Lost Mafia - Who won? - The viewing audience of course

[Dooms]

chaco taco.

My childhood...

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I didn't really like his D1 voting pattern at all. The biggest tip-off was this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13826832&postcount=579

Mechanical scumhunting. He quickly voted Gorf for implied similar actions to Circus but that overlooks the differences in Circus' reason and Gorf's reason. It also overlooks the fact that Gorf was at least trying to do work with his Auspher vote, the actual reasoning behind it, and the fact that Gorf's distaste for AtE goes in line with his meta. That, in my eyes, is scummy.

And immediately after he votes him, Gorf defends himself, and he quickly backs off here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13826923&postcount=584

Seems more like backpedaling once he was called out. He had his eyes on Gorf for awhile, as he had FoSed both Gorf and Jerkus earlier.

His vote was parked on Red Ruy for 15 pages (as a policy/RVS vote), and he only really ever pushed Acrostic (not here, looked defensive in the early game), Jerkus (not here), Red Ruy (easy push imo), and Gorf (perceived similar actions to Jerkus).

A lot of his earlier posts were filled with questions, questions, and more questions, but I rarely remember him following up on any of them.

It's not a lot, but granted, I didn't really have a lot to work with. He's had brief spurts of inactivity mixed in with his play and it's hard to suspect questions. It's just, I can't see where the motives themselves are going. He didn't push the right people at all, when he even pushed in the first place. It's a whole lot of nothin' when it feels like there should be so much more.

I'm also down for an FF lynch and I'd like to wagon Kata as well.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

For those who don't understand, mechanical scumhunting is a particularly scummy action due to the fact that it's trying to frame others for similar actions to either consensus scummy players or flipped scum, taking advantage of potentially similar actions while ignoring the actual good qualities and input the player has provided.

Bad-to-average players won't really know or understand this but Chaco doesn't fall in that category.

 

[Asdioh]

^I'm convinced.

Asdioh used Morph!
WashedLaundry is now a double voter! This will continue for as long as he and Asdioh are both alive.

Vote: Chaco

@EE: so we had a claimed FBI calling him a SK, and (I realize you posted that before the mod clarified he was SK) you still think he would have done something sinister and game-winning after being left alive one extra Day phase? Bleh. I still think he could have been useful, haters gonna hate

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Asidoh, you should know where my opinion lies in leaving claimed indies alive.

 

[Asdioh]

I feel like that's a reference to
a game
not sure which one

Anyway it doesn't matter anymore.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I want a Chaco taco!

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Oh wait there's another page.

 

[Evil Eye]

acid dough cmon homie don't strawman me, must less after it matters. The point isn't that Gheb would have done something sinister and game-winning in one game phase, it's that he'd have done bad guy antitown things either by accident (through being manipulated by scum PRs) or on purpose in the long run. Or maybe even right away. Who knows. But it's immaterial now.

@Laundry: Man I feel you on that ****. But... I don't know. I saw some flashes of towniness in Chaco's game, on occasion. I feel like he might have just been inactive. However there are definite similarities to Hentai Mafia 2 Chaco. It's grody.

But, you say you're down with frozen. That's chill with me, because I am much more down with a dead frozenflame

Vote: frozenflame751

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Mehh... I don't agree with the Chaco is Mechanical scum hunting jazz. There have been quite a fair amount of good things that I don't remember exactly right now, but that I know happened. Imma need more on a chacoscum *shrug*... Course I only really read the top half in depth and then resorted to skimming but... Still.

 

[Chaco]

For those who don't understand, mechanical scumhunting is a particularly scummy action due to the fact that it's trying to frame others for similar actions to either consensus scummy players or flipped scum, taking advantage of potentially similar actions while ignoring the actual good qualities and input the player has provided.

Bad-to-average players won't really know or understand this but Chaco doesn't fall in that category.

Uhm, you're reading on to shallow of a level. I attacked Gorf on that so he would respond to me directly, so that I could better my read on him. It's a lot easier to discern allignment when you control the context in which you are reading. By calling out the similarities in Circus and Gorf, you get to further discern the intent and level he has when he posts a rebut. Something in which you either entirely skimmed over, or just did not pay attention too. I even plainly said it to Gord afterwards that I was okay with him based on his response. I can dig it up if needed to.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

So how's about that kataefi guy ._.?

