Meta Link's Metagame Thread (Informative Quotes Can Be Found in the OP)

[DarkDeity15]

Would be a lot more helpful if you provided a link. Also, without even looking at it I can already say it sounds stupidly bad and useless.

Well you can test it out before saying that lol. Ya never know. Even if it is stupidly situational, at least it's something.

Well, did you mean dtilt on the Ledge or on the stage? If it's on the stage or on a platform it will pop them up. If it's on the Ledge you won't be able to react fast enough to combo in a dair.

Yeah I was talking about onstage by the ledge (to where the opponent is poped up) or on a platform over the blast zone (i.e. offstage).

Yea I said that:

Normal dash throw works too. Dashing off doesn't work, that's a slide from platforms with extra forward momentum @ Elessar not this slide.


That was a funny accident, there's no way lol. Sadly we can't go all ninja.

Oh well lol. Though if it worked, you have to admit that it would be cool af. XD About your last post about bombslide stuff, I recommend you try out combos onstage with meteor bombs and back throw bombslide if you haven't already. I'd imagine it would be pretty damn good. Landing grabs has never been so sexy.

Any news on reverse Nair follow-ups?

 

[Dumbfire]

I expanded upon the first Tributary of Toon Link Tears (now featuring other board members for your sadistic amusement!). This one shows me (a) applying the bombslide slide-off with edgeguarding, (b) pressuring with up and reverse-fakeout bombslides and (c) using the reverse fake-out merely to slide under someone then turn around. That last one is especially notable, as I seem to be the only active user of the reverse fake-out. If you catch an airdodge you can slide a very long distance under the opponent then turn around and Fsmash / Dsmash as I did in the video. I love that reverse-fakeout, and it's not as silly as it sounds to use it only to turn around. If you hit a bomb up close the knockback will also send the opponent towards you so the reverse-fakeout will actually turn you int the right direction, which is why using the reverse-fakeout near the ledge is often best when the opponent is off-stage. Note too ledge trumping is handy for Link in combination with playing around with bombs in this way near the ledge, especially Zair trumping.

 

[Elessar]

I expanded upon the first Tributary of Toon Link Tears (now featuring other board members for your sadistic amusement!). This one shows me (a) applying the bombslide slide-off with edgeguarding, (b) pressuring with up and reverse-fakeout bombslides and (c) using the reverse fake-out merely to slide under someone then turn around. That last one is especially notable, as I seem to be the only active user of the reverse fake-out. If you catch an airdodge you can slide a very long distance under the opponent then turn around and Fsmash / Dsmash as I did in the video. I love that reverse-fakeout, and it's not as silly as it sounds to use it only to turn around. If you hit a bomb up close the knockback will also send the opponent towards you so the reverse-fakeout will actually turn you int the right direction, which is why using the reverse-fakeout near the ledge is often best when the opponent is off-stage. Note too ledge trumping is handy for Link in combination with playing around with bombs in this way near the ledge, especially Zair trumping.

Looks like I need to practice my bombslides some more.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I expanded upon the first Tributary of Toon Link Tears (now featuring other board members for your sadistic amusement!). This one shows me (a) applying the bombslide slide-off with edgeguarding, (b) pressuring with up and reverse-fakeout bombslides and (c) using the reverse fake-out merely to slide under someone then turn around. That last one is especially notable, as I seem to be the only active user of the reverse fake-out. If you catch an airdodge you can slide a very long distance under the opponent then turn around and Fsmash / Dsmash as I did in the video. I love that reverse-fakeout, and it's not as silly as it sounds to use it only to turn around. If you hit a bomb up close the knockback will also send the opponent towards you so the reverse-fakeout will actually turn you int the right direction, which is why using the reverse-fakeout near the ledge is often best when the opponent is off-stage. Note too ledge trumping is handy for Link in combination with playing around with bombs in this way near the ledge, especially Zair trumping.

Holy **** though!!!
@everyone: Here's the link to the video so you can like it https://youtu.be/raSd_0VGppA.
I'm adding this to the AT thread. It's ****ing 2:10 am here with everyone else asleep in the house and it took inhuman strength to suppress my hype and avoid waking everyone up.

