Lucas, Roy, Ryu (1.0.8) Community Patch Notes

[Steeler]

Oh I came in here to say that Charizard's jab 1 wbkb has been increased.

What is the implication? That it picks people up more to help it true combo?

 

[Sonic Orochi]

THE SLIGHT USMASH NERF I ALWAYS DESPERATELY WANTED, THIS IS PERFECT. IT'S CHRISTMAS! I also like the dair change, assuming it wasn't like that before. That is the sort of stuff Sonic should be capable of; not low-% u-smash and throw kills, urg.

You guys just want Brawl Sonic back.. smh (so much hate)

His USmash was already slow enough to justify its power, but, yeah, the BS just never ends for us Sonic mains. Pretty sure we'll see some *****ing about his FSmash next.

 

[Cheeze Puff]

Samus's fully charged charge shot doesn't push her off the stage anymore

 

[Vipermoon]

BS? That Usmash was way too strong idc what anyone says

 

[Dogmaster]

The only thing I can think of is as bitmasks. Written in binary, they are 01111111 and 00001111 respectively.

Yep I think you got it. This looks like attack properties of some kind are stored in an 8bit variable which is really a bitfield. Every bit in 1 flags the attack with some sort of property perhaps. I dont have enough knowledge on smash mechanics to try to guess what they could be.

 

[NipahAllDay]

You guys just want Brawl Sonic back.. smh (so much hate)

His USmash was already slow enough to justify its power, but, yeah, the BS just never ends for us Sonic mains. Pretty sure we'll see some *****ing about his FSmash next.

I know that feel.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

What is the implication? That it picks people up more to help it true combo?

Pretty much, might want to see if you can get anything out of jab you couldn't before






Like grab.

 

[Mr.Random]

I've died at 80-90% to Sonic's upsmash as Mario. Plus rage amplifies it even more. That crap needed to be slightly toned down. It kills 10% later so it's not a major nerf.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Considering how Sonic has practically no viable KO setups and depends a lot on reads and whatnot, yes, it's a major nerf.

I mean, getting an USmash kill already required some reading because of how slow its startup is and how laggy it is.

The thing is that everyone will cheer whenever Sonic gets hit with the nerf stick, that's just how it is. BS.

Simply stating that the move is "too strong" isn't even good enough to be considered an argument.

 

[PandaEffect]

Considering how Sonic has practically no viable KO setups and depends a lot on reads and whatnot, yes, it's a major nerf.

I mean, getting an USmash kill already required some reading because of how slow its startup is and how laggy it is.

The thing is that everyone will cheer whenever Sonic gets hit with the nerf stick, that's just how it is. BS.

Simply stating that the move is "too strong" isn't even good enough to be considered an argument.

Dude, not many characters have kill setups or confirms in the first place, you can't act as if that's Sonic's weakness.

His neutral game is amazing and that up smash was the strongest in the game for no reason when he has a bunch of kill options that he doesn't have to commit dangerously at all already.

 

[-RedX-]

Nerfing KO power on a character who is incredibly hard to catch while being to able to rack up damage reliably seems fair to me.

 

[Vipermoon]

Considering how Sonic has practically no viable KO setups and depends a lot on reads and whatnot, yes, it's a major nerf.

I mean, getting an USmash kill already required some reading because of how slow its startup is and how laggy it is.

The thing is that everyone will cheer whenever Sonic gets hit with the nerf stick, that's just how it is. BS.

Simply stating that the move is "too strong" isn't even good enough to be considered an argument.

You say Nerf. I say Bug Fix.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

His neutral game is amazing and that up smash was the strongest in the game for no reason when he has a bunch of kill options that he doesn't have to commit dangerously at all already.

Please do post about this bunch of safe kill options on the Sonic boards. I'm sure everyone would like to know more.

Nerfing KO power on a character who is incredibly hard to catch while being to able to rack up damage reliably seems fair to me.

Any examples? On that "rack up damage reliably" part, I mean. I'm pretty sure all of them can be remedied with some "know the MU" and "git gud", though.

 

[Ghostbone]

Considering how Sonic has practically no viable KO setups and depends a lot on reads and whatnot

This applies to most of the good characters in this game lmao, sonic has it better than most.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

This applies to most of the good characters in this game lmao, sonic has it better than most.

Worst top tier ever, tho.

 

[Ghostbone]

Worst top tier ever, tho.

All the top tiers in this game suck since the 1.0.4-1.06 nerfs.

It's sad how low the power level of smash 4 characters is compared to previous games.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Samus's fully charged charge shot doesn't push her off the stage anymore

Can confirm, but this is also part of the game engine change where certain specials will no longer slide you off the platform.