Yea yea yea I'll get to convincing yall when I get my arse back from school...

Besides inactivity and defending the Gheb shiz, what really warrants an FF lynch? I mean there are people that are ACTUALLY scummy still alive.

 

[Evil Eye]

Yeah I am totally feelin' that reply. Like smooth miles davis and a glass of aged scotch.

Gorf, frozen is totally scummy. He's been riding the johns into the blue yonder, and yet going out of his way to speak about suspiciously current things. And like every one of his posts has some kind of beartrap that seems intent on getting someone to take an idea from him like a baton and run off with it to push somebody's lynch.

 

[Evil Eye]

God damn it am I seriously going to have to dig this **** up right now I HAVE AN EXAM TOMORROW

 

[Evil Eye]

But yeah basically every single time frozenflame expressed an opinion it was overly shallow and overly passive. Not helpful.

 

[Chaco]

I didn't really like his D1 voting pattern at all. The biggest tip-off was this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13826832&postcount=579

Mechanical scumhunting. He quickly voted Gorf for implied similar actions to Circus but that overlooks the differences in Circus' reason and Gorf's reason. It also overlooks the fact that Gorf was at least trying to do work with his Auspher vote, the actual reasoning behind it, and the fact that Gorf's distaste for AtE goes in line with his meta. That, in my eyes, is scummy.

And immediately after he votes him, Gorf defends himself, and he quickly backs off here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13826923&postcount=584

Seems more like backpedaling once he was called out. He had his eyes on Gorf for awhile, as he had FoSed both Gorf and Jerkus earlier.

His vote was parked on Red Ruy for 15 pages (as a policy/RVS vote), and he only really ever pushed Acrostic (not here, looked defensive in the early game), Jerkus (not here), Red Ruy (easy push imo), and Gorf (perceived similar actions to Jerkus).

A lot of his earlier posts were filled with questions, questions, and more questions, but I rarely remember him following up on any of them.

It's not a lot, but granted, I didn't really have a lot to work with. He's had brief spurts of inactivity mixed in with his play and it's hard to suspect questions. It's just, I can't see where the motives themselves are going. He didn't push the right people at all, when he even pushed in the first place. It's a whole lot of nothin' when it feels like there should be so much more.

First off, you're initial argument is under the assumption that I should know Gorf's meta. I haven't played with him much, if ever. So, my opinion with his hate for AtE doesn't flow that way. See, I didn't know that.

Continuing on, what you call as backpedaling, really is a way I scumhunt. It can be noted twice in this game. With Gorf and Mentos. Also, my eyes were set to Circus, not Gorf. I FoS'd both of them, because the attack on Auspher was poor and should not have been nearly drawn out that long. It was far too easy to discern that Auspher is just noob town, it all lines up with what I've seen before. It's a defense mechanism when you don't know how to respond to pressure ,which comes off extremely scummy. In NEWBIE games. A seasoned player shouldnt attack that.

Also, @bold, where is it your place to discern this? How do you know I was pushing in the wrong directions? My scumhunting is my scumhunting, and where I push or look is my choice. Unless you have outside inormation, which that could allude to, everyone is suspect.

More to come.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

God damn it am I seriously going to have to dig this **** up right now I HAVE AN EXAM TOMORROW

I promise this once if you make a wall of a post just for me I'll read it all mang

 

[Evil Eye]

Man, fine. But not now. We'll see if I make headway on my studying first.

Go look back at frozen's posts and get a look at their context. Part of it is that each one of them, individually, bugged me a little, but I washed it off. However looking back on his actions on N2, all of them, really starts to piece together a grimy mosaic.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Shiz yo its 1:30 on a school night. If you get that shiz up whenever I'll read that up and down...

TWICE.

AND READ BACK TO SEE IT IN CONTEXT. This is an offer one shan't refuse!

 

[Evil Eye]

you are such a mother****er

opening tabs, putting scumhunt music on loop

 

[Asdioh]

EE go to bed

or I might have to get a townread on you.

 

[Evil Eye]

First post is just the ol' confirmation post. Declares a V/LA and/or activity john until December 16th. Aight.