 

[DarkDeity15]

I expanded upon the first Tributary of Toon Link Tears (now featuring other board members for your sadistic amusement!). This one shows me (a) applying the bombslide slide-off with edgeguarding, (b) pressuring with up and reverse-fakeout bombslides and (c) using the reverse fake-out merely to slide under someone then turn around. That last one is especially notable, as I seem to be the only active user of the reverse fake-out. If you catch an airdodge you can slide a very long distance under the opponent then turn around and Fsmash / Dsmash as I did in the video. I love that reverse-fakeout, and it's not as silly as it sounds to use it only to turn around. If you hit a bomb up close the knockback will also send the opponent towards you so the reverse-fakeout will actually turn you int the right direction, which is why using the reverse-fakeout near the ledge is often best when the opponent is off-stage. Note too ledge trumping is handy for Link in combination with playing around with bombs in this way near the ledge, especially Zair trumping.

This looks absolutely godlike. I'm definitely putting this to good use tomorrow lol. And with meteor bombs?

 

[A2ZOMG]

So, I couldn't find anyone mentioning this. B-air -> aerial Up-B is a combo up til like...40% or so on most characters. Wasn't super thorough, but from what I can tell this is pretty easy to hit confirm and it's a quick 22%, so it should be done more in real games.

Not very good option if you're trying to space B-air really conservatively. This is best in punish or anti-air situations where you know you aren't risking much pressing with forward momentum. Now if only Link could true combo into B-air out of D-throw...

 

[DUKEL]

You're the first person to put that much thought into it, but it was known.

A pretty solid option that I just thought of is ledge trump > bair > turnaround Up-B - which can kill very early, especially combined with rage. But as it would be a suicide kill, should be saved for the final stock.

Now if only Link could true combo into B-air out of D-throw...

If we could combo all that out of D-throw... Sakurai would probably give Link the Diddy treatment due to crying scrubs. If it wasn't for that, I would love the thought. But, Link's already been nerfed enough - I'm glad it doesn't combo out of D-throw.
Edit:

This looks absolutely godlike. I'm definitely putting this to good use tomorrow lol. And with meteor bombs?

With meteor bombs, you lose the option of doing the bombslide getoff > bomb upthrow > Up-B as an edge guard. Remember that. You'll end up killing yourself if you aren't careful. Heck with meteor bombs you lose a lot of options, and get a significant chunk sawn off your recovery. Don't get me wrong, I used to love meteor bombs. I also loved his recovery up-b (which I'd like to point out that Sakurai didn't give a windbox to?). But then I started playing Link competitively, and I noticed the uses of the regular bomb far outweighed the meteor. Safe offstage gimping, a larger explosion, a better recovery, and a longer fuse (which lets me mixup my bomb throwing options) are all reasons for me to never use the meteor bombs. So unless you can find some revolutionary new combo that completely revamps how good Link is onstage, I'm very skeptical on its actual, game based, uses. Keep messing around with them though. Impress me. Show all of us that your love for the meteor bombs isn't unfounded. But until then, I'm going to keep using the bombs that actually let me go offstage.

 

[PKBeam]

hoo hah got nerfed because it killed too early.
comboes that rack damage generally won't get touched.

 

[A2ZOMG]

You're the first person to put that much thought into it, but it was known.

A pretty solid option that I just thought of is ledge trump > bair > turnaround Up-B - which can kill very early, especially combined with rage. But as it would be a suicide kill, should be saved for the final stock.

If we could combo all that out of D-throw... Sakurai would probably give Link the Diddy treatment due to crying scrubs. If it wasn't for that, I would love the thought. But, Link's already been nerfed enough - I'm glad it doesn't combo out of D-throw.
Edit:

With meteor bombs, you lose the option of doing the bombslide getoff > bomb upthrow > Up-B as an edge guard. Remember that. You'll end up killing yourself if you aren't careful. Heck with meteor bombs you lose a lot of options, and get a significant chunk sawn off your recovery. Don't get me wrong, I used to love meteor bombs. I also loved his recovery up-b (which I'd like to point out that Sakurai didn't give a windbox to?). But then I started playing Link competitively, and I noticed the uses of the regular bomb far outweighed the meteor. Safe offstage gimping, a larger explosion, a better recovery, and a longer fuse (which lets me mixup my bomb throwing options) are all reasons for me to never use the meteor bombs. So unless you can find some revolutionary new combo that completely revamps how good Link is onstage, I'm very skeptical on its actual, game based, uses. Keep messing around with them though. Impress me. Show all of us that your love for the meteor bombs isn't unfounded. But until then, I'm going to keep using the bombs that actually let me go offstage.

I actually didn't try this for trumps, but maybe on a small blastzone like Halberd it could cheese. However it doesn't have to be a suicide trump option. You can pull backwards pretty far once you link into the UpB.

