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LIVE vids of Ankoku's Sheik. PLEASE GIVE ADVICE

demodemo

Smash Ace
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didn't watch all of the wolf vids but

good sheik, great use of offstage bairs

some things i saw that made me cringe slightly

-you could transform a LOT earlier
-you get your opponents in high percentages, but only kill with bair. what about usmash? even without a tipper it is still one of sheik's best kill moves
-more ftilt in general is needed, however this applies to all videos i see. ftilt to utilt really needs to be used more often then it is

that bair jain jacket against meta was too good hahaha
 

ADHD

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The thing I noticed the most is you need to go zelda a bit earlier.

Yeah you're good, haha stealth pretty much said anything i could say >_<
 

popsofctown

Smash Champion
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Thanks for posting some vids for me to watch ankoku...
I don't think i'm good enough a player to criticize, but i can applaud. *applaud*. I liked the match against marth.
 

imdavid

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the wolf and MK matches had me at the edge of my.. bed? well ... this "advice" is something you might totally ignore!

against the marth, sometimes its better to just grab rather than sidestep, i guess the start up on some of marth's moves is slower than your shield grab

against the MK i have no advice to say but really really good job! the jab on the shields to grabs where really good, also i really liked how you ledge dropped to vanish on the stage, i thought that was quite clever... and then i thought "why the hell didn't i think of that?" >.<

personally, i think omniswell is amazing. whenever i try to play wolf, the moment i'm off the stage i die instantly because i have no clue how to work his recovery -.- well, in those matches i have to compliment your sheik for always being on the move, you even were moving as you were charging your needles somehow, (well it looked like it) but as you were moving so much, it seemed like you were whiffing grabs when you could have just downsmashed. i could understand not wanting to downsmash, but to me i thought it would have been great opportunities to get wolf off the ledge and into a gimpable kill, and... maybe try using the tether to edge hog next time >.< that last death made me want to cry

against the ice climbers, all i can say is.. i would have been three stocked, no pointers for you there except good job separating them and giving good percentage on nana
 

DanGR

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Pops, I don't even use Sheik and I'm gonna critique. ^_^ Hope you don't mind Ankoku.

Btw, great sheik. The marth match was painful, yet fun to watch.(to see marth lose) Use more uptilt out of ftilt. Also, you can duck under some of the fair wall. Against DDD you don't have to be so aggressive!!! It cost you a lot. Just throw you needles. Sheik does better on defense against larger characters anyways. You never have to approach against DDD. You used fair a lot against DDD, not just for gimp kills. Try to use bair and nair more until they're off stage. Then your fair won't be so decayed and you'll have an easier time getting gimp kills.
 

stealthsushi

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Wonderful Sheik matches Ankoku. Your Sheik is much more refined than your Wifi matches :) Good stuff.

I thoroughly liked your Marth, MK, and DeDeDe matches. They gave a good representation of how Sheik can perform against commonly used characters. Loved the B-Air Chain Jacket against MK; I noticed how he just stood there for a little bit wondering what to do. Haha. His Drill Rush has some good priority on it by the looks of it. Another thing I noticed was how Sheik's D-Air outprioritized MK's Shuttle Loop.

I'd agree with re-evaluating the matchup versus MK seeing as you didn't have as much difficulty with him as I originally expected. You killed him quite early and the chain usage was definitely a great change-up here and there. I noticed that you incorporated much of the information from the matchup/counterpick thread from the needle spam, to the varied edge-guarding, and keeping close to the center of the stage. It was a nice demonstration on some basic strategy when challenging MK. I'd probably shift a few points, maybe 10 or so towards Sheik.

In your match versus Wolf, I noticed you had some trouble with his aerial game and that tricky edge-hog. I would still keep the match-up in Sheik's favor seeing as how you quickly got the advantage in the match once you locked him on the 3rd stock (1st match) and almost had that easy kill in the second game with that triple F-Air edgeguard; Omniswell overall did a great job avoiding the F-Tilt for the matches.

Ice Climbers were definitely frightening to watch, but it appears that D-Smash works pretty well against them. If you were to approach with the ice blocks coming at you, I'd suggest using U-Tilt and IASA an F-Tilt to reflect the projectiles back incase you want to approach that way. The DeDeDe match was just lolz; Sheik is in complete control of that match. Surprising how much DeDeDe's ground game suffers when he can't chain grab as its more difficult to get them off the stage and setup for his great aerial game and edgeguarding ability.

