~Lucario Match-Up Chart/Discussion- Rotation Eighteen: Olimar~

[OneWingedAngelo1]

Im going to have to back up Timbers on the DAC thing. If you have enough time to get out of the way on a larger stage you have enough time f-air him in the face (or throw an aura sphere,etc). And the same applies on a smaller stage, except that now avoiding it isnt as much of option, instead your only option is to just punish him, which really is probably the better option in every case, no?

So you are saying with less reaction time you have more of an advantage to do something that takes more reaction time to do? I don't see what you are talking about.

My arguement on this attack is that he can pull it off quickly and the chance you can see it coming is much less on this stage than on others. This increase the chance of him actually hitting with this.

Also something to add. If Link is trying to recover in a completely vertical fashion, then all you need to do is jump over him and press down on the c-stick. His up b is incredibly easy to stop if you can just get above it, which is harder to do the more level he is with the stage, but when he is trying to recover almost completely vertically, then he is quite vulnerable to Lucario's awesome d-air, just dont try it during the last swipe on Links recovery because you will either trade blows (which will probably work in your favor) or Link will hit first, but as long as you hit him before then, its all good.

I agree that you can in fact Down Air his recovery this way. The thing is in doing so you have now knocked him up in the air, this also increases the chances he has to get back on the ledge. If he was in KO range to begin with, then this isn't much of a big deal, but chances are you are trying to gimp him and since the attack didn't kill him he now can survive.

Also on the topic of the moving ledge on Frigate. Regardless of if the ledge is up or down, Link has less recovery options there than he would on an ordinary stage since there is one less ledge to grab and thats something Link really depends on for his recovery, since you know it kind of sucks, that means when you knock him off that side, you can predict pretty much EXACTLY how he is going to try to recover because he only has his up-b, and then just hit him again, and again, until he cant get back, though, it will probably only take one hit if he is forced to use his up-b.

I am not trying to argue that this is a good stage for Link, AT ALL, What I am saying is that this stage has more Pros for Link then just about any other stage of its kind. There are much better options to pick in this match up... why go here, there really is no point to recommend it when you have better options.

 

[manhunter098]

So you are saying with less reaction time you have more of an advantage to do something that takes more reaction time to do? I don't see what you are talking about.

My arguement on this attack is that he can pull it off quickly and the chance you can see it coming is much less on this stage than on others. This increase the chance of him actually hitting with this.

I agree that you can in fact Down Air his recovery this way. The thing is in doing so you have now knocked him up in the air, this also increases the chances he has to get back on the ledge. If he was in KO range to begin with, then this isn't much of a big deal, but chances are you are trying to gimp him and since the attack didn't kill him he now can survive.

I am not trying to argue that this is a good stage for Link, AT ALL, What I am saying is that this stage has more Pros for Link then just about any other stage of its kind. There are much better options to pick in this match up... why go here, there really is no point to recommend it when you have better options.

Less reaction time? Im pretty sure that given the same spacing situation on ANY stage, one that will allow you, to definitely be hit by his DAC will occur at the same distance on every stage. But I dont even think that said space actually exists. Links DAC is only truly useful when his opponent is vulnerable, not standing there perfectly ready to react. So you will still be just as vulnerable to it on a larger stage, because your close quarters game will put you in its range anyways. If anything a smaller stage is going to give Link less options because you can hit him off the edge of the stage much easier. And well, fighting Link your goal is to gimp him because its really easy and it works, so the easier it is for you to get him off the stage the better. While his DAC might become a bit more useful on a smaller stage, a small stage also hurts his game too, keep that in mind.


Onto the recovery part. If you can hit him with a d-air, you can take advantage of his rather uncomfortable position over nothing and follow it up. Your air game beats his, and his f-air has a rather long duration that can really mess up his chances to recover. Furthermore when Link has less damage, d-air will have less vertical knockback and thus help Link to recover less. To add on to this, simply keeping him off the the platform while it is down, is a great way to kill him since its going to go back up again eventually. If he cant land before then, he dies. When you look at it, Link trying to land on this platform, is MUCH more unfavorable to him than trying to sweetspot a ledge, its that simple.


To add a little more. Its been said, Links recovery sucks. Any stage that lets you capitalize on this is going to have a detrimental effect on the person using Link. While the stage has some advantages to offer Link, simply because its not as good for his recovery, the advantages it affords him are enough to put him at a disadvantage there.



Also keep in mind Im not saying this is THE counterpick stage when your playing against a Link as Lucario. But its an option. Plus as a counterpick stage, going there means you have already played a match, giving you the chance to understand your opponent better. If his play style doesnt look like he can take advantage of the pros offered to him by Frigate, then its definitely a decent option.

 

[tedward2000]

I agree. I was going to post that kind of post when I saw yours. All the threads in the Lucario boards is full of intelligent discussion, funny comments and friendly posts.

Except for this thread.

I think it's wrong that two persons ruin the discussion by fighting.
I don't think it's Angelo's or Timbers fault. It's the pair of them, making it all personal.

What Blue just said is entirely true.
Its because of this arguing, that I've stopped for the time, posting here.

I will come back, and add what needs to be added. But for now, im staying away from this.

A lot of this fighting was a cross over from the fighting during the DK discussion.

Both Timbers, and Angelo area making points that are correct and incorrect.
But you aren't focusing on what is right, and taking chunks out of each other about what is wrong. Stop doing it. Agree to disagree and fricken move on.

Your just making not only your selves look bad, but the Whole discussion and the Lucario Boards as well. You two are very intelligent, and know your facts. But with the arguing, what you know means nothing.

Just chill for a good long time, and don't bring this back up again.
I personally don't know this, but you could get banned for this sort of thing.
Dont get banned, and don't fight.

Ok?
thanks
-t2

 

[OneWingedAngelo1]

I would like to post this now so that everyone has enough time to see it and hopefully respond to it...

I would like to propose a vote on who we should discuss next. I feel that the next 2 in line are easy match ups and there are others who we can discuss that would seem more relevant to the competitive scene.

My Top 5 in order of Importance

1. Snake 3
2. Game and Watch 2
3. King Dedede 2
4. Zelda 2
5. Sonic 1

If everyone votes in a fashion of awarding 10 points between 5 people we can get a top vote out of this, ties if they happen will be broken by OPer (if he wants) or hold a revote (but that takes longer)

 

[Timbers]

Samus: 6
Zamus: 1
Yoshi: 1
Kirby: 1
Fox: 1

 

[tedward2000]

Kirby
Because real men are pink.
(jokes)
Naw, just follow order. Samus is next next.
-t2

 

[dguy6789]

I think we should just go in order. If we go through all the "popular" characters first, this thread will die down really fast if we have to discuss Ganondorf, Ike, Captain Falcon, Snake, and other lame characters all in a row.

 

[Timbers]

I don't know why people are so set on wanting to discuss more competitive matchups earlier on. If anything, I'd want to save that discussion for when the metagame has shaped itself a bit more, but oh well. Contradicting to what I said, I personally feel like we should bump Olimar, TL, Wolf, Snake, GaW, ROB, MK, Lucas into at least week 15-20. I'm all for diversity but saving arguably the most crucial matchups for last is no better than doing them all at first.

EDIT: How do people feel about this line-up?

 

[dguy6789]

Looks good to me.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

I'm all for that Timbers. That looks to be a smart move! It's better than just skipping all the lame ones, and also better than just going through them all and saving the hardest match-ups for a year from now. I like that idea.

Anyways...good stages against Link? Hmmm...I would have to say...

1. Green Greens. Why? Well...we all know Lucario rocks on this stage. The blocks prevent his projectile spam from reaching you, and the platform layout is horrible for him. Plus you can get easy KO's to the side with anything really, including throws. This stage does not particularly counter Link though, because it's really easy to make it back to the stage once off. The blast-zones are kinda small.

2. Frigate Orpheon. Why? This stage is similar to Green Greens in the respect that it's small. The stages size prevents the overuse of projectiles, and allows you to fight close-combat more easily. Plus you can wall cling all over the place, and the stage on the right side has a long blastzone, so he'll likely fall too far down to make it back up the ledge-less right edge. You should be good enough to control the match and keep him on the right side(for the most part, or at least send him off the stage in that direction most of the time). Good stage. The stage flip? So? It's an itty bitty teeny tiny area in the middle where he can duck down and be projectile master. You've got good approach options against him, figure it out. There's a ledge now though, but who cares? He'll still be too low vertically to make it back if you Extreme-Hog, or whatever it's called.

3. Delfino Plaza. This stage can set up for easy gimps, if you abuse his terrible recovery correctly. Also worthy of note is that all of the stopping points have smallish blastzones. They're very close.