 

[Zane the pure]

I actually didn't try this for trumps, but maybe on a small blastzone like Halberd it could cheese. However it doesn't have to be a suicide trump option. You can pull backwards pretty far once you link into the UpB.

You would just need to make sure you have the% to kill from that range since you'll be slightly further back for doing so.

 

[Knife8193]

Hey guys, I'm bumping my previous post on combos since it was left a page back. I'd also like some of your inputs on how I should go on to further test these as well as point out any combos/strings I may have missed. My current plan is to have a friend later tonight test these true combos out and make sure they really are true with Mario, Jigglypuff, and Fox (which I feel is a decent representation of the roster's various characteristics). I have not included jab combos yet as I feel like there are a lot of them and don't really want to double work by trying on a CPU then a human. Otherwise to my knowledge, these are all the combos Link has to offer.

----

Well, here goes. I decided not to format it like the Greninja combo thread since so many of Links combos work differently on different characters and for simplicity. For the true combos, I'm testing these on training mode Mario and seeing if the combo meter registers them as combos (though some true combos are not registered for some reason). Most fast fallers and big characters are susceptible to most of these combos at higher percents than listed. Please note the 3 major variable that affect combo % windows such as rage (shrinks the window), stale moves (increase the window, but combos do less % than they normally do), and of course the opponent's character. These moves are tested with a no rage Link without stale moves.

Blue means the combo is a true combo at most percents and cannot be escaped by the opponent once the initial hit is landed.

Green means the combo is almost guaranteed, but can be interrupted by the opponent. Some can be true combos at certain percents, but the window is much smaller than blue combos.

Yellow denotes combos that rely on hard reads and none are guaranteed. You need to anticipate an opponent's behavior (such as airdodging, shielding, jabbing, throwing out an aerial) to make these work.

Spoiler: Projectile Combos

Bomb throw > almost any attack (% damage varies)

Let's get the most obvious and important one out of the way. Most Link mains should know that a bomb throw leads into lots of attacks. The explosion has a lot of hitstun and Link does not get hurt by the explosion if it hit the opponent. The bomb sends opponents at a 70 degree angle away from the side they got hit by the bomb. First of all, there are many ways to throw the bomb to initiate this combo. JCT and Bombsliding are good options when grounded. However, bomb combos also work in the air. For example, you can down throw a bomb and footstool the opponent while they're in hitstun from the bomb. You can also up throw a bomb into an upair. If you can catch someone off guard near the ledge, you can actually JCT a bomb at them and immediately follow up with a Dair spike, but this is extremely difficult to land.

It's tough to be more specific with this because of the many combo possibilities, but bomb combos are definitely something you need to learn. Although your follow ups change based on how much damage the opponent has, you should most likely be able to chain something if you threw the bomb close enough to them and you're quick enough. Although you can of course try your own bomb combos, I recommend the following:

Forward throw > Fsmash (24%) - Does the most damage out of any two attack bomb combo, but only works at low percents.

Forward throw > Ftilt (18%) - This starts to be the more reliable option once the opponent is at mid percents.

Forward throw > Fair (13%) - At some point, the bomb will still knock them high enough that Ftilt will no longer reach them. Fair one is a good option at this point, but you can also try to Uair if you notice the opponent is DIing back towards you.

Forward throw > Aerial Spin Attack (19%) - After throwing a bomb, run up to an opponent, jump and immediately Up-B. Great kill setup at higher percents.

Up throw > Up-air (20%) - Only works at low percents, throw a bomb straight up and link Uair right after the explosion.

Down throw > FF Nair (11%) - A good anti-juggle option if you happen to have a bomb in your hand or if you want to approach from above. If you have good timing, you can try to dthrow > Dair, but it is risky if the initial down throw missed.

Gale Boomerang > Fair (15% if only Fair 1 hits, 25% if both Fair 1 and Fair 2 hit)

Throw the Gale Boomerang at point blank range and immediate shorthop or fullhop and Fair. The boomerang must be thrown at almost point blank range (although not too close or it will whiff) and the strong hit (the one that does 7% and send the opponent at a more upward angle) must be landed. This works until fairly high %, on Mario it true combos until around 90%. Most of the time you will only be landing Fair 1, but at lower % you can also get Fair 2 to hit. Why even use the Gale Boomerang over the custom regular boomerang if you're not taking advantage of this combo?

