective brink wall for Marth to geth through. You'll want to play a giant game of keep away, because Marth will pwn you up close. Also remember that your jab combo and your FTilt are your best close range options, and that your smash attacks should only be used as punishments for missed smash attacks. Once Marth gets off the stage, you should immediately go for the gimp via PK Thunder. I mean, marth's recovery sucks, and you should be abusing the hell out of it. Unfortuntely, marth aerial game is powerful enough to go for the gimp against you as well. Seriously, good luck.

:dedede:6. King Dedede: 55-45. Hail to the king and his mighty chain grab, for it can, and will, rack up lots of damage. Fortunately, we can space with PK Fire. Also,our jab combo is faster than anything D3 can pull off. And, due to D3's wait an fast fall speed, D3 becomes one giant target while in the air. Also, while D3 is offstage, immediately start PK Thundering him. You're not gonna gimp him. You're gonna force him to use his UP B to recover, which can easily be punished by your Up Smash. Remember: Spacing is everything in this matchup.

:wario:7. Wario: 50-50. Wario, once he gets within range, can pwn you. Lucas, luckily, had enough tools in his arsenal to stop this from happening. After all, Wario's range sucks, and you have projectiles, aerials with good priority, and smash attacks with range on them. However, by no means does this make Wario an easy opponent. Once Wario starts hurting, he will keep it up. Also, avoid using PK Thunder to recover, as it makes you an easy target, due to Wario's amazing horizontal DI. Wario, however, is also a nice gimop, thanks to the fact that PK Thunder can knock him off his bike and into the abyss. And if Wario needs to use him up B to recover, we can pull out our DSmash to knock him away from the edge, since his UP B doesn't auto sweetspoit ledges. Just keep Wario out of range, and you're good.

:bowser2:8. Bowser: 6-4. Offensively speaking, Bowser and Lucas can royally screw eachother over. Lucas can juggle and gimp Bowser, and Bowser and grab release chain grab, or grab release to a strong attack. Thus, the main difference comes from how easily one can avoid the screwing, which Lucas can do easily. Lucas can keep Bowser far away easily with his projectile game, and he can keep Bowser is the air with constant Nairing. Stay away, stay aerial, and stay on the move.


:ike:9. Ike: 60-40. Ike has alot of range, alot of power, and he's pretty heavy. But his recover and approach options stink, and Lucas is very capable of abusing both of those. The most important tool in this matchup are properly spaced PK Fires. Also, the moment Ike misses with an attack is when you should immediately rush in for a counterattack, as Ike has quite a bit of lag after alot of his attacks. Once you get Ike offstage, use your projectile of choice (Freeze and Fire for Side B recovery, Thunder for Up B recovery) to gimp him (Which is incredibly easy). Basically, just be defensive, taking every advantage you got. Be warned that a missed Up Smash will earn you a FSmash to the face, which in perfectly capable of KOing you at around the 50% mark.

:jigglypuff:10: Jigglypuff: 65-35. Jigglypuff's ground game sucks. We can easily overpower and damage her on the ground. In the air, she may have faster aerials, but we have priority and strength and slightly more range. We can also force approaches with our projectile game. And she's incredibly light, allowing easy KOs. The only reason this isn't a hue disadvantage is because of the WOP. The moment you end up off the stage, Jigglypuff has a slight advantage. Your PK Thunder is troo slow to recover with. Stick with Zap Jumping and tether recovery and you should be fine.

:ganondorf:11: Ganondorf: 60-40. This summary courtesy of Swoops:



:gw:12. Mr. Game & Watch: 20-80. Mr. Game & Watch is the best reason for a Lucas mainer to have a secondary. I mean, even with marth you can just counterpick Norfair or Brinstar and be able to take advantage of the geography, but you can't do that with GW. He completely shuts down your projectile game, he outdoes your aerial game, and he beats out your ground game. And he can DThrow to DSmash you with no chance of you escaping. And his recovery is **** near ungimpable (Seriously, I've gimped more Meraknights that I have Mr. Game & Watches) Seriously, good friggin luck.

:snake:13. Snake: 40-60. Your AAA combo is faster that every close range attacks he has, and your Nair make life incredibly hard for Snake.. These are the cardinal rules for this matchup, because your only hope of winning is to get up close. His camping game is very powerful. His grenades will quickly put you to KO percentage. Luckily, though, your PK Fire will explode any grenades Snake happens to be holding, so SH PK Fires actually make a good approach. Once you get in, start Nairing and Jabbing to build up damage. Beware, though, because Snake's tilts are powerful as hell. Once you get Snake offstage, you have two options. You can hit him with Pl THunder (Which is good) or Bair spike him (Which is the best option). Also, it is very possible to Destroy a Snake that recovers high by hitting off the top of thre stage with PK Thunder. Remember: The moment you stop attacking is the moment you lose.

