Spyda
Smash Journeyman
also... we do get a prize for 1st place
we get a trophy...
i called and asked
we get a trophy...
i called and asked
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Lubbock Tournament Thread
- Thread starter felix45
- Start date
- Status
Spyda
Smash Journeyman
Felix.... and anyone else who does not even want to give Smashballs a chance or anything at all...
please read
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=149647
Panda has some good points
while remember I am not saying we should make Sb the tourny standard... but we should at least have a fun smashfest tourny with it on... I think we should at least give it a try before shutting it down... otherwise we will be playing melee again with new chars and different physics... I think the Sb will give us a new twist...
please read
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=149647
Panda has some good points
while remember I am not saying we should make Sb the tourny standard... but we should at least have a fun smashfest tourny with it on... I think we should at least give it a try before shutting it down... otherwise we will be playing melee again with new chars and different physics... I think the Sb will give us a new twist...
felix45
Smash Lord
im fine with smashballs for fun. I dont think they should be used in tourneys though.
if you want I can write out a long explanation on why.
if you want I can write out a long explanation on why.
samusedaway
Smash Journeyman
I would like to see that
I like that they use the smashball in tournaments, and for good reasons. It adds more fun to the game, it's super cool, and without it you wouldn't be able to even play ZZS. Smashballs IMO should continue to be used in tournaments.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=u7Gbj8zEPRw Without smashballs you wouldn't be able to end matches in cool ways like that either.
EDIT: So anyways, I tricked Hastings into selling me Brawl today... I am eating, but once I am done I am going to go play it... Too bad it comes out in only 2 days..
http://youtube.com/watch?v=u7Gbj8zEPRw Without smashballs you wouldn't be able to end matches in cool ways like that either.
EDIT: So anyways, I tricked Hastings into selling me Brawl today... I am eating, but once I am done I am going to go play it... Too bad it comes out in only 2 days..
samusedaway
Smash Journeyman
uhhh you can use ZSS without smash balls. you just hold shield at the selection screen or push up down up taunts during battle
Vitamin X
Smash Journeyman
From what I've heard some of the Final Smashes are instant kills; it would very much suck to lose by one stock because a Smash ball appeared right in front of your opponent's Smash or something. Plus there are other Final Smashes that are garbage, so that would provide another source of imbalance.
However, I would tolerate Smash balls in tournaments if:
-Their appearance and the appearance of all other items was set to very low (like very low setting for Melee), so as not to dominate the game.
-Each player had at least six stocks so that an instant death via Final Smash wouldn't be an automatic game loss.
On a side note, there are certain items that should never, ever be in tournaments IMO:
-Mushrooms (Touch item, can appear on a player)
-Poison Mushrooms (Same thing)
-Starmen (Same, plus invincibility; most broken item in any Smash game.)
-Ray gun (Broken edgeguard, imagine Jigglypuff with this)
-Recovery items (A free stock reward for getting lucky, frequently a nigh automatic game win in close/semi-close matches)
-Contact explosives (Can appear in front of a player's attack and cost them a stock. Frequently a game loss in otherwise close matches.)
Games with broken items make non-fast characters even less playable than they already are. Friendlies are for fun (supposedly), tournaments are for pride.
However, I would tolerate Smash balls in tournaments if:
-Their appearance and the appearance of all other items was set to very low (like very low setting for Melee), so as not to dominate the game.
-Each player had at least six stocks so that an instant death via Final Smash wouldn't be an automatic game loss.
On a side note, there are certain items that should never, ever be in tournaments IMO:
-Mushrooms (Touch item, can appear on a player)
-Poison Mushrooms (Same thing)
-Starmen (Same, plus invincibility; most broken item in any Smash game.)
-Ray gun (Broken edgeguard, imagine Jigglypuff with this)
-Recovery items (A free stock reward for getting lucky, frequently a nigh automatic game win in close/semi-close matches)
-Contact explosives (Can appear in front of a player's attack and cost them a stock. Frequently a game loss in otherwise close matches.)