I'm sure there are other stages, but those are just a few with lots of reasons why. Not sure if that's helpful or not JS. Hopefully yes, right?

 

[Lawn]

Wow, this is amazing!

I don't know if it works this way, but I definately think this thread deserves a sticky.

 

[OneWingedAngelo1]

Why would this thread die out if we talked about character that more people want to know how to go up against. We have just talked about 3 rather low popular characters and this thread has be quite lively. Why would getting information on what people want to know kill this thread? There are 6 threads on the first page of this forum asking about how to combat the "higher tier" characters. Isn't that what this thread is trying to do... give people something to read about how to combat specific characters?

"Lets wait for the meta to develop...."

After we submit our week of work on a character that verdict is final? We can go back and change things as new information comes along. And honestly... there are A LOT of major tournaments going on this summer, why not try and get Lucario's placement in those tournaments a little higher by providing the players some insight on what they are going to see. Once again... we can always go back and change something as new things develop.

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Hasn't it been a week? I suggest we talk about R.O.B. He's an interesting character to talk about and he's a popular tourney character.

We've pretty much covered everything about Link, we kill his projectiles with our own, we kill his air combat with our own, we kill his ground game with anything, and it'll take just one off-stage Dair to kill him.

 

[tedward2000]

Hasn't it been a week? I suggest we talk about R.O.B. He's an interesting character to talk about and he's a popular tourney character.

We've pretty much covered everything about Link, we kill his projectiles with our own, we kill his air combat with our own, we kill his ground game with anything, and it'll take just one off-stage Dair to kill him.

Well. looking at the board, I'd say we're still missing things for link.
Stages, Fundamental moves. We're 2 out of 4.
Not done quite yet.

And ROB is way down the line.
This question/response has popped up many a time, Jumping to another character that isn't next.

We have a order of things. If one character gets the right of way (lets say we do go with ROB), then other people will want that privilege. Soon we arn't discussing that character, but who goes next instead.

And no character is more important then the other.
So just wait a few months for ROB. =)
-t2

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Timbers made a good revised edition of the order. I thought it would work pretty good, it was mixed up better between good match-ups and bad match-ups for Lucario. Not sure who's next though.

 

[Zero_Gamer]

-Behavior of Character - Link loves his projectiles. He can spam arrows and his boomerang/bomb are very versatile False-Hope Attacks. They also have powerful ground attacks that have great range. Fortunately for us however, his attacks are slower than ours and more situational, as well as very punishable. His air combat, is... tricky. He has a nice sex-kick, his Z-air is nigh impossible to punish, his F/B airs are powerful multihitters, and his UpAir and Dair have the most priority in the game. The good thing is that his F/B airs almost never hit on the second part if you DI it properly, but if they do make contact, be ready for some serious damage and knockback.

-Fundamental Moves - Aura Sphere, grabs, properly spaced Fsmashes, and any aerial approach works fine on this character. At higher percentages the AS can outprioritize Link's projectiles and hit in the face. Fsmash... it's good, but you really don't need it, but as long as you can space and punish at the right times, it's okay. Aerials and grabs will destroy Link. You can easily roll to him and grab, after that, you have so many options, all of them leading into an easy gimp kill! I like to Fthrow --> Fair --> Fair. The combined knockback oughta be enough to kill him.

-How to Win - Just keep moving, those arrows and smashes can quickly pile on the damage, but as long as you move quickly, you'll be able to take him out, because Link has so few options against characters at close range. And, always pursue off the stage, Link's recovery is among the worst in the game, so you can easily hit him with an Fair, or if you feel like overkill, hit him with a Dair.

-Recommended Stages - Any stage is good, I almost exclusively fight on neutrals, but stages that will absolutely destroy Link are the moving ones. Rumble Falls, Rainbow Cruise, etc.
But DON'T pick Lylat Cruise, he can just camp in the center platform and spam arrows, then UpSmash when you try to approach. Since he has a higher rate of fire than you, it is impossible to outspam him.
I'm kind of on the fence about Pictochat, yeah it's a moving stage, but a bunch of parts will actually go into his favor (the building blocks, face and hand, wind, scattered spikes), it could go either way though, because we can easily camp through the certain parts that don't favor us and Link can't do the same on parts that don't favor him.

...Now can we talk about the next character?

