Social Lucario Social: Aura Dog Days of Summer

[BugCatcherWill]

Here's to hoping Sakurai won't nerf Lucario

 

[Loota]

I'm certain that we confirmed this video was highly exaggerated in the Skype group. But it's nonetheless an incredibly powerful strategy.

Yeah, it's definitely exaggerated and on purpose too, but it kind of match the silliness of it I'm just not too sure if strategies like this and the order tackle reflector thingie are healthy for competition, I'm currently trying to find solutions to prevent the custom doubles metagame from revolving around those without going too ban happy as a TO.

Also, I really appreciate that article you wrote! Here's hoping that we'll be seeing less of that stupid mentality in the future.

 

[Pentao]

Yeah, it's definitely exaggerated and on purpose too, but it kind of match the silliness of it I'm just not too sure if strategies like this and the order tackle reflector thingie are healthy for competition, I'm currently trying to find solutions to prevent the custom doubles metagame from revolving around those without going too ban happy as a TO.

Also, I really appreciate that article you wrote! Here's hoping that we'll be seeing less of that stupid mentality in the future.

Well in the case of the Pikmin + Reflector stuff, it's highly likely that'll get patched out, as it is pretty much a glitch.


As for Marvel Spheres, as strong as they are, they're really goddamn slow and easy as hell to reflect. Characters with non-static reflectors or absorption specials actually do a huge number against Snaring Spheres in general, which pretty much forces any Villager to throw them at point blank range or risk having it reflected. Falco and Palutena's reflectors can be tossed out at a safe range rather easily and can really screw it up.

I have a local bimonthly later today, starting at 4 PM EST if anyone wants to tune in. It'll be streamed here and it'll be uploaded to Youtube sometime in the next few days.

Grats on second Croi. Your Duck Hunt can shenanigans were incredible to watch, and I was glad to see you rep Piercing Sphere if only for a single match against Drake's Rosalina.

Out of curiosity, why did you bring in Snaring Sphere against his R.O.B.? I always felt that Snaring was a bad choice against anyone with a reflector because of how easy it is to reflect, and I figured if anything, you'd pick normal or piercing against his R.O.B.

 

[SmashRacer]

Here it is.
The finshed version of my Launch Speeds chart: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bf5flex4utiz2ul/Lucario Aura Launch Speeds All Moves Versus Mode.xlsx?dl=0
Tell me what you guys think of it

 

[Croi]

Out of curiosity, why did you bring in Snaring Sphere against his R.O.B.? I always felt that Snaring was a bad choice against anyone with a reflector because of how easy it is to reflect, and I figured if anything, you'd pick normal or piercing against his R.O.B.

The short answer is that idk lol

The longer answer is that I thought, with Lylat's plethora of platforms, I'd be able to "own" the real-estate a little easier with Snaring. I also figured that ROB's recovery was linear enough to fall for Snaring whenever I pushed him to the ledge. It turns out, these were ill-informed judgements.

 

[RT]

Here's to hoping Sakurai won't nerf Lucario

Nah, it'll just be no changes, which makes things less interesting.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

Here it is.
The finshed version of my Launch Speeds chart: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bf5flex4utiz2ul/Lucario Aura Launch Speeds All Moves Versus Mode.xlsx?dl=0
Tell me what you guys think of it

It's just a blank page for me. I dunno why

Nah, it'll just be no changes, which makes things less interesting.

I'm just afraid Sakurai will listen to people saying "Lucario is OP because Aura and Rage stack. Also because I'm not good enough to beat him!" And get a needless nerf. It happened to Greninja and it's probably going to happen to Diddy Kong (although "needless" is still up for debate)

 

[Croi]

Lucario's Aura being really strong was the very first thing Sakurai ever said about Lucario, so I doubt they'll change that. If anything, they'd remove Rage before they do anything drastic to Aura.

Anyone will complain about literally anything in this game if it beats them.

 

[DomBadZZZ]

@ Croi Great idea with the piercing AS on rosalina im totally using this haha

 

[Sinister Slush]

Anyone will complain about literally anything in this game if it beats them.

Does if count if I get beaten by Diddy and Sheik

 

[Zoa]

Managed to attend a weekly tonight (got moved over from Sunday), and ended up winning my first tournament ever. I'm a strict Luc main, so it was nice to come so far after a very short time. The johning was real though. I remember Zero lashing out about Luc, but damn was this crazy.