None of his other aerials were touched then? BAir still has a ton of lag but it's slightly better at least.

Nope, sorry.

I'm Getting a much later IASA frame from Pac-Man's Side B. Looking at it in a fixed camera position, it seems Pac-Man travels much farther after eating the pellet in his set direction. This is both with partial and full charged Side B. Increased range, Increased animation length/endlag.

Also Pac-Man's grab range is most definitely increa- *gets shot*

I had to.

 

[Shaya]

Eh, while his up smash was strong... it was like... easy to fall out of it, longish start up, and no real set ups into it. Heck, you can't do a running up smash out of a dash in a reactive fashion in a way that's reliable.
If you could cancel your spin dash jump with it though, then it would need to be terrible, but ... eh

 

[NipahAllDay]

Let's just hope that the next patch make the lower and mid tier characters a lot better and that would finally stop nerfing characters. I think we can agree with this.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Isn't Sonic's Up-Smash INVINCIBLE ON START-UP?

 

[Shaya]

Isn't Sonic's Up-Smash INVINCIBLE ON START-UP?

So is like everyone with a rounded head.
And it's only just before the hitbox starts, I'm not sure how long it lasts though.
It's a 19 frame up smash either way.

 

[-RedX-]

Any examples? On that "rack up damage reliably" part, I mean. I'm pretty sure all of them can be remedied with some "know the MU" and "git gud", though.

He has the ground speed to catch nearly any type of whiff, grabs->Uthrow for combo/juggle starter, Dthrow for tech chases, and Spindash nonsense that is practically safe on shield.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

So is like everyone with a rounded head.
And it's only just before the hitbox starts, I'm not sure how long it lasts though.

The Mario Brothers have invincibility only during their active frames and only on their head. I'm pretty sure Sonic's whole body is invincible after the Smash charge frame(s).

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Eh, while his up smash was strong... it was like... easy to fall out of it, longish start up, and no real set ups into it. Heck, you can't do a running up smash out of a dash in a reactive fashion in a way that's reliable.
If you could cancel your spin dash jump with it though, then it would need to be terrible, but ... eh

Yeah, anyone who says otherwise is pretty much a hater or someone who can't be bothered to study the MU.

Saying his USmash was broken (to ensure a bug fix)? That's gold.

Isn't Sonic's Up-Smash INVINCIBLE ON START-UP?

You say that like it makes the move incredible and amazing, despite is glaring faults.

• The invincibility frames aren't instantaneous. Should start around frame 19, but I'm not entirely sure;
• Doesn't even last that long. Most of the time the move will just clash with the opposing attack;
• Seriously, why was this even brought up?

He has the ground speed to catch nearly any type of whiff, grabs->Uthrow for combo/juggle starter, Dthrow for tech chases, and Spindash nonsense that is practically safe on shield.

How is the opponent whiffing a way to "reliably rack up damage"? Uthrow's knockback is just too strong to even set up for good juggles (Brawl's was way better, and that's what I'm thinking you're thinking of). Most you can get out of it is like one or two Uairs and although Spring to an aerial is also something to consider, it is far from being a guaranteed followup.

Dthrow: learn to tech it aka git gud.

The part of Spin moves being safe on shield just proved what I was suspecting: you don't really know the MU, do you?

 

[Shaya]

He has the ground speed to catch nearly any type of whiff, grabs->Uthrow for combo/juggle starter, Dthrow for tech chases, and Spindash nonsense that is practically safe on shield.

He can catch up, but his frame data is legitimately too terrible to readily punish good spacing/walling character's whiffs, if it's a move that cannot be grabbed (his dash grab doesn't really go anywhere horizontally). He has absolutely no anti-air tools other than shielding. Nothing he can do out of a dash is actually good bar grab.
Spin dash requires mix ups to be safe on shield if you know what you're doing.

 

[Zorai]

Nerfing KO power on a character who is incredibly hard to catch while being to able to rack up damage reliably seems fair to me.

QFT.

Sonic deserved the upsmash nerf. It catches landings incredibly easily for a character that can get underneath you easier than any other character. It also stuffs ledgejumps and catches people on platforms.

Also it barely even got nerfed.

 

[-RedX-]

I know the mixup, Sonic chooses to upB after Spindash makes contact on shield and you have to chase his landing and he could "autocancel" Dair at that height. I guess you could attempt to hit him behind him during this but I don't see many players doing it. But the mixup existing is partly why it's a pretty damn good approach.
Teching Sonic's Dthrow is still part of tech chasing. lol

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I know the mixup, Sonic chooses to upB after Spindash makes contact on shield and you have to chase his landing but then he could just "autocancel" Dair. I guess you could attempt to hit him behind him during this but I don't see many players doing it.

