Social Lucario Social: Aura Dog Days of Summer

[BugCatcherWill]

I won my first tourney!! It was only a 15 man bracket but it still had the #2 and #3 PR of Columbus there! Didn't drop a set going all Lucario =w=

Also had to fight through Cloud, Bayonetta, Mario, Shulk(Carls' Shulk is the truth, tho :v ) and ZSS(twice) to win Grands in a close 3-2 set.

The sets are being uploaded right now so I'll post them later =w=

 

[meticulousboy]

I won my first tourney!! It was only a 15 man bracket but it still had the #2 and #3 PR of Columbus there! Didn't drop a set going all Lucario =w=

Also had to fight through Cloud, Bayonetta, Mario, Shulk(Carls' Shulk is the truth, tho :v ) and ZSS(twice) to win Grands in a close 3-2 set.

The sets are being uploaded right now so I'll post them later =w=

Were any of those matchups difficult for your Lucario?

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I won my first tourney!! It was only a 15 man bracket but it still had the #2 and #3 PR of Columbus there! Didn't drop a set going all Lucario =w=

Also had to fight through Cloud, Bayonetta, Mario, Shulk(Carls' Shulk is the truth, tho :v ) and ZSS(twice) to win Grands in a close 3-2 set.

The sets are being uploaded right now so I'll post them later =w=

Well done, got any vids?

 

[BugCatcherWill]

Were any of those matchups difficult for your Lucario?

ZSS and Mario really gave me a run for my money and had to clutch it out at times (Like I was at a 90% defect at one time and did a 70% string to take a game)

Well done, got any vids?

I'm pretty tired right now, so I'll post the sets tomorrow lol

 

[smbmaster99MFGG]

[quote\So I've been doing some Shoryufloof labbing recently and I think I've got it down pretty well. I think I've also grasped when and when not to try and trap with it now. Can anyone suggest another significant tech to use as Lucario that I should focus on labbing next? I want to learn the most useful/important stuff first and work my way to the more obscure/situational stuff later but I'm not sure what those are.[/quote]

I've found wavebouncing to be extremely useful for tech chases, roll reads, spacing (force palm flame), and a means to bait your opponent into climbing up the ledge


Also, congrats will =P

 

[Eeveecario]

So I've been doing some Shoryufloof labbing recently and I think I've got it down pretty well. I think I've also grasped when and when not to try and trap with it now. Can anyone suggest another significant tech to use as Lucario that I should focus on labbing next? I want to learn the most useful/important stuff first and work my way to the more obscure/situational stuff later but I'm not sure what those are.

You can try Shield Drop Cancelled Platform drops, it's a movement option that gifts some extra frames and adds movement/complexity to your moves. Nothing crucial but it can snag some KOs and add some stuff to your mind-games.

To do this:

1. Start charging ASC on a platform.
2. When you're ready to drop the platform, press down.
3. As soon as you hear the stick hit the bottom, press shield.
4. You'll cancel ASC with a platform drop.

You can tell if you did it right if you don't see the shield bubble, and you see lucario dropping through the platform right after an ASC. You'll see the shield if you hit the shield button too late after pressing down, and get a spot-dodge if you hit shield too early.

Once again, is nothing too crucial to master as a lucario, but I feel that, the more movement options I have, the better I can do, so it never hurts to get familiar.

Also, learn to use wall jumps to mix-up your recover (even in BF or FD), it has saved my tail and snagged some KOs like that.

EDIT: Forgot to tell, that you can act as soon as you begin platform dropping, you can DJ, Attack, Air-Dodge, any aerial option is available as soon as you drop through a platform.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

You can try Shield Drop Cancelled Platform drops, it's a movement option that gifts some extra frames and adds movement/complexity to your moves. Nothing crucial but it can snag some KOs and add some stuff to your mind-games.

To do this:

1. Start charging ASC on a platform.
2. When you're ready to drop the platform, press down.
3. As soon as you hear the stick hit the bottom, press shield.
4. You'll cancel ASC with a platform drop.

You can tell if you did it right if you don't see the shield bubble, and you see lucario dropping through the platform right after an ASC. You'll see the shield if you hit the shield button too late after pressing down, and get a spot-dodge if you hit shield too early.

