List of Horizontal Ko Potential Moves And Characters: going into testing

[litlwing]

READ THIS FIRST:
All though the following results are a good assumption of how strong theses moves are, understand that they are not completely accurate and certain mechanics of the game make it harder then first anticipated to test the actual knock back and i will continue to find better more accurate ways to test these moves.

But not now, this crap takes to long and I'm tired.

----- READ -----
(All tests are done against Marth, because he is a common character whom is not to small and not to big tho he is a little light, with no DI, or outside influence and at 0%. All moves are fully charged and connect with all portions of the respective attack and are sweet-spotted if needed)


UPDATE: a few air moves with horizontal power have been added:
Captain Falcon's famous Knee and Zelda's Thunder Kick
UPDATE: Uncharged smashes for most people added.


*What the Numbers mean....

1. This is not tested by ko'ing people, it is purely a test of the knockback and power of a move.

2. just because a character's move has a knock back of like 3 does not make them bad, the characters with knockbacks above 5 are just absurdly strong with that move.

3. a move with a knock back of 4 will kill marth to the side (with no DI or recovery) at about 80% fully charged from the middle of FD WITHOUT DI (after damage is added i.e. Marth has 60% Mario charges his fsmash and hits marth doing 23% resulting in marth having 83% and dying off the side before he can have a chance to recover) Ill test with DI later.

4. The Reason I use full charged smashs is because all the moves that are listed are still proportionately the same so long as they are all with in the same charge, also the higher level of data means more accurate results, example: interviewing 100 people (full charged) as opposed to 10 people (uncharged) for some sort of survey would be more accurate.

5.uncharged smashes for those whom would like that data as well

Here ill explain how this works:
1. first i will list the characters name.
2. Then I will list the damage the move i am describing does, % wise
3. next the move will be given a number based on knock back between 1 and 10
4. the type of move will be listed last (smash, special, etc.)
5. Now i have included uncharged versions of everyones moves, they are in the same place just right before the larger stats. (if there is an x next the characters number i havent got to add the uncharged smashes)

well thats, it here goes

# - name - % - knockback - move

1. Snake - 22/30% - 7/9.5 - Fsmash
2. Dedede - 24/33% - 5.5/9 - Fsmash / 30% - 5 - Jet Hammer
3. Ike - 22/30% - 4.5/8.5 - Fsmash
4. Ganon - 24/33% - 3/5.5 - Fsmash / 35% - 8.5 - Reverse warlock p. / 27% - 6 - Utilt
5. Marth - 19/28% - 4/7 - Fsmash
6. Bowser - 33/46% - 3.5/7 - Fsmash
7. Link - 32/43% - 3.5/6 - Fsmash
8. Ness - 24/33% - 4/6 - Fsmash / 25% - 7.5 - PK Thunder
9. Charizard - 22/30% - 4/6 - Fsmash
10. Pickachu - 17/23% - 3/4 - Fsmash / 17% - 6 - Thunder
11. G&W - 18/25% - 3/4.5 - Fsmash / 32% - 12 (yeah, thats right) - Level 9 Judgement
12. Mario - 17/23% - 3/4 - fsmash
13. Wario - 19/26% - 34 - fsmash / 40% - 4.5 - Fart
14. DK - 21/29% - 3.5/5.5 - fsmash / 28% - 4.5 - Giant Punch
15. Jigglypuff - 16/22% - 2/3 - fsmash
16. Luigi - 14/19% - 2/3 - fsmash / 30% - 4.5 - Miss-Fire
17. MK - 14/19% - 2.5/3.5 - fsmash / 13/18% - 3.5/4 - Back end of dsmash
18. Captain Falcon - 19/26% - 2.5/4 - fsmash / 28% - 5 - R. Falcon P. / 19% - 4 - Knee
19. Samus - 13/18% - 2/3 - fsmash / 25% - 3.5 - Charge Shot / 14% - 3 - bair
20. Sonic - 14/19% - 3/3.5 - fsmash / 12/16% - 3/3.5 - dsmash
21. Fox - 15/21% - 2/3 - fsmash / 19% - 3.5 - dsmash
x 22. IC - 32% - 4 - fsmash
x 23. Lucario (full aura) - 27% - 4 - fsmash / 26% - 3.5 - Aura Sphere
x 24. Pit - 26% - 3 - fsmash
x 25. Ivysaur - 22% - 4 - fsmash
x 26. Squirtle - 19% - 3 - fsmash
x 27. Wolf - 21% - 3.5 - fsmash / 19% - 4 - dsmash
x 28. Falco - 21% - 4 - fsmash
x 29. Rob - 18% - 3 - fsmash
x 30. Lucas - 21% - 5 - fsmash
31. Zelda - 17/23% - 2.5/3.5 - fsmash / 20% - 4 - Thunder kick
32. Sheik - 14/19% - 3/4 - fsmash
33. Yoshi - 16/22% - 2.5/3.5 - fsmash
34. Diddy - 18/25% - 2.5/3 - fsmash
35. T. link - 23/32% - 3/4.5 - fsmash
36. Z. Samus - 10/14% - 2.5/3 - fsmash / 16% - 3 - Foward special (may need more tests)
37. Kirby - 15/21% - 3/4 - fsmash / 23% - 4 -Hammer