Games with broken items make non-fast characters even less playable than they already are. Friendlies are for fun (supposedly), tournaments are for pride.
Holy ****, lots of good talk. I just wanted to say something random, and I'm stilling going to do it...
I'm eating cereal sticks.
WTF are cereal sticks?
http://www.theimpulsivebuy.com/images/frootloopsstraws.jpg
I didn't know until I found them in my fridge like 25 seconds ago.
Back to boring seriousness...
BOBA you got Brawl already? Bad ***... How did you trick them into selling it to you today?
EDIT: Hey, the announcer in that video wasn't too bad, but he got weirder after the match.
I'm eating cereal sticks.
WTF are cereal sticks?
http://www.theimpulsivebuy.com/images/frootloopsstraws.jpg
I didn't know until I found them in my fridge like 25 seconds ago.
Back to boring seriousness...
BOBA you got Brawl already? Bad ***... How did you trick them into selling it to you today?
EDIT: Hey, the announcer in that video wasn't too bad, but he got weirder after the match.
Spyda
Smash Journeyman
I want to see Felix's counter-argument to why SB should be banned totally from trounys without even giving it a shot... we do not even have a copy of the game yet, so I think it is quite rash that we ban something that we do not know first hand. It is like making a Tier list this early in the game without ever touching it.
Also in response to Adam's post.
Yes, some FS is better than others, but they all have a use. Two that come to mind are, DK and Peach. While just looking at them in game they looked horrible, but then as I kept watching different videos, I saw Dk use his to edgegaurd on BF. Fox was not able to get back. If you look at the hit box range on his FS its QUITE LARGE it covers almost 3 whole bodies of himself over him. Peach worked in the same way. I saw sometime trying to recover and when they saw them get close to the edge they just slept and fell to their death.
Now as a counter-argument to my own statement, yes they are almost instant KO potential, BUT you do have to realize you have to have a time and a place to use them, you can lose them by being hit and you still have to try to decide whether to attack your opponent as his reaches for the ball or attack the ball itself. Some FS are harder to hit than others. It isn't always a instant KO. If some idiot just randomly hit b to fire off samus's shot. I can just run onto a platform or invici frame on the ledge. There are different counters to each, we just haven't found them all yet.
If you really wish to ban something before trying it out, that is not because you have 'logical' reasoning behind anything, it seems that you would be afraid of change or even learning a new metagame as a whole. Our own ignorance will hinder us from playing the game to its utmost full experience.
Also in response to Adam's post.
Yes, some FS is better than others, but they all have a use. Two that come to mind are, DK and Peach. While just looking at them in game they looked horrible, but then as I kept watching different videos, I saw Dk use his to edgegaurd on BF. Fox was not able to get back. If you look at the hit box range on his FS its QUITE LARGE it covers almost 3 whole bodies of himself over him. Peach worked in the same way. I saw sometime trying to recover and when they saw them get close to the edge they just slept and fell to their death.
Now as a counter-argument to my own statement, yes they are almost instant KO potential, BUT you do have to realize you have to have a time and a place to use them, you can lose them by being hit and you still have to try to decide whether to attack your opponent as his reaches for the ball or attack the ball itself. Some FS are harder to hit than others. It isn't always a instant KO. If some idiot just randomly hit b to fire off samus's shot. I can just run onto a platform or invici frame on the ledge. There are different counters to each, we just haven't found them all yet.
If you really wish to ban something before trying it out, that is not because you have 'logical' reasoning behind anything, it seems that you would be afraid of change or even learning a new metagame as a whole. Our own ignorance will hinder us from playing the game to its utmost full experience.
felix45
Smash Lord
why smashballs shouldn't be allowed
1. they are luck based. this is pretty simple. spawn time/point of the smashball, like all items, is luck based and can favor 1 player over the other, therefore making it no longer an even playing field to measure player skill. it is now just who has better luck with items on.
