Lucas, Roy, Ryu (1.0.8) Community Patch Notes

[Zapp Branniglenn]

The final hit on N-air also is a Special Offensive Collision that always sends Falco's opponent forwards. This is extremely important because it means after D-throw N-air, you no longer need to guess which side your opponent will end up on in order to chase them afterwards. Furthermore it helps Falco do things like edgeguard people who hug the stage.

Unfortunately I don't have two systems to confirm this, but I was unable to hit people backwards with Falco's Jab even after setting someone like Marth to "Walk" and trying several times to clip him with the back end of Jab. So I also believe Falco's Jab was reformatted as a Special Offensive Collision.

I tried that test on my unpatched Wii U version. I got it to work when Falco faced Marth as he walked past him. Jab 1 could hit Marth in such a way that it turns him around (now having him face the direction Falco was facing). This indicates that Marth was hit from behind by the Jab, but it's an extremely delicate instance. If this doesn't happen at all on patched version of the game, then you may be right about the hitbox being specialized in such a way.

 

[Zeth444]

From Samus' tread:

Confirmed changes:
UP SMASH IS GOOD NOW. Has both improved hitboxes and better KO power
-Missile cancelling on ledges has been removed

 

[SphericalCrusher]

I'm sure Link had his down throw changed. Keep seeing people say it sends the opponent directly above you now.

I needed to spend more time before commenting, my apologies. Yes, they go straight up now instead of to the side. His dash attack seems to do 1% more dmg (compared to what I wrote down for Link in 1.0.7) but I could be wrong. Someone mentioned something about his upsmash drawing in opponents better but I can't tell a difference atm.

 

[sonnytapman]

From Samus' tread:

Confirmed changes:
UP SMASH IS GOOD NOW. Has both improved hitboxes and better KO power
-Missile cancelling on ledges has been removed

Yay! My pocket pick is looking up now. I wish Samus didn't have as much lag on her Ftilt, but you gotta start somewhere. It's not so much lag, it's just a pretty slow move overall.

 

[dettadeus]

Nope, that's impossible.

You'd need @Dantarion to post data dumps. Not sure how likely that is to happen though considering 1.0.6 didn't get posted.

Wouldn't a feasible testing method be to check the knockback it deals around 0%? If the knockback is basically the same then the growth was increased, if the new knockback is higher then the base was increased (and growth could've been as well). You could probably use the 1/4 speed with L hold in training mode to reset the percent to 0 just before the last hit to make sure it's really hitting at 0%.

 

[kennypu]

ness down b (psi magnet) ending animation is significantly reduced. this is confirmed

EDIT: nvm i see that's it's in now

 

[Shaya]

Could I get semi conclusive changes for Diddy Kong's up air?
Was the only change to Falcon his up air being 13%->11%?

The way to know if either growth or base has been altered even if damages are the same is finding out the kill percent of both.
If damages aren't the same, using equipment (meticulous/annoying) to par up the moves damage to previously known values with tests at various percent.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

In general

lower KO percent = increased KBG

higher KB, insignificant KO percent change = increased BKB

So say Villager's FTilt's damage output remained unchanged, but now it suddenly launched targets all the way across FD. That means a drastic BKB increase, since higher KBG values don't begin to manifest until higher percents (this is why at the beginning of the game's life, I was unaware of how powerful a KO option Villager's BThrow is; it has KBG nearly on par with Ness's, but it doesn't begin to make itself apparent until higher numbers due to its low damage + BKB)

 

[Kofu]

Concurring with the changes to Game & Watch's DTilt, Villager's Balloon Trip, and DThrow. The change to Balloon Trip also applies to Extreme Balloon Trip but doesn't seem to affect Balloon High Jump (which makes sense, the move functions totally differently).

Can anyone with both a patched and an unlatched game test if the end lag on Villager's DThrow was reduced? I'm not sure if followup potential was increased just because of a knoclback reduction or of he can act quicker out of the attack.

