Lucas matchup discussion. (overhaul in progress)

[ZMan]

I did it to a Wolf user here in NM, I did that to him, he didn't use stage scarring for the rest of the set.

EDIT: Some other random things:

vs GAW, Sonic, Pit, and Snake you can grab them out of their UpB and not pummel or throw them they'll fall and die. It's commonly known against Snake, but you can do it to the other mentioned. It's hard against Pit and GAW though as they sweetspot the ledge with their up B.

vs Wario: If he uses the bike to recover use PK thunder to hit Wario and knock him off his bike.

 

[PKNintendo]

I need more info on the Lucas vs Wario matchup.

 

[Blackbelt]

I need more info on the Lucas vs Wario matchup.

The weekly matchup has begun the Wario discussion, because it was the most requested matchup.

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

I have a little bit of input on the DK matchup. This isn't tourney or anything; just a friend who uses DK and I play alot.

The best thing that I've used against DK is repeated SHNairs. Wavebouncing PKF is pretty good, too. You either want him to approach you or get in real close without getting smacked by one of his tilts (his dsmash is REAL quick, too). The former is rather easy since he has no camping game.

Lucas' kill moves are a bit tough to land on DK, imo. I usually end up sending him off the level with a SHFair. If he's low enough get above him and attempt to spike w/ bair. If he looks like he might not go high enough to recover, use dair instead. If you are too chicken to chase him, try this: send him off, and then use PK Freeze.

...yes, I did just suggest PK Freeze.

His only recovery option is the Up B. It takes a long time to finish and he has little to no vertical control while doing it. If your timing is decent you can send him straight up in a chunk of ice.

...or you can just replace the word "freeze" with "thunder" and be more mainstream =P

 

[BirdBoy]

ok umm im kinda new here so here it is, my borher is always beating me and i really need to know some combos against his characters his main characters are ike lucario and wolf, any sugestions?

 

[HiddenBowser]

Don't be silly. Combos don't exist in brawl.

Also, Levitas is sweet because he's cool with me decking out our room in skate clips

 

[Natch]

ok umm im kinda new here so here it is, my borher is always beating me and i really need to know some combos against his characters his main characters are ike lucario and wolf, any sugestions?

SH Nair/Fair into Jab combo.

If the last hit of an SH Nair misses, use it again.

PK Fire->PK Freeze(not a combo, but it's good for a pressure game)

Use Jab combo whenever he is point blank, always. It is a good move.

 

[Ravenlord]

Questions on Lucas-Diddy:

- How should I use the bananas on Diddy?
- What stages should I counterpick? Corneria?
- What attacks can kill him easily?

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

@ Birdboy: For Ike? Use Wavebounced PK Fires. All. The. Time.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=153793

this is the thread on Lucas advanced techniques and GofG explains wavebouncing in the first post. There is also a link to a video there.

@ Ravenlord: I would pick Corneria just to absorb the lasers from Great Fox and the arwings! XD

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

@ Birdboy: For Ike? Use Wavebounced PK Fires. All. The. Time.

I disagree on this part. If the Ike is smart and knows how to play at all he can easily get around wave bounced pk fires. One of my friends mains ike and plays him extremely well, and I can tell you that spamming pk fire wont get you anywhere. even wavebounced

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

I disagree on this part. If the Ike is smart and knows how to play at all he can easily get around wave bounced pk fires. One of my friends mains ike and plays him extremely well, and I can tell you that spamming pk fire wont get you anywhere. even wavebounced

Fair enough. It's been awhile since I played an Ike and it worked that time. I should have specified that I had limited Ike fighting experience

I wanted to provide some info on the Wolf matchup, since my roommate mains him.

One of the most important things that I've noticed in close quarters is that if he tries to do an Fsmash in close and you shield or spotdodge, he will end up behind you. This is almost unique to Wolf from what I can see. I usually punish this w/ a Ftilt delivered behind me. It's something to watch out for because it can throw people off (and still catches me off guard even though I fight Wolf a lot).

Another thing I've noticed is that whenever a Wolf sends you out too far to follow up w/ an immediate aerial move (around mid distance) they will sometimes try to laser you. I thought it was just my roommate but I was fighting a Wolf at a tourney a few days ago and he AAA'ed me from the edge (I was at pretty high damage). My "roommate senses" kicked in and I automatically threw up my Psi Magnet. Got healed. This happened in both games of our set about 3 times.

DON'T do this too much or you will get punished for putting it up. It's real easy to get magnet happy. It usually won't if you are smart about spacing. After fighting a Wolf that does this you get a feel for the distance where they will follow up w/ a laser.