:wolf:14. Wolf: 40-60. Wolf has the edge on the ground, no question. He shines away your projectiles, and his blaster outranges your PK Fire and is just fast enough to be a nuisance. And the moment you do a move that's even remotely laggy will lead to a FSmash in the face. In the air, Wolf once again can keep you away with his superior Bair. However, once you get past all of that, what do you? A fighter ehavy and fastfally enough to get comboed alot, which brings the cardinal rule of this matchup. You have to stay offensive, and you have to make it fast. I call this a Blitzkrieg matchup.

:luigi2:15. Luigi: 60-40. The Key here is spacing. Luigi has some impressive power, some very nice priority, and one of the strongest moves in the game in his arsenal, but fact is is that a good Lucas can keep Luigi away. I mean, once Luigi gets in, he can keep it up, but a Nair can mess that up. Also, Luigi's Recovery, while good, is very vulnerable to PK Thunder, allwing a rather easy gimp.

:samus2:16: Samus: 55-45. Samus, at long range, will outcamp and outspam you. At midrange, Samus will Zair you to death. Thus our route of attack is clear: Point Blank Range. Your Jab Combo and the Ftilt will be your main means of racking up damage, due to the speed in which they come out. Your Dair and Nair are your aerials of choice, because Samus is tall enough and heavy enough to be comboed by them. Do not attempt to spike Samus when she is recovering. PK Thunder is your best option. Never let Samus have a moment of peace.

:popo:17. Ice Climbers: 50-50. There are three basic rules to fighting the Ice Climbers: Divide, Kill, Conquer. You must split up the Ice Climbers (Your Nair is perfect for this) than you must kill Nana (Due to lousy AI, this should be easy) and than you must conquer. But remember, you get grabbed under the right conditions (and a good IC player will make sure the conditions are right) and you'll a stock. They will force approached by using their Ice Blocks. Fortunately, your FSmash can reflect these guys back, and they're slow enough that the timing is easy. If you are on the attack, they will shield grab, so always retreat your aerials. They will use the Blizzard to set up grabs, but your PSI magnet will absorb it. Remember: Everything the Ice Climbers can do has a solution. But alwaqys remember that everything you do has a solution as well.

:fox:18. Fox: 60-40. DEFENSE!!!! *ch-ch-ch* DEFENSE!!!! *ch-ch-ch* Serously though, this is a machup where defense will be your route to victory. Fox will be forced to approach, due to your PSI Magnet. And the Foxes approach options are almost pretty bad. Combine that with the fact that we can outprioritize most of Foxes stuff, and we can win. The only real concern is that Fox can gimp us if we have to use PK Thunder with his reflector, so be sure to use that Zap Jump and Wavebounce everybody.

:toonlink:19. Toon Link: 40-60. This guy out Lucases Lucas. He manages to have a **** good projectile game that is completely unmagentable, and he also has a good aerials game. And he has a sword, which means priority on the ground and some range. Thankfully though, it's short sword, meaning his defensive game isn't on the same level as other sword users. You have to get close, and you have to kill him before he kills you. Oh, and due to the nature of TL's recovery, PK Thunder isn't suggested. Good luck getting the spike. You'll need it.

:dk2:20. Donky Kong: 25-75. DK is a powerhouse. He can kill you at uncomfortably low percents, he has really good range on all of his attack, he doesn't get KOed until uncomfortable high percents, his recovery is alot harder to gimp than it looks like it would be, and he has an unescapable Cargo grab release to DSmash. You have to be on the offensive, because at long range, DK can just avoid your projectiles, and at mid range, DK can FTilt you to heck. No, CQC style combat is needed here, and your jab combo and Nair are your moves of choice, for their speed and their damage building qualities. I would honestly attempt to keep your kill moves fresh, due to DKs immense weight. As for Gimping, PK Thunder doesn't work, since DK's horizontal recovery is so powerul, and Bairing him is diffcult do to range issues. Surprisingly though, PK Freeze is suggested, due to the straight forward nature of DK recovery. All in all, I'd rather fight Marth.

:pit:21. Pit: 45-55. Summary up soon.

:lucario:22. Lucario: 40-60. Summary up soon.

:sonic:23. Sonic: 55-45. Summary up soon.

:peach:24. Peach: 40-60. Summary up soon.

:olimar:25. Olimar: ???

:pt:26. :squirtle:45-55 :ivysaur:50-50 :charizard:55-45 Overall 50-50

:falco:27. Falco: 50-50. Summary up soon.