2. they aren't punishable. they are moves, depending on character, can kill at low percentages and aren't able to be hit out of or blocked even. they are risk free supers that can potentially kill your opponent.
3. the input is the push of 1 button. at least in other fighting games, you have to do an input that is somewhat difficult.
4. combos into final smashes. really they dont even have to be combos, they just have to give the opponent hitstun then you pull off the final smash when they are trying to land. so basically you have to do any attack then hit b when the lag from the attack ends. keep in mind final smashes potentially kill every time you use them.
5. pity final smashes. this is just some major bs really. you'd be dumb to think this is balanced. if you want me to go back and argue against this I'd be glad to, rather not type out why though.
6. some final smashes are broken, whereas others are underpowered. this means anytime you play a game with final smashes, you are always going to want to choose a character with a good final smash. I honestly think that it makes some fast characters broken, with the unbeatable strategy of run away until a final smash comes up, then get it and use it. that is something you would have to test, but I'm almost positive that people of lesser skill than their opponent could do this and win more than likely with this broken strategy.
7. character speed means everything. much like using items in melee, you want a fast character so you can get to the items faster than your opponent. any game where final smashes are on, there will be a severe disadvantage for bowser in a matchup against fox with the final smashes on. fox will always be able to get to the final smash before it breaks, but I'm sure you couldn't say that about bowser.
8. there is nothing consistent about the smash ball. again to the luck based bit. you can't tell when it is going to break, where it is going, or where it will spawn. so again getting the smash ball will be all dependent on these factors of luck, which does not measure the skill of one player vs the other.
1. they are luck based. this is pretty simple. spawn time/point of the smashball, like all items, is luck based and can favor 1 player over the other, therefore making it no longer an even playing field to measure player skill. it is now just who has better luck with items on.
2. they aren't punishable. they are moves, depending on character, can kill at low percentages and aren't able to be hit out of or blocked even. they are risk free supers that can potentially kill your opponent.
3. the input is the push of 1 button. at least in other fighting games, you have to do an input that is somewhat difficult.
4. combos into final smashes. really they dont even have to be combos, they just have to give the opponent hitstun then you pull off the final smash when they are trying to land. so basically you have to do any attack then hit b when the lag from the attack ends. keep in mind final smashes potentially kill every time you use them.
5. pity final smashes. this is just some major bs really. you'd be dumb to think this is balanced. if you want me to go back and argue against this I'd be glad to, rather not type out why though.
6. some final smashes are broken, whereas others are underpowered. this means anytime you play a game with final smashes, you are always going to want to choose a character with a good final smash. I honestly think that it makes some fast characters broken, with the unbeatable strategy of run away until a final smash comes up, then get it and use it. that is something you would have to test, but I'm almost positive that people of lesser skill than their opponent could do this and win more than likely with this broken strategy.
7. character speed means everything. much like using items in melee, you want a fast character so you can get to the items faster than your opponent. any game where final smashes are on, there will be a severe disadvantage for bowser in a matchup against fox with the final smashes on. fox will always be able to get to the final smash before it breaks, but I'm sure you couldn't say that about bowser.
8. there is nothing consistent about the smash ball. again to the luck based bit. you can't tell when it is going to break, where it is going, or where it will spawn. so again getting the smash ball will be all dependent on these factors of luck, which does not measure the skill of one player vs the other.
Yum_Cha
Smash Apprentice
What the heck is ZSS?? They put the Final Smashes in as part of the game, they designed the game that way, may as well incorporate it. As for items, either all on or all off is my stance on it.
Vitamin X
Smash Journeyman
Your argument that we shouldn't judge something before trying it is valid, Steven. Valid enough to where I'd be willing to try it for a while before passing judgment. And I do realize that attacking your opponent as he goes for the Smash ball instead of going for the Smash ball itself is a viable strategy that could SOMEWHAT balance things out; it's something I often did with recovery items back when I played with items on.
