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Lucas Match Ups - UNDER CONSTRUCTION

Mikezor

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
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433
Location
Centennial, Colorado
Match Ups

Sonic

Sonic is a very interesting character to play against. With unmatched speed on the ground, he will always be right in Lucas's face at the most annoying times. But fortunately, Sonic has a limited number of ways he can approach the enemy. Almost all of the approaches include running up and either side stepping, shield grabbing, dash attacking, running behind Lucas, spin dashing, or using a short hopped aerial. Since Lucas has a lot of low lag moves with mega range and priority, he can form a wall so to speak, negating Sonic's approaches. PK fire works especially well when Sonic is just inside the range. Make sure not to use it if he is any closer though, it will result in a grab for him.

Punishing a Sonic too much for approaching will force him to play campy, and this is where the fight starts getting annoying. Basically you have to bait Sonic into your attacks without leaving enough lag for him to hit you back. Forward tilts and jabs keep Sonic at bay efficiently, as well as short hopped aerials. When all else is done and done, landing a KO on Sonic can be very frustrating. For one, Sonic has a very good recovery that is hard to edgeguard, forcing Lucas to kill from the stage. This may become a problem because sometimes Lucas will be relying on moves as weak as forward tilt to kill, as Sonic is harder to punish with Lucas's laggier smashes. Secondly, Sonic's mobility and low lag make him hard to punish. What works best to counter this is to look for side steps and apply a timed smash attack/down smash appropriately.

Ness

While this match up isn't necessarily harder or easier than the rest, it is my favorite match up as Lucas (probably only for the fact that these are two psychic children fighting each other). Fighting Ness in this game is a battle of spacing, timing, and edgeguarding. While not much of a threat on the ground, Ness's aerial game is frustratingly good. His neutral air and forward air have insane priority and will beat all of Lucas's air attacks, his back air and up air have great KOing power, and his down air can pop anyone up into another aerial. Ness also has a dynamite dash attack. This move combos into almost any of Ness's aerials and has incredible range. Ness even has his own PK Fire and Psi Magnet which will damper your ability to pester him with projectiles.

But there are some things Lucas can do to fight back.

First up is Lucas's ground game. Lucas's forward tilt is great for keeping Ness away from Lucas, and his up tilt, as always, is great for combos and keeping enemies in the air at bay. Lucas also has his up and forward smashes which can catch Ness off guard after an aerial attack. A running up smash when Ness uses a short hopped/full jumped aerial, a retreating forward smash when Ness is already in the air and is chasing after Lucas.

Next is timing and predicting Ness. Because Ness's dash attack is so great, he will be using it often. If Lucas sees one coming, there are a couple of options Lucas has at his immediate disposal: aerials and PK Fire. Lucas can short hop over Ness's dash attack and plant any of his aerials right in Ness's face, ideally a forward or neutral air, but if you want to keep your distance, PK Fire will stop the dash attack while staying as far away as you would like.

However, out of all the techniques Lucas can use against Ness, edgeguarding is the shining jewel of this match up. After accomplishing the difficult task of getting Ness off the stage, the harassment can begin. Initially Ness will be in the top left/right hand of the screen with good DI, so Lucas can proceed to forward air, back air, up air, neutral air, PK Thunder, or PK Fire Ness (while PK Freeze is an option, there are much better moves possible in my opinion). Do anything humanly possible to take away Ness's second jump; if it is lost, there will be almost no excuse for Lucas if he does not finish the job because Ness can only recover with a PK Thunder. One technique will be to jump out and absorb Ness's PK Thunder with Psi Magnet, leaving Ness to fall to his doom. Another is edgehogging, which forces Ness to recover above the stage, putting him right into up smash heaven. Jumping out and keeping the pressure on with Lucas's meteor smashes works very well because either Ness will have to dodge them in some form or have a very low chance of recovering. I could go on and on about how many ways there are to edgeguard Ness, but I'm sure you'll find a way to kill him after this point.

Ike

This match up is actually easier than most, and in my opinion, Ike shouldn't give Lucas players much trouble at all. The fact is that PK Fire completely destroys Ike's methods of approaching. A short hopped PK Fire will still hit Ike when he is running, Side B-ing, and even short hopping. NOT DONE.