 

[Yackabean]

So far Toon Link's gotten a few nerfs overall. Here's what I have so far on him:

• Phoenix Bomb -The glitch allowed you to catch a bomb the frame it exploded, essentially duplicating / cloning a bomb with the same fuse the exploded bomb had.
• Boomerang / Bomb pull glide - Pretty much because of the ledge sliding movement removal. Toon Link can no longer gain crazy momentum by throwing boomerang / bomb pulling when running off a l(edge)
• Falling SAF (Spin Attack Fall) - Can no longer do a falling up B by running off of ledges / platforms.

Somewhere mentioned B-throw being nerfed in knocback. I don't see a difference, if any other Tinks are reading help find out more for us, thanks!

 

[Zeth444]

Is that up-toss slide still possible?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Concurring with the changes to Game & Watch's DTilt, Villager's Balloon Trip, and DThrow. The change to Balloon Trip also applies to Extreme Balloon Trip but doesn't seem to affect Balloon High Jump (which makes sense, the move functions totally differently).

Can anyone with both a patched and an unlatched game test if the end lag on Villager's DThrow was reduced? I'm not sure if followup potential was increased just because of a knoclback reduction or of he can act quicker out of the attack.

On it Kofu. I don't have an unpatched Wii U, but I can just compare against endlag from the first 3DS version since we have those available.

 

[dettadeus]

In general

lower KO percent = increased KBG

higher KB, insignificant KO percent change = increased BKB

Knockback is a function of BKB and KBG (with percent, obvs), so wouldn't an increase in either show an increase in knockback at higher percents? Lower KO percent could be either higher base or growth or some combination of the two, because they would reach the same knockback velocity as before with different numbers. Very loosely, you start with the base knockback, and add on the growth multiplied by the percent, right?

 

[Paper Maribro]

@ Shaya

So basically the fuel of up b got nerfed, not the distance it goes fresh. Not as major a nerf as I thought but still a nerf.

Sorry for the crappiness of the video.

 

[Quickhero]

Probably already talked about, but Marth's jab 1 and jab 2 are exactly the same in terms of frames, but the angle in which jab 1 leads is different.

Also I'm almost 100% sure n-air is still the same. It feels exactly the same if I were to short hop n-air as before, and I end up doing n-air twice in a row at the exact same moment as the previous patch.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Sonic's Dair can now be acted out of sooner. Pre update he would die from using Dair from a run off FD's ledge but now he is able to jump before dying.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

From Samus' tread:

Confirmed changes:
UP SMASH IS GOOD NOW. Has both improved hitboxes and better KO power
-Missile cancelling on ledges has been removed

Sorry to simply quote this for questions without data of my own, but does anyone know if these changes also carried over to Mii Gunner's version of u-smash and missiles?

 

[CHOMPY]

Confirmed:

• Damage reduced Fsmash: 16%->15%
• Damage reduced Dsmash (Front and Back): 13%->12.5%
• Damage reduced Dtilt: 8%->6%

Unconfirmed:

Pit's Dtilt has more ending lag?

 

[Lavani]

Endlag reduction on ftilt is approx. 10 frames

's jab had a substantial endlag reduction (~12f), ftilt3 launch angle is more horizontal (65°→~40°?)

's uair startup nerfed 3f→4f without a change in animation; the hitbox isn't active until Diddy's leg is up and in front of his head, and no longer hits below him.

 

[Myran]

Olimar's Pikmin lineup reverse has been removed. It happened whenever you grabbed the ledge a certain way, and it would make your lineup order reverse when you got off the ledge. Now whenever you grab the ledge the Pikmin always stay in the same order.

 

[LimitCrown]

Confirmed:

• Damage reduced Fsmash: 16%->15%
• Damage reduced Dsmash (Front and Back): 13%->12.5%
• Damage reduced Dtilt: 8%->6%

Unconfirmed:

Pit's Dtilt has more ending lag?

The damage values of all of those attacks listed appear to be the same as before. His down smash attack deals 12% at the base of the blade and 10% at the tip of the blade.

