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Link's Match-up Thread: Ryu would like an answer to a question.
- Thread starter #HBC | Red Ryu
- Start date
- Status
Dumbfire
Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Don't fight her close range.
She sucks at approaching so abuse that.
She sucks at approaching so abuse that.
Purple
Hi guys!
I think we can beat zelda, tbph.
btw, we still need a ratio for DK.
While on a CP i feel we had a good chance of winning against him, in a tournament setting I find our chances of winning minimal. If he bans/strikes YI and FD you have no good neutral to face him on, and you're literally working hard on the first match. Granted you get to CP and potentially win like i stated before, but then you lose in the third round.
If he gets in and gets a grab on you, he can potentially kill you. Know you can get out of DK's cargo throw faster by just holding up instead of mashing (even then a swift throw is a done deal for link),
Even on top of that, he can kill. All he has and getting pressured by Link's projectile game, but what's that to DK? One of the heaviest characters in the game with one of the best B-arsenals?
I really think 70:30 DK
btw, we still need a ratio for DK.
While on a CP i feel we had a good chance of winning against him, in a tournament setting I find our chances of winning minimal. If he bans/strikes YI and FD you have no good neutral to face him on, and you're literally working hard on the first match. Granted you get to CP and potentially win like i stated before, but then you lose in the third round.
If he gets in and gets a grab on you, he can potentially kill you. Know you can get out of DK's cargo throw faster by just holding up instead of mashing (even then a swift throw is a done deal for link),
Even on top of that, he can kill. All he has and getting pressured by Link's projectile game, but what's that to DK? One of the heaviest characters in the game with one of the best B-arsenals?
I really think 70:30 DK
Dumbfire
Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Cargo Throw spike thing..?
Ehh.. Wall tech?
Ehh.. Wall tech?
Purple
Hi guys!
Oh no Volcanic, it's worse than that, Cargo throw to nothingness. If DK cargo throws you off the stage, like just off the stage, DK's throwing you a bit lower than the edge, even with a jump and an Up-B, if done right it's practically a guaranteed gimp.
Scabe
Successful Businessman
Yeah the Ike Killer. That works so well against Link 
Micaelis
Smash Journeyman
The Matchup is no worse than 60:40 for Link on a realistic level. You just have to think of the match-up differently than most. I don't know about Link's camp game but I feel like it's solid. Most DKs say TL is one of their worse matchups due to how susceptible he is to being zoned/camped. Link potentially brings equal camp game (if not better with his longer Zair) and can even kill much sooner than TL. Since your biggest problem is being essentially grabbed or hit by DK, then stay away! Link's attacks also can hit DK for any bad spacing since all of his attacks are hurtboxes too. And Link can ledge stall with his Zair and even gimp DK's very horizontal recovery by hanging on the ledge.
Like I said, I think it might be 55:45 if Link camps like hell and uses his higher priority sword to mess with DK. But if you really want, I'd concede 60:40, MAYBE 65:35 but no way 70:30
Like I said, I think it might be 55:45 if Link camps like hell and uses his higher priority sword to mess with DK. But if you really want, I'd concede 60:40, MAYBE 65:35 but no way 70:30
Purple
Hi guys!
So how will Link kill in your opinion?
Yeah... that doesn't really help. I know she cant approach and what not. But when you do get close what do you do. As far as i can tell, as long as your close to Zelda, there isn't much you can do. Which is kind of a problem since i like fighting on smaller stages.
Dumbfire
Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Jab to tell her to gtfo.
SDI from her smashes. DI + Zair / Tech the down Smash.
Run away or whatever you can do to reset your spacing.
SDI from her smashes. DI + Zair / Tech the down Smash.
Run away or whatever you can do to reset your spacing.
Scabe
Successful Businessman
Let's keep it at DK for now but we'll move on to Zelda next. I really want to write up the DK vs Link matchup before we move on, I play this match up all the time.
Huggles828
Aimin' to Misbehave
He doesn't get Super Armor at the very beginning of the punch, so if you hit him JUST right he'll lose it while he's trying to hit you. Like hitting Wario out of his fart at the beginning. Also, I think if he gets hit hard he has a chance to just lose it, but that I'm not too sure about that or even if it's just random chance.
IYM!
Smash Lord
mm about falco, link bombs have a little adventages
falco can relect the bomb......
but he can not reflect the explosion
link must take adventage of that situation
also , falco is a ligth weigth character , link can give him a KO easily
and about DK link is faster and have projectiles
with them , link can give very hight damage an do great combos
DK depends only of his close range combat
also he is big and that helps make better use o Zair
be carefull with his up B in the air (when you try to recover also), one hit and you can not recover
falco can relect the bomb......
but he can not reflect the explosion
link must take adventage of that situation
also , falco is a ligth weigth character , link can give him a KO easily
and about DK link is faster and have projectiles
with them , link can give very hight damage an do great combos
DK depends only of his close range combat
also he is big and that helps make better use o Zