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List of things to buff Mewtwo

RoyIsOurBoy_TTG

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I'm suggesting. I'm not saying it would happen, but it should happen. Also, characters have gotten hitboxes removed, decreased and increased in size, so its not impossible for a character to get another hitbox.
Removing and adjusting hitboxes are completely different and far easier than adding an entirely new hitbox. It's still a possibility, but that's probably one of the last possible buffs that would ever be implemented.
 
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godogod

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What's your point? Its as [im]probable as 98% of the buffs we ask here for Mewtwo or any other character to get in future patches. We've already been through this. We're talking about what he deserves., not what will surely happen. Though there's always that element of surprise from Sakurai.
 

RoyIsOurBoy_TTG

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What's your point? Its as [im]probable as 98% of the buffs we ask here for Mewtwo or any other character to get in future patches. We've already been through this. We're talking about what he deserves., not what will surely happen. Though there's always that element of surprise from Sakurai.
My point was exactly what I responded to: your statement of "characters have gotten hitboxes removed, decreased and increased in size" and how it doesn't justify the inclusion of a brand new hitbox because it's completely different. And my ending statement "It's still a possibility, but that's probably one of the last possible buffs that would ever be implemented." was just my concluding thought on the whole thing because I'm done talking this. So don't respond back.
 

meleebrawler

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It needs more vertical range if anything. Go into training mode and down tilt mario at 0%, then immediately down smash, it doesn't connect. If you slow it down to 1/4 speed Mario is literally in the purple explosion... it has like no vertical range, at all.
Gee, a DOWN smash doesn't hit high up? Criminy.

And you shouldn't be using dsmash in a combo anyway, it starts too slow for that. Use (dashing) usmash instead.
 

GanonPawnch

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Gee, a DOWN smash doesn't hit high up? Criminy.

And you shouldn't be using dsmash in a combo anyway, it starts too slow for that. Use (dashing) usmash instead.
Don't get sarcastic with me when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Mario is almost touching the floor and is literally engulfed in the purple explosion. It's like the hit box is ONLY on the ground... that doesn't represent his down smash effects, at all. It's like you have to be touching the ground for it to hit at all.

-Sigh- Of course you don't use down smash in a combo. That was so you could test it yourself to see how it whiffs.

I don't mean to get grumpy, but my god...
 

420quickscoper

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Don't get sarcastic with me when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Mario is almost touching the floor and is literally engulfed in the purple explosion. It's like the hit box is ONLY on the ground... that doesn't represent his down smash effects, at all. It's like you have to be touching the ground for it to hit at all.

-Sigh- Of course you don't use down smash in a combo. That was so you could test it yourself to see how it whiffs.

I don't mean to get grumpy, but my god...
I guess that's how it's suppose to be. Honestly it's nothing very big compared to things like back air hitbox problems.

I'm suggesting. I'm not saying it would happen, but it should happen. Also, characters have gotten hitboxes removed, decreased and increased in size, so its not impossible for a character to get another hitbox. I guess having more vertical hitboxes would help too.. Or up tilt needs to be effective against rollers.

I do have another thought also.
if Mewtwo got his melee weight back(from 72 to 85) or even average like lucario(95-100), how much would that help his survivability? Does a meer 10 points in weight(from 72 to 82) makes him survive for 10% ore/longer his current weight? What exactly is the formula?

Has anyone ever made a chart of some sorts to gauge when characters can get KO'd by a Mario in FD in a certain percentage by an up/sidesmash?

Judging how Jigglypuff has 72 weight points and that's pretty close to 80, and Bowser has around 128 weight points, it's quite accurate to their death percentages.

Oh, and talking about weight buffs. Can you just stop talking about that? What's the point of it when it's never actually going to happen? I'm being serious. It WILL not happen.

First off, stop getting hit by these strong hits.
Second, realize that there has been no patch that changes the weight of the character.
Mewtwo was meant to be this way. Stupid, I know.

It's pretty stupid, but I don't need it patched.
Honestly if we need any buffs at all, wouldn't that just be better hit-boxes and a bit better frame data? I mean, having a frame 3 or 4 move would be very nice. I think that making Jab and Down Tilt Frame 3 and hit-box stuff is all we really need.

Or if all you guys want, you can just hang around in this thread talking about buffs. What a total waste of time.

Instead of suggesting buffs for his weight, how about 100% forgetting about his weight? That seems to be the biggest reason why Mewtwo isn't developing super quick.

(I'm really sorry for being harsh like that but I'm pretty mad about this weight buff thing.)
 