Once again, is nothing too crucial to master as a lucario, but I feel that, the more movement options I have, the better I can do, so it never hurts to get familiar.

Also, learn to use wall jumps to mix-up your recover (even in BF or FD), it has saved my tail and snagged some KOs like that.

EDIT: Forgot to tell, that you can act as soon as you begin platform dropping, you can DJ, Attack, Air-Dodge, any aerial option is available as soon as you drop through a platform.

Hey Eevee, would you happen to know how many frames it takes to shield drop and then do something? If it is less than jumpsquat... ASC may combo into shield drop UAir, DAir or even BAir or landing FP grab.
UTilt may have additional combos on platforms as well... I just need to remember to lab this.

 

[Eeveecario]

Hey Eevee, would you happen to know how many frames it takes to shield drop and then do something? If it is less than jumpsquat... ASC may combo into shield drop UAir, DAir or even BAir or landing FP grab.
UTilt may have additional combos on platforms as well... I just need to remember to lab this.

I'm sure it's faster than jump squatting, I don't remember the exact number of frames (maybe instant if I'm really positive with it), I remember smash corner talked about it once (not the same performing, but it should have some frame data about it).

Also, ASC -> Shield Drop Cancel -> Nair/Fair/Uair and I believe Bair it's a true combo because you avoid completely the jump squat animation, you just have to be able to buffer a DJ sometimes and it should be a true combo.
About landing FP grab... pretty sure it's not, but you can do a

ASC -> Shield Drop Cancel -> DJ ASAP -> Landing Dair1 -> FP Grab.

Sounds extreme but pretty sure it can work. I just like to perform this tech because it's so unexpected, you can hurl some AS and snag some KO's this way because it's never expected.

EDIT: Found the video but doesn't tell how many frames it takes to platform drop, I'll keep looking
EDIT2: Found it here, is just 1 frame lag, so enjoy labing.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I'm sure it's faster than jump squatting, I don't remember the exact number of frames (maybe instant if I'm really positive with it), I remember smash corner talked about it once (not the same performing, but it should have some frame data about it).

Also, ASC -> Shield Drop Cancel -> Nair/Fair/Uair and I believe Bair it's a true combo because you avoid completely the jump squat animation, you just have to be able to buffer a DJ sometimes and it should be a true combo.
About landing FP grab... pretty sure it's not, but you can do a

ASC -> Shield Drop Cancel -> DJ ASAP -> Landing Dair1 -> FP Grab.

Sounds extreme but pretty sure it can work. I just like to perform this tech because it's so unexpected, you can hurl some AS and snag some KO's this way because it's never expected.

EDIT: Found the video but doesn't tell how many frames it takes to platform drop, I'll keep looking
EDIT2: Found it here, is just 1 frame lag, so enjoy labing.

According to your calculator... DAir hit 1 does 10 frames knockback when Lucario and Bowser are at 0 same stock. That means if you are ABSOLUTELY frame perfect and do a perfect 1 frame before landing DAir hit 1... FP true combooooossssss at 0.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

Yooooo my matches from the local I won are on YouTube. I'll post them in the video thread =w=

 

[Lomogoto]

According to your calculator... DAir hit 1 does 10 frames knockback when Lucario and Bowser are at 0 same stock. That means if you are ABSOLUTELY frame perfect and do a perfect 1 frame before landing DAir hit 1... FP true combooooossssss at 0.

But dair has 9 frames of landing lag and FP grab is frame 9 . . .
So it will not combo at 0 and 0, but does at higher percents (which i would think is more important for if we die first)
Ive been messing around with this a bit though more focusing on people shielding on a platform and using dair to quickly land next to them and mix up none, one, or two hits of dair on shield
Sadly dair doesnt seem to cause enough shield stun to make it actually combo

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

But dair has 9 frames of landing lag and FP grab is frame 9 . . .
So it will not combo at 0 and 0, but does at higher percents (which i would think is more important for if we die first)
Ive been messing around with this a bit though more focusing on people shielding on a platform and using dair to quickly land next to them and mix up none, one, or two hits of dair on shield
Sadly dair doesnt seem to cause enough shield stun to make it actually combo

You will land laglessly if you hit and land on the first possible frame of an air attack.