Gale Boomerang > Aerial Spin Attack (9%-21% depending on how many hits from Spin Attack land)

Throw the Gale Boomerang at point blank range and immediate shorthop or fullhop and Up-B. The boomerang must be thrown at almost point blank range (although not too close or it will whiff) and the strong hit (the one that does 7% and send the opponent at a more upward angle) must be landed. This works until fairly high %, on Mario it true combos until around 100%. To be honest, Gale Boomerang > Fair is a much more reliable combo and there isn't much reason to use this because of how unreliable the hits can be sometimes. It won't really kill near its max true combo %, so its not a kill setup either, although one advantage it has over the Fair counterpart is that it sends them higher and potentially start a juggle.

Spoiler: Tilt Combos

Dtilt > Fair (18% if only Fair 1 hits, 30% if both Fair 1 and Fair 2 hit)

After landing a Dtilt, immediately fullhop and Fair. You have to be very quick with this, otherwise the opponent can escape after the Dtilt. You are most likely going to only get Fair 1 as a follow up, but a very low percents, you can land Fair 2 as well. This is a true combo until around 30%. Very solid combo, better used near the ledge for a possible edgeguarding opportunity.

Dtilt > Uair (27%)

After landing a Dtilt, chase the opponent and immediately short hop or full hop depending the opponent's % and Uair. Again, need to be very quick with this otherwise the opponent can escape. This is a true combo until around 69%. In most cases, this combo is superior to Dtilt > Fair because of the damage, large % window, and juggle opportunity. Dtilt > Fair might be better when used near the ledge on characters with bad recovery options, but obviously very situational.

Utilt > Utilt (18%)

Pretty simple utilt juggle and fairly safe. It is not a true combo and the likelyhood of comboing the second hit is very dependent on the character and their %. Certain characters can fast fall shield at really low percents, some can jump out before the second hit (although you might be able to catch their second jump), and a few can even throw out an aerial to interrupt it mid combo. It is not recommended to do more than 2 Utilts in a row, instead go for an Up-smash or Uair to follow up.

Utilt > Up-smash (27%)

After a Utilt at low percents, you have the option to follow up with an Up-smash. It is more punishable than a missed Utilt > Utilt, but the reward is greater. Not recommended once the opponent is at higher %.

Utilt > Uair (24%)
After a Utilt, chase the opponent with either a shorthop Uair or a fullhop Uair depending on their percent. Only works at mid percents when Utilt starts knocking them high enough where a second Utilt or Up-smash won't connect. This is somewhat easy to land, not very punishable, and a lot of characters are put in a bad position where they either have to airdodge or use their double jump to escape. You also have the option of stalling the Uair so that you can catch their airdodge or follow the opponent's double jump direction.

Spoiler: Aerial Combos

Sourspot Dair > Dair Bounce > Uair (23% or 38% with Uair)

Very hard to land combo and only works at low %, but it is a true combo if hit correctly. A lot of you may have "accidentally" done the first part of the combo, which is essentially using the sourspot Dair (which only appears after the Dair spike and the strong hit Dair hitboxes go away) to bounce into another dair following their hitstun direction, which ultimately leads to an Uair. At higher percents, the sourspot Dair knocks the opponent high enough that the bounced Dair won't land.

This combo is weird in that it actually works better on floaties. Fast fallers tend to be able to escape the bounced Dair. Big characters are especially vulnerable to this. It is a 3 hit true combo on Mario around 20%. Uair can sometimes be missed, but for the most part it is a reliable finisher.

Fair 1 > Dtilt (20%)

Fair 1 at a grounded opponent either by fullhopping or shorthopping towards them and immediately follow up with a Dtilt. It is important to land Fair close to the hilt so that the Dtilt can reach the opponent better. Has a very small true combo window (from about 31% to 41% on Mario), but it can be a good mixup. It is possible to string a Uair after the Dtilt for a 35% combo.

Fair 1 > D-smash (22%)

Much bigger true combo window than Dair > Dtilt, the concept is the same, hit the grounded opponent with Fair 1 and immediately D-smash. True combos on Mario between 16% to 41%. During the later %, you need to stall the D-smash a little to land it and it will still be a true combo, although the charge time is so small it will not add any % to the combo. It is also very safe on whiff since it has good shield push and can hit an opponent rolling behind you.

Fair 1 > Jab (18%)

Of the Fair 1 combos, this has the biggest true combo window although not by much. Hit a grounded opponent with Fair 1 and immediately jab. True combos Mario from 12% to 41%. At later %, the jab will be very spaced out which means Jab 2 will whiff though Jab 3 may still hit, reducing the combo damage by 3%. At lower %, it is possible to jab cancel into other attacks, increasing the damage potential.

FF Sourspot Nair > Jab (16%)

Fast fall and Nair onto a grounded opponent and immediately jab. Of the aerial combos, this combo requires the least amount of precision and is fairly easy to land. This only works at lower %, since the opponent will eventually be knocked out of jab range. It is not a true combo since the opponent can shield the jab, however it does catch a lot of people off guard.

FF Sourspot Nair > Dash Attack (20%)

Fast fall and Nair onto a grounded opponent and immediately Dash Attack towards them. This only works at high percents where the opponent will begin to do their tumble animation. Mario begins his tumble animation when he gets hit by a FF Nair at 78%. In order to land the Dash Attack, the opponent needs to miss their tech upon landing (which can be sometimes difficult seeing as there isn't a huge time window between getting hit by Nair and landing). It is surprisingly safe though, even if the opponent does tech roll, they most likely won't be able to react in time to punish your Dash Attack. Can also be a good kill setup at very high %, but you will need to dash farther in order to land the Dash Attack, giving the opponent more time to react. If the FF Nair throws the opponent offstage, but close enough to the ledge, you can possibly land a Dash Attack at the edge.

Bair > Bair (16%)

Either full hop or short hop towards an aerial or grounded opponent and hit them with a bair, immediately using your double jump to bair again. This is a true combo from 0% to around 50%. As you reach higher %, Bair 1 from the second Bair may whiff but Bair 2 will still land. Short hopping as opposed to full hopping makes this easier to pull off. Great when combined with RAR.

Bair > Reverse Spin Attack (22%)

Trap an opponent in both hits of a Bair and immediately Reverse Spin Attack after Bair 2. A true combo from 0% to 30% on Mario. Technically you can still true combo between 30% to around 50%, but you need to have good initial horizontal air speed to pull that off. It isn't worth trying at those % because whiffing a Spin Attack can lead to a big punish.

Bair 1 > Some grounded attacks

Bair 1 links to some grounded attacks and all will be mentioned under this section. In order to do this, simply land Bair 1 on a grounded opponent and it will auto cancel upon landing, giving you an opportunity to follow up with another attack. These are not listed as true combos in training mode, but they are inescapable if done correctly. This combo also works at any % since Bair has set knockback. Grounded attack that can combo from Bair 1 include:

Bair 1 > Pivot Jab (13%) - Simply pivot and jab after landing Bair 1. Potential damage can increase if you jab cancel.

Bair 1 > Pivot D-smash (17%-20%) - After landing Bair 1, pivot and D-smash. Damage varies slightly based on whether you hit the sweetspot or not. Good vertical kill potential.

Bair 1 > Pivot Utilt (13%) - After landing Bair 1, pivot and Utilt. Most reliable Bair 1 combo since you may still hit an opponent if you failed to pivot and still not too punishable on whiff. Decent vertical kill potential.

Bair 1 > Reverse Grounded Spin Attack (17%) - After landing Bair 1, immediately B Reverse Spin Attack. Very good horizontal kill potential, but failing to B Reverse can lead to huge punishment although you can still catch opponents in the back hit.

There are other grounded attack that seem to work like Ftilt and U-smash, but those are not true combos.

Zair > Grounded attack

Shorthop Zair towards an opponent, immediately following up with an attack upon landing. Works best when the second hitbox of Zair lands and you DI towards the opponent after landing it. Damage varies based on which hitboxes of zair hit. Nothing is guaranteed, although some very good mixups can come out of this. Some good examples include:

Zair > Jab (12%-16%) - If you expect the opponent to dash grab or dash attack at you, this is a good option.

Zair > Grab (9%-13%) - If you expect the opponent to shield upon landing, you can grab them. Sometime the zair spaces them out too far, in which case it is not recommended.

Zair > F-smash (21%-25%) - If you expect the opponent to spotdodge upon landing, go for a F-smash. Has good range, so if you read their spotdodge wrong and they shield, you should be safe.

Zair >D-smash (15%-19%) - If you expect an opponent to roll behind you upon landing, go for a D-smash. Also safe because of shield push and catching rolls.

Spoiler: Throw Combos

Up-throw > Utilt on Fox (16%)

Grab Fox, Up-throw, an immediately Utilt. This only works on Fox from 0% to 13% (due to him have a significantly faster fall speed than the rest of the cast) therefore this is an extremely situational combo, although it isn't a bad way to start out a stock against a tough MU. Can potentially start juggles.

