Link's Match-up Thread: Ryu would like an answer to a question.

[Delta-cod]

From a Yoshi's main perspective, I'd leave it at 60:40 Yoshi. But these are your boards.

The CG wasn't discussed much because we all agreed early on that it hurt Link pretty badly.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

^
I agree with 60:40 Yoshi.

this is looking like it's winding down so of, Olimar, Luigi, Bowser, Mario, who do you want covered?

 

[Huggles828]

K, updated the chart. Thanks to all the Yoshi mains who gave good discussion!
We have discussed Weegee, we just need to pick a matchup ratio. I think we have an easier time with Bowser and a harder time with Olimar. I'd say Olimar first since he's so hard to get in and attack.

 

[Poltergust]

Remember when people thought this match-up was actually in Link's favor? I wonder what made us think that... XD

 

[Delta-cod]

A lot of theory craft, or something.

 

[Rizen]

I say Olimar next.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Remember when people thought this match-up was actually in Link's favor? I wonder what made us think that... XD

What Delta said...that and the few people who play yoshi forget he has a CG on Link. :/

Olimar it is...and I hate this MU as Link.

 

[Rizen]

Olimar it is...and I hate this MU as Link.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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One thing to remember is Olimar cannot grab if the opponent is considered in the air; Link has a hit bubble by his hand that grabs out of the air, Olimar has only the pikmin grab hit bubble. OoS SHs are the best option.
Red pikmin can detonate bombs so Link can't hold them long.
Olimar's pikmin chain is an annoyingly effective anti-air move that shoots 45 degrees upward. He's very small too, so Zair's hard to land without being grabbed.
If wind moves pikmin, it might be smarter to use soft boomerang throws as a 'shield' to help arrow/bomb spamming.
Nair penetrates Olimar's Usmash but not Uair.
Edgehogging will make the pik-chain miss the edge even if it hits Link, with Zair tether hogging that won't be a problem.

Olimar's extremely hard. Link wins spamming from far but not medium range or closer. Attacks kill thrown and de-synced pikmin.
I can't can't think of a solid strategy.

 

[Scabe]

How the **** do you fight Olimar?!

 

[Browny]

I was thinking... if when you knock oli offstage you throw a gale boomerang on stage such that it comes back while you go for the edgehog, you could use that to push oli back offstage if he uses his upb to get enough of a jump to land on the ledge. does the boomerang retain its windbox properties once it returns past where link threw it from?

probably situational but it would be a certain KO if it works lol.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I was thinking... if when you knock oli offstage you throw a gale boomerang on stage such that it comes back while you go for the edgehog, you could use that to push oli back offstage if he uses his upb to get enough of a jump to land on the ledge. does the boomerang retain its windbox properties once it returns past where link threw it from?

probably situational but it would be a certain KO if it works lol.

That would be gale guarding, and yes it does.

Still the MU is pretty bad even if we had a gimp answer to him, approaching Olimar sucks.

 

[Huggles828]

I was thinking... if when you knock oli offstage you throw a gale boomerang on stage such that it comes back while you go for the edgehog, you could use that to push oli back offstage if he uses his upb to get enough of a jump to land on the ledge. does the boomerang retain its windbox properties once it returns past where link threw it from?

probably situational but it would be a certain KO if it works lol.

There's Gale Guarding.

Seriously, I have a ton of trouble with Olimar no matter who I play as. If Olimar has a purple pikmin as the front Pikmin, he CAN knock you off the edge and grab it at the same time. Whistle gives him super armor. A lot of his attacks send you at a low angle with startingly high knockback but are still just high enough to make it hard to whiplash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlJLgtaMMuw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sGyAsZuJbY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uycsszwvn88

Olimar outcamps us and is hard to approach. He dies early but he racks up damage crazy fast and it's hard to even get a hit on him.

 

[IYM!]

olimar is one of our worst MU, he have a lots of things than can punish us, the only real problem of olimar is his recovery, is bad, he depends of a ledge, so when he try to recover you must grab the ledge first, isint very hard, only need the right timing.Gimp him is our only chance to get a good adventage inthe match.

our spaming can stop his spam (at least would be more dificult for him hit us with a pikmin), and how a last card we have our Zair( the Zair of Link is better than Samus Zair when we need hit small characters)

i dont know if he have good or bad DI, but, whether good or bad, his light weight can be a desventage for him.

about stages, well, i thing about norfair how a stage than will give more adventages to olimar, the "V" form of the stage give to Olimar a perfect angle to throws his pikmins, and the 3 ledges in each sides, can help his recovery.

if is legal in your region, pick PT, the platform than carry us around DONT HAVE LEDGES , and if he cant land at the platforms, the impact with the road will kill all his pikmin, and give him a big amoun of damage. Also, the F-ZERO machines have a great kill power, some machines have more kill power than others, but anyone to hit olimar will kill him.

also Jungles japes is good agains he. If he touch the water, he can say good bye to all his pikmin (to exeption to his blue pikmin) with out pikmin we would gimp him easier.