:didy:28. Diddy: 45-55. Summary up soon.

:yoshi:29. Yoshi. 40-60. Summary up soon.

Next week's hint: Whoever gets suggested.
:rob: = robot operation bi*ch
 

heytallman

CTALL
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
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Gravity Falls, OR
Well, here's what I know about Link:

Link, he comes to town.
Come to save the Princess Zelda.
Ganon took her away, now the children don't play.
But they will when Link saves the day
HALLELUJAH!!!!

Srsly though, I think this one might be a bit in Link's favor. I played a Link at the last tournament I went to, and he did rather well. Another Link told me that he thinks it's in Link's favor, but not by much (why are there so many Links in Houston? lol) Arrow + bomb camping is too good, messes up PK fire and whatnot, and forces you to approach. Edgeguarding is VERY easy though (as it probably is for any other character to edgeguard Link lol). Dair seems to work very well in this matchup (it did for me, at least). Just try to stay in his face, and you will be fine.

I say 55-45 in Link's favor.
 

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
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His recovery is **** so when you get him off stage just use PKT to keep him off.
Because of course that is the first post, every time.

Here, Izaw's matches vs Serpit.

Izaw(Link) vs Serpit(Lucas) 1
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj9Dbzb3_JY

Izaw(Link) vs Serpit(Lucas) 2
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=UmTWTsVKk64

Izaw(Link) vs Serpit(Lucas) 3
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=zzZ7mAmlhGQ

Izaw(Link) vs Serpit(Lucas) 4
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=r9FD07i0Wm4

Izaw(Link) vs Serpit(Lucas) 5
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=b6NhdYmbJfI

Lucas wins. Go, be happy, end discussion.
 

Metro Knight

Smash Ace
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Mar 27, 2008
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Mississippi
Well, despite Serpit doing well versus Izaw. I would have to say Lucas is at 45:55 for this match-up.

After playing my brother's Lucas, oh 1000 times. It isn't to hard of a match-up for Link. Most of Lucas' attacks you can shield and punish. However, few things to remember as Lucas versus Link. If he likes to airdodge, use your upsmash, it has that nasty duration at the end, and that move can punish a Link who isn't aware of it. Also, use your dmash versus people who love to dodge/roll. I generally cut down on my spot dodging/rolling versus Lucas b/c of the dsmash. Your Fsmash is faster than Link's fsmash. Umm... the upthrow -> utilt combo works well versus Link. Gimping Link with PK thunder while he is off the stage is really good. Against a good Link you are going to have problems spiking him, at least for me I can DI safely to the stage pretty safely these days, though the dair is annoying if I try and go to low, but generally I can throw a f-AIR or a gale to safe myself from any spikes. Link has a better pojectile game in my opinion, even though Lucas has a very good projectile game himself, but Link just has too many angles he can come at you with. Oh, and be careful while recovering, even though Lucas can get some distance, a Link who knows this match up well can try and destroy your ball with an arrow or do other annoying things. This is a pretty close match, I think it is slightly in Link's favor though.
 

Levitas

the moon
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Jul 20, 2007
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And I think you're wrong.

Bombs should be avoided, arrows and boomerangs can be batted back easily. Meanwhile, PK fire forces an approach decently.

Link dies quickly with his poor recovery. Lucas dies late because he can recover really well.

I don't know many of the finer points here, though.
 

_clinton

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,189
Lucas wins. Go, be happy, end discussion.
:psycho:

Anyway...
I find that good Links can be quite hard to fight overall...

and from what I saw...PK Fire in those videos screwed over a lot of Link's Zair game as well...

And I wouldn't say Lucas dies late because of his good recover...after all, A well placed Dair from Link can be just as deadly as an Usmash from Lucas...

Plus as from what you could see in most of those videos...it's not like Link wants to fight by the edge...

I'm thinking 55-45 Lucas...
 

Crow!

Smash Lord
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Columbus, OH
Lucas' long range, disjointed attacks annoy Link significantly. The usual midair hijinks don't work nearly as well, and without that we have some difficulty staying in control. The worst part is that Lucas is so short.. it makes Zair much harder to pull off.

On the plus side, bombs are still amazing, and Link has a sufficiently long range to punish Lucas on the ground whenever he does something that is predicted.
 

soccerdude7200

Smash Journeyman
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Oct 4, 2008
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222
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Illinois
it is honestly not very easy to get a good link with pkthunder off stage. He will just throw a boomerang, it will cancel your pkthunder, and he will recover safely.
So plz dont argue how easy it is to gimp link too much :)
k?
 

soccerdude7200

Smash Journeyman
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Oct 4, 2008
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Illinois
PKT Maneuverability>Linear boomerang.
Well the boomerang can be controlled to go up or down slightly.