Down-throw > Attack

Down-throw never true combos into anything, but you can start a string if you can read your opponents habits. Most of these strings no longer work once down-throw starts knocking opponents away too far, but you can still rack up quite a bit of damage at earlier %. The only way they can avoid a read completely is if they double jump away, which often times creates an advantageous position for Link.

Down-throw > Up air (20%-22% depending on if Uair sweetspots) - If you notice the opponent likes to double jump behind you after a down throw, just fullhop and Uair to catch their double jump.

Down-throw > Forward Smash (26%) - If you are at very low % and you notice the opponent likes to airdodge after a throw, forward smash in their direction.

Down-throw > Spin Attack (21%) - Same concept as above, but forward smash won't reach anymore at mid %. After throwing the opponent, chase the opponent, read their airdodge, and Spin Attack. If you notice the opponent likes to throw out an aerial instead of airdodging simply run up, shield their aerial, and Up-B/Up Smash/Grab out of shield.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Small correction: Dthrow true combos into Jab on Fox at 0.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Besides the bit of cool-down it has in the air, Fair is pretty godlike. Not only does it have very low landlag and good range allowing us to use it as an effective spacing tool, but the 2 hits are very damaging and the first swing is safe on shield. It's such a good move.

 

[Rizen]

Fair's good for SHing over an opponent's attack and landing the 2nd swing.

 

[Dumbfire]

Posting the third Tributary of Toon Link Tears, the Institute of Advanced Link Edgeguarding, here too:

Link has a versatile toolset for gimping, really versatile. Adding trumps and especially zair trumps will enhance your game a lot. I don't even show Zair gimps. + Note getting under the opponent with Uair offstage gives you a huge hitbox that catches airdodges and kills pretty early when it's not too stale or if you have rage.

 

[Rizen]

Can Link do this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBf6fmB7rkY

 

[Elessar]

Can Link do this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBf6fmB7rkY

Considering that she can do it thanks to/due to a custom move, I don't think Link would be capable. We could still lab it, but it looks doubtful.

 

[FSK]

Now that I've finally acquired Link's customs I went ahead and labbed them a bit. I want to make small vid about the stuff I found, just need to figure out how to do it.

 

[Rizen]

^Customs take forever to unlock, don't they ? I think Link gets better with quickfire arrows and the non-wind boomerang. He doesn't get absurd jank like some characters but he is more balanced with customs.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I read something very interesting today. http://smashboards.com/threads/mechanics-techniques-discussion.368206/page-32#post-19359504
This would explain for example why really well spaced F-tilts can be safe even on powershields. The powershielding opponent can't dash in to cover the distance between them and us any sooner than they normally would even though they powershielded.

 

[Rizen]

I read something very interesting today. http://smashboards.com/threads/mechanics-techniques-discussion.368206/page-32#post-19359504
This would explain for example why really well spaced F-tilts can be safe even on powershields. The powershielding opponent can't dash in to cover the distance between them and us any sooner than they normally would even though they powershielded.

That's good for Link considering how shields wreck him.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Oh, and I forgot to mention.

Can Link do this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBf6fmB7rkY

If you think about the way this tech works, there's no way for Link to be able to do it. It requires you to grab the ledge on the same frame (or perhaps like 1 frame after) turning around. I messed with something similar back in brawl with being able to turn around in Fox's reflector, and if you turned around at the same time as getting grabbed or command grabbed, silly things would happen like being held backwards and CF/Ganon switching places with Fox momentarily in the air etc. The problem is that I can't think of any way whatsoever that Link can turn around and grab the ledge at the same time, so I don't think he can do it.

 

[FSK]

Alright so the video about customs is up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2u9z1fFl7c

First part is a comparison between some of the customs and if you don't want to watch that you can skip to 2 minutes 50 seconds. In the second part I try to show some nifty things you can do. I've tested most of it on several characters including Sheik, Diddy, Marth and DK and it works on them as well. Although the multiple arrow locks only works on the bigger chars. I used bowser in the video since it's just easiest do everything on him. I can write some more details later if you guys want.

edit: oh and I know that most of this is probably already known, but at least theres a vid of it now :$

 

[Rizen]

@ FSK what do you think of meteor bombs? The quick fire arrows and non-gale boomerang seem like better choices than the normal versions but I'm on the fence about meteor bombs for certain MUs. Normal bombs generally seem better.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

If soft-throws ever get patched out I'm going to attempt to get used to meteor bombs.