"Your mechanic was carrying you!"
"I only lost to your aura. It's OP!"
"Lucario is broken. I'd like to see you win with Link." (which I did)

I even had one guy john about the music messing up his playing. Thank God for your article, @ Croi . It got them to shut up.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

Managed to attend a weekly tonight (got moved over from Sunday), and ended up winning my first tournament ever. I'm a strict Luc main, so it was nice to come so far after a very short time. The johning was real though. I remember Zero lashing out about Luc, but damn was this crazy.

"Your mechanic was carrying you!"
"I only lost to your aura. It's OP!"
"Lucario is broken. I'd like to see you win with Link." (which I did)

I even had one guy john about the music messing up his playing. Thank God for your article, @ Croi . It got them to shut up.

Dude, congratulations!!

Sucks that people aren't willing to accept their own mistakes and blame Lucario's Aura, though...

I get quite the bit of flack at my locals when people see me using Lucario. I even got called gimmicky by a Rosaluma player, of all people...

Although I'm not really helping our case when I make 3 stock comebacks on more than one occasion...

 

[SmashRacer]

Nah, it'll just be no changes, which makes things less interesting.

I hope they fix his Jab, so it can link properly together at any percentage, his FTiit so the second hit doesn't whiff at random times and reduce the BKB on his Fair so he can be a combo monster again

 

[Zoa]

Dude, congratulations!!

Sucks that people aren't willing to accept their own mistakes and blame Lucario's Aura, though...

I get quite the bit of flack at my locals when people see me using Lucario. I even got called gimmicky by a Rosaluma player, of all people...

Although I'm not really helping our case when I make 3 stock comebacks on more than one occasion...

Thanks. It was fun outside of the johns. I beat a bunch of my practice partners and even had a close match in the finals (ended up climbing through loser's bracket). I don't think people really look at other viewpoints of the aura mechanic before saying things like that.

 

[Loota]

As for Marvel Spheres, as strong as they are, they're really goddamn slow and easy as hell to reflect. Characters with non-static reflectors or absorption specials actually do a huge number against Snaring Spheres in general, which pretty much forces any Villager to throw them at point blank range or risk having it reflected. Falco and Palutena's reflectors can be tossed out at a safe range rather easily and can really screw it up.

But the thing is that point blank range in itself is the problem, there's no way you can avoid those situations for the whole match, especially against Villager. The insanely good rolls and shield make it dangerous to commit to practically anything and even if you're just out of it's range, it will quickly suck you in and OHKO you. Commiting to relfectors gives Villager just the opportunity he needs to safely throw it out after the reflecting frames are over, it's a really unfavorable guessing game. Frame 5 is unreactable and even shielding and spotdodging are useless against it.

I would imagine that only Rosalina is somewhat able to stop it from reaching it's nightmarish potential by abrsorbing Lucario's spheres before Villager will be able to pocket it. Even then it's impossible to stay in control for the whole match. I'm hoping that the patch will nerf Villager's pocket so that it doesn't actually buff the pocketed projectiles at all, as it would still be a really good move. This would solve almost all of the stupid doubles shenanigans involving Villager.

 

[Pentao]

But the thing is that point blank range in itself is the problem, there's no way you can avoid those situations for the whole match, especially against Villager. The insanely good rolls and shield make it dangerous to commit to practically anything and even if you're just out of it's range, it will quickly suck you in and OHKO you. Commiting to relfectors gives Villager just the opportunity he needs to safely throw it out after the reflecting frames are over, it's a really unfavorable guessing game. Frame 5 is unreactable and even shielding and spotdodging are useless against it.

I would imagine that only Rosalina is somewhat able to stop it from reaching it's nightmarish potential by abrsorbing Lucario's spheres before Villager will be able to pocket it. Even then it's impossible to stay in control for the whole match. I'm hoping that the patch will nerf Villager's pocket so that it doesn't actually buff the pocketed projectiles at all, as it would still be a really good move. This would solve almost all of the stupid doubles shenanigans involving Villager.

Unfortunately, I don't see the patch doing that, namely because Villager already has a custom Pocketing move that doesn't buff projectiles.

Otherwise, I don't know enough about doubles to really say anything else. I'd hate to see Snaring Sphere nerfed any harder though, because in singles, the end lag makes it much harder to advocate for match ups as it is.

