Lucas, Roy, Ryu (1.0.8) Community Patch Notes

[Firefoxx]

Huh. So the effective change of Falcon's small F-Smash buff is that no angle and down angle can both kill 1% earlier, but up angled stays the same.

So Falcon's 1.0.8 f-smash KO %'s are
u - 91% n - 95% d - 100%

 

[Sonic Orochi]

fellow diddy kong player says.... hi

Although tbh that nerf is incredibly slight and the characters set ups flow or anything weren't touched, so....heck, even your down air and burning spin dash were buffed LOL

weknowthatfeel.png

Dair buff is awesome, I'll acknowledge that, but I don't even care that much about customs, though (I don't even know what that buff is, lol).

Also, BSD was already nerfed hard in 1.0.6 and isn't nearly as useful now.

 

[Peabnut Bubber]

How about we stop complaining about nerfs and drop our characters continue using the characters we love and get better with them

 

[Peabnut Bubber]

I double posted on mobile D:

 

[FallofBrawl]

Can we stop arguing about Sonic, not the thread for this.

 

[NipahAllDay]

How about we stop complaining about nerfs and drop our characters continue using the characters we love and get better with them

Agree.

 

[-RedX-]

How is that the keyword? A throw should never be a free ticket for the opponent to punish you. Pretty sure anyone with a fast tech-in-place can.

If only about 6 characters can punish Sonic for Dthrowing them, then it isn't that big of a deal, unless those 6 characters happen to be some of the best in the game then tough luck.
I've gotten regrabbed by Sonic after a Dthrow tech so I'm a bit skeptical.

 

[-RedX-]

dub post my B

 

[Sonic Orochi]

If people actually knew something about the MU before going "yay sanic nerf YES", I wouldn't even bother replying here.

It's just that.. we get so much **** just for maining a character, specially Sonic, that sometimes it just gets to you, eventually.

 

[FlynnCL]

Quick question, is every datamined difference going to be put onto the front page? There's also a few frame data differences such as Samus and Diddy's grab IASA alterations plus Mewtwo's neutral-air and Game and Watch's back-air landing reductions.

I suppose it'll take some time, aha.

 

[FallofBrawl]

Quick question, is every datamined difference going to be put onto the front page? There's also a few frame data differences such as Samus and Diddy's grab IASA alterations plus Mewtwo's neutral-air and Game and Watch's back-air landing reductions.

I suppose it'll take some time, aha.

You did some awesome work! I was just wondering have you tested ZSS and her landing lag/grab?

 

[Ghostbone]

Let's just hope that the next patch make the lower and mid tier characters a lot better and that would finally stop nerfing characters. I think we can agree with this.

Considering people keep complaining about top tiers and Sakurai's nerfing strategy seems to be based on whoever's winning japanese tournaments.....

I'd recommend people start dropping Sheik and ZSS

 

[FlynnCL]

You did some awesome work! I was just wondering have you tested ZSS and her landing lag/grab?

Thank you!

Just tested all her grabs, normals, specials and aerials. Everything is exactly the same in terms of IASA / landing.

 

[Unknownkid]

Considering people keep complaining about top tiers and Sakurai's nerfing strategy seems to be based on whoever's winning japanese tournaments.....

I'd recommend people start dropping Sheik and ZSS

Which is interesting since Sheik remain untouched and Villager got a buff (since the Balloon Trip nerf has not been confirm yet).

 

[Ghostbone]

Which is interesting since Sheik remain untouched and Villager got a buff (since the Balloon Trip nerf has not been confirm yet).

Well, they lag behind about a month.

Diddy and Falcon were nerfed because zero won that tournament over there a while back.

 

[Firefoxx]

Well, they lag behind about a month.

Diddy and Falcon were nerfed because zero won that tournament over there a while back.

Falcon wasn't nerfed, he's u-air was re-purposed. And Diddy won more tournaments that mattered than anyone else last patch. It wasn't just ZeRo

 

[FlynnCL]

Also, there's something bothering me about Ike's listed changes. I think forward-aerial did not get any landing reductions and the video showing it was just mis-timed.

