Social Lucario Social: Aura Dog Days of Summer

[Croi]

It's not a copypasta, he posted his response inside the quote.

 

[RT]

I would simply argue that it creates unfair bias to let one character use customs yet the others cannot because reasons. Same for for Mii Fighters. All characters have a default moveset, this fact cannot be argued no matter how hard anyone tries.

 

[Nysyr]

Just putting it out there, a person can be "nice" but still be devoid of empathy.

You know who you are

 

[Steam]

Just putting it out there, a person can be "nice" but still be devoid of empathy.

You know who you are

Please no more personal attacks from or to anyone on this thread.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Man, these videos talk a lot without saying anything. It took him seven minutes to say that Lucario gets stronger with Aura, but he is really weak without it. Followed by his opinion on Lucario's tier placing.

Maybe these videos are supposed to be super, super basic, as an entry level for people that have never played Smash before much less a character, but that's honestly not something I've come to expect from the best Smash 4 player out there. But then again, if he tried to get really technical about a character he doesn't as deeply understand as someone who mains him, we'd probably just laugh about how wrong he would be on some points.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is, Zero can do no right

They're most definitely meant for entry level I think. If ya think about it, the majority of competitive players are made up of entry level, with only a few people who can take money away from this game consistently. I guess it'd probably not be worth the effort to get super in depth when he already gets his views this way..

pFFT as you said, we're gonna be horribly critical about it regardless. B)





???

Um btw.
What's up with all the arguing going on here?
This is really rare.
You guys don't really in-fight.
I like it better when we just talk **** about OTHER people outside the thread. :3

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I would simply argue that it creates unfair bias to let one character use customs yet the others cannot because reasons. Same for for Mii Fighters. All characters have a default moveset, this fact cannot be argued no matter how hard anyone tries.

Well few issues with this.

They can use "custom" move sets with the option off. Same with online tourneys, you can use any layout you want.

They actually are focused to be balanced more than any other customs in the game.

 

[RT]

Well few issues with this.

They can use "custom" move sets with the option off. Same with online tourneys, you can use any layout you want.

They actually are focused to be balanced more than any other customs in the game.

Be that as it may, they have a DEFAULT moveset. Turn on the game or create the Mii Fighter, the moveset they start with is default. This is fact.

And Palutena plays drastically different with customs vs without customs.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Be that as it may, they have a DEFAULT moveset. Turn on the game or create the Mii Fighter, the moveset they start with is default. This is fact.

And Palutena plays drastically different with customs vs without customs.

Is that even their default when they are characters you create and customize by default?

 

[Space thing]

Be that as it may, they have a DEFAULT moveset. Turn on the game or create the Mii Fighter, the moveset they start with is default. This is fact.

They're not a playable character until you make one. They're supposed to customizable fighters, that's the point. Arguing otherwise always seemed silly to me.

You could argue whether they should be legal or not, but the whole 1111 only thing is just plain arbitrary.

 

[RT]

They're not a playable character until you make one. They're supposed to customizable fighters, that's the point. Arguing otherwise always seemed silly to me.

Really now at the first sentence. You're not addressing my argument that the Mii FIghters have a DEFAULT moveset. If the game gave the Miis a random moveset each time they are created, you could say "RT is wrong, he's an idiot!" and I'd concede you have a valid point. But every time you create one, they have the same starting DEFAULT moveset. Please argue this FACT.

You could argue whether they should be legal or not, but the whole 1111 only thing is just plain arbitrary.

...do people not know what the definition of DEFAULT is...?

The 1111 moveset is the DEFAULT moveset. THIS IS NOT ARBITRARY, THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN ARGUE AGAINST THIS.

I honestly have no words right now...why do people complicate everything...

 

[Space thing]

Ok, let's say 1111 is default for Miis. Why should that matter? The game doesn't restrict you to those movesets when the customs are off. So why then should Miis be restricted to 1111?

The game has no definition of default in the way that you are describing. I made things pretty simple with what is what. Idk how that's complicating things.

 

[RT]

Ok, let's say 1111 is default for Miis. Why should that matter? The game doesn't restrict you to those movesets when the customs are off. So why then should Miis be restricted to 1111?