 

[FSK]

@ FSK what do you think of meteor bombs? The quick fire arrows and non-gale boomerang seem like better choices than the normal versions but I'm on the fence about meteor bombs for certain MUs. Normal bombs generally seem better.

As of now I prefer vanilla Link, but I have to do some more testing before I make up my mind about meteor bombs and non-gale boomerang.

 

[Dumbfire]

Right, I have me abusing the reverse fake-out bombslide like crazy, here's some more implementations of it. Look here (8 second mark) for how useful it is to have your back to the opponent for Bair, which is a better pressuring move than Fair and more versatile. Btw, yes it links into Bair easily when hit, and double Bair is very feasible. Then here is the use (1min 52 seconds) for turning around when anticipating, immediately followed by perhaps the best use: tech chasing. Notice how, by standing moderate distance away from him then using the reverse fake-out, I easily cover all get-up options. The bomb hits his get-up attack, roll away or normal get-up almost all the time, then I'm turned around in case he rolls towards me: I do that all the time.

A last use which I should get some footage of, is in my spam game. I tend to soft throw at least one bomb, then throw a second one with the reverse fake-out closer to that one. While turned around, the entire slide you can pick up that other bomb, which you can then easily JCT again towards him (i.e. another soft thrown bomb). Plus if the opponent tries to jump over the soft thrown bomb I am in a better position to hit him with Utilt.

I can't get enough of the reverse fake-out...

 

[DarkDeity15]

Right, I have me abusing the reverse fake-out bombslide like crazy, here's some more implementations of it. Look here (8 second mark) for how useful it is to have your back to the opponent for Bair, which is a better pressuring move than Fair and more versatile. Btw, yes it links into Bair easily when hit, and double Bair is very feasible. Then here is the use (1min 52 seconds) for turning around when anticipating, immediately followed by perhaps the best use: tech chasing. Notice how, by standing moderate distance away from him then using the reverse fake-out, I easily cover all get-up options. The bomb hits his get-up attack, roll away or normal get-up almost all the time, then I'm turned around in case he rolls towards me: I do that all the time.

A last use which I should get some footage of, is in my spam game. I tend to soft throw at least one bomb, then throw a second one with the reverse fake-out closer to that one. While turned around, the entire slide you can pick up that other bomb, which you can then easily JCT again towards him (i.e. another soft thrown bomb). Plus if the opponent tries to jump over the soft thrown bomb I am in a better position to hit him with Utilt.

I can't get enough of the reverse fake-out...

Don't get too close to bombslides though. It's likely to be removed as it's been said many times before.

Anyone up for discussion on Nair locking? There doesn't seem to be anything under it in the OP, so why not?

As far as I can tell, there are three ways to start Nair locks.

1. Simply catch a missed tech on the ground with Nair.

2. Foot stool someone above the ground (since you cannot tech a footstool).

3. Hit someone directly off of a platform. When they fall off, you can tell you landed it correctly if your opponent goes into a tumble animation. If they don't act before hitting the ground, they will prat fall and won't be able to tech.

Nair locking has a lot of potential. If we can manage to perform these at least somewhat consistently, it could help us a load.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Anyone up for discussion on Nair locking? There doesn't seem to be anything under it in the OP, so why not?

I never got up to any discussion on it. The OP is still a major work in progress that I haven't had time for. When will I have time? Soon.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Watching Zero's vid on shield dropping made me realize that even though shield dropping is considerably harder to do consistently in Sm4sh compared to previous games, it has a lot of potential with Link. This is because when you shield drop you completely skip the 7 frames of lag you would normally go through before your shield goes away while at the same time making us go airborne. This in turn (obviously) allows us to act immediately out of shield with any given aerial option. This could prove to be especially useful against rushdown characters, since we can effectively escape pressure when we're on a platform by either punishing the opponent or retreating.

I'd also imagine shield dropping combined with bombs, aerial spin attacks and Zairs being especially good with their extended range, making punishes a lot more reliable even if your opponent is greatly skilled at spacing their aerials. Uair can also be godlike if an opponent lands on the platform you shield dropped from or if they are in range. On top of all this, if done consistently I can also see people being forced to respect us while we are standing on a platform, putting us in a relatively comfortable position. Shield drops could be a crazy effective defensive tool for us on stages with platforms.

Please test my theories out for yourselves when you can, cuz I'm not able to.

 

[Nimious]

Don't get too close to bombslides though. It's likely to be removed as it's been said many times before.

I'd just quit Link if that happened.