I'm easily able to replicate results on Ike's up-air, down-air and neutral-air which has very obvious landing reductions. Ike's forward-aerial is exactly the same in landing, I'm 100% sure of it.

 

[Paper Maribro]

Which is interesting since Sheik remain untouched and Villager got a buff (since the Balloon Trip nerf has not been confirm yet).

This isn't the first time someone's said that it's "unconfirmed"

Crappy video I made:

@ Shaya Can you post that link in the first page or something so people don't keep saying it\s unconfirmed please?

 

[Eureka]

Which is interesting since Sheik remain untouched and Villager got a buff (since the Balloon Trip nerf has not be confirm yet).

That's the crazy thing that's throwing me off. How in the world did Shiek manage to get through this patch unscathed? Did all the top level Shiek mains arrange a secret meeting with Nintendo and payed them off so they wouldn't nerf their character? It's plain as day to see that Shiek is one of if not the best character in the game, and has been consistently dominating tournaments. I don't understand how a character that allows you to automatically win neutral just by virtue of playing that character against a not unsubstantial amount of match ups didn't get any sort of change.

 

[thehard]

Has Sheik really been dominating tournaments though? She really is quite tame as a top tier and I think her effects on the metagame are being exaggerated somewhat.

VSGC Results (no customs):

1) Shaky
2) ESAM
3) MVD
4) 8Bitman
5) Dath
5) NickRiddle
7) Phuzix
7) True Blue

 

[Karsticles]

Why even complain in this thread? No one here can change anything.

Two questions:
1) Did Mewtwo's Nair really get a recovery buff?
2) What the heck does the Mewtwo Usmash change mean? What does "-x" mean?

 

[Snokros]

lets be happy about the rest of the patch. cause it has a lot of good stuff in it.

 

[san.]

Also, there's something bothering me about Ike's listed changes. I think forward-aerial did not get any landing reductions and the video showing it was just mis-timed.

I'm easily able to replicate results on Ike's up-air, down-air and neutral-air which has very obvious landing reductions. Ike's forward-aerial is exactly the same in landing, I'm 100% sure of it.

How much lag did you record for dair just to be sure? Thanks!

 

[Attila_]

Can someone quantify the changes to falco's jab? I don't quite understand.

Someone pls

 

[Thinkaman]

This patch is rather on-point. If Sheik continues to be a potential outlier, then Sheik will be dealt with appropriately. Between that and Sheik not really being that bad (yeah, Needles are dumb and fair is really strong, but in the big picture), I'm not worried about Sheik. (Or anyone else)

 

[Eureka]

Has Sheik really been dominating tournaments though? She really is quite tame as a top tier and I think her effects on the metagame are being exaggerated somewhat.

I should point out that Shiek is the only character on that list who is listed more than once. Shiek has been a constant threat since day one and many people put her as the best character in the game. But to clarify what I said earlier, Sheik is not the only character dominating tournaments but she is definitely one of them. What really confuses me to why she didn't get nerfed though is that Shiek is at times simply not fun to play against. Take Marth for example, I absolutely hate playing Shiek as Marth. Marth can't wall her out due to the numerous tools she has to get in as well as a projectile to force Marth to approach, which is not what he wants to do. Whenever a character makes the game less fun to play that character usually gets nerfed, it's what happened with Rosalina in the first balance patch. Furthermore, Sakurai has gone on record saying he finds safe moves that slowly build up percent, Shiek's specialty, to be boring and not what Smash is about, so he'd have no reason to hold back. I guess I wouldn't be so stuck on that point if they didn't also nerf Falcon (Sakurai pls no moar) but I really like the rest of this patch, minus the Falcon and Diddy nerfs. It makes me smile to see the bottom and low tiers slowly shrink.