 

[quirkynature]

Olimar and Fox are the two characters I absolutely hate going up against.

Olimar is hard to approach and get away from. His Pikmin are excellent projectiles and can latch on and do great damage when not taken care of. He's a short and light character, so Z-air is tough to pull off and he doesn't combo well. He's got high jumps but his Pikmin chain can be gimped easily. Most of the times, though, he doesn't need to use it.

The real problem I face with Olimar is the bomb pull animation. Each time I pull out a bomb, it costs me about 20% damage simply because I didn't jump high enough or he wasn't far enough (across the stage ain't enough lol). Landing a hit on the guy is difficult, too, because of the sheer interruption capability, and, well, he's faster overall.

I'd give this MU 60:40 Olimar.

XD

 

[Rizen]

Good counters, like IYM! said are Port Town and JJapes. RCruse is usually legal and gives Link a spam and gimp boost. Brinstar is good because it doesn't force Link to approach and support's Link's recovery/survival and not Olimar's.
FD's the best started so Olimar will ban it. Smashville should be Link's first ban.

'Gale' wind can push too (at the end of traveling out) and isn't canceled like the attack stage of Link's boomerang. Soft throws spaced to use wind seem like a better use of the boomerang. I, or someone, should look into this.

30-70 or 35-65 Olimar.

 

[IYM!]

RCruse is usually legal and gives Link a spam and gimp boost.

but we also have bad recovery, and Olimar have more things usefull to gimp us in RC

in Jungles japes, if we are in the water, our spink attack will get out of there quikly, making to olimar a bad time try ti gimp us

and PT, if we dont grab the ledge of the central platform, the road will hit us, but with one spin attack, we will safe. this stage also gives olimar a dificult time to gimp us

 

[Huggles828]

RC has no edges for Olimar to grab onto after the boat, so his recovery is also terrible in RC. This definitely isn't a run of the mill matchup for Link; I agree with Rizen on the 30-70 or 35-65 aspect. I dunno if I have as much trouble against Olimar (as Link) as I do against say Fox or ROB, but it's close.

Have we contacted the Olimar boards about discussing this matchup yet?

 

[Dnyce]

Olimar ***** Link: Fact.

You asked for our help

 

[IYM!]

Olimar ***** Link: Fact.

You asked for our help

this is a dificult MU for Link, but will be nice if you can help us to know things about Olimar

 

[Blissard]

Olimar ***** Link: Fact.

You asked for our help

The above quote is win.

Uh......Link fails against Oli. His bombs f***ing explode on himself when he's latched (particularly reds >_>), his camping game fails against Olimar, and his weight makes it so that he'll get grabbed...alot. His attacks to get off latched Pikmin are unreliable and sluggish, and easily give Oli a chance to grab and **** Link some more. His CP's against Oli all suck too.

So...Link will probably die in the MU. From what I've heard, you should be using zair here alot and take note of latched Pikmin. Make sure you know how to DI, because Link's heavy weight also makes him very hard for Oli to KO. Link can also KO Oli easy because of the astronaut's low weight Spam s*** at Oli when he's offstage, because characters with projectiles can gimp Oli very easily and take out his 2nd jump. Zedgeing is effective. And even when he's onstage, spam your projectiles as well. Closed-range, even if Link outprioritizes Oli most of the time, Oli will probably always manage to shield/pivot grab a wrong move.

 

[Scabe]

I don't like how small Olimar is, it makes hitting him with Zair a pain.

It's really hard to get through his projectile wall with our projectiles or just approach in general.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlJLgtaMMuw

 

[Dnyce]

this is a dificult MU for Link, but will be nice if you can help us to know things about Olimar

Anything specific you want to know about Olimar?

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

Here's a visual for you all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlJLgtaMMuw

Watch how Legan spaces.

I've played Denti quite a bit, so I have some pointers.

Nair: Very good in this matchup. Out-prioritizes pikmin, even Oli's smashes (upsmash specifically)

Zair: Another great tool in this matchup. It also eats pikmin, and is a good use for approaching through pikmin and buffering moves out of it (In the vid above, you will see Legan dsmash out of zair).

Imo, Link should be approaching and putting some aggressive pressure against Olimar (intelligently, of course), instead of trying to out-camp him. Since Link's sword can also override pikmin, you can also prevent Olimar from grabbing you, if you time it right. You also might be able to sneak a dair or two, if the Olimar is not careful. Remember if you have pikmin latched onto you, or if you connect an attack with pikmin, hit frames will increase; use that to your advantage.