 

[Croi]

Has anyone thought of doing this?

Drop-down Double-Jump B-Reversed Aura Sphere into Aura Sphere Jump-Cancelled Up Smash.

Unfortunately, I don't see the patch doing that, namely because Villager already has a custom Pocketing move that doesn't buff projectiles.

Just swap the numbers around. Now default is balanced, and custom is both zany and overpowered, and it's a custom so it doesn't have to be competitively balanced. Sakurai wins!

 

[Loota]

Has anyone thought of doing this?

Drop-down Double-Jump B-Reversed Aura Sphere into Aura Sphere Jump-Cancelled Up Smash.

I love flashy stuff like that in general and always try to use those as much as I can in actual matches too just to feel the imaginary black shades descending to my face. That's one thing I've sometimes thrown out in Brawl too though it's really risky against patient opponents, totally worth it though when successful.

I've actually been thinking of making a video compilation of all these cool movement options and tricks we have, I'll probably start asking for ideas from here after I've run out of them myself.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Has anyone thought of doing this?

Drop-down Double-Jump B-Reversed Aura Sphere into Aura Sphere Jump-Cancelled Up Smash.



Just swap the numbers around. Now default is balanced, and custom is both zany and overpowered, and it's a custom so it doesn't have to be competitively balanced. Sakurai wins!

@ Eeveecario Does that and I am totally stealing that from him.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

Has anyone thought of doing this?

Drop-down Double-Jump B-Reversed Aura Sphere into Aura Sphere Jump-Cancelled Up Smash.

I try doing stuff like that, but it doesn't really work.....

I just need to sit down for a day and practice B-reversing and Wavebouncing until I have it down

 

[Space thing]

So I had a funny moment the other day. There's this good ZSS player who TO'd a few tournaments around Columbus and participates in most of them. He absolutely hates fighting Lucarios because every time he's faced them in tourney he's always lost. So we were all playing friendlies and I ask to fight him. I pick Lucario and he just gives me that look. I say something like "You're gonna have to learn this matchup someday".

So we go Random and end up on Lylat (ugh), and I accidentally suicide at 40%. Second stock he kills me off the top from an Up-B. He's only at, like 70% and I'm on my last stock. I manage to bring it to last stock with him at 50% and I'm at 130%. I get a AS while he does the flip-kick and kill him, winning the match.

He just looks at me, laughing my *** off, and says "And THIS is why I go Lucario ditto's!"

I'm pretty sure I know who you're talking about and I may have contributed to his hate lol.

And yea, don't listen to the haters; learn to ignore them or learn to enjoy their rage. Making a comeback like that isn't easy even with Lucario. Any other character and people would be impressed, but no, Lucario gets no respect. >.>

And congrats on the win, @ Zoa !

 

[Eeveecario]

@ Eeveecario Does that and I am totally stealing that from him.

Hahaha yeah!
It's a great maneuver after getting read of get-up attacks, or having trouble getting on to stage. I suggest trying it after 75% of damage, otherwise the ASC will be too small and your foe can react and punish you.
If you happen to miss the inputs, you'll have to re-grab the ledge, open to some punishes.

You should try it!
(Also, thanks @ MythTrainerInfinity for the credit, but I didn't discovered it!)

 

[AlexoftheAura]

Has anyone thought of doing this?

Drop-down Double-Jump B-Reversed Aura Sphere into Aura Sphere Jump-Cancelled Up Smash.

Tried that in tournament the other day... that's how I learned Yoshi leans back pretty far when he fsmashes.

 

[Brinzy]

Tried that in tournament the other day... that's how I learned Yoshi leans back pretty far when he fsmashes.

Oh hello you.

I was the Ness that walked into your Ganon utilt and then ganoncide last night.

 

[RT]

I love walking into Ganon's utilt.

 

[MandL27]

What's the better way to slow a fall, Double Team or dairs? I've done dair in a failed Lucario Ken Combo and noticed that it reset his falling speed, so I'm wondering if it's worth losing the extra slowdown to be able to act sooner.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

What's the better way to slow a fall, Double Team or dairs? I've done dair in a failed Lucario Ken Combo and noticed that it reset his falling speed, so I'm wondering if it's worth losing the extra slowdown to be able to act sooner.

It really depends on the situation. Ususally dair is the move of choice because it's fast, and doesn't leave you open to punishment if you whiff a double team.