 

[Timbers]

Why would this thread die out if we talked about character that more people want to know how to go up against. We have just talked about 3 rather low popular characters and this thread has be quite lively. Why would getting information on what people want to know kill this thread? There are 6 threads on the first page of this forum asking about how to combat the "higher tier" characters. Isn't that what this thread is trying to do... give people something to read about how to combat specific characters?

"Lets wait for the meta to develop...."

After we submit our week of work on a character that verdict is final? We can go back and change things as new information comes along. And honestly... there are A LOT of major tournaments going on this summer, why not try and get Lucario's placement in those tournaments a little higher by providing the players some insight on what they are going to see. Once again... we can always go back and change something as new things develop.

DK is one of the more played characters at tournies.

And with all due respect, if people need a guide on how to play against a character, they're not going to be placing in top 10 in any regional tournaments this summer. The matchup guide is just to help people get a feel against the matchup, not become pros before summer is over with.

 

[Fizzle]

And with all due respect, if people need a guide on how to play against a character, they're not going to be placing in top 10 in any regional tournaments this summer.

Hence why Azen never posts here.

Btw, there's doubles matches of him and Chillin at Critical Hit 3 up. Amazing play. Find them here: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=dookdigity

Can we move on now? A friend of mine plays Samus, and I always have a hard time getting around her zair. Could use a little advice.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

I agree. I was going to post that kind of post when I saw yours. All the threads in the Lucario boards is full of intelligent discussion, funny comments and friendly posts.

Except for this thread.

Ouch! : (

To be fair, this is the only thread that in-depthly discusses character match-ups. People have different opinions on certain match-ups, so there is bound to be conflict. But like I've said, conflicting ideas and heated discussion = good, and rude remarks and a negative attitude = bad.

I will only say this once more: Play nice!

I'm sure there are other stages, but those are just a few with lots of reasons why. Not sure if that's helpful or not JS. Hopefully yes, right?

Very much so. Keep it up!

...Now can we talk about the next character?

Wednesday is the beginning of the new week. Your enthusiasm pleases me, though. : )



About the next characters: I think I will use Timbers' chart, seeing as it has some "higher tier" characters coming up soon.

I've said this before, but there will always be someone who has a problem with a certain character, so it is important we discuss all of them.


Oh, and I have started to update. I'll have some new stuff tomorrow.

 

[Blue Flames]

^ Yeah, I did a spelling mistake on that post. Everything I mentioned was in this thread, but not EVERYWHERE, like we're used to on the Lucario boards. Sorry.

 

[Timbers]

About the next characters: I think I will use Timbers' chart, seeing as it has some "higher tier" characters coming up soon.

If you feel anything should be changed to balance it further, then let me know. I did feel at first that Wolf and TL are important matchups and should be discussed, but after looking at the chart, I decided to leave them towards the end. The lineup felt like it gave off a pretty good vibe, but if there's anything you want to reconsider, then let me know.

Would it be a good or bad choice to start posting up threads in other character's subforums regarding the matchups? It'd give us a further insight about the opponent, and what the opponent fears or how they react when playing against Lucario. On the downside we might get inaccurate information from players that may be inexperienced with their own character. Is it worth going into further analysis on the match?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Being a pretty compitent Link player... I'll tell you a little tip against him:

Link performs best when he's controlling the pace of the match... which isn't at ALL abnormal for any charachter... but Link.. well his ideal pace is SLOW. He wants you to be at mid distance the whole match so he can just RAIN projectiles at you. His projectile game is VERY good and can make even some of the most patient players frustrated enough to make a mistake. He's also a RIDICULOUSLY fast faller (I know the chart says Fox is the fastest... but, honestly, I've never seen anyone on the game fall quicker than link if he dicides to fastfall) so Lucario should be able to juggle him fairly well with, say, an uptilt... but good luck keeping him in the air.
Link is also Rather strong andf has a WIDE variety of REALLY good KO moves at his disposal... they just all tend to require some prediction to use... so don't you dare let him inside your head, or else it's already over.
Honestly, Lucario seems like the better characater on the whole, but in this specific matchup... I don't see any specific advanatages lucario has.

 

[Lawn]

Would it be a good or bad choice to start posting up threads in other character's subforums regarding the matchups? It'd give us a further insight about the opponent, and what the opponent fears or how they react when playing against Lucario. On the downside we might get inaccurate information from players that may be inexperienced with their own character. Is it worth going into further analysis on the match?

I personally think it would be interesting to get some non-Lukey perspective in here. I don't think it would be that hard to identify scrubby info from experienced info. And more likely than not, an intelligent person would be more willing to donate info.