See, you guys know nothing about the MU and just spout random nonsense about how Sonic deserves more nerfs.

No, he can't autocancel from that height, making his landing even WORSE. Tell me how that's safe on shield.

 

[-RedX-]

See, you guys know nothing about the MU and just spout random nonsense about how Sonic deserve more nerfs.

No, he can't autocancel from that height, making his landing even WORSE. Tell me how that's safe on shield.

He can't autocancel Dair after Spring? I've seen it all too much.

 

[Spearwing13]

I don't know if anyone said this yet or noticed, but apparently Bowser Jr does roughly 2% less damage on his upAir. Can anyone test this for me I don't have anything pre patch and i didnt memorize his percent before.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

He can't autocancel Dair after Spring? I've seen it all too much.

Come on, at least try reading the entire sentence before replying.

Springing at a character's height won't be enough to ensure an autocancel. It just won't work.

 

[-RedX-]

Come on, at least try reading the entire sentence before replying.

Springing at a character's height won't be enough to ensure a autocancel. It just won't work.

But I was talking about using Spring after a Spindash jump, which I'm sure is high enough for Dair's autocancel.
Should've made that clearer on my part but I'm assuming everybody knows when Sonic does this.

 

[Shaya]

I know the mixup, Sonic chooses to upB after Spindash makes contact on shield and you have to chase his landing but then he could just "autocancel" Dair. I guess you could attempt to hit him behind him during this but I don't see many players doing it.

Teching Sonic's Dthrow is still part of tech chasing. lol

I wasn't even referring to that mix up. A read of sonic spin dash jumping is a simple jump air dodge OoS away from a free juggle trap (against ALL OF SONIC'S OPTIONS).
Immediate spring from the moment he leaves the ground won't give him an auto cancel down air, he has to ride the jump of spin dash to about half a body height above you or more to get that auto cancel.
Sonic keeps you honest by crossing through you and/or cancelling it with skid frames.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

But I was talking about using Spring after a Spindash jump, which I'm sure is high enough for Dair's autocancel.

Yeah, but once he commits to the jump, you can easily hit him with an aerial OoS. Still not safe.

 

[NipahAllDay]

He can't autocancel Dair after Spring? I've seen it all too much.

I think you mean sonic has no ending lag. Sonic has no Dair endlag from spring if he double jump.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Teching Sonic's Dthrow is still part of tech chasing. lol

See? This is what Sonic mains have to deal with everywhere.

Wrong. Sonic's Dthrow animation lasts longer than some character's teching animation. Just DI correctly and tech and you get a free punish. How awesome is that?

Spoiler

It's BS.

 

[-RedX-]

See? This is what Sonic mains have to deal with everywhere.

Wrong. Sonic's Dthrow animation lasts longer than some character's teching animation. Just DI correctly and tech and you get a free punish. How awesome is that?

Spoiler

It's BS.

Keyword here is some. How many characters (roughly) can get a free punish?

 

[FlynnCL]

Samus definitely had her grab buffed, it has a slight end-lag reduction.
I also compared aerial landing lag from 1.0.4 to 1.0.8 with Samus, Dr. Mario, Palutena, Greninja, Ganondorf, Wii Fit Trainer, Charizard, Kirby, Jigglypuff and Fox. There's no differences.

Outside of 1.0.7 buffs (such as Kirby's Hammer) and Greninja's sped up forward-tilt, there's also no IASA differences in all the ground moves I tested out too for the above listed.

Can you confirm this with Charazard? probably just placebo but i think his grabs also got a bit slower. it would make sense with his
up-throw buff.

All of Charizard's grabs are the same.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Keyword here is some. How many characters (roughly) can get a free punish?

How is that the keyword? A throw should never be a free ticket for the opponent to punish you. Pretty sure anyone with a fast tech-in-place can.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

Considering how Sonic has practically no viable KO setups and depends a lot on reads and whatnot, yes, it's a major nerf.

I mean, getting an USmash kill already required some reading because of how slow its startup is and how laggy it is.

The thing is that everyone will cheer whenever Sonic gets hit with the nerf stick, that's just how it is. BS.

Simply stating that the move is "too strong" isn't even good enough to be considered an argument.

fellow diddy kong player says.... hi

Although tbh that nerf is incredibly slight and the characters set ups flow or anything weren't touched, so....heck, even your down air and burning spin dash were buffed LOL