If the opponent is eager to hit you, and is recklessly using aerial, than Double Team would be a better option. However, you can easily suicide if you Double Team off the stage, so keep that in mind

 

[MandL27]

It really depends on the situation. Ususally dair is the move of choice because it's fast, and doesn't leave you open to punishment if you whiff a double team.

If the opponent is eager to hit you, and is recklessly using aerial, than Double Team would be a better option. However, you can easily suicide if you Double Team off the stage, so keep that in mind

So using dairs is generally the better option, since the few non-AI players I've played don't aerial-spam.
Can't you Extreme Speed out of Double Team, provided you don't hit a blastline first?

 

[BugCatcherWill]

So using dairs is generally the better option, since the few non-AI players I've played don't aerial-spam.
Can't you Extreme Speed out of Double Team, provided you don't hit a blastline first?

You can, but I've had situations where I've DT'ed off the stage, try to Extreme Speed back, and I get punished. I've even been Meteor Smashed trying to return in that circumstance

 

[Enemis]

So assuming anyone remembers me from like a 2 months ago, hi again XD

Since my absence though, Ive managed to participate in 2 different locals tournaments.
The first of which I got beat pretty bad. ^^" but after incorporating some techniques discussed here, I did a lot better in the second one. AS charge to jump cancel up smash is my new best friend. ;w; also the second tournament had custom moves on, and I got to see how difficult it was for cario since he doesn't have the best custom options. I ended up just going with his default moves since I know those best.

The worst trouble I had was against this charizard. He wasn't even good, he just exploited two of his custom moves. Dragon rush with its multiple hits and safe on shield nature. It blocked AS too. Then he used the up b with the huge amount of knockback. It also has a deceptively larger hit box so it catches you when you're not expecting it.. And with even a little rage that move was able to kill me at like 65 on battlefield. I managed to win but barely. I had to play incredibly defensive wich irritated me. Overall though, customs didn't make lucario unplayable or anything. You just gotta adapt well to the new tricks. Ironically I lost to someone who wasn't even using them lol.

I know we're probably not going to get a buff in the patch tomorrow, but even if we dont, we'll be much better off when the higher tiers get their much needed nerfs.

 

[AlexoftheAura]

Oh hello you.

I was the Ness that walked into your Ganon utilt and then ganoncide last night.

Heh, sorry.

 

[Neiroa]

Has anyone thought of doing this?

Drop-down Double-Jump B-Reversed Aura Sphere into Aura Sphere Jump-Cancelled Up Smash.

I did this at a local tournament once. This has impressed the people who saw it, but the opponent has shielded and therefore I could not use a smash attack.
It's a really cool technique. I've learned it from ~Radiance~ wavebouncing turorial.

 

[Brinzy]

Heh, sorry.

I quit kinda early because our connection was awful and I didn't feel like embarrassing myself more.

 

[Pentao]

asdfsdfs I FINALLY broke my curse of placing 2nd every single time in tournaments by taking the whole thing home <3 I doubt it would've felt so good if I didn't beat a Diddy in WF and GF who happened to beat me the last two times we faced. It's like I felled my personal final boss of this game.

Just saw the Winner's Final Video. I was NOT expecting the match to end that way. I knew you were going to win it, but I kept thinking "Oh, he's gonna clutch it with a Force Palm grab with this kind of percent!" And then... that happened. It was so beautiful. The pause that happened too just was icing on the cake.

 

[AlexoftheAura]

I quit kinda early because our connection was awful and I didn't feel like embarrassing myself more.

Ganon's stupid, always remember that.

 

[Brinzy]

Ganon's stupid, always remember that.

As a zelda main, I gotta agree. : )

But more to the point, your Lucario was frightening! Only faced it once but he moved faster than I am used to seeing.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

Ganon's stupid, always remember that.

Bruh, there's no slammin' the Ganon.

 

[Croi]

Besides Lucario, what is everyone's favourite Pokemon?

Mine is Arbok.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

Besides Lucario, what is everyone's favourite Pokemon?

Mine is Arbok.

Mine's Metagross. When Stephen completely wrecked my team in Sapphire when I was 7 (and again in Emerald) with his crazy Metagross, I immediately thought: "Dang.....I want one of those"

 

[MandL27]

I personally really like Lugia. Seeing that Shadow Lugia's palette is one of Mewtwo's upcoming alts is pretty cool.