.kRO's Ike Impression
Ike- You can pretty much expect Ike to be a beast from his range and his killing power. However, it isn't as bad as if you were using Meta knight against him (Ike owns meta). Things that really work against Ike is a short-hopped PKfire. One, if he tries to do any sort of short-hopped aerial, the pkfire would hit Ike and push him away. Two, PKfire ***** Ike's forwardB recovery. Three, PKfire is great for baiting him and punish. Of course, one move doesn't make up for the fact that Ike out ranges you in every other move. His aerials completely shuts down your dair, since all of his move cover above Ike, making it incredibly hard to set up the right height level to dair. And you'll often trade hits with fair with his aerials (and trading hits with Ike is like trading hits with Ganon in melee). You're ground moves are solid against Ike though, especially the ftilt. The other two tilts lack range and will often whiff, allowing Ike a free ftilt or the like. Your smashes are generally better (just watch out for Ike's sweeping UpSmash).

-Be sure you punish obvious rolls with a dashcancel upsmash.
-Spam PKfire
-ftilt after an aerial 75% of the time.
-Don't get hit (easier said than done, but its so key)
-If the Ike wants to approach you with an ForwardB, use a short hopped PKfire or just jump over him. It's practically impossible to time a roll or a ground dodge because Ike's ForwardB is amazing as a spacing mindgame. So just make him stop using it with a short-hop PKfire.
-Harass his ForwardB recovery with a PKfire and a PKthunder
-Try your best not to get annoyed by Ike's neutral jab combo (its so easy to land and it does friggin 15%) its pretty much the only ground move Ike has going against Lucas

Captain Falcon

Pending.

.kRO's Captain Falcon Impression
You shouldn't have trouble with him. At all. Imagine melee falcon without the ability to upair combo and you dominating the ground game (ftilt *****, uptilt for combos, dtilt can force trips sometimes). And ofcourse, use short-hopped PKfires and bait with fairs. Just watch out for grab spamming Falcons and punish with fairs, ftilt and the like. The only thing scary is being upaired while your trying to recover but you should see it coming.

(Be sure you use ftilt right after you land with fair/nair since ftilt comes out incredibly fast and has insane range for a tilt. Almost gurantees a safe landing.)

King DeDeDe

Pending.

.kRO's King DeDeDe Impression
His ForwardB (him chucking the WaddleDees) is as spammable as the PKfire so space well. He is obviously, much bigger than Lucas so your nair absolutely dominates D3 by the fact that his shields won't cover him fully when you nair. So spam your aerials. He also has an absolutely horrendous recovery, so the bair meteor, or the downB hit is incredibly easy to land for an easy kill. However, watch out for his chainthrow; I think he can get two-three at low/mid percentage. But even then, a good D3 will mix up the dthrow chainthrow with an occasional upsmash/dashattack expecting you to spotdodge/roll and kill you. Another thing, your smashes near the ledge is a safe move to do since even a shielding opponent will get pushed back far enough for a forced edge grab. Allowing you an easier situation for a kill (if you anticipate that he'll jump the ledge->upsmash, otherwise, roll and forwardsmash/ftilt/dsmash). uptilt is also incredibly easy to land on D3.

Metaknight

Pending.

.kRO's Metaknight Impression
Thank god Meta doesn't have a projectile. Spam PkFire like no tomorrow (short-hopped). And majority of the time, you should aim to kill him vertically since its much, much easier that way. You practically can't edgeguard a good meta when he's recovering horizontally. His fair is overall better than yours, and all of his aerials come out as fast/faster than your nair. Anticipate rolls (if there was something as easy as wavedashing, meta will be unstoppable imo) and punish with ftilt/upsmash. Never underestimate the range of the upsmash, since it hits like three Lucas models piled up (sorry for the lame description) and also hits a decent amount at the side.