Offstage, Link should obviously use his rang to hopefully stops Olimar's pikmin or approach.
When Olimar is offstage, projectiles can be effective as well as zair-hogging the ledge. Not much else you can do there. =/

Hope this helps.


Oh, and watch out for grounded upB at 45 degree angle when you are in the air.

 

[Blissard]

Oh, and watch out for grounded upB at 45 degree angle when you are in the air.

Nolimar uses grounded tethers outide of combos.

 

[IYM!]

Anything specific you want to know about Olimar?

i have a question


Does each pikmin has different priorities?

 

[Dnyce]

i have a question


Does each pikmin has different priorities?

Olimar's pikmin moves have little priority; however, there are some moves/pikmin that give the illusion of priority due to their tremendous hit-box size. For the most part, yellows are the most disjointed, followed by purples and reds.

 

[IYM!]

Olimar's pikmin moves have little priority; however, there are some moves/pikmin that give the illusion of priority due to their tremendous hit-box size. For the most part, yellows are the most disjointed, followed by purples and reds.

good info.

another question

who is the strongest pikmin, in terms of KO power??

Who is the (overall) the best pikmin?

and

Does Olimar have good DI?

 

[bluetoonlink]

good info.

another question

who is the strongest pikmin, in terms of KO power??

Who is the (overall) the best pikmin?

and

Does Olimar have good DI?

purple,red,yellow.
for trowh blue,purple, white(?). but not in this order

 

[Thebest1pj]

Lcancel didnt know the MU at the time he would gladly **** all of you in 100 dollar mms

 

[L_Cancel]

Nolimar uses grounded tethers outide of combos.

I actually disagree. I think grounded tethers have their time, use and importance. o:

 

[Blissard]

I actually disagree. I think grounded tethers have their time, use and importance. o:

Yeah lol I was just trying to imply that they're not by any means a standard form of attack. And I'm assuming that you've just recently namesearched? XD

 

[L_Cancel]

Yeah lol I was just trying to imply that they're not by any means a standard form of attack. And I'm assuming that you've just recently namesearched? XD

Lol Indeed. For some reason that video always comes up when Link Oli is mentioned. xD

Even though I won the set. :< lol

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Lol Indeed. For some reason that video always comes up when Link Oli is mentioned. xD

Even though I won the set. :< lol

People want to see you get ***** I guess.

Also watch the order of pikmen, you can get a read sometimes from this if you pay attention to the order.

Like people said, Nair is good, kills pikmen on you and can out prioritize some pikmen attacks.

Careful if bombs latch to the upper part of Link body if your holding a bomb, you might toss it and have it explode in your face.

Only question I have is what are Olimar's bad stages?

 

[Blissard]

Only question I have is what are Olimar's bad stages?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Olimar didn't really have bad stages. They're pretty much neutral for him. An Oli player counter picks stages based on what's bad for their opponent.

L_Cancel, you should namesearch now, haha.

 

[L_Cancel]

Like for the most part. Bad stages for Olis are like, personal to the Oli. xD Like Logic hates Picto, but Hilt and I like it as a cp. I hate frigate, but Dabuz does really well there. Etc.

And a lot of people will say RC is bad for Oli, but both fino and I really like it. lol

PERSONALLY, in the Link vs Olimar MU, I feel like his best cps against Oli would be FD or Brinstar. o:

 

[Blissard]

Holy crap L_cancel is ninja o.o !!!!!!!!!

 

[quirkynature]

PERSONALLY, in the Link vs Olimar MU, I feel like his best cps against Oli would be FD or Brinstar. o:

FD, lolwut? Projectile spamming anyone?

Question: How's Olimar do on Norfair? It's one of Link's best stages and quite a few characters don't like it.

 

[L_Cancel]

FD, lolwut? Projectile spamming anyone?

Question: How's Olimar do on Norfair? It's one of Link's best stages and quite a few characters don't like it.

From my experience it's much harder for Link to get back to the ground against Oli on any stage with platforms, that's why I suggested FD. lol

Norfair is a pretty good Oli stage too. I don't think it gives either character super strong advantages over one another though....

 

[Dnyce]

good info.

another question

who is the strongest pikmin, in terms of KO power??

Who is the (overall) the best pikmin?

and

Does Olimar have good DI?

Depends on the move. For the most part it's Purple, but reds do well for aerials and blues do well for grabs.

The best pikmin changes on match-up. Personally I love purples, but in some match-ups they're worthless (like ike).

DI is dependent on the player, not the character... so idk what that means.