To edgeguard him: PK Thunder. This is probably obvious but wasn't explicitly mentioned for the Wolf Matchup. His side B is too quick to attempt bair spikes unless you chase him REAL quick or he is too close to justify using side B. I just throw a thunder out there and twirl it about between him and the edge. If it doesn't knock him toward the level, you can rinse and repeat and maybe kill in this way.

My favorite approach in this matchup is SHnair > Utilt, just because Wolf is heavy enough to make it awesome. In order to kill I go for the stick, or if I'm at high damage and want to stay safe I use Fair to send him away and then try to screw him up w/ PKT.

Don't be afraid of his reflector. I apologize to whoever stated this for the Fox matchup, but wavebouncing well-spaced PK fires means that you don't have to worry about eating your own fire.

I hope this information is useful to you guys.

 

[Iron Mushroom]

Fair enough. It's been awhile since I played an Ike and it worked that time. I should have specified that I had limited Ike fighting experience

I wanted to provide some info on the Wolf matchup, since my roommate mains him.

One of the most important things that I've noticed in close quarters is that if he tries to do an Fsmash in close and you shield or spotdodge, he will end up behind you. This is almost unique to Wolf from what I can see. I usually punish this w/ a Ftilt delivered behind me. It's something to watch out for because it can throw people off (and still catches me off guard even though I fight Wolf a lot).

Another thing I've noticed is that whenever a Wolf sends you out too far to follow up w/ an immediate aerial move (around mid distance) they will sometimes try to laser you. I thought it was just my roommate but I was fighting a Wolf at a tourney a few days ago and he AAA'ed me from the edge (I was at pretty high damage). My "roommate senses" kicked in and I automatically threw up my Psi Magnet. Got healed. This happened in both games of our set about 3 times.

DON'T do this too much or you will get punished for putting it up. It's real easy to get magnet happy. It usually won't if you are smart about spacing. After fighting a Wolf that does this you get a feel for the distance where they will follow up w/ a laser.

To edgeguard him: PK Thunder. This is probably obvious but wasn't explicitly mentioned for the Wolf Matchup. His side B is too quick to attempt bair spikes unless you chase him REAL quick or he is too close to justify using side B. I just throw a thunder out there and twirl it about between him and the edge. If it doesn't knock him toward the level, you can rinse and repeat and maybe kill in this way.

My favorite approach in this matchup is SHnair > Utilt, just because Wolf is heavy enough to make it awesome. In order to kill I go for the stick, or if I'm at high damage and want to stay safe I use Fair to send him away and then try to screw him up w/ PKT.

Don't be afraid of his reflector. I apologize to whoever stated this for the Fox matchup, but wavebouncing well-spaced PK fires means that you don't have to worry about eating your own fire.

I hope this information is useful to you guys.

0.0 Wow.....Lots of typing

 

[lil cj]

Im having trouble with Lucario and Kirby
Lucario always seems to get me with his disjointed smashes
I can beat him its jus difficult.
I have even more trouble with Kirby, his aerials out prioritizes Lucas'
and that forward throw to aerial(s) combo is deadly...it racks up alot of damage.
Any advice on how to beat these two?

 

[Levitas]

I'd help with lucario, but I don't really know much about him.

Kirby is pretty bad at approaching, so if you get him to have to approach you, you're golden. his fsmash is really deadly, so watch out for it.

 

[Trozz]

Kirby's approaching usually consists of multiple RAR'd b-airs. It comes out fast and hurts. Unfortunately for Kirby, he can't keep a really good horizontal momentum while approaching with this, so can react.

Lucario is scary in the air. He can string a lot of attacks together if your damage is low. I can't think of any matchup specific tips for this. Try the running spot dodge f-smash approach/kill. :3

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

I have a bit for the Yoshi matchup. I apologize in advance if it's out of place but it doesn't look as if there's a set character to talk about (like in the weekly thread).

This is some advice Bwett gave me before fighting Furbs in pools at HOBO11.

The three most important things he told me:

1) Wavebounce'd PK fires are hard for Yoshi to get through.

2) Spend lots of time in the air to avoid being grabbed. Yoshi's got
that release chain grab which makes Lucas a sad panda.

3) Watch those eggs! They do 9 damage a piece and they are not hard to dodge if you are paying attention.

He also recommended bair spiking after the startup (ultra armor?)of Yoshi's second jump if he recovers low.

Watch out for the running Usmash (hyphen smashing)

PKF > side b egg-roll.

Hope this info is useful!

 

[lil cj]

Kirby's approaching usually consists of multiple RAR'd b-airs. It comes out fast and hurts. Unfortunately for Kirby, he can't keep a really good horizontal momentum while approaching with this, so can react.