And if the boomerang hits you, then you will no longer be doing a pkt.

PKT is also not super fast, like ness's, so it is not that simple to just manuever around the boomerang and still get to link in time before he recovers.
 

GotenOnNimbus

Smash Apprentice
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Sep 9, 2008
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Denver, CO
Well the boomerang can be controlled to go up or down slightly.

And if the boomerang hits you, then you will no longer be doing a pkt.

PKT is also not super fast, like ness's, so it is not that simple to just manuever around the boomerang and still get to link in time before he recovers.
I start PKT as soon as Link leaves the ground near the edge and follow him while he's in hitstun. Since Link falls pretty fast, the more wasted time in the air, the better.

His anti-edgeguarding game is not that great in the least...You can fire off a few arrows, pull a bomb, or throw your boomer....and that's if it's a high recovery. It's almost as if Lucas could jump out after Link, air dodge the first projectile, and KO with a PSI Magnet shock. >_>
 

~Pink Fresh~

Smash Master
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it is honestly not very easy to get a good link with pkthunder off stage. He will just throw a boomerang, it will cancel your pkthunder, and he will recover safely.
So plz dont argue how easy it is to gimp link too much :)
k?
lol
actually it is. he would have to be close to the stage for the boomerang to "hit" you. if he's far the boomerang will just push you and you'll still be doing PKT.If you mean he will hit the head of PKT you must have a really good aim with that boomerang. we aren't talking about toon link's boomerang where the entire thing is a hitbox, we're talking about link where a small portion of it is the actual hitbox, and other are "windboxes". just move the PKT out of the way. it's not like he can throw it and control it. it's a linear projectile; the path is pretty predictable. he would also have to be quite high for him to do anything involving a projectile
 

soccerdude7200

Smash Journeyman
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but you have to be very precise as to where you hit link with your pkt, because if you hit him with the wrong part of the pkt, then it could possibly save him.
i play a good link main very often and he uses many tactics to prevent me from edge guarding, so i try to avoid using pkt to edge guard link too often...
:ohwell:
 

~Pink Fresh~

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ya
i didnt really say that it was only for link, but that is who were talking about right now, am i correct??
:urg:
The way you stated the sentence made it seem like it was character specific, when it really happens for all characters. My point being it doesn't really matter in a MATCHUP discussion.
 

soccerdude7200

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i suppose, it was just because link's recovery is so terrible that hitting him and saving him could end up being the difference between winning and losing.
 

~Pink Fresh~

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i suppose, it was just because link's recovery is so terrible that hitting him and saving him could end up being the difference between winning and losing.
this is a better way to put it. You pulled a specific character design [in this case a huge flaw] and said how something affects it. now i forgot what we were talking about in the first place lol. OH! It's hard to hit link in the wrong direction with PKT. A good lucas should be able to manuever his PKT well enough to gimp link. he doesn't have enough tools to stop Lucas from edgeguaring AND recover at the same time. he has to do one or the other unless he recovers from a very high point. Gimping link is too easy. PKT just works too well against him.
 

Noraa

Smash Lord
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i dont see the need to go through the cast even though we already know the match ups we need to work on.
We need to just stick to whats difficult and figure those out right now, or at least that is what i think at this very momnet.
 

~Pink Fresh~

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Kirby.
he's like the only respectable character left.
unless i'm missing somebody

Edit: maybe ZSS or Zelda/sheik. Mario and sonic can wait lol
 

Swordplay

Smash Lord
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Before you guys move on to Kirby or whoever I'll state some good info for you.

First of all I'll state some things that Lucas has going for him.

PK Thunder him offstage is a great idea. But watch out. Link may try to airdodge and DI back towards the stage. He may try to pull out a bomb and so if he gets hit in the air, which will give him a little more time. he can pray for a bomb jump. Link is heavy so go for a horizontal kill. With proper DI he has survived snake u-tilts at 140-160 range depending on the level. Next time you think Link is going to throw a boomerang at you. F-smash it and watch the wind carry him away.

You'll always want to recover with wavebouncing. If you don't, the wind effect from the gale may make you mess up the aim of your PK thunder. But still. Beware of flying Dairs. They will hurt badly.

Most characers have a problem with Links zair, this should not be the case with Lucas

Wave bouncing against Link. Link overall has a range advantage in his projectile game but a good waverbouncer can get in and cancel a projectile and get back out. Bombs can be caught and F-smashing the boomerang is a great idea. But do not think these will phase Link. Link does have a slight edge in his projectile game. Lucas has some good projectiles in his Freeze and thunder but you should know there weaknesses and how characters get past them. Link will do the same. Lucas should and will rely on wavebouncing and bounce around the stage making it hard for link capitalizing on opportunities of Links bad move set. The stage will often determine who wins the projectile game and who is forced to approach.