 

[Sneaky boy Nick]

Pacmans freaky fruit does more damage. Galaxian does less but melon, key, apple and others do 1% more

 

[LancerStaff]

Confirmed:

• Damage reduced Fsmash: 16%->15%
• Damage reduced Dsmash (Front and Back): 13%->12.5%
• Damage reduced Dtilt: 8%->6%

Unconfirmed:

Pit's Dtilt has more ending lag?

lolnope

Now Chompy needs to get kicked.

Edit:

 

[Lavani]

+ Luma HP buffed 47→50

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Knockback is a function of BKB and KBG (with percent, obvs), so wouldn't an increase in either show an increase in knockback at higher percents? Lower KO percent could be either higher base or growth or some combination of the two, because they would reach the same knockback velocity as before with different numbers. Very loosely, you start with the base knockback, and add on the growth multiplied by the percent, right?

Yes, but higher BKB normally doesn't impact KO percent nearly as much as KBG, except in the cases of smashes, and those typically have both high base damage and moderate KBG.

For example, Luma's sweetspotted UTilt starts launching incredibly far even at 0%, though it doesn't KO Robin until around 130%.

On the other hand, Ness's BThrow doesn't start applying significant amounts of KB on Robin until around 60%, but it can KO him around 95% at the edge and around 130% from the center of the stage.

What I said is just a general guideline for eyeballing changes in KB values for moves with "average" damage outputs (something like 8%-12%). If a move applies a lot of KB at 0%, then it's obvious it has high KBG. If the amount of KB applied increases rapidly, then this is because it has high KBG.

 

[FullMoon]

Wait, they nerfed Luma's HP and then backpedalled on it? lol.

 

[Lavani]

Wait, they nerfed Luma's HP and then backpalled on it? lol.

Partly. It used to be 52, dropped to 47 after 1.0.6, and now it's 50.

 

[Vipermoon]

@ Shaya
Marth: only jab 1 was reduced to 3/5%. Jab 2 still does 4/6% and also has a lot more base knockback.

 

[Zeth444]

Yes, but higher BKB normally doesn't impact KO percent nearly as much as KBG, except in the cases of smashes, and those typically have both high base damage and moderate KBG.

For example, Luma's sweetspotted UTilt starts launching incredibly far even at 0%, though it doesn't KO Robin until around 130%.

On the other hand, Ness's BThrow doesn't start applying significant amounts of KB on Robin until around 60%, but it can KO him around 95% at the edge and around 130% from the center of the stage.

What I said is just a general guideline for eyeballing changes in KB values for moves with "average" damage outputs (something like 8%-12%). If a move applies a lot of KB at 0%, then it's obvious it has high KBG. If the amount of KB applied increases rapidly, then this is because it has high KBG.

Is there anywhere I can see whats KBG KB BKB FAF IASA and all those things that apear at The frame data treads?

The only things I understand are Frames. Yet I Dont know how to get that information (is 1/4 Speed frame by frame?)

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Is there anywhere I can see whats KBG KB BKB FAF IASA and all those things that apear at The frame data treads?

http://pastebin.com/PzTjdtx8

opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore2/index.php

These aren't up to date though, they're stuck at v1.0.4.

Partly. It used to be 52, dropped to 47 after 1.0.6, and now it's 50.

Sakurai finally listened to me

Can confirm the HP change btw

@ Shaya
Marth: only jab 1 was reduced to 3/5%. Jab 2 still does 4/6% and also has a lot more base knockback.

Confirmed and added to the OP

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Zard's Uthrow is stronger than Mewtwo's Uthrow for a kill, this is on FD tested. This will push Battlefield to be his go to stage. This is honestly a ridiculous buff for him.

Zard's Dthrow combo's into Fair for 17% total. I've been trying other things like running Usmash, which works but the timing is strict.

I gotta sleep for an interview but I can confirm these changes are legit and the zard boards more or less confirmed them as well.

Well since it's a vertical kill move, I reckon that rage can make a sizable difference.