However, were I to decide right now, it would be against allowing them in tournaments, citing reasons 1, 6, 7, and 8 from Felix's argument.
However, were I to decide right now, it would be against allowing them in tournaments, citing reasons 1, 6, 7, and 8 from Felix's argument.
Zero Suit Samus
Spyda
Smash Journeyman
without even resorting to my huge essay before I even bother acknowledging the luck base theme and idea...
Random tripping
if you don't like luck based ideas, don't play brawl... you randomly trip and can eat a smash attack... If you want I can find video proof, also... to you point of inputting one button? MvC 2... you hit the button on the right side of the joystick and you can do a mega super special if you wanted to.
Also, you make it seems as if a fast character like fox can easily get to the ball and break it before a Bowser can do anything... look at the videos... if they do a stronger attack.. it flies almost half way across the screen from them... meaning the Bowser player that is so desperately slow is right next to it now.... it will take a mind game presence to determine how you want to attack the ball and if your opponent will smash it or simply light hit it and hope you smash it and you counter back with another light hit for the ball... It is a lot more strategy than your standard PICK UP AND USE.
Random tripping
if you don't like luck based ideas, don't play brawl... you randomly trip and can eat a smash attack... If you want I can find video proof, also... to you point of inputting one button? MvC 2... you hit the button on the right side of the joystick and you can do a mega super special if you wanted to.
Also, you make it seems as if a fast character like fox can easily get to the ball and break it before a Bowser can do anything... look at the videos... if they do a stronger attack.. it flies almost half way across the screen from them... meaning the Bowser player that is so desperately slow is right next to it now.... it will take a mind game presence to determine how you want to attack the ball and if your opponent will smash it or simply light hit it and hope you smash it and you counter back with another light hit for the ball... It is a lot more strategy than your standard PICK UP AND USE.
felix45
Smash Lord
hey boba you want to come up and play brawl? plx? we can give you money or something 
Spyda
Smash Journeyman
yeah... hastings said they had six... but they couldnt find it... then we came back later then they said they couldnt sell it to us... play plox? we give you monies
How much money? It's coming out tomorrow night really anyways though. And btw, smashballs are not that gay, they can be hard to get on people and stuff. Once I was Bowser and Serg was metaknight and I must've gotten the smashball like 3 or 4 times during that match, and before I could even press B he would knock it out of me and go get it for himself, THAT was gay, but usually it is not too bad.
@Ryan: Tell you the story in an email or somethin, if you guys would've come early this morning you could have bought a copy because they put them out to buy for everyone after I convinced them it was supposed to come out on the 5th, which was the shipping date or something in their computers. But then they realised their mistake and put them in the back before anyone else besides me got a copy. Some girl got written up for the whole incident too... Kinda sad really.
Oh and is the prize for one of those GS tournaments tomorrow night just a trophy.. is that all?
@Ryan: Tell you the story in an email or somethin, if you guys would've come early this morning you could have bought a copy because they put them out to buy for everyone after I convinced them it was supposed to come out on the 5th, which was the shipping date or something in their computers. But then they realised their mistake and put them in the back before anyone else besides me got a copy. Some girl got written up for the whole incident too... Kinda sad really.
Oh and is the prize for one of those GS tournaments tomorrow night just a trophy.. is that all?
Spyda
Smash Journeyman
yeah it is... a wrestling trophy for local... karate trophy for districts....
Vitamin X
Smash Journeyman
This is a pointless post since the game's already out and they didn't do it this way, but here's how I think they should have done Final Smashes:
No Smash balls involved. I think each character should have four Final smashed (B, Up B, Down B, Side B) unlocked as follows:
-B Final Smash: Get the All Variations bonus. (Score hits with your entire moveset.)
-Side B Final Smash: Get the Wimpy KO bonus (KO with a jab.)
-Up B Final Smash: Get the Double KO bonus on teams (Must be both opponents, can't be an opponent and a teammate.)