Overall, great Sheik. But there are some things I'd like to point and out and may add to your game:

1. Utilize the U-Tilt more.
I rarely saw this move come out after watching all the matches. It was used about 5-6 times in 8 matches. Its an awesome move to mix in with your F-Tilts, Jabs, and D-Tilts as the timing is varied slightly due to the two-hit nature of the move. Also, the range is pretty good on the attack with a respectable amount of priority. I think using this move, especially in your Wolf match, might have helped you turn the pressure onto Wolf. Also, using this to finish off lower-percent F-Tilt locks helps rack easier and more damage while keeping your U-Smash more fresh.

2. Don't forget about Crawling!
This one is a bit more situation, but this might help when Wolf is stalling on the ledge with his Forward-B and you feel that your Chain and Needles aren't sufficient enough. It lets you approach the edge while staying low, making it unlikely that Wolf will hit you unless he decides to scrape onto the stage. You might be able to bait him out by crawling, and if he doesn't bite, you might be able to reach the edge and land a D-Tilt (or U-Tilt) before he can reach. This way you won't have to take a chance jumping off the stage or initiating a perfectly spaced Chain.

3. F-Tilt More (but of course, don't overdo it!)
There were a reasonable amount of F-Tilts going around, but sometimes it won't hurt to throw in a few more F-Tilts if you notice they didn't perfect shield it. Sometimes they might drop their shield in retaliation, but the risk-reward between getting hit or landing an F-Tilt lock (or F-Tilt setup if they can't be locked) is definitely worth it. It's great as pressure and its probably Sheik's most feared move. Using it a little bit more won't hurt too much.

4. Throw in more grab releases (non-jump)
This is works as a great mix-up. If you can squeeze in a few hits at mid-high percents, you opponent will most definitely be mashing to escape. You can take advantage of this by waiting until the last moment (or just waiting longer) before throwing, or simple keep attacking and have them released into a perfect F-Tilt / D-Tilt range. You can also vary the speed of your grab attacks and you might be able to force them into a DI trap with the F-Throw/B-Throw if they expect a grab release. Great way to utilize Sheik's mind games and pretty good throwing.

5. Use Zelda's D-Tilt and U-Tilt
I think I saw a D-Tilt like once and no U-Tilts. I noticed at times you had to bide a lot of time to score that last hit in (like versus Marth). Some setups with D-Tilt can make it much easier to get that KO hit. Also, the U-Tilt has amazing KO power (as its rarely ever decayed) and sends at a quite vertical angle. It has a long lasting hitbox, and is great if you expect an early spot dodge or roll into you.

This should add to your game and I'm sure you'll find some uses for them here and there for your different match ups! Keep up the vids :D!

Go Sheik!!
 

Villi

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I hope my advice is a little helpful. It was difficult to think of things I might have done differently, but I gave it a try.

Video 1:

0:54 -- Follow up your vanish catches with an attack. You had a lagless landing and he didn't tech his fall, so you could have easily landed a quick attack.

I thought you had a good variety of approaches for most of the match.

Video 3:

I notice at 2:12 on you were spinning your chain counter clock-wise. It worked out fine with the bair hitbox, but for a regular short hopped chain, clockwise would have gotten more chain behind you.

Video 4:

0:54 -- After that empty short-hop, you were in a position to get under MK with an usmash.

1:03 -- You didn't space that vanish well. It seems like that fox trot might have been to give you time to think, but it messed up an opportunity for you. You had plenty of time to watch what MK was doing during your ledge roll animation.

2:12 -- I think you tried to predict a ledge roll (that's you not him), but he's always either just gotten up or shuttle loop stalled and then gotten up until this point.

2:34 -- You're punished for ledge rolling consistently.

I didn't wanna do anymore after that. Makes me wanna get video equipment and do the same to myself now...
 

Villi

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Ah, your Ice Climber gimps were grreat! lol That guy wasn't gonna let her go down easy... so funny when you jumped over him. xD Nana was a sitting duck on the platform! :O!!!
 

momochuu

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Too good...You make me want to main Shiek. o.o

 

Zankoku

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Wow, thanks for all the advice and comments!

I'll try to work on the stuff all of you guys suggested, except transforming earlier (Zelda is still a scary option for me, I never know if I'm going to get that easy KO or if I'm going to nearly die trying to get it).
 