Lucario is scary in the air. He can string a lot of attacks together if your damage is low. I can't think of any matchup specific tips for this. Try the running spot dodge f-smash approach/kill. :3

Thanks Trozz
I didnt know about that approach
Hey would u like to participate in Operation L.U.C.A.S.?
U 2 Natch and Phoenix?
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197491

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

Thanks Trozz
I didnt know about that approach
Hey would u like to participate in Operation L.U.C.A.S.?
U 2 Natch and Phoenix?
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197491

Sorry, man. I'm not really up for wifi. The name is really clever, though.

I really think the best way to get character matchup info is to simply play against them in real life and pretend wifi doesn't exist.

I'm glad there are people who have so much zeal for Lucas, though.
Just don't do anything that's going to get us a bad rep =\

 

[lil cj]

Sorry, man. I'm not really up for wifi. The name is really clever, though.

I really think the best way to get character matchup info is to simply play against them in real life and pretend wifi doesn't exist.

I'm glad there are people who have so much zeal for Lucas, though.
Just don't do anything that's going to get us a bad rep =\

Thanks
lol...i wont
This is jus a fun way to battle all the other characters, but at the same time developing a Metagame for Lucas and learning match ups....lol

 

[Extremenerd]

Any IC info?

 

[HiddenBowser]

IC's would wreck lucas.

 

[Extremenerd]

why is that?

 

[prOAPC]

we already talked about IC in Blackblet's matchup thread

 

[Extremenerd]

On blackbelt's thread Zman commented saying if you PKT nana it will gimp the IC, but nana cant be hit as everyone pointed out, but in a few matches i hit popo or the tether and nana just dropped them both in those matches. Havent had time to actually test it but i thought id throw it out there.

 

[Levitas]

nana can be hit before she grabs the edge. Perhaps blackbelt is looping the pkt back so that she runs into the tail (which would outprioritize it). I'll test this the next time I play.

Edit: tested, and this is not true. Nana beats the tail of pk thunder, proving to me that she's invincible on the way to the edge.

 

[Steel]

Marth boards discussing Lucas.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198304

 

[Iron Mushroom]

What about Lucas vs. DK? And by DK, I mean Donkey Kong. Lucas would probably tear DK apart, right?

 

[Levitas]

No, the other thing. It has its own thread on the first page.

 

[Deleted member]

It'd be even, probably 55-45 in DK's favour. Donkey Kong has better KO moves, speed, priority [specials aside for now] and generally can swamp Lucas, but the Mother's boy can keep DK at bay with specials and has way, way better recovery, that is if he can survive the sheer beating a good DK can hand out to such a weakling.

Something tells me I posted this in the wrong place and at the wrong time.

 

[Levitas]

Is that something the fact that we just finished talking about this in this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183767

 

[Iron Mushroom]

It'd be even, probably 55-45 in DK's favour. Donkey Kong has better KO moves, speed, priority [specials aside for now] and generally can swamp Lucas, but the Mother's boy can keep DK at bay with specials and has way, way better recovery, that is if he can survive the sheer beating a good DK can hand out to such a weakling.

Something tells me I posted this in the wrong place and at the wrong time.

Hmmmmmm DK is also kinda sucky though, so only a good brawler can be that good with DK, but A good DK player is a KO machine (Have had this painful experience) unless, the Lucas player is also good.

 

[HiddenBowser]

You're a ****ing idiot. DK is not a bad character in this game. You can look at the tier list to see how the backroom feels about DK. He's ranked in the middle of high tier.

 

[Blackbelt]

Dude, DK is awesome.


And he wrecks Lucas. I can say in all honesty that I'd rather face Marth than DK.

 

[Iron Mushroom]

You're a ****ing idiot. DK is not a bad character in this game. You can look at the tier list to see how the backroom feels about DK. He's ranked in the middle of high tier.

Yeah, whatever dude

 

[Blackbelt]

Yeah, whatever dude

uh, dude? He's right.


Avsolutely right.

 

[NintenJoe]

DK is higher tier than lucas, so if a lucas faces a good DK, then lucas will probably lose.

 

[Blackbelt]

DK is higher tier than lucas, so if a lucas faces a good DK, then lucas will probably lose.

Tier position does not matter when it comes to matchups.

 

[Iron Mushroom]

uh, dude? He's right.


Avsolutely right.

I know he's right. I'm saying whatever to being a idiot. I am clearly typing, so I am not a idiot

 

[HiddenBowser]

DK is higher tier than lucas, so if a lucas faces a good DK, then lucas will probably lose.

um... yeah... what blackbelt said... tier list doesn't matter when it comes to matchups.

I know he's right. I'm saying whatever to being a idiot. I am clearly typing, so I am not a idiot

idk kid, I've seen some pretty ****ing stupid people type.

 

[Levitas]

idk kid, I've seen some pretty ****ing stupid people type.

You'd better not be talking about me.