 

[thehard]

This patch is rather on-point. If Sheik continues to be a potential outlier, then Sheik will be dealt with appropriately. Between that and Sheik not really being that bad (yeah, Needles are dumb and fair is really strong, but in the big picture), I'm not worried about Sheik. (Or anyone else)

I don't know how you can say that when all these patches do are buff low tiers, nerf top tiers, fix bugs, add QoL improvements, fix stages, and generally speed up the game pace, with almost all of the focus being on 1v1, no items, multi-stage gameplay despite Smash as a whole encompassing many modes of play.

But seriously, Sakurai and his crew (un)surprisingly patch a lot better than a lot of other dev teams, some of which only have to care about one format of play anyway. I'm VERY pleased with these changes we're getting... minus the lack of patch notes.

But then again, if they were just handed to us... we'd never again have the satisfaction of giving a resounding "NO" to the 30th claim that Marth's fair "auto-cancels now". These threads are ART.

 

[FlynnCL]

How much lag did you record for dair just to be sure? Thanks!

I have reason to believe it's 24 frames. It has more landing than Link's up-air (23f), matches DK and Pits down-air (24f) but is faster than DK's up-air (25f). Unfortunately this is all I can do as I don't have a 60fps recording device.

If I was to do every one of Ike's aerials using comparisons between 2 devices, I get;

Neutral Aerial - 14 frames
Forward Aerial - 19 frames
Back Aerial - 19 frames
Up Aerial - 16 frames
Down Aerial - 24 frames

Still, I really need someone to check with a more accurate method.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

It's amazing how's Up Air went from being one of the best Up Air's to one of the worst in just a span of a few patches. Complaining really can do amazing things.

 

[Thinkaman]

I'll start compiling 1.0.4 -> 1.0.6 notes tomorrow. I have all the files parsed and ready for comparison.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Mii Brawler and Mii Gunner seem the same in terms of lag numbers. Mii Swordfighter is the real champ of this patch. Jab1 has less lag, likely in accordance to how much faster Jab 1 and its jab 2 followup are, which is two frames if I'm understanding correctly? So, faster transition and faster IASA. Ftilt and Dash attack have slightly reduced lag, one or two frames. Dsmash is reduced by about five or six. And Fair by about three. It's his only change in aerial landing lag.

I'll check on the Mii fighters non-default specials tomorrow, as well as other stuff I may have neglected during tests. But I'm not gonna check every character's customs unless I have a good reason for believing there's a change.

 

[Deleted member]

Sheik B-Air got nerfed or the sweet spot is way harder to hit.
8% -> 7% ?

EDIT : The SweetSpot for 8% is now the tip of the feet.

 

[Eureka]

It's amazing how's Up Air went from being one of the best Up Air's to one of the worst in just a span of a few patches. Complaining really can do amazing things.

I wouldn't say it's one of the worst, it's still a frame 4 up air that has good juggling capabilities. Many characters would be more than happy to have that up air.

 

[Z1GMA]

Ganon can't put as many ppl on platforms above him with grounded Gerudo, as he could pre-patch.
*Found by Ray Kalm.

 

[theanjo]

Sheik B-Air got nerfed or the sweet spot is way harder to hit.
8% -> 7% ?

Fairly certain that was a thing in 1.0.6, so that isn't new. The sweet spot isn't harder to land though.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Has frame canceling been removed? I've been trying to frame cancel Falco, Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, and Diddy Kong's D-airs on the 3ds version and I haven't been able to perform it yet for any of these characters.

 

[b2j135]

Falco is actually good again lol

 

[Vipermoon]

Has frame canceling been removed? I've been trying to frame cancel Falco, Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, and Diddy Kong's D-airs on the 3ds version and I haven't been able to perform it yet for any of these characters.

I hitlag-landed a Marth tipper Bair yesterday at a tourney so yeah it's in.

 

[BltzZ]

Has frame canceling been removed? I've been trying to frame cancel Falco, Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, and Diddy Kong's D-airs on the 3ds version and I haven't been able to perform it yet for any of these characters.

Na it's still in here, I did it with falco on for glory few hours ago

 

[Deleted member]

Fairly certain that was a thing in 1.0.6, so that isn't new. The sweet spot isn't harder to land though.

The B-Air SweetSpot is the tip of the feet now