VilNess

Smash Champion
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Finland
I watched the second metaknight vid. Very nice. When doing a grounded upB, make sure to adjust the height so that fall a bit (like between east and southeast) to reduce lag. Overall I think it you who should be giving me advice ;) .

Also the empty shorthop at somewhere near the end of the match when MK was over you made think. Is it more practical to go for an upB and aim yourself away? just a thought...
 

popsofctown

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The wolf videos raise this question: is it possible to punish Wolf's stall with two transforms? When he has a small lead, it would certainly be worth it.
 

0RLY

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Personally, I don't use Zelda. You could get your kills much more easily just by edgeguarding while your foe is offstage instead of transforming. Especially against Wolf's horrible sauce recovery. Why didn't you try gimping him? You had plenty of opportunities.
 

SinkingHigher

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Wow, thanks for all the advice and comments!

I'll try to work on the stuff all of you guys suggested, except transforming earlier (Zelda is still a scary option for me, I never know if I'm going to get that easy KO or if I'm going to nearly die trying to get it).
Practice with Zelda.

Whenever I have a hard time and I start Sheiking out, I change to Zelda and I'm untouchable. Often, Sheik's weaknesses are Zelda's strengths. No punny type thing intended.

Anyway, Zelda has a LOT of set-ups for KOs:

N-air > U-Smash >> U-air if necessary.

Din > F-air/U-smash

Farore's Wind > Spike/F-air/B-air/Din.
Ledge-warp > D-air/F-air/B-air/U-air.

D-tilt > D-smash.

I'm sure there are other creative ways to screw someone over.

Anyway, wait for an opportunity if you're on your last stock. D-smash is one of Zelda's quickest and most powerful attacks.

Seriously, Zelda is great for racking up damage and KOing. Switching earlier isn't such a bad idea.
 

Zankoku

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I have nine more vids up, from a tournament earlier today that I got 2nd at. Enjoy.
 

imdavid

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great vids ankoku, can you tell me your thoughts on the yoshi match? i haven't fought any good yoshi's, so i was wondering your input on it

i really enjoyed seeing your fastfalled fairs into AAA combos, but is it possible to get the fair->ftilt lock? i've done it a few times, i'm just wondering if the spacing against the wolf wasn't right or something, it might have helped a few times, but you got those wolf matches down. also, why didn't omniswell just stay with IC? it would have been the preferred match up :/

the only insight that i can give, which is probably apparent to you... is to find some way to kill them faster. and someone on the samus boards claimed that grab attacks helps your diminished returns, if that's true, you should throw in a few more in the higher percents since you grab so much :] it might help you with the killing problem?
 

Zankoku

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Omniswell DID stay with ICs. He proceeded to wreck me for four rounds straight while I played with characters that weren't Sheik and thus I didn't list on this thread.

I usually just go with two, because Sheik's pummels are rather slow and people already break out after two at the 80ish % sometimes, which annoys me.
 

a77

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You missed the grab release > u-smash on Wario. Had a chance to KO with it again at the end, too.
 

stealthsushi

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Great to see you placing well in the tourny. I liked that you threw in a few more U-Tilts this time around, but I think you should F-Tilt more over following up some Jabs with grabs. It also looks like you had a good handle on the Sheik/Wolf matchup; I, too, thoroughly enjoyed the F-Tilt Locks :)

The IC match was definitely very painful to watch, seeing how badly Sheik/Zelda got beat in that match up. The Yoshi match-up was also interesting, but you seemed to handle that one well too. I'd suggest that you make sure you get the kill in before changing back though :)
 

The Great Leon

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I noticed some things from the first set of matches that you did a pretty good job of fixing. I saw a lot less of the same mistakes during tourney. But the first thing that stood out to me was that you Up-B predictably.

When you're just off the ledge, and sometimes a little under, you almost always teleport back onto the stage. A lot of the time your opponent would either sit there or maneuver into position to hit you back out. Vs the wario you did a good job of mixing it up, but you should throw in some teleports directly to the ledge (dangerous) or above it so you can fall down to the ledge. Granted these aren't the safest options, but they should be considered.

The rest are not so much of a big deal. I saw a noticeable amount of times you used another move instead of Zelda's D-Smash. This move comes out really quickly and I don't think you love it enough. Also, I've had painful experiences trying to attack with her Neutral-B. I think you've noticed the same.