-Meta can close distance really fast with a nicely timed DownB if you get predictable with the PKfire
-Meta can **** your recovery with a dair off the ledge
-If you try to stall at the ledge (which isn't a really good idea in the first place with Lucas), he'll **** you via running nair off the ledge
-Watch out for his upair combos, out of his fthrow. Your dair is solid though.
-Do not PkThunder as recovery if you don't have to. The more time you spend off the level, the more chances Meta has to kill you
 

.kR0

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Thx, but we already have Lucas's movesets in the Lucas FAQ.
Glad you liked playing Lucas though.

Two things I do not agree with
-Down smash is a solid smash since it lasts a while, has surprisingly long range (more than FSmash), can kill and actually hits slightly behind Lucas as well.
-DownB is a solid attack move out of dashes and in the air.

The others I generally agree with.
 

BentoBox

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How close to your opponent do you have to be to hit with Lucas's down-b? How does it compare to the shine?
 

Mikezor

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That's fine with me.

How close to your opponent do you have to be to hit with Lucas's down-b? How does it compare to the shine?
Basically, the opponent that you are hitting with Psi Magnet has to be inside the spherical aera. Also, down b is kind of like the shine because it has a very horizontal knockback, although it isn't a spike/semi spike. This move does more damage as the percent increases unlike the reflector which is a plus.
 

Malk

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Just some immediate thoughts:
You can cancel the jabs (of most characters at least) by pressing shield during the last few frames of the second one. This would let you jab jab(shield cancel) grab/ftilt/Utilt!!/smash/etc.

I spam PK Fire even more than your miniguide would have readers believe. SO SPAMMABLE does not begin to cover it. PK Fire spam should be like melee laser spam. Ubiquitous. I haven't found a matchup where it doesn't help immensely. Maybe against Ness or Lucas.... Even characters with reflectors - if you short hop the PK Fire and then land the returned fire will go over your head and you usually have enough time to punish the ridiculously slow reflecting moves in this game.

Also it's possible to PK Fire off platforms. I dunno if this is common knowledge but if you press PK Fire as you're dashing off the platform the bolt will come out riding the ground and you land with almost no lag. Very good. Feels like missile cancelling in melee.

Edit: Also the Down B should NOT be used as an attack. It has good range but absolutely no priority. The move hits as it's being taken down, and nothing about putting the bubble up or down will stop an attack coming through. Literally ZERO priority. If you can space it right, more power to you, but against an even mediocre opponent.. At times people will land with lag at that distance in front of you, but when that happens you can punish with much better moves than Down B. You just hit with a smash and kill. There's just no good situation to use down B in, other than healing a HUGE HUGE amount. (like double the projectile's normal damage, seriously). MAYBE as an edgeguard. Haven't tested much, theory being it would be his furthest ranged aerial move. Still think Fair would be better and just use spacing.
 

InterimOfZeal

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No, it's really not. It ~can~ do more damage, if they don't just smash DI out, but it's not nearly as scary, at least against people that have to approach from the ground (ala Sonic). Seriously, against Ness, I'll let the fire hit me, then SDI out and keep going. Lucas? Nope, not happening.
 

InterimOfZeal

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Ness has much better options when he's in the air, and the PK fire is slow enough to dodge. Also, it's only good for combo'ing if the opponent can't DI, seriously. It has zero-knockback, and isn't good for spamming. Lucas' is good for the reasons you mentioned. It goes straight, which means complete horizontal harassment, and has some really good knockback, making it much harder to approach him when he spams.
 

Hardcorenesser

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Ness has much better options when he's in the air, and the PK fire is slow enough to dodge. Also, it's only good for combo'ing if the opponent can't DI, seriously. It has zero-knockback, and isn't good for spamming. Lucas' is good for the reasons you mentioned. It goes straight, which means complete horizontal harassment, and has some really good knockback, making it much harder to approach him when he spams.

Ness doesn't need to spam. Besides, the fat that lucas's PK fire goes horizantally every time means it is more predictable. I know i probably don't stand a chance arguing for ness in the lucas forums, but I know ness is superior. It won't be long til you are begging for ness's mercy...
 

PrettyGoodYear

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Ness doesn't need to spam. Besides, the fat that lucas's PK fire goes horizantally every time means it is more predictable. I know i probably don't stand a chance arguing for ness in the lucas forums, but I know ness is superior. It won't be long til you are begging for ness's mercy...
More predictable? I'm sorry, but I still know Ness's PK Fire is going to go diagonally in the air. Both PK Fires are as predictable as Fox's blaster. Ness can't short hop his PK Fire though, and that's were Lucas has the advantage, IMO.