It matters because it's a default moveset. Other characters have a default moveset when customs turned off. So guess what? Now the Mii Fighters and Palutena do too! BOOM. Alert the media of this breakthrough...

The game has no definition of default in the way that you are describing. I made things pretty simple with what is what. Idk how that's complicating things.

I want you to go create a brand new Mii Fighter RIGHT NOW. So, what shows up when one is created and nothing is changed? I guarantee 1111...every...single...time. Now, assuming you know what the definition of default is...and applying this to what can be observed....HOORAY.

It's really that simple folks.

 

[Space thing]

Ok, let me put this another. Do we only play "default" characters or do we play characters with customs off? If the former, the only reason to say as such is to deal with Miis by saying they can only use 1111. If the latter, "default" has nothing has nothing to do with it. Mii's movesets are NOT custom moves in the same way as other characters.

My issue is that saying we play "default" is weird, random, an external idea, and only there because we don't want to actually talk about whether we should use Miis or not. Miis are a completely separate issue from customs.

That's what I mean by saying that "All characters have a default moveset" is arbitrary and not actually based on anything that matters in game. The very idea of "default" in this case is suspect and actually over complicates things.

EDIT: Oh and the idea that Mii's 1111 is default because that's what they start with is still flawed. The character isn't made until after you leave the Mii customization menu and hit save and quit. Meaning, you need to decide that your Mii will have 1111 before it's made. A stronger argument might include the fact that Kirby always copies the 1 variant of Mii's neutral B, but that's still limited and my argument doesn't actually care about that stuff, so yea.

 

[RT]

Well, I give up. Characters having default movesets is now an arbitrary idea, apparently. No, the definition of default is arbitrary.

I hope this community continues to make stupid choices like it did in Brawl. Because that ended well.

 

[Steam]

Goomy, level 24, adamant nature

 

[BugCatcherWill]

Goomy, level 24, adamant nature

I thought RT had a Lonely Nature?

 

[RT]

I am a private contractor in this civil war.

You can only buy my loyalty with stuff a Goomy loves.

Which from my understanding is leaves.

: s

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Ok, let me put this another. Do we only play "default" characters or do we play characters with customs off? If the former, the only reason to say as such is to deal with Miis by saying they can only use 1111. If the latter, "default" has nothing has nothing to do with it. Mii's movesets are NOT custom moves in the same way as other characters.

My issue is that saying we play "default" is weird, random, an external idea, and only there because we don't want to actually talk about whether we should use Miis or not. Miis are a completely separate issue from customs.

That's what I mean by saying that "All characters have a default moveset" is arbitrary and not actually based on anything that matters in game. The very idea of "default" in this case is suspect and actually over complicates things.

EDIT: Oh and the idea that Mii's 1111 is default because that's what they start with is still flawed. The character isn't made until after you leave the Mii customization menu and hit save and quit. Meaning, you need to decide that your Mii will have 1111 before it's made. A stronger argument might include the fact that Kirby always copies the 1 variant of Mii's neutral B, but that's still limited and my argument doesn't actually care about that stuff, so yea.

It is easier to say to use 1111 instead of picking and choosing, which can be seen as unfair to every character with good customs. In a non-custom environment every character uses 1111, so why not Miis?

Edit: What about pokepuffs, RT?

 

[Space thing]

It is easier to say to use 1111 instead of picking and choosing, which can be seen as unfair to every character with good customs. In a non-custom environment every character uses 1111, so why not Miis?

Pit and Dark Pit are basically the same character with a different custom load out. I've heard this makes Dark Pit better in the Rosa match up. Is that unfair? Marth and Lucina are different, but I doubt Marth players would find playing Lucina very difficult. Sheik is the best character in the game, but we don't call it unfair to pick her. 1111 Miis are bad characters. If they're unfair ban them all together.

But yes, you definitely have a point. But 1111 is basically a compromise that satisfies few. Again, this is why I said it's about whether Miis should be legal or not and not whether it should be 1111 or any moveset (and I never said I was for or against either position). Miis are a clear special case for several reasons. They are the only character able to play with movesets that aren't 1111 with customs off. Blindly treating them the same as every other character seems strange to me.

People will do what they want of course.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

1111 being what it is when you create a mii, because something had to be first, does not make it their default.