My officially declared V/LA is technically over, but I'm still finishing papers and other loose ends for the end of the semester.

Prod dodgin' n stuff. I've read like the first 8 pages (40ppp). I'll see y'all on the most recent page on Monday. Cheers.

Acceptable on its own, but note a few things:

-This was posted on December 18th. This being merely a prod dodge, what prevented him from posting this sooner? It's not like it's a significant commitment. Either way, that's a full week of absence before he can even be bothered to prod dodge.

-Read the first 8 pages of 40ppp? So he read... 320 posts? And had nothing to say? Not one observation?

-How much you wanna bet he doesn't show up on Monday? Monday being the day after, the 19th. Yeah.


Three days later...

I hate school.

No but seriously I have the worst college senioritus of all time.

I can see the light at the end of the tunnel though finally....

Anyway, haven't been able to read in depth enough to have solid reads or anything but one point I'd like to make is that even if Acro is scum with ineffectual hammers, he's fairly non-threatening from a day phase perspective. He personally cannot complete an alpha strike, so if we ever get in a situation where it's likely LYLO, he's alive, and is not voting after someone lays a vote down, we know at the very least he can't jump us.

Not that I think he's scum though, I'd find a legit scum priest to be a bit oddballish. Just my two cents.

Seeing as how votes are going a million different directions now that the acrostic question is settled, I'm not sure were to direct my focus. If people have suggestions though I'll do my best to follow up in a timely fashion.

Funny enough, he was taking this whole "being in college sucks" thing in a much easier stride when he made his confirmation post. You know, that being the post he made before receiving a role PM. Now, however, it's become an insurmountable obstacle and the only thing he is capable of talking about, I guess.

But let's dive into the meat of it:

-He's entirely nebulous about what he has read, this time around. He just says that he hasn't had time to read in depth enough to have solid reads. Alright, and? He's spending a good amount of this one meaty post just to justify his position with us. I see scum do this **** all the time. Oh man it sucks SO MUCH I have to be THIS inactive you guys, it's affecting me adversely in all kinds of WAYS for REASONS! Inactive people disappear, they don't keep a blog about it. Not usually anyway.

-Short of that we have... a bunch of speculation. Alright. Is it useful speculation? ...no. Acrostic can't alpha strike. And this means........ what. What does this mean? What can we do with this? He offers nothing. Just talks. Fluff fluff fluff. The next sentence really grates me though

Not that I think he's scum though, I'd find a legit scum priest to be a bit oddballish. Just my two cents.

Oh, alright. You don't think he's scum. You think his role being scum would be unlikely and weird. Alright. It's a good thing you didn't spend the only significant part of this post talking about speculation where he is scum. Then you'd have wasted our time! Our time, and your grandly minimal and precious time, I might add!

Oh. Oh, wait. No, he totally did that. What?

Seeing as how votes are going a million different directions now that the acrostic question is settled, I'm not sure were to direct my focus. If people have suggestions though I'll do my best to follow up in a timely fashion.

Tell me how to scumhunt guys I forgot.

What's that? I should have just actually read the thread and made my own damn opinions instead of asking for others to evaluate?

I dunno, nothing about the way frozen is playing suggests that he's seriously a townie trying to catch up. It feels infinitely more like his objective is to justify his position to the town and go about his business.

Plus, once again, just look at how much nothing that post accomplished.


One day later...

Not sure how any can have me lower than anyone else as top choice for lynch if inactivity is the criteria. Unless someone is literally being shown to be actively lurking and not just an inactive PoS like myself.

For what it's worth, regarding Glyph, IIRC in Cowboy Bebop mafia in the BR I replaced him and he was fairly non-committal/inactive in that game too. He was an indy there. Is his "aggressive inactivity" here similar to what people who were in Cowboy Bebop remember from that game? Could be something to look at.

As for Circus, not too sure how to takes his apologetic but at the same time not remorseful tone. Also the fact that he's basically given up but also didn't think just outright claiming at this point while deadline approaches was a good idea kind of surprises me. If you aren't going to replace and think you're going to die anyway, why not claim? Might as well give us more info to work with so we can make a better decision with what little time we have left. Def strange to me.