Jab cancels was tough enough but Sakurai clearly lost his mind nerfing even Dtilt. If bombsliding is gone, I'm done, just done.

 

[Drigo Toes]

Okay, so...

I have A LOT of problems to do the f*** reverse bombslide. BUT, it is indeed possible to do a Z-air Trump with normal Bombslide (even with Dash Throw Bomb). Just turn around before getting the bomb.

Here is an example:

https://youtu.be/ExcEcwuUFsE

If Sakurai patch the bombslide, we can still do Zair trump from the stage : D

 

[Dumbfire]

^That's great to know!

Here's the second Institute of Advenced Link Edgeguarding, featuring @ FSK and his favorite band Girlschool.

There are remarkable opportunities for run-off Dair spikes, you know! I should mention I've been doing ledge trump to Dair spike a little recently and hitting it is the most satisfying thing in the world too.

 

[link7]

^That's great to know!

Here's the second Institute of Advenced Link Edgeguarding, featuring @ FSK and his favorite band Girlschool.

There are remarkable opportunities for run-off Dair spikes, you know! I should mention I've been doing ledge trump to Dair spike a little recently and hitting it is the most satisfying thing in the world too.

I lost it when that Bowser rage quit.

@ Fox Is Openly Deceptive Here's something to add to the OP about bombs. They completely destroy Ryu's Hadouken. Go right through them.

 

[8MAN]

Thanks to the Dtilt buff, it's now possible to Dtilt > Dair Spike at mid percents near the ledge, which will be a great option for setting up an edgeguard opputunity.

Edit: Tested on Mario at 30-50%, Dtilt > Double Jump Dair Spike.
At 50% it kills, but it's pretty hard to land.
40% kills as well, but against characters with good recoveries, it most likely won't.
30% is much easier, but won't kill, however it'll set up a really good edge guard oppurtunity
On Fox works up to 20%, but doesn't kill him, but leaves another edgeguard oppurtunity
On Bowser it works from 30-40%, doesn't kill.
Doesn't work on Jigglypuff.

 

[Lawz.]

I lost it when that Bowser rage quit.

@ Fox Is Openly Deceptive Here's something to add to the OP about bombs. They completely destroy Ryu's Hadouken. Go right through them.

If Ryu holds down the button, fireball makes the bomb explode.

EDIT: Bomb goes clean through Shakunetsu (red fireball). By clean through I mean it literally passes through and the fireball continues flying toward you.

 

[link7]

If Ryu holds down the button, fireball makes the bomb explode.

EDIT: Bomb goes clean through Shakunetsu (red fireball). By clean through I mean it literally passes through and the fireball continues flying toward you.

There's more than one type of fireball? Whoa.
So regular, non-charged, blue fireball is canceled completely, and bomb keeps going.
Red Fireball, bomb goes through, but so does fireball. How long does it take to charge?

 

[Lawz.]

There's more than one type of fireball? Whoa.
So regular, non-charged, blue fireball is canceled completely, and bomb keeps going.
Red Fireball, bomb goes through, but so does fireball. How long does it take to charge?

Charge time is barely noticeable at all. It's literally a few frames.

Bomb will beat fireball if they tap b, while holding b, fireball will cause the bomb to blow up but the fireball will also disappear. Red fireball, whether fully charged or not, will cause the projectiles to simply pass through each other.

 

[DUKEL]

Charge time is barely noticeable at all. It's literally a few frames.

Bomb will beat fireball if they tap b, while holding b, fireball will cause the bomb to blow up but the fireball will also disappear. Red fireball, whether fully charged or not, will cause the projectiles to simply pass through each other.

Our hylian shield blocks both blue variations, and the red one too, i believe. But it was a multi-hit, so I might have only been at the end of the attack and it didn't go far enough.

 

[deadclown]

Now that we have an improved grab game and a reliable Usmash, I was hoping to see an updated list of combos and strings available to the hero of Hyrule. Anybody have one yet?

I'm happy to help compile one, though I'm having trouble finding a pre-1.08 list that I know is valid. I went through the stickied posts, but what I found was limited or fragmented.

Can anybody help out a bit?

Still valid: (if anybody lists some below, I'll add them here)
- forward bomb -> dash attack
- jab 1-2-3
- upward bomb -> uthrow

As for 1.08, the strings I've read about so far boil down to:

dthrow -> Usmash
dthrow -> utilt
dthrow -> hop Uair

Please forgive me if I'm posting wrong somehow; I've been a lurker, but I'm new around here.