If I play palutena with customs off 1111 is what appears, this is not the case for Miis.

I can turn customs off in the upper right corner and still use the other load outs.

 

[Steam]

???

Um btw.
What's up with all the arguing going on here?
This is really rare.
You guys don't really in-fight.
I like it better when we just talk **** about OTHER people outside the thread. :3

Shield your eyes sunny. This is all my fault, I am sorry. we've failed you as a generation, the world you will inherit will be filled with pain and despair

 

[RT]

1111 being what it is when you create a mii, because something had to be first, does not make it their default.

I...

What?

What something starts with IS the default setting. Is this not what a default setting is? Please tell me if I'm wrong.

You turn on Smash, go to VS mode, it defaults to Time mode with 2 minutes. Change the settings to stocks with a timer (you're CUSTOMIZING the ruleset here btw). Reset the game, go back to VS mode, and it goes back to...wait for it...timer with 2 minutes. Hence a DEFAULT setting.

Now apply the same thing to Miis. Create a new one, it defaults to 1111 and no equips. Go ahead and CUSTOMIZE (key word) it by adding equip for critical hit and give it 2323 and do whatever else. Now delete it. Now create a new one. Oh look, 1111 again. It's a DEFAULT.

Come on guys..I am trying to keep it simple as possible. None of this "default is arbitrary" or "what is default?" nonsense. You're trying to muddle a very clear-cut case with tangents.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I...

What?

What something starts with IS the default setting. Is this not what a default setting is? Please tell me if I'm wrong.

You turn on Smash, go to VS mode, it defaults to Time mode with 2 minutes. Change the settings to stocks with a timer (you're CUSTOMIZING the ruleset here btw). Reset the game, go back to VS mode, and it goes back to...wait for it...timer with 2 minutes. Hence a DEFAULT setting.

Now apply the same thing to Miis. Create a new one, it defaults to 1111 and no equips. Go ahead and CUSTOMIZE (key word) it by adding equip for critical hit and give it 2323 and do whatever else. Now delete it. Now create a new one. Oh look, 1111 again. It's a DEFAULT.

Come on guys..I am trying to keep it simple as possible. None of this "default is arbitrary" or "what is default?" nonsense. You're trying to muddle a very clear-cut case with tangents.

I'm not muddling it.

Can characters use customs with the option off? Nope.

Miis can though, it's arbitrary to say 1111 is the default in this situation especially with characters you have to set up their movesets.

No other character makes you set up a movesets to play them, but Miis do.

1111 is not the default because Miis have no default.

 

[RT]

I am going by the GAME'S definition of what the default moveset is. Everytime you create a new Mii, it starts with 1111. This does not change no matter how many times you do it. You can claim it's arbitrary, but it's the default. It never changes.

The game has defined a default for us. We can go back and forth on what is default, but THE GAME gives us a default moveset. You can argue with the game, but everytime you click "Create" the same thing will show up, 1111.

Go to any other character look at how the moves are arranged and note that all other characters have move 1 as their default. How does this not apply to Miis then, especially when they start with move 1, the slot for default moves, upon being created?

If you want to say they don't have a default moveset, then fine, they can become an illegal/banned character (which many other competitive games do anyways). I'd rather not, because they do have a default moveset as defined by the game itself.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I am going by the GAME'S definition of what the default moveset is. Everytime you create a new Mii, it starts with 1111. This does not change no matter how many times you do it.

The game has defined a default for us. We can go back and forth on what is default, but THE GAME gives us a default moveset. You can argue with the game, but everytime you click "Create" the same thing will show up, 1111.

If you want to say they don't have a default moveset, then fine, they can become an illegal/banned character (which many other competitive games do anyways). I'd rather not, because they do have a default moveset as defined by the game itself.

I don't think we will see eye to eye on this.

I just don't think they have a "default" moveset and since they can still change this with customs off I don't see why but allow them to.

Just how I interpret it I guess.

 

[RT]

I added more how the game itself defines the default moveset.

If the moveset was left blank, I could agree. But the fact it always goes with move 1 and never anything else establishes a clear default in my eyes.