-Down B Final Smash: Sustain the Perfect Aim bonus for two minutes (no failed attacks, at least 8 attack attempts per minute.)
This would make Final Smashes harder to obtain, make them obtainable without items, and make getting them more skill-based. Plus, it would make those bonuses you get at the end of the match actually matter, as well as rewarding some cool moves.
P.S. The Final Smash is used with the B button, right?
No Smash balls involved. I think each character should have four Final smashed (B, Up B, Down B, Side B) unlocked as follows:
-B Final Smash: Get the All Variations bonus. (Score hits with your entire moveset.)
-Side B Final Smash: Get the Wimpy KO bonus (KO with a jab.)
-Up B Final Smash: Get the Double KO bonus on teams (Must be both opponents, can't be an opponent and a teammate.)
-Down B Final Smash: Sustain the Perfect Aim bonus for two minutes (no failed attacks, at least 8 attack attempts per minute.)
This would make Final Smashes harder to obtain, make them obtainable without items, and make getting them more skill-based. Plus, it would make those bonuses you get at the end of the match actually matter, as well as rewarding some cool moves.
P.S. The Final Smash is used with the B button, right?
Cloak and Dagger
Smash Journeyman
brawl ***s, anyone wanna play melee?
Spyda
Smash Journeyman
yeah it is used with the b button... and jake
ill come over and play some melee with you on your gamecube
ill come over and play some melee with you on your gamecube
How... Stupid... A brawl tourney will come up in Plainview within a month I bet... It'll be more worth it.
Spyda
Smash Journeyman
Too bad no one cares about Plainview
Yum_Cha
Smash Apprentice
Invite me too since I have one too. Really though, I have someone's Gamecube and I need to take the trash out soon. FMatt I pretty sure it's yours, get this Nintendo crap out of my room.
Spyda
Smash Journeyman
It might be mine... ;D
felix45
Smash Lord
40 minutes to tourney
Too bad no one cares about YOUR FACE!!! ...I know I don't!!! No but seriously, there will probably be a prize of 50$ In a gift card for first... $30 for second and $10 for third, but since you say that I aint gonna tell you about it! AIGHT!?!?!
....Nah, I agree though Plainview sucks...
Yum_Cha
Smash Apprentice
Spyda rocks me in Brawl
Vitamin X
Smash Journeyman
You should be glad you didn't waste your time going to this "tournament." It was the biggest BS tournament that ever disgraced the plane of existence. Yes, I admit that my getting 1-and-outed had something to do with it, but the tournament really was horrible. And I'll refrain from complaining about the actual game rules. Here's what sucked;
-The said the start time was "between 9:30 and 10" so i arrived at 9:25. The tournament started around 10:10. That's 45 minutes of waiting outside, hands getting cold, sickness creeping up on you and everything.
-The tournament was held outside. In 40 degree weather. They literally dragged two demo setups out there.
-The seeding was awful. Not for me, but...Felix vs Andrew, first round. Can't really blame them for that one though, as nobody in Lubbock has a big name in Smash.
-They forced you to use a Nunchuck and Wii-mote, with no prior exposure. How are you supposed to learn controls in one minute of a real match, huh? That effectively made button-mashing the bast strategy.
Oh, and on a side note, Wario FTW. (I was foolish enough not to use Wario in tournament, but rather his goody-goody counterpart.)
Spyda
Smash Journeyman
I got second at the smash tourny... =( and also.... felix doesnt like brawl! =(
Felix doesn't like Brawl? Brawl is awesome. Granted, they took out everything you did from Melee. But there is a whole different amount of strategy. The creator said that this is how they intended Melee to be, actually.
They took out everything from Melee, that made everyone experts, experts. Except just plain knowing how to be safe and punish everything the best you can.
Who got first at the tournament? How could none of the competitive smashers in Lubbock get first. I'm ashamed of you guys!
They took out everything from Melee, that made everyone experts, experts. Except just plain knowing how to be safe and punish everything the best you can.