With Link, your going to see a lot of shield grabbing in this matchup. If lucas tries to use his smash moves. Link will often shield and wait for the lag at the end of the smash to shield grab. Most of Lucas's smashes don't push Link out of his grab range.

This is what Link will rely on in close combat. His sword. It has good range and he will try to take advantage of his few quick disjointed attacks such as D-smash and Jab. Link will often jab cancel which can lead to brutal combo's.

To avoid this. use your quickest disjointed attacks. Tilts and such are good. Go to the air for some more disjointedness.

Counterpicking is important. As I mentioned before, the stage often determines who wins the spam game. The looser of the spam game often is the approaches and is often the looser. Basic moving stages are the best thing. Pick stages like Lylat Cruise and pokemon stadium. Advanced moving stages arn't the best because Link has great stage control with bombs. This means while it seems like a good idea to pick RC don't. Don't pick Norfair either. Link has a slight advantage in projectiles on many neutral stages so stay away from those.

I just gave alot of points on lucas's advantages against Link but Link still has 2 basic principles that make it intresting. He is heavy. This means that unless he is gimped, hes not dieing early. With proper DI, you may not be able to gimp him as much as you think. The second thing is that Link does a bunch of damage per attack. For example, If you get hit with both of his F-smashes at early %'s, that could be 20+ damage and that is uncharged. If you get caught in some of his combo's you'll find yourself at 40% very quickly but thankfully for you, he can't combo well after that point.

All things considered I think it is a 50:50 matchup.
 

Levitas

the moon
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Location
Ann Arbor, MI
6:4.

Link is not only slower than lucas, but his anti camp game is worse, his projectiles can be marginally better, his range is better, he dies earlier, and he looks silly walking around with a night cap.

Link doesn't have solid countermeasures to lucas's game in the form of a good antiprojectile, nor in the form of an excellent rushdown game. He relies on outcamping a character that's good at fighting campers to the extent that he can make up for the fact that lucas dies later.

Yes, link's Dair kills. Yes, Lucas's Usmash doesn't kill as early as normal. Yes, this will make a difference in possibly 20% of the games for a stock loss.
 

NintenJoe

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
893
Location
Chicago, Illinois
5:5 Even match-up

PK Thunder can own Link, but boomerang can be used to either:

1. Hit Lucas and discontinue the PKT
2. Hit the PKT and allow Link to recover to the ledge

Gimping Potential: With magnet pull and wavebounced PKF, Lucas can recover to the ledge easily. If he uses PKT to recover, then he's likely to get it cancelled by the boomerang or gayed by a gale guard. I've done it quite a few times before. :p Link has very few options and even though Link can generally stop PKT, it will hit eventually.

Conclusion: Advantage Lucas

Link beats Lucas in range and lag time with almost all attacks.

Projectile game is about even if Lucas plays smart.

Camping: I hate it when people say Link always relies on camping. The truth is, he does against most characters, but against a character like Lucas Link just needs to space correctly because he has more overall range and less overall lag. Lucas can also use projectiles effectively to counter most of Link's approaches.

Conclusion: Equal match-up
 

~Pink Fresh~

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
4,180
Location
Maryland
5:5 Even match-up

PK Thunder can own Link, but boomerang can be used to either:

1. Hit Lucas and discontinue the PKT
2. Hit the PKT and allow Link to recover to the ledge

Gimping Potential: With magnet pull and wavebounced PKF, Lucas can recover to the ledge easily. If he uses PKT to recover, then he's likely to get it cancelled by the boomerang or gayed by a gale guard. I've done it quite a few times before. :p Link has very few options and even though Link can generally stop PKT, it will hit eventually.

Conclusion: Advantage Lucas

Link beats Lucas in range and lag time with almost all attacks.

Projectile game is about even if Lucas plays smart.

Camping: I hate it when people say Link always relies on camping. The truth is, he does against most characters, but against a character like Lucas Link just needs to space correctly because he has more overall range and less overall lag. Lucas can also use projectiles effectively to counter most of Link's approaches.

Conclusion: Equal match-up
lucas does not have more lag than link.
so about that kirby...?
 

Tyr_03

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
2,805
Location
OH
Why the **** are we still talking about this ****ty *** character??? Jesus Christ there are like 3 people in the whole ****ing country who play him and we have the ****ing advantage. It's not even a question for God's sake.

/character
 
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