*G&W: Oil panic
This move is kinda situational in that it matters on who your fighting or if you have items yada yada yada but just for fun i did test it with the super scope, here are the results.

X. G&W - 60% - OVER 9000! - Oil panic

but yeah that one is up to you but it pretty much killed in one hit with three super scopes and i doubt that is it's limit.

*Peach and Olimar have odd fsmashes in that they have muiltiple different versions I will decide on the best way to rank these moves soon.


BONUS (because You know you wanna know...)

*Ivysaurs Usmash sends the foe farther up but does less damage then Lucus's usmash.
*Ganons stomp can bounce the foe off the top of the screen from the bottom of the biggest custom stage at roughly 115%, and is the most powerful spike. Ike's dair can bounce the foe the same distance at roughly 155% making it the second strongest meteor smash.
*Pit's & Rob's recovery, in terms of pure vertical rise, makes everyone elses recovery look like a crap fusion of Link and Falco's recovery.
*The 12 that G&W gets is not some "haha" joke it is proportionately that strong as opposed to the other moves. pretty funny tho.
*Smashes seem to have varying Knock back depending on the damage ie: snakes has more knock back then ddds at 0% but ddds knock back goes up faster then snakes fsmash as the percent goes up

Well thats it for now it will be updated later if people start looking at it and what not and i will of course do closer tests under different circumstances but thats it so far. Also if you want a specific move tested tell me and ill prob do it for you and update it onto this list.
I will also be doing uncharged versions of each move to give everyone an even better idea of each moves ability.

Any opinions and critiques are welcome, I would love suggestions and any reasons why anyone thinks anything here is wrong or right, just trying to make it accurate.

Discuss

 

[crifer]

lol where is dk?

 

[litlwing]

sorry i didnt get to everyone, and dk was one of the wierd ones, i can tell that his giant punch seems to get more knock back depending on the foes damage but at low damage it sux pretty bad, like say it has a knock back of 1 at 0% its knockback would go up inproportionately or something weird like to knock back 8 at 30%, sounds weird and i do not know how to describe it but ill do dk tomorrow

 

[honestluigi]

Good work so far, i would like to see how strong wario's fsmash is whenever your ready!

 

[Bud]

why is snakes fsmash that good? what were they thinking?

 

[Blistering Speed]

This list is flawed as it's been proved DDD's Forward Smash is the strongest in the game

 

[JCaesar]

*Pit's recovery makes everyone elses recovery look like a steaming pile of garbage falling into a junk yard.

Not quite. ROB's up-B, when used properly (ie not burning it all at once), goes MUCH farther than Pit's up-B horizontally and vertically.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

This list is flawed as it's been proved DDD's Forward Smash is the strongest in the game

ONLY if it hits at the sweetspot. Otherwise it's pathetic.

Anyway, that list only shows horizontal KOs. There are some nasty vertical killers too. Ivysaur, Lucas, Peach, and Mr. G&W each have a u-smash that can easily KO foes at fairly low damage.