One of the things I wished they would change for Ness in Melee was to make his PK Fire go straight in the air so I could SH it.
 

Cake.

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This question seems suspect.
So how has everyone else faired against ZSS? I have not had much time to play with this matchup, but when I did, it seemed like Samus had the upper-hand. Is this due to my n00b nature, or have other lucas players had this issues?
 

.kR0

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So how has everyone else faired against ZSS? I have not had much time to play with this matchup, but when I did, it seemed like Samus had the upper-hand. Is this due to my n00b nature, or have other lucas players had this issues?
I use em both and its not too hard of a match-up since
1. Zsamus has incredibly ****ty priority with most of her whip moves
2. She has a really ****ty dair and can't do anything when she's above Lucas
3. Her projectile isn't campable

But she has her Forward B which is without a doubt, one of the most broken moves in Brawl.

Just watch out for her upairs/upsmash and you'll be fine. Uptilt/Upsmash/Dsmash/ftilt ***** her.
 

SimaMatt

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How do you guys feel about the following matchups: (adult) Link, Dedede, and Diddy? I don't really need great detail, I'd just like to know if they're in favor for Lucas or not.

Thanks :3
 

Hardcorenesser

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More predictable? I'm sorry, but I still know Ness's PK Fire is going to go diagonally in the air. Both PK Fires are as predictable as Fox's blaster. Ness can't short hop his PK Fire though, and that's were Lucas has the advantage, IMO.

One of the things I wished they would change for Ness in Melee was to make his PK Fire go straight in the air so I could SH it.
Ok so i was wrong... lucas's pk fire is better... and still, you may know that Ness's pk fire goes diagonally down, but the fact that there are other things that are better options in the air makes it less predictable. I now know that lucas's pk fire is better then ness's. Now there's two things lucas is better at... pk fire and psi magnet. i doubt lucas has anything else that stands against ness's awesomeness and sexiness, so i stand by my opinion that Ness is indeed superior.
 

leafgreen386

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Ok so i was wrong... lucas's pk fire is better... and still, you may know that Ness's pk fire goes diagonally down, but the fact that there are other things that are better options in the air makes it less predictable. I now know that lucas's pk fire is better then ness's. Now there's two things lucas is better at... pk fire and psi magnet. i doubt lucas has anything else that stands against ness's awesomeness and sexiness, so i stand by my opinion that Ness is indeed superior.
Stop posting. :)

You're in the lucas forum saying ness is better than lucas, even though the two characters are very different and shouldn't be compared like that in the first place. If you're arguing about tiers, fine, but saying "x" is better than "y" with no apparent reasoning just comes off as trolling.






To you, good sir.
 

(NYC)Fab

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Ok so i was wrong... lucas's pk fire is better... and still, you may know that Ness's pk fire goes diagonally down, but the fact that there are other things that are better options in the air makes it less predictable. I now know that lucas's pk fire is better then ness's. Now there's two things lucas is better at... pk fire and psi magnet. i doubt lucas has anything else that stands against ness's awesomeness and sexiness, so i stand by my opinion that ness is indeed superior.
Well lucas besides his pk fire and psi magnet his f smash is better than ness as well its faster, pretty much gives just has much knock back on hit as ness and it recovers faster, it just doesn't do as much damage but it doesn't matter. Also to add to that lucas has 2 recovery options and you can mix up your recovery better than ness can. Ness and lucas are so player dependent, like pretty much which ever one fits ya style of play is the one you should use I don't think there really shouldn't be any debate as of which one is better than the other cause I think there both just as good as the other but it depends on ya style and which one fits you. I just hope the useless post you make bout who is better stops cause its kinda dumb.
 