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Onoh

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Most likely they're not going to change Mewtwo's weight, but we can live without that. I feel Confusion needs to have more stun so it's a reliable combo tool. You can already connect with Fair, Fsmash, and Shadow Ball on a non-moving CPU, so just add a few frames before you can escape. They could also add more range to Disable, and maybe have some aerials with less landing-lag. (Also maybe increase Uair knock back so it kills? It sounds reasonable. :confused:)
 

meleebrawler

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Most likely they're not going to change Mewtwo's weight, but we can live without that. I feel Confusion needs to have more stun so it's a reliable combo tool. You can already connect with Fair, Fsmash, and Shadow Ball on a non-moving CPU, so just add a few frames before you can escape. They could also add more range to Disable, and maybe have some aerials with less landing-lag. (Also maybe increase Uair knock back so it kills? It sounds reasonable. :confused:)
The problem with Confusion is that if you let it true combo, it'll be a bit too good for that because not only is the knockback perfectly constant, you can't even tech your way out like with Ganon's Flame Choke. It would basically devolve him to just "land Confusion to win".
 

Xzsmmc

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I was pessimistic about Mewtwo at one point, pointing out the flaws with him and praying for buffs just like a lot of people did. Hell, I made the damn video in the OP.

However, over time, I realized that was a toxic mindset to have and the sheer negativity was holding me back. I was too busy blaming the character for my mistakes instead of adapting and getting better. It was like "why use Mewtwo if you're going to be so pessimistic? Why not try and work around his mistakes if you enjoy playing as him"?

As meleebrawler said, waiting for buffs is a terrible mindset to have. They may not even happen and nothing is ever guaranteed. You work with the cards you have. If buffs come? Great, it's a gift. If they don't? It's not like you were expecting them in the first place.
People ******* about Diddy, and he got some major nerfs. Squeaky wheel and all.
 

RoyIsOurBoy_TTG

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Ok, so, after playing the Melee Mewtwo for awhile recently, I would just like to say that I take back everything bad that I ever said about the Smash 4 Mewtwo on this thread, because I realized how unbelievably atrocious that character is in comparison to the Smash 4 one. Mewtwo's flaws here still are very apparent, but I'll take this game's Mewtwo over the Melee one every day of every week of the year.

If I have helped shape the opinions of the people that do nothing but whine about Mewtwo's problems from all of the complaining I've been doing this year, instead of looking for positives, I apologize.

I guess that's my one-month-early New Years resolution.
 
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meleebrawler

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People ******* about Diddy, and he got some major nerfs. Squeaky wheel and all.
More than that, he was f**king everywhere because of how easy he was. And so was Luigi. They didn't nerf them just to make whiners happy, they have to see if their claims really do have merit and results backing them up.
 
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PhantomShab

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Ok, so, after playing the Melee Mewtwo for awhile recently, I would just like to say that I take back everything bad that I ever said about the Smash 4 Mewtwo on this thread, because I realized how unbelievably atrocious that character is in comparison to the Smash 4 one.
Exactly like I told you way back in this very thread.
 

Xzsmmc

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More than that, he was f**king everywhere because of how easy he was. And so was Luigi. They didn't nerf them just to make whiners happy, they have to see if their claims really do have merit and results backing them up.
Given how poor Mewtwo's tournament presence has been and how the general consensus amongst most players is that he's pretty bad, I'd say the claims do have merit.
 

LRodC

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Given how poor Mewtwo's tournament presence has been and how the general consensus amongst most players is that he's pretty bad, I'd say the claims do have merit.
I don't think Luigi was exactly taking names at every single tournament before he was nerfed. He was doing well, but not exactly winning them all. He was nerfed because he took too little skill to get good with, and he offered too much reward for the amount of skill required. Same with Diddy.

I don't think tournaments have to do with as much as people think. It's probably a combination of them, casual play, online play data, Internet opinion, and play testing/discretion of the playtesters. Diddy and Luigi were polarizing on a casual level so they got the bat. Mewtwo may get the buffs due to player demand and tournament presence, but who knows what will happen?
 
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MarioMeteor

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Don't get sarcastic with me when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Mario is almost touching the floor and is literally engulfed in the purple explosion. It's like the hit box is ONLY on the ground... that doesn't represent his down smash effects, at all. It's like you have to be touching the ground for it to hit at all.

-Sigh- Of course you don't use down smash in a combo. That was so you could test it yourself to see how it whiffs.

I don't mean to get grumpy, but my god...
If it's not meant to combo, and it doesn't whiff on the ground, what are you pissy about? It does its job as a down smash. It's the least of his problems, anyway. I look at Mewtwo's hitboxes sometimes and I think to myself, "Sakurai, please take pity on this character." I mean, Christ, it might be worse than Samus.
 

meleebrawler

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If it's not meant to combo, and it doesn't whiff on the ground, what are you pissy about? It does its job as a down smash. It's the least of his problems, anyway. I look at Mewtwo's hitboxes sometimes and I think to myself, "Sakurai, please take pity on this character." I mean, Christ, it might be worse than Samus.
Do people often fall out of his usmash? Does his jab fail to link to the followup?
 

MarioMeteor

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Only if you just barely graze it, and that happens to Megaman too.
I've seen the initial hit whiff on shorter characters (I'm pretty sure it even happened to me), pretty much ****ing up the entire move.

I mean the multihit, btw. It doesn't fail if you don't delay in the slightest on fastfallers.
Oh, no, the multi hit is actually pretty good about that.
 