 

[Space thing]

I am going by the GAME'S definition of what the default moveset is. Everytime you create a new Mii, it starts with 1111. This does not change no matter how many times you do it. You can claim it's arbitrary, but it's the default. It never changes.

The game has defined a default for us. We can go back and forth on what is default, but THE GAME gives us a default moveset. You can argue with the game, but everytime you click "Create" the same thing will show up, 1111.

Go to any other character look at how the moves are arranged and note that all other characters have move 1 as their default. How does this not apply to Miis then, especially when they start with move 1, the slot for default moves, upon being created?

If you want to say they don't have a default moveset, then fine, they can become an illegal/banned character (which many other competitive games do anyways). I'd rather not, because they do have a default moveset as defined by the game itself.

You're focusing on an idea of "default" or always 1111. While @ #HBC | Red Ryu and I have been more concerned with what the game lets you do in vs mode. I don't see how your criteria has priority over what the game lets you do. Half of what I wanted to get across is that your criteria isn't absolute, as you claim. But I doubt our views are going to be changed by the other at this point.

Oh, and I said this before, but the Mii isn't actually made until you hit save and quit after being prompted to choose your costume, moveset, and equipment. Just immediately doing so gives you 1111, yes. But that's just as much a conscience decision to make a Mii as 1111, as making a 2122 would be.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Random thought, but Ash releasing his Goodra was dumb, though it made sense.

 

[RT]

Random thought, but Ash releasing his Goodra was dumb, though it made sense.

NO I HATE YOU. MORE RAGE.

But yeah, Ash is dumb.

: s

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

NO I HATE YOU. MORE RAGE.

But yeah, Ash is dumb.

: s

We need more love and peace!

 

[RT]

It was all a ploy, I wanted war all along.

: s

 

[Slythe]

Ash is dumb if you think he wants to be a pokemon master.

If his real goal is to remain a preteen forever he's A-tier. Maybe S.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ash is dumb if you think he wants to be a pokemon master.

If his real goal is to remain a preteen forever he's A-tier. Maybe S.

Well he is a vampire after all.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

;_; Goodra is such a cute Pokemon. It gives hugs in its dex entry.

Why would you send it to the shadow realm--I mean release something that lovable?

I cringe everytime uberchu beats a Lucario too.

 

[RE|Ook]

Hello and what are you quoting that in the luc social for?

I was trying to find something Palutena related to talk about. Should I have not? I'm kinda new here. ;-;

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I don't think we will see eye to eye on this.

I just don't think they have a "default" moveset and since they can still change this with customs off I don't see why but allow them to.

Just how I interpret it I guess.

Hmmm, overall though, what is the best way to handle this for both sides?

I am mostly indifferent to custom debates, but I do agree with DJ Gooms about 1111 for Miis. It could be debated for ages if one set should be used over the other as the "default" set and if it is fair to other characters (good luck tier list debates lol) However, since 1111 is technically the default "default" set I think using it in a no customs environment would be for the best. I think it would be the least debatable in my opinion.

@ RE|Ook are you the same ook who uploaded https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJkP6_yedKQ If so I must've watched it like a million times.

 

[SapphSabre777]

Hi, Lucario mains! Just wanted to drop this in: the Kirby boards are now discussing the aura dog, Lucario! If you could, please lend any sort of advice on the MU and input it HERE.

Thank you very much guys, and may the aura be with you!

 

[Senshu]

I think it'd be nice if during a debate, even if you disagree you could try talking calmly and with some amount of respect instead of talking to the other like they're dumb. Anywho.

As Red Ryu said, something had to be first, they weren't going to make blank ability 0, or use Stars, Rainbows and Blue Moons instead of numbers just to avoid technicalities. I don't think it would hurt the game to allow Miis to have their movesets.

 

[RT]

Nobody was called dumb during the debate. The only time dumb was mentioned was the community as a whole. Community includes everyone, so calling yourself dumb is assumed. Making that assumption you are right 100% all the time would be dumb. : s

 

[Grizzlpaw]

NO I HATE YOU. MORE RAGE.

But yeah, Ash is dumb.

: s

Yep... Ash is dum.

I still cry



Btw, wat up with all the drama lately?

Spoiler: This thread used to be like

Spoiler: Now it's all like~