 

[dguy6789]

The more input, the better. Just be careful and filter out the silliness that is bound to show up sooner or later.

 

[Ark22]

First, Link is a very, very technical character. Your opponent's tech skilll really makes a difference in whether the match will be a piece of cake or whether it will be a tough fight. To understand Link, you need to know his tricks. I would suggest everyone watch the Art of Link to get a sense of what you are going up against. http://youtube.com/watch?v=V0u3sUOShcI

-Behavior of Character

Once again, Link is a very technical character. His arrow cancel immensely speeds up his projectiles. If your opponent doesn't use this, Link's projectiles are pretty easy to punish. If they do use arrow cancels, you have to be a bit quicker on your feet.

That brings up Link's second advantage: zoning
A good link will use his projectiles to zone off certain areas of the map. For instance, he can throw a bomb upwards, short hop a boomerang, then shoot a canceled arrow forwards to attack every sector of the map that you could possibly approach him from. That puts pressure on you to block or roll, which he can then punish.

A good link will spam Zair to compete with your aerials. It is quick, has good priority, and combos into other attacks like his dash attack and DAC. This will be a good Link's bread and butter against Lucario's aerials along with his projectiles.

Another thing that a very good Link can do is to gimp Lucario's recovery. Link's tether shot is one of the few attacks that can out-prioritize extremespeed when you are both trying to grab the edge.

-Fundamental Moves

We've covered this pretty well.

-How to Win

Like everyone has said, use your aerials to keep constant pressure on Link. Gimp his recovery with a fair or dair over the edge. If the Link player gets in the habit of using Zair against your aerials, throw in a charged aura sphere to punish him for thinking he can compete with Lucario in the air.

Keep the pressure on Link. Don't let him start zoning off parts of the map, or he will cut off your approaches.

-Recommended Stages

Frigate Orpheon is a very good stage for Lucario against Link. It doesn't have many edges that he can tether onto, it has a high ceiling, it isn't very big so Link can't fight at his optimum distance.

Rainbow Cruise wreaks havoc on Link's recovery and projectiles.

Smashville is too small for Link. He doesn't have enough space here to use his projectiles.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

^ Yeah, I did a spelling mistake on that post. Everything I mentioned was in this thread, but not EVERYWHERE, like we're used to on the Lucario boards. Sorry.

No harm, no foul. Don't worry about it!

If you feel anything should be changed to balance it further, then let me know. I did feel at first that Wolf and TL are important matchups and should be discussed, but after looking at the chart, I decided to leave them towards the end. The lineup felt like it gave off a pretty good vibe, but if there's anything you want to reconsider, then let me know.

Would it be a good or bad choice to start posting up threads in other character's subforums regarding the matchups? It'd give us a further insight about the opponent, and what the opponent fears or how they react when playing against Lucario. On the downside we might get inaccurate information from players that may be inexperienced with their own character. Is it worth going into further analysis on the match?

The chart looks good! Thanks!

About asking other boards for input, I'm fine with it. Like Lawn said, it shouldn't be too difficult to weed out the n00bs. If anyone wants to go ask the other boards for each week, they have my permission.


-------------


Okay! Updated a lot. I think Link is pretty much a wrap. If there is anything I missed or anything you think is wrong, now would be the time to say so.


I'm thinking the match-up is 70:30 in Lucario's favor. What do you guys think?

 

[Browny]

does it matter... just make it green

 

[Timbers]

Link has a better spacing game than you do, and has a ton of plausable killmoves. You won't be living too long against him, and if played right he can make a very difficult wall to get through. He's really weak off of the stage though. I'd put it 60:40 in Luc's favor, but it's entirely up to you.

 

[JDGreat]

I'd agree with 60:40. Dad plays Link. Uses the arrows a lot but when I manage a FCAS to bust through them and get in close, Lucky's got the advantage.

I think you've already discussed how his UpB recovery can be stopped and spiked by Lucky's DAir cause of Lucky having higher priority.

Yeah, 60:40

So it's Samus next? I'll try to add to the discussion this time.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

60:40 sounds good.


So it's Wednesday! This week, we'll be discussing Samus.

Have fun!

 

[Timbers]

Noticed the chart wasn't updated, so I wasn't sure if you wanted me to update it or not <.<

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/mootmootmoot/LucarioMatchupChart-1copy-3.png

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Hmmm...Samus...