 

[Kros]

Where's PKT2?

 

[BurningCrusader777]

ONLY if it hits at the sweetspot. Otherwise it's pathetic.

Anyway, that list only shows horizontal KOs. There are some nasty vertical killers too. Ivysaur, Lucas, Peach, and Mr. G&W each have a u-smash that can easily KO foes at fairly low damage.

Don't forget Ike's almost full charge nB. 10 friggin' percent.

 

[UltiMario]

Lol at the fact Judgement is rated 12/10.

But Yea, Ike's Almost Fully Charged is the Third Strongest Knockback in the game. Second by roughly 1% is Judgement 9, then the HR Bat

 

[boom-man97]

very nice
are you planing on putting every one in there eventualy?

 

[bman in 2288]

...Hitting with Snake's thighs during fair results in completely vertical knockback. The meteor part comes from his heel during the arcing motion. Basically, you tested the wrong properties of the move.

 

[litlwing]

Thanks for all the feed back guys now to address things.

like i said ill be fixing this list up over time so things will change but for the most part it is accurate

1. Snakes is just slightly stronger (knockback) then ddd's from the test's ive done, but if anyone can show me different then please i would like to make this accurate.

2. i will have everyone on here eventually and i will do more then horizontal killing power eventually and the results will become more accuarate with time.

3. i completely forgot about robs booster abilities and the trick behind it, so rob also makes everyone look like fail

4. Bman thnx for the snake thigh thing that makes since since ive been killed vertically in the air by it before i completely forgot about that.

ill change the list accordingly.

 

[Crizthakidd]

are these fsmashes charged or what?

good list i guess.... who gets hit with ikes fsmash O.o

 

[litlwing]

all that information is explained up at the top but all smashes are charged and used against marth

 

[Ban3]

hey r these kills like they go flying or are they kills that they dies as they recover?

 

[ph00tbag]

*Pit's & Rob's recovery makes everyone elses recovery look like a crap fusion of Link and Falco's recovery.

Except for MK's which makes theirs look even worse than Link.

Also, Falco's recover isn't that bad, considering.

 

[JCaesar]

Except for MK's which makes theirs look even worse than Link.

Also, Falco's recover isn't that bad, considering.

Really? I'd like to see MK go from the bottom to the top of the largest custom stage possible.

MK may have infinite horizontal recovery, like all gliders, but ROB has more than enough up-B to make it left to right on the widest possible stage, so it's really a moot point.

 

[litlwing]

none of these are kill to say it is a messure of knock back but a knock back of 4 is enough to kill someone with 60% (before damage, more after the move) with out recovering, no fall straight to the side, from the middle of FD

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Oil Panic not included?
Because it can go up to 62 damage in normal brawl (60 in the training room), and kills at 0%.
soooooo...

unless I missed something and you werent including certain things?

 

[blink777]

Didn't we have a list of all characters' top three KO potential moves before the game was even released? Some Japanese mag or something?

And I don't agree with using only the fully charged versions of these smash attacks as you will probably never actually get one off in a game. Many unchargable aerials/tilts/specials have more KO potential than the more-likely-to-be-used uncharged/semi-charged version of these "godly" smash attacks.

 

[litlwing]

Oil Panic not included?
Because it can go up to 62 damage in normal brawl (60 in the training room), and kills at 0%.
soooooo...

unless I missed something and you werent including certain things?

I dont use G&W so i completely forgot about oil panic, ill add it later

this is to test everyones horizontal GROUNDED moves so no air attacks are included, the reason i use fully charged smashes is the same reason one would use 100 interviews for some sort of set of data as opposed to 10 interviews, the more power that is put into it the more accurate it is.

Understand what im getting at?

 

[blink777]

this is to test everyones horizontal GROUNDED moves so no air attacks are included, the reason i use fully charged smashes is the same reason one would use 100 interviews for some sort of set of data as opposed to 10 interviews, the more power that is put into it the more accurate it is.

Understand what im getting at?

But how useful is it to have this kind of list then, when the vast majority of the attacks used in the test won't ever be seen in actual gameplay? This seems more like a General Brawl Discussion test than a Brawl Tactical Discussion...