Case in point,

 

[Enrel]

So they've really improved Link over all. Grabs much longer now. Down throw combos into Uptilt/smash almost constantly. Forward and back through seem to be spacers now and up throw might kill? Not sure! But Dair Can' Kill not only in the air but on the ground too at 120%ish.
OH OH! The first swing in Fsmash can kill now! THANK GOD! It seems like Up Smash has a bit of a vortex to it? (I don't have any frame data) But like it seems now that if you it with one part of the Up Smash you hit with all.

 

[RoachCake]

From Samus' tread:

Confirmed changes:
UP SMASH IS GOOD NOW. Has both improved hitboxes and better KO power
-Missile cancelling on ledges has been removed

Better wording would be that her U-smash kills about 20% earlier. The improved hitboxes I wouldn't say are confirmed since there's no way to tell for sure.
The missile ledge cancel thing is part of a ledge interaction change that's universal.(You're also not pushed offstage anymore if you use a fully charged Charge Shot at the edge)

Nothing else is changed for Samus afaik.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

So they've really improved Link over all. Grabs much longer now. Down throw combos into Uptilt/smash almost constantly. Forward and back through seem to be spacers now and up throw might kill? Not sure! But Dair Can' Kill not only in the air but on the ground too at 120%ish.
OH OH! The first swing in Fsmash can kill now! THANK GOD! It seems like Up Smash has a bit of a vortex to it? (I don't have any frame data) But like it seems now that if you it with one part of the Up Smash you hit with all.

You either need to be more specific, provide numbers, or provide evidence. Just saying "the first swing kills! usmash has a vortex thing!" isn't going to cut it.

 

[Stigmata]

Lucario's jab definitely connects better now. First hit finally has fixed knockback. The first hit of jab used to kill with max aura and high damage while it now just sends people into the second hit. This is great for Luc being able to actually use his jab well!

 

[Zeth444]

http://pastebin.com/PzTjdtx8

opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore2/index.php

These aren't up to date though, they're stuck at v1.0.4.

What I mean is that I Dont know What those things stand for. What does IASA, KBG and all of that. The only thing that I undertand are Frames.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Lucario's jab definitely connects better now. First hit finally has fixed knockback. The first hit of jab used to kill with max aura and high damage while it now just sends people into the second hit. This is great for Luc being able to actually use his jab well!

People have been saying this on the Lucario boards but no offical confirmation atm, one is from Croi so I would trust him on this.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Lucario's jab definitely connects better now. First hit finally has fixed knockback. The first hit of jab used to kill with max aura and high damage while it now just sends people into the second hit. This is great for Luc being able to actually use his jab well!

Doesn't have fixed knockback (it applies less KB at 0% aura than it does at max aura), but it has definitely gotten a huge KBG nerf.

What I mean is that I Dont know What those things stand for. What does IASA, KBG and all of that. The only thing that I undertand are Frames.

IASA/FAF is the first frame after an attack that you can do another action. Basically when endlag is over. KBG is the rate at which the knockback a hitbox applies increases. BKB is base knockback which is pretty self explanatory. KB is knockback.

 

[Zeth444]

Doesn't have fixed knockback (it applies less KB at 0% aura than it does at max aura), but it has definitely gotten a huge KBG nerf.


IASA/FAF is the first frame after an attack that you can do another action. Basically when endlag is over. KBG is the rate at which the knockback a hitbox applies increases. BKB is base knockback which is pretty self explanatory. KB is knockback.

Thanks só much. Now its every thing clear for me. (Wish smash had a easy way to see frames like MK9 or Injustice. But of corse, thats why we have smashboards )

 

[LimitCrown]

I'll provide proof for the trajectory of Airborne Assault being changed. Here is a video by Ninjalink in which he showcased the Mii Swordfighter's custom moves.

At approximately 3.5 minutes in the video, he charged the attack completely. After comparing the trajectory of the Mii Swordfighter in the video and in the game with the 1.0.8 update, I concluded that it was changed; the Mii Swordfighter travels closer to the ground than before, which causes the character to land on the ground slightly earlier. This also means that the character is less likely to miss the opponent when trying to use the attack.

Although the video takes place before any major updates were released, there hasn't been any documented change in the trajectory of that attack yet, so this change in the attack is most likely due to the 1.0.8 update.