Well, Samus has a VERY annoying zair like Link's, except I find it more annoying because Samus is more floaty than Link and that grapple goes a LOOOOONG way. Not sure on priority of your AS or FCAS, but I'm pretty sure that they completely cancel it out. However, your opponent can easily dodge these if you don't time them well enough.

Moveset:

Samus will use her stupid zair to approach, but in my own experience mainly as a method of retreat, and it works very well. Her missiles are very annoying, and if your opponent is in the least bit intelligent they'll use her homing missile rather than the smash-B missile. Those are hard to cut through, and have pretty good priority. Her defensive game is great. On offense though...she's not so great.

How to win/strategy: Don't play so defensively: Samus will win. She has a much better defensive-or at least a better camping-game than you. Just be on the lookout for any openings. You need to stay on her butt so she can't use her missiles and especially her zair. Spacing is absolutely crucial to this match-up. The largest advantage Lucario has, I think, is that she has very few approach options on us. Woot! Usually, a Samus will use their dash attack to approach you after spamming missiles and zair, so be weary of that, and be ready to punish it. It's generally followed by the ftilt or the dsmash, so watch out for those two moves. Using DT isn't such a good idea, because her moves are pretty quick. Still usable, but very situational. Your ftilt will be very useful. Also, crawling underneath her zair and using a dtilt seems to be very effective if you time it right. If not, then she lands and punishes you. Her recovery is pretty good, so don't try to chase her, unless she's bomb jumping and you think you can hit her in the small frames of lag that that move has. Just try to maintain a middle distance from her, but not too far away or you risk projectile and zair spammage.
I'm sure there's more, but that's all I can think of right now.

Recommended Counterpicks:

Green Greens: It's small, and the blastzones are small. You can finish her quickly. Plus her recovery is pointless and totally wasted on this stage. The blocks can help you avoid her missiles too. If you don't stay on her though, she'll just camp out on one of the platforms.

Halberd: This stage is small. Generally NOT a good thing for us, but Samus has very few vertical kill moves that can finish at very low percentages. Watch out for the dsmash though...anyways, the sides are kinda smallish too, but we have good horizontal knockback resistance, so it'll be harder for them to kill us with their good kill moves too. Even the utilt can kill her at decently low percentages off the top of the low, low, low, LOW ceiling. The fsmash is still uber-powerful. At highish percentages for you and anywhere from 85%+ for her try using a FP, it'll kill them every time, right off the top. I can get an exact % later.

I would say that the match-up is...hmmm, not sure. I'm gonna have to go with it being 65:35 in Lucario's favor. It might even be equal, but I doubt it. She's very light, so our moves kill her pretty easily. She can camp, but we have LOTS of options to deal with it. She doesn't have all that many approach options either, which is her Achilles heel. Lucario has lots of approach options. Anyways, just my two cents worth there. Except for the match-up overall, as I'm COMPLETELY unsure what that should be. Even or 65:35...or maybe even 70:30. Yea...70:30. I don't know why I didn't put that up earlier, because that was my original thought, but I didn't want to be too biased towards Luc, heh!

 

[JDGreat]

Few Extra Notes for Suited Samus.

Can be FPCG'd up until around 70% with Lucario at 0%

Can be KO'd w/fully charged FSmash in Final Destination's centre at around 150%. Lucario at 0%

Fully charged Aura Sphere w/0% Lucario CANNOT cut through her fully charged B Blast. In fact, Samus' fully charged blast eats the Aura Sphere and keeps on going.

And my favourite bit of info that I found out. UpSmash cuts through her DownB bombs when she is in the air. From there, we get quite a bit of damage and a safe dodge roll or even dash can get you out of the bomb's range. easy damage if she goes for a SH Bomb

 

[dguy6789]

I am only going to briefly post on the subject for now, but will post more later when I am feeling less lazy. Seeing as how the best Samus in the country is a good friend of mine(and thus we play reasonably often), I do feel I am more than qualified to speak of this matchup with some pretty heavy weight.

Lucario beats out Samus in the air and ground for the most part. Zair is a nice move, but it isn't anything that is spectacularly hard to avoid. Air dodge works just fine, or just approach from high up. Crawling works unless they are good at using zair low to the ground.(Any reasonable Samus should be able to though)

The match is a bit more complex than I am speaking of here, but the main things to understand are that you generally beat out Samus in close combat and Samus has a hard time getting the KO. The match is 60/40 or 70/30 in Lucario's favor.