 

[Jibbles]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1liSuba5i8
2:24

Marth's Fully charged Tip FSmash does 28%

 

[Crizthakidd]

doest DDD fsmash kill at 17 on light chars. or 20ish on marth

 

[litlwing]

the attacks are all still proportionately the same strength as opposed to each other when not fully charged i just used full charge smashes to get more accurate results, ill do uncharged versions to give you those results later and i intend on this going into more stuff later like air attacks and so on, but for now im sticking to the grounded moves. You seem a little upset that im doing this blink and i hope i did not offend you or anything, any of your opinions on ways to do this better are welcome.

for jibb: I cant really argue with that, its just i cant seem to recreate 28% from 0% lol i always seem to get 26% but ill change to 28% thnx for the help.

for criz: yes, ddd's fsmash does destroy light characters at crazy low damages, as does snake and ike.

 

[DanGR]

When testing for Olimar, remember to differentiate between the sweet spots on his dsmash and upsmash. Both are right next to Olimar(touching him)

 

[litlwing]

yeah im still trying to figure a good way to do olimar what with 6 different versions of his attack ill prob end up doing all of them later tonight. but thnx for the sweet spot hint.

 

[Mr.Trite]

I could have sworn the fmashes go DDD>Ike>Snake in terms of fully charged knock back =\

 

[Hive]

for samus you should test dtilt... its uncharged, comes out fast and is her main ko move....

 

[litlwing]

Like i said in the OP it will prob shatter ones perception of the characters lol, snakes to strong.

I forgot about samus dtilt ill do that one to, she needs it

*edit: one problem is that samus' dtilt is actually a vertical kill move im working on horizontal right now sorry

 

[Mr.Trite]

OK wtf, seriously, TRY IT AGAIN.

Marth, middle of FD.

You said yourself, FULLY CHARGED smashes not like it matters, DDD>Ike>Snake

DDD's kills at 17%

Ike kills at 19 or 20 I forget.

Snake kills at 23 or 24.

Really, check again. With so many people saying you're wrong, how are you still convinced that Snake's fmash is stronger than DDDs?

 

[ph00tbag]

For Zamus, you're looking in all the wrong places. Yes, fsmash will kill alright at high percentage if fully charged, but it's far from her best. Plasma Whip is alright, but if you want a horizontal killer, look at Flip Jump's kick on a grounded opponent. It KOs Mario at 124%, and does 13% damage. Furthermore, her bair KOs at 127% and does 14% damage. Even her fair KOs before Plasma Whip, and does 18% if both kicks hit.

 

[???????]

Mario's Fsmash, when fully charged and angled up, does 24% damage.

 

[litlwing]

Im not trying to pretend to be some 100% correct computer. I appreciate the critique like i said im trying to go for accuracy.

this is what i did: i made a flat stage as long as possible, turned the computer on control (so there is no DI) and from 0% i used the smashes and test subject (marth) flew accordingly NOT off the stage, I did not test these on KOs, they were on pure knock back from 0%, the results are listed, I encourage anyone to try it with my method and you will get the same Snake > DDD > Ike.....

HOWEVER......

i see the whole ddd killing at 17 % thing at final destination and upon further testing it appears that the more damage they have the knockback is boosted past other moves for certain moves and it clearly proves that the attacks are a little more technical then i had anticipated....

lol I was actually starting to think this would be the case with some moves because some moves seemed strangely weak at low % (but i didnt think it would affect all of them )

Ill be back in a day or two maybe with a more accurate means of determining all this. (if it doesnt take forever) thnx again for the bit of information. I certainly did not want to continue with out more accuarte results. but seriously anyone that sees anything wrong with anything i end up doing tell me and ill figure out what needs to be done thnx for the time.

 

[Betaz]

one quick thing I would like to say about Ike....based on where his sword hits the opponent (middle of sword, tip of sword, ect.) the trajectory of knockback changes...I'm not too sure but I believe the hilt gets the most horizontal knockback out of it...

 

[I.iZ.nO.1]

G&w ...9... Ftw