Hardcorenesser

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OK, so i put up pathetic arguements... nor am i a good debater unless i can bribe people. I love both Lucas and Ness. I always have, don't get me wrong. I was only saying that Ness is better in my opinion. I even said "so i stand by my opinion". I'm just losing my respect for Lucas... all my friends say he's gay and they say it so much I'm starting to believe them. THEY ARE INSIDE MY HEAD!!!!! Now they're calling Ness a fat chinese boy and i want to shoot them in their ******* face. Does anyone have a gun i could borrow? Preferably a shotgun? I don't know... i also kinda argue for Lucas in the Ness forums... sometimes. I guess it's my way of making people think higher of them. Most of the time I come off as a *****. I'll try to remain as mellow as possible, and I will try to accept the fact that not everyone like both Ness and Lucas. I hereby apologize for all the things I've said about Lucas being inferior... it was purely my opinion. I have this habit of forcing my will upon others... hehehe... :lol:
 

Hardcorenesser

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But ya, back on topic. I noticed that some character stratagies and counters were in the Pikmin and Olimar forums. I don't think they have anything on Lucas/Ness yet though. Perhaps we should quickly come up with a counter for Pikmin and Olimar, just in case.
 

fritzscoot

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These match ups are very helpful! Cant wait for the Marth or Pit matchup cuz it seems everyone wants to use them cuz of their potential of a high tier.

The metaknight desc. was very helpful and at the same time frightening. Thanks again and keep it up.
 

BentoBox

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Match Ups

Sonic

Sonic is a very interesting character to play against. With unmatched speed on the ground, he will always be right in Lucas's face at the most annoying times. But fortunately, Sonic has a limited number of ways he can approach the enemy. Almost all of the approaches include running up and either side stepping, shield grabbing, dash attacking, running behind Lucas, spin dashing, or using a short hopped aerial. Since Lucas has a lot of low lag moves with mega range and priority, he can form a wall so to speak, negating Sonic's approaches. PK fire works especially well when Sonic is just inside the range. Make sure not to use it if he is any closer though, it will result in a grab for him.

Punishing a Sonic too much for approaching will force him to play campy, and this is where the fight starts getting annoying. Basically you have to bait Sonic into your attacks without leaving enough lag for him to hit you back. Forward tilts and jabs keep Sonic at bay efficiently, as well as short hopped aerials. When all else is done and done, landing a KO on Sonic can be very frustrating. For one, Sonic has a very good recovery that is hard to edgeguard, forcing Lucas to kill from the stage. This may become a problem because sometimes Lucas will be relying on moves as weak as forward tilt to kill, as Sonic is harder to punish with Lucas's laggier smashes. Secondly, Sonic's mobility and low lag make him hard to punish. What works best to counter this is to look for side steps and apply a timed smash attack/down smash appropriately.
No, it's really not. It ~can~ do more damage, if they don't just smash DI out, but it's not nearly as scary, at least against people that have to approach from the ground (ala Sonic). Seriously, against Ness, I'll let the fire hit me, then SDI out and keep going. Lucas? Nope, not happening.
Just watched your 10th recorded duel and I'd have to add that using PK fire as a bait might not be that great of an idea. Actually, the lucas player should focus on performing aerials as soon as humanly possible when short hopping to avoid any lag when landing. Sonic's best asset is his speed and I realised how easy it is for Lucas to get punished for shooting a PK fire that the Sonic had dodged, or whiffing an aerial. I also believe that for those reasons, the more predictable you are in your approach, the easier it will be for the Sonic player to deal with you. :O

Actually... that applies to pretty much every duel doesn't it :<

Oh, and how does D3 have a bad recovery...? Multiple jumps+UPb is more than average... (refering to kRO's analysis)
 

Mikezor

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DeDeDe is very easily edgeguarded in my opinion.

Also, I don't think I mentioned PK Fire as a bait. Only forward tilt jab and aerials.
 

.kR0

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Pit= DownB his arrows like a motha****a.
Marth = Spam PK fire. Upsmash kills him cause his dair sucks now.
 

BentoBox

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DeDeDe is very easily edgeguarded in my opinion.

Also, I don't think I mentioned PK Fire as a bait. Only forward tilt jab and aerials.
I know , but you still did spam pk fire and I think others might be inclined to.
 

Kone

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Do you want impressions vs luigi? as i could write something up about that matchup saying as its all i play :)
 
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