Like I said, I'll probably touch up on more detailed stuff later, but that's it for now.

 

[Timbers]

-Fundamental moves

None of her moves really stand out. You'll see about everything at least once in a match. Expect a lot of zair, missiles into chargeshot, jab->dtilt/dsmash, double missiles into fair/dash attack/whatever.

-Approach

Samus will approach with missiles into dash attack, zair into dash attack, zair into grab, missiles into fair, zair into zair into(...) Followups include ftilt, dsmash, and screw (uB)

-Defense

OOS you'll be seeing Screw, dsmash and jabs. Will rarely ever grab you due to long startup and afterlag of grapple.

-Recovery
It's good. You're not going to gimp her, but you can add some damage on. She's vulnerable during bombjumps. Use this to bair or aurasphere at will. Just don't get under her. Her spike is too good.

-Killmoves
Dtilt, bair, chargeshot. Has a very nice spike as well. None of these are going to kill you very early on. You should live till a good 140% each stock. She has a great edgeguard game, and staying on the ledge is dangerous. Her spike is fast, and her aerial DI is great. You will find yourself dying to bair and chargeshot the most, I'd say. Both of these moves won't kill you until 130-140% from middle of FD, but these two moves are great for edgeguarding. It'd be wise to not try and camp her if she has a full charged shot. You'll get murdered in afterlag for it.

-Stages

Keep Samus off Battlefield. I know it was mentioned earlier as a good stage to take Samus to, but no. She can easily combo the hell out of you on this stage with uair, fair, screw, usmash, and zair.

--

I went ahead and posted the topic on Samus boards, by the way.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4869457#post4869457

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Hmmm...I guess I'll edit my post and take Battlefield out then, if you think it's a bad stage. None of my friends really play that much Samus, so I've got some experience but not as much as others might.

 

[Timbers]

Heh. I dunno about Green greens, so I won't say anything. Theoretically speaking though it sounds pretty bad for Luc. Low ceiling and very enclosed. Makes death earlier than usual, and a ton of open gaps inbetween the stage that makes spiking more likely. I don't play on the stage enough to give it a full analysis, so if you're confident in what you say then I'll support it.

 

[mr_kennedy44]

Its been said. Expect lots of z-air as an approach for Samus. Samus has a better camping game than Lucario due to missiles, and the charge shot. This is one of those match-ups where you have to be the one on offense.

Samus doesn't have a lot of kills moves worth noting. D-tilt, charge shot, b-air and d-air spike are pretty much it. She was a hard time killing off the top so that's good for Lucario's below average (I think) vertical resistance.

She is hard to gimp due to her good recovery.

My favourite stage to CP her is Lylat Cruise. The tilting disrupts her projectile game so she is forced to approach. The tilting also can gimp her recovery.

She's not a terrible match-up. I'd put it at 70-30 Lucario's favour or 65-35 to Lucario.

 

[indianunit]

My brother plays a mean samus and me playing quite well with Lucario I guess I can probably help here (at least with like one thing anyway)

In terms of camping....not against samus. It's a good idea to just roll to her, shield her attack and then retaliate with grab or ball or whatever.

In terms of air game, IMO their about equal (maybe just maybe lucario beats samus because of disjointed hitboxes and high priority moves but samus' aerials are still powerful)

Thats about all I can think of. Whenever I play my brother he always spams his missiles and charge shot so I just roll dodge to him and then punish.

 

[tedward2000]

(cracks fingers)

Ah samus, the infamous Bounty Hunter. She, (She?!?! I thought samus was a guy!) saves planets, shoots bad guys, and in a days time.

Except bring her back to gravity, and she has space lag.
Everything is slow, dashing, rolling, jumping.
She might not be the fastest of characters, but samus can pack a punch.

That cannon arm of hers is like a futuristic Swiss army knife. Fires emergy balls, rockets, personal battering ram, throws a grapple rope that will snag and cause damage, spits out fire, makes toast, changes lightbulbs...you get the picture.

One of her best aspects is in her variety. She can camp and fire lots of distance shots, or get up close, ram you with her massively protected shoulder and then follow up with a screw attack. Or tilt and trip you. Its all in the eye of the beholder.

The problem is, that Samus is slow. Lucario is faster, out ranges her, combos quicker.
Putting the formidable Samus, at a disadvantage vs. Lucario.
-t2