Having watched all the matches vs Wolf, I couldn't think of anything to comment on that you already didn't realize yourself. You started off actively trying to F-Tilt, which wasn't working. And then you sort of let it fade into the plethora of moves being thrown out. I do think you may have over corrected a little bit, as it couldn't hurt to use it a bit more. At least against Wolf. I think the match up definitely takes F-Tilt to 100% into account, but also Wolf's recovery is pretty punishable and you did a good job of putting the hurt on.

Why do you use Zelda's D-Throw? I usually opt for a B-Throw and follow up with a projectile or two. I would assume its to set up into U-Smash, but iirc that didn't work too often.

Your Sheik is **** and you are pretty much the best thing that happened to these boards. Maybe these observations will help to get the last few kinks out. Thanks for reading so much >_>

tl;dr
Practice as Zelda more. Switch earlier.
Vary Sheik's Up-B trajectory.
Play more Yoshis lol.
Play more Icies.
 

Zankoku

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Thank you for the advice.

I may or may not play more Zelda, depending on how I decide to develop with Sheik.
Yes, I screw up Vanish recoveries a lot. I'll work on this...
lol.
I plan on it.
 

RedPeppers

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Stealthsushi had a nice post. All I can add after watching the first 8 is:

Zelda: D-smash. It's fast, gets them away from you, and if you can do it near the edge it's a kill move all on it's own.

Shiek: U-tilt maybe when they're escaping the F-tilt lock, it's free damage, and may catch them off guard.
 

Zankoku

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It will be a while before I get more vids. I might have some two weeks from now, though.
 

MdrnDayMercutio

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Thank you. It's been bugging the hell outta me.

Liked the vids by the way. Wish I was good enough to play Sheik competitively. Although I might start bringing her out against D3 if I'm not in a Sonic kinda mood.
 

imdavid

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Thanks Ankoku, i didn't finish watching them... just got back from the beach and I'm dead tired. I watched all of your ice-climbers vids and your first wolf match.

Its really encouraging to see you wreck havoc on nana and gimping the IC recovery. It's also great to see the wonders you've done to improve your zelda! Your lightning kicks could do some more work, but for where you are right now it doesn't seem like you even need them. Transforming into zelda is helping you get the kill a bit earlier and is helping you survive like crazy.

I really, really liked your vanish kill on the wolf, it was very classy. Using FF-ed aerials like you do would really improve my game. After watching your last videos, it inspired me to grab a helluva lot more and I've seen my win rate improve drastically while it also makes me play smarter, thanks Ankoku ^^

(What character do you use as a counter-pick to IC when you don't use sheik? your sheik is looking like it could take down omni's icies soon, but maybe its just because it was homefield advantage at your house)
 

Zankoku

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I'm considering ZSS as a counter for ICs, though I'm told Peach and Zelda are acceptable choices as well. However, as you can tell from that I play female characters. Omniswell tells me he is most afraid of the ICs vs MK matchup.
 

imdavid

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Hrm that is what I heard as well. I don't like the way MK fights, doesn't really match my playstyle, but seeing how I don't play smart enough not to get grabbed I might as well try it out. My zelda does pretty good against icies though :/ *grumble grumble* I just don't like ice climbers.
 

stealthsushi

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Thanks for putting up more vids Ankoku :) They're always a joy to watch. Its good to see that your Zelda is improving like changing up the Din's Fire timing, but I still see a little bit of early transformations back into Sheik without getting the kill :) I'd for for some more aggressive edge-guarding if you have the opportunity at upper-mid to low-high percentages. Also, I'd suggest more F-Tilting! Didn't see too many F-Tilt locks against Wolf in your matches (unless you were being nice and didn't want to F-Tilt :D)

The IC matches were definitely painful to watch since they were heavily in the IC's favor. You did manage a win though, but it was awfully close :) For a counter against IC, I'd definitely go with Samus. I'm in the process of picking up Samus along with Sheik as a mix-up and decent counter versus some of Sheik's not-so-favorable matchups. I, too, only use female characters :D Love their combo-friendly moves and variety. Samus can hold her own versus IC using bombs, missiles, and Z-Air for spacing and D-Tilt, F-Air, D-Air are good setups to get the IC's in the air where Samus can do the dominating.
 
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