MarioMeteor

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Does it actually LOOK like it should hit short characters on the ground?
Yes. The way he brings his hand up, it definitely looks like it should hit. The galaxy is large enough to hit short characters too, except for maybe a crouching Jigglypuff or Game & Watch. And don't you think it's kind of a critical flaw for his best KO move to whiff on some characters?
 

meleebrawler

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Yes. The way he brings his hand up, it definitely looks like it should hit. The galaxy is large enough to hit short characters too, except for maybe a crouching Jigglypuff or Game & Watch. And don't you think it's kind of a critical flaw for his best KO move to whiff on some characters?
Well honestly it just serves you right for trying to hit a high-endlag anti-air without setting it up first, when you have a much less risky ground explosion.
 

MarioMeteor

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Well honestly it just serves you right for trying to hit a high-endlag anti-air without setting it up first, when you have a much less risky ground explosion.
That has significantly weaker knockback, range, and is 12 frames slower.
 

meleebrawler

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That has significantly weaker knockback, range, and is 12 frames slower.
Are you still on an earlier patch? It's only slightly weaker in knockback now.

The lack of reach not above Mewtwo is made up for by the fact that it can be set up with the even quicker jab followed by utilt.
 

MarioMeteor

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Are you still on an earlier patch? It's only slightly weaker in knockback now.

The lack of reach not above Mewtwo is made up for by the fact that it can be set up with the even quicker jab followed by utilt.
Neither of which are guarenteed.
 

GanonPawnch

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If it's not meant to combo, and it doesn't whiff on the ground, what are you pissy about? It does its job as a down smash. It's the least of his problems, anyway. I look at Mewtwo's hitboxes sometimes and I think to myself, "Sakurai, please take pity on this character." I mean, Christ, it might be worse than Samus.
I'm not "pissy" about anything. It was simply something else that doesn't match its visual, that's it. Man, what is with people on here?
 
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MarioMeteor

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The point is it's meant to be anti-air and it does that well. Don't be mad if an attempt to use it otherwise doesn't work out.
Bad hitboxes are bad hitboxes, that's that. If it was strictly meant to be an anti-air, then the animation would've been different.
 

420quickscoper

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I'm not "pissy" about anything. It was simply something else that doesn't match its visual, that's it. Man, what is with people on here?
What's the point about it, though? It doesn't affect Mewtwo's gameplay really. So it's nothing to get worked up about.




Anyways...


I think this may be the longest thread in the Mewtwo forum excluding the Spoon Sword Social. That's bad. This means we spend a lot of time talking about his flaws and how he needs buffs. We may talk about this more than we try and develop his metagame... which is terrible.

We need a lot more people with this positive mindset about him.
 
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Ryusuta

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Honestly, they need to get rid of that ending lag on grounded teleports. for that matter, it would be pretty cool if he could act out of teleports like in Project M, but I know that ain't happening, so I'll take what I can get.

I can actually stand to keep Mewtwo at the weight he's at, but the one thing I'd do is give him a true combo out of his down throw. It looks so much like it should, but at best it's an option select.
 

What is Smash?

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This is going to sound nuts, but absolutely DESTROY Down Throw's knockback. That could lead to an infinite (Down Throw, Jab, Regrab, Down Throw... until Up Throw) a neat FSmash or DSmash combo, any of the tilts, possibly Disable.

To prevent from being too broken, make DThrow-Disable only a thing until 15%. May be impossible, but a guy can dream...
 

meleebrawler

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This is going to sound nuts, but absolutely DESTROY Down Throw's knockback. That could lead to an infinite (Down Throw, Jab, Regrab, Down Throw... until Up Throw) a neat FSmash or DSmash combo, any of the tilts, possibly Disable.

To prevent from being too broken, make DThrow-Disable only a thing until 15%. May be impossible, but a guy can dream...
Pretty sure regrab immunity wouldn't reset in time to make this work. The developers are VERY anti-chaingrab.

Also, killing the knockback would allow Mewtwo to get kicked in the face by frame 3 nairs and the like.
 
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420quickscoper

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This is going to sound nuts, but absolutely DESTROY Down Throw's knockback. That could lead to an infinite (Down Throw, Jab, Regrab, Down Throw... until Up Throw) a neat FSmash or DSmash combo, any of the tilts, possibly Disable.

To prevent from being too broken, make DThrow-Disable only a thing until 15%. May be impossible, but a guy can dream...
Yes, because giving Mewtwo a buff that more than half the cast already have is going to make him so much more interesting and different to other characters.

Mewtwo already has a good combo ability and giving him a down throw combo is perhaps the most uninteresting way to buff him. Do we really need it? No.
 

Furret24

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Yes, because giving Mewtwo a buff that more than half the cast already have is going to make him so much more interesting and different to other characters.

Mewtwo already has a good combo ability and giving him a down throw combo is perhaps the most uninteresting way to buff him. Do we really need it? No.
Could we make dthrow good in some way atleast?
 

Ryusuta

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I 100% agree with Furret. There's really no good reason for down throw to not combo into anything. It would give Mewtwo some desperately needed setups (since down tilt isn't always the best option).
 
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