 

[Lomogoto]

You will land laglessly if you hit and land on the first possible frame of an air attack.

Really?? As in you connect with the hitbox and have 0 landing lag frames even though dair has no auto cancel at the beginning of it? That just doesnt sound right to me

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Really?? As in you connect with the hitbox and have 0 landing lag frames even though dair has no auto cancel at the beginning of it? That just doesnt sound right to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spHWz-9F7cQ It requires absolute perfect timing though...

 

[Eeveecario]

It should be a string (maybe not a true combo, but it should be hard to break out) even without doing the frame perfect hit & land at the same time.

I mean, I have done several times the Dair1 -> FPG to get the KO, so basically is just doing the same at lower percent and getting the same damage because of the platform cancel...

What we CAN do instead, is changing a FPG to a reg grab in order to deal more damage (or maybe the stock) on platforms at lower %

Again, same input, just slightly different in the end.
ASC -> Shield Drop -> DJ ASAP -> Dair1 -> Grab -> [Follow up]

Comparing it to a solid-platform, it should be the same as ASC -> Jump Cancel -> Dair1 -> Grab, but it can be done faster and has a greater window to combo out, it should be a matter of creativity and inputs IMO.

 

[nannerham]

Hey guys heres the kill confirm I was talking about in the metagame thread

I go into more detail about this in the video thread but I can answer some questions while im here. (You guys can also be 1 step ahead of me and already know about this lol)

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Hey guys heres the kill confirm I was talking about in the metagame thread

I go into more detail about this in the video thread but I can answer some questions while im here. (You guys can also be 1 step ahead of me and already know about this lol)

FAir is weird with the angles it can send people. You had to of hit on pretty much the first active frame in the first active hitbox below and to the left of Lucario. You had 50 frames of hitstun inflicted when she was at 88 and you were at 60. You had about a 25-30 frame advantage, so BAir would true combo.

 

[nannerham]

FAir is weird with the angles it can send people. You had to of hit on pretty much the first active frame in the first active hitbox below and to the left of Lucario. You had 50 frames of hitstun inflicted when she was at 88 and you were at 60. You had about a 25-30 frame advantage, so BAir would true combo.

Yup I mentioned it being a true combo in the video thread, but I didn't know about it giving you 25-30 frame advantage that's crazy lol.

 

[Lomogoto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spHWz-9F7cQ It requires absolute perfect timing though...

Hmmm well i found more information on this (http://www.ssbwiki.com/Frame_cancelling) and i doubt dair has enough freeze frames to be too much help here, certainly not nine frames at 0%
Maybe more useful for backair?

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Hmmm well i found more information on this (http://www.ssbwiki.com/Frame_cancelling) and i doubt dair has enough freeze frames to be too much help here, certainly not nine frames at 0%
Maybe more useful for backair?

I honestly take the Wiki stuff with a grain of salt. I'm guessing freeze refers to hitstun or could they be talking about hit lag? Citation needed.

It also bugs me like on Lucario's Smash Wiki page it does not cite where they got the aura %s and formulas for the graphs. If I were some random player I would be rather skeptical.

A detailed graph with %s for Brawl and Smash 4 are great to have because you can use it to figure out how much hitstun something should do which is vital to Luc's meta.

I mean it's not like we have used it to figure out Aura Sphere Cancel combos to Jump Cancel USmash or anything :B Every player should have as much access to info as we do in my opinion.

 

[JohnnstR]

So I've been doing some Shoryufloof labbing recently and I think I've got it down pretty well. I think I've also grasped when and when not to try and trap with it now. Can anyone suggest another significant tech to use as Lucario that I should focus on labbing next? I want to learn the most useful/important stuff first and work my way to the more obscure/situational stuff later but I'm not sure what those are.

Asc bair
Getup jump canceled with dair
Asc dair
B reverse/wavebounce/turnaround b?
Foxtrotting in neutral
Combos

 

[Croi]

Who's hype for the patch today????!!!!!

 

[nannerham]

Who's hype for the patch today????!!!!!

Now now its just maintenance tonight its probably some bugfixes and better stability online I wouldn't get your hopes up, if there's a patch hey that's great, but if there isn't keep those expectations low so you won't be super disappointed.