Who got first at the tournament? How could none of the competitive smashers in Lubbock get first. I'm ashamed of you guys!
Yum_Cha
Smash Apprentice
Fox doesn't have any super technical BS like Melee, and shine isn't crazy good
. The game is alright, FS are cool, especially when they kill yourself but it's better then that fish eating you.Seriously though, my roommates aren't too happy about that whole get together, we woke up Thomas and I Jon told me today that someone split beer on the living room Wii. Plus Justin didn't want me to play on his Wii is what Jon also said, so he deleted the Brawl stuff already.
Edit: I still have someone's silver GC and a white and black TTU hat.
Spyda
Smash Journeyman
some frat guy won at the GS tourny.. =(((((((
felix is starting to grow on to the game... he is liking fox... go figure... =P
also.... someone spilled beer? jeez.... did jon not wake up? only thomas? oh wells.. i guess no more smash fest at andrew
felix is starting to grow on to the game... he is liking fox... go figure... =P
also.... someone spilled beer? jeez.... did jon not wake up? only thomas? oh wells.. i guess no more smash fest at andrew
Vitamin X
Smash Journeyman
Well, I've made up my sick, twisted little mind concerning Brawl. I plan to get a copy when I get some more money; I don't have enough right now to where I'm willing to burn 50 on a video game. My impression is that it's very much worth playing, even if it isn't as good a competitive game as Melee.
Really, it's not the speed of the game that would bother me from a competitive standpoint. What would bother me, is that [at this point in time] there are fewer techniques available at the player's disposal. Which means fewer options for approaches, defenses, edgeguards, etc. Which, in turn, means fewer playable strategies, as of the moment. It's entirely possible that I could be wrong about all that within a year's time, though.
I don't expect to get any more competitive in Brawl than I was in Melee, all said and done.
Really, it's not the speed of the game that would bother me from a competitive standpoint. What would bother me, is that [at this point in time] there are fewer techniques available at the player's disposal. Which means fewer options for approaches, defenses, edgeguards, etc. Which, in turn, means fewer playable strategies, as of the moment. It's entirely possible that I could be wrong about all that within a year's time, though.
I don't expect to get any more competitive in Brawl than I was in Melee, all said and done.
I was going to have a LAN party next Saturday, but I'm turning it into a Brawl party if you guys wanna come...
Oh and about Brawl, there's a difference between keeping the same concepts and making them easier to do (which is what I thought they were doing) and taking out entire concepts (which is what they are actually doing). No crouch cancelling? No running f-smash? I guess it will be fun that we have to space just like any other non skilled play, with small steps, dashed, and rolls... Still lovin' it, though, I just miss the old captain falcon, that's all...
He's neutered.
Oh and about Brawl, there's a difference between keeping the same concepts and making them easier to do (which is what I thought they were doing) and taking out entire concepts (which is what they are actually doing). No crouch cancelling? No running f-smash? I guess it will be fun that we have to space just like any other non skilled play, with small steps, dashed, and rolls... Still lovin' it, though, I just miss the old captain falcon, that's all...
He's neutered.
Spyda
Smash Journeyman
I think I will try to hold a huge tourny soon after spring break... some cash prizes that I will take out of my own pockets... but I will also charge entry fee, but maybe the 1st place will be 25-50 dollars depending on how I feel and how many people show up or are interested... since we cant get on Techannounce we will have to have a huge word of mouth spreading... let me know if people are interested... I am pretty sure felix will help me run it too
felix45
Smash Lord
@andrew - wow that sucks. does the wii still work?
just FYI guys I'm starting to like brawl now, I just had to get used to it. that and I really dont like FFAs....like at all. all it took was a little bit of training mode w/ metaknight and I improved a ton. I also learned a few movement techniques
just FYI guys I'm starting to like brawl now, I just had to get used to it. that and I really dont like FFAs....like at all. all it took was a little bit of training mode w/ metaknight and I improved a ton. I also learned a few movement techniques
- Status