Also @ Ryker I won't be replacing out unless I'm forced to (which I don't plan on happening). My activity can and will only get better from here.

-Here is your first case of drastic oversimplification. Attention was being paid to Glyph and Jerkus in particular (townies? Possibly, especially if frozen flips scum!) for being inactive. Frozen swoops in to say something that's very on target for what we're talking about... except ... not.

It's very, very obvious that it's not JUST about being inactive with Jerkus and Glyph. People have been discussing very specific things about their interplay (or lack thereof), the entire time. Somehow, frozen is exactly caught up enough to comment on the current goings-on, but does so by boiling down the discussion into some insipid overgeneralization that barely resembles it. It just doesn't make sense, and it's not helpful.

-Here's a REALLY ****ty part. Here you have frozenflame offer a talking point about Glyph's inactivity in a past game. Except, I've already broken down why his inactivity in Bebop in no way resembled his inactivity here, which one could see right off the bat from the fact that Glyph was posting and hadn't replaced out. And frozenflame PLAYED that game. And best of all, this talking point he offers us has nothing to do with what's actually going on in THIS GAME. The closest he comes to that is the incredibly grimy bold section, which basically begs for someone else to "look into" it and push toward a (possibly town?) lynch.

And I mean, he even quotes my precise god damn words with "aggressive inactivity", which means he's ****ing reading. SO WHY IS HE ASKING PEOPLE THIS QUESTION WHEN HE'S ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE THAT EVEN HAS ACCESS TO READ BEBOP, AND WAS IN IT TO BEGIN WITH. Good God. This whole section is just so impressively methodical in its unhelpfulness and its potential pitfalls if someone were to pay it mind.

-Offers an admittedly interesting talking point, carefully straddles the fence in doing so. How does frozen feel? It's "strange". Cool story bro would read that stance again [if it existed]. Point is offered, action is not taken. And this is definitely a point that's designed to make people increase their suspicion of Jerkus, and yet frozen doesn't ostensibly WANT that outcome. No, this is grody.

What's also grody is that he bothers with the damn orange section where he talks about how he "doesn't know how anyone" could have him as less scummy than the others for mere activity, while offering talking points for both guys that go well beyond activity.

-The pledge is made. Was it kept? No, frozen got worse than ever. Despite being out of johns.

In fact, that's his last post for all of D1. Welp.


Day two!

I totally feel Gheb's frustration with the setup. Being a solo indy with an investigative role designed just to find you is pretty balls. Def. too hard for him if he is TRULY a solo indy. Let's not pretend it's impossible for SK's to be linked to another indy in larger games (it's happened before, way back in SP Mafia II).

Keeping him around to use as a vig is a somewhat attractive option, and a well directed BP SK certainly poses a greater threat to the scum than the mafia in the short term. Have to get rid of him eventually though.

Also, this does not in any way clear Gord IMO. He could easily be a scum stalker or something of the like and figured out Gheb's role by other, not so townie means.

@ Gheb, were you responsible for either of the disappearances last night? If so, why did you target not flip? If not, who did you target?

-1st paragraph: Posts a little sympathy for Gheb, rambles about it. Unhelpful post padding. Then he goes on to speculate about the SK being linked to another player which is... astronomically unlikely. And look at the accusatory tone he puts there -- "and let's not pretend..." Listen here, children, and I'll tell you what's the ****ens! And, christ, the example he's citing is ****ing South Park Mafia II. You know, that game from back when Eor was playing.

Helpful speculation? Hardly. Just more post-padding, more talking about things that don't actually put you on the spot via taking a stance on people. And, hell, it's to scum's best interest to maintain a stance like that in the public eye anyway, because it allows you to push for someone even if their connections to flipped and dead mafiats don't make any sense later on.

-2nd paragraph: Says that keeping Gheb around is a "somewhat attractive option" (careful legal language, as always). Note that unlike Acid Dough he doesn't even seem to have a timeline on this... just, hey, let's keep him around. Yes, he says we have to get rid of him eventually. He's still very indefinite about how long, and multiple cycles is a truly indefensible position.