Edit: Welp my replays are destroyed thats what i get for being a non-believer lol

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Did some tests with ASC. I was able to combo Dr. Mario when he was at 48% ASC to JCU when Luc was at 47% in training mode. I hit with ASC twice (which only amounts to 1%) when both characters were at 47%, according to Eeveecario's calculator... That should NOT combo in 1.1.14, but it did.

Hitstun at those % would be 14 frames according to the calculator and you need 15 frames before first USmash hitbox comes out.

If the math is wrong we need to know.

Long story short it looks like ASC was buffed hitstunwise. We need a dataminer to tell us for sure though.

 

[Nysyr]

Doesn't look like there's any Frame Data changes for Lucario, based on the change diffs.

 

[nannerham]

Lucario got some decent indirect buffs, sheiks needles and dthrow being nerfed (possibly losing the 50/50) makes the MU quite a bit easier and ZSS getting a 2% nerf on all of her aerials (except bair which got buffed) is something worth noting since her moves are most likely less safe on shield.

 

[Lomogoto]

Lucario got some decent indirect buffs, sheiks needles and dthrow being nerfed (possibly losing the 50/50) makes the MU quite a bit easier and ZSS getting a 2% nerf on all of her aerials (except bair which got buffed) is something worth noting since her moves are most likely less safe on shield.

Yes i dont know if i would call those lucario buffs but i will gladly take it!

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Rest in peace, LucarioMoney...

 

[Ya Boy Evee]

was wondering, does aura nullify staled moves as it increases?

 

[smbmaster99MFGG]

i don't believe so, it's just less noticeable because aura can still cause really early kills

 

[nannerham]

I entered a round robin in my area and got 2nd going solo lucario, there were so many different characters it gave me tons of MU experience which was nice. I only lost 1 set and it was to the guy who got first (guy has a crazy luigi, he goes toe to toe with craftis who #3 on the PR over here) but once it was over I did way better against him in friendlies idk why lol. To anyone who's never entered a round robin before do it they are actually amazing.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Rosalina is analyzing Lucario at her sub-forum again. You can go to the following thread link if you have anything to contribute for the match-up.

http://smashboards.com/threads/415284/

 

[Nysyr]

So despite my disdain for Bidou, I've been quite curious as to how much application we can really get out of it. Given that U-tilt is out best grounded OoS option, being able to micro space and reverse it already seems like a massive plus. I personally only have a 3ds (reasons), so I can only really observe, but I would love to see an optimized use of this for Lucario.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Happy birthday Eeveecario

 

[Eeveecario]

Happy birthday Eeveecario

Thanks bro! ( ^w^) /

 

[KakuCP9]

Yo Eeveecario .Congrats on getting top16 on Concomics.

 

[Eeveecario]

Yo Eeveecario .Congrats on getting top16 on Concomics.

Hey! Thank you kindly! ( ^w^) /

Wish I could have been a better show, but really satisfied for the result after not playing smash for a long month! Hope you enjoyed the show!

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Hey! Thank you kindly! ( ^w^) /

Wish I could have been a better show, but really satisfied for the result after not playing smash for a long month! Hope you enjoyed the show!

Fight me again sometime, Eeveecario we need to try some footstool jab lock combos. I honestly do not think anyone is playing Lucario correctly currently. I have this gut feeling after looking at as much data as I have that there are still true practical setups that we haven't found or have overlooked.

I would also like to suggest a training method to perfect Jump Cancel USmash inputs.

 

[Eeveecario]

Fight me again sometime, Eeveecario we need to try some footstool jab lock combos. I honestly do not think anyone is playing Lucario correctly currently. I have this gut feeling after looking at as much data as I have that there are still true practical setups that we haven't found or have overlooked.

I would also like to suggest a training method to perfect Jump Cancel USmash inputs.

Surely, but currently I don't have a Wii U, My only playing option is the 3ds, that's fine with you?

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Surely, but currently I don't have a Wii U, My only playing option is the 3ds, that's fine with you?

I think I'll pass on 3DS. I have tasted the glorious wired connection and with the distance between where you are and where I am the lag is gonna be eh on a 3DS.

Did something happen to your Wii U?