Also, scumslip ? Really, though. That's an incredibly shortsighted thing to say and doesn't fit the analytical frozenflame at all. More of a threat to mafia? When we'll be directing his kills, and therefore telegraphing them the Day before they occur? Allowing scum to manipulate them? Furthermore, the odds are unavoidably strong of us hitting town with that bonus kill even throwing out scum PRs, and that would continuously move us half a cycle closer to doom each time just by Gheb's being alive. A mere two Nights and you've nixed a full cycle and thus lynch from the game. And that's throwing out how ****ing disorganized we were (and are), and how hard it would have been to actually make methodical and well-executed decisions on not one target for lynch, but one for lynch and one for vig kill. Every Day. Yeah, lol, no. Not happening in this game, and probably any SWF mafia game at all.

I can think of a faction that would benefit from this. It ain't town.

Quickhammer and you're ****ing scum btw. Or delusional and awful town.

But seriously, don't ****ing hammer Gheb.

Feh.

I answer to and call out frozenflame within the hour to give him a chance to answer for his wonkiness and make me see his perspective. He apparently never checks back... not in over a day and a half. Despite the very important things being tabled, and such. Despite his utterly vehement stance on the matter.


frozenflame in a nutshell: Excusey, shortsighted, shallow, reluctant to take stances on alignment (in fact he hasn't done so once), despite this readily offers up talking points that could put people afoul of others, and strangely well-versed on current events despite his invisibility.

C'mon, boys, let's lynch this clown.

 

[Deleted member]

Gorf is definite scum, guys.

Vote: Gorf

Just go with me on this.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Gorf is definite scum, guys.

Vote: Gorf

Just go with me on this.

Gorf

The guy who claimed to be an FBI agent who had found the SK (who turned out to REALLY BE THE SK)

Is define scum. I will not 'just go with you'.

EE on the other hand has a case that I agree with entirely.

vote: Frozen

 

[Evil Eye]

whoooooooo who let the DOGS out???

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Dude that looks long on my itouch screen... BUT I PROMISED. But I must say it's hard concentrating with Ausuphers pressure

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Man EE how do you just do that?

Note about the orange section: wouldn't the queerness of him mentioning just glyph and circus kinda point in the opposite direction for possibly one of them? Surely I doubt all three would be on a scum team cuz that's be silly. But I can most def see a scum mate tell an inactive scum mate to voice pressure against them, especially if said scummy is under fire (moreso hinting at circus). You kinda get what I'm saying?

 

[Evil Eye]

I agree, actually, I was rethinking that after when I reread my analyses. The fencesittiness, after all, puts both of them in very safe positions.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Btw... NOT DONE, just thought I'd bring that up as long as it was on my mind. Back to reading!

Oh and my lack of commenting on things means I like/agree/can't disagree.

 

[Evil Eye]

Wait so Auspher's seriously just gonna...

I thought there was gonna be a followup.

God this kid is a troll ghghghgh

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Actually, reading the yellow and lime section, it's almost transparent, the possibility of a FF/J scum team. The idea behind his suspicion behind Glyph being almost solidly meta, if not totally, versus his relatively detailed (and mind you, I use the term detailed loosely) description of Circus seems like a decent outlet if scumCircus was leaving and gave that info to scumFrozen...

HMMMMMMMMMMMM...

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Lol ****ens is censored.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Welp. That was quite the read. How you manage to not reach really amazes the shiz out of me.

Unvote vote FF

Totally looking at J if FF flips scum.

 

[Asdioh]

I've heard rumors of FF's history as a good player, but does anyone know whether he has a preference as to scum or town? I know nothing about him.

I'm fine with temporarily becoming EE's double vote though.

unvote
vote: Frozenflame

L-3 I think

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

You know you're way better when you actually read games homie.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Reading and crying tears that EE needs to soothe.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Oh cool Rykers here now I'm definitely not getting any sleep before I ready for school... IN AN HOUR

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

mentosman, KevinM, and Rajam.

These are some weird ****ing abductions.

REALLY doubt we're dealing with abductions instead of Jans.

 

[Evil Eye]

I can dig. So, you think, what, they're hitting scummy townies in hopes of avoiding town PR meddling?

 

[Evil Eye]

It would be nice if we could get confirmation of their being dead. Usually janned players are confirmed dead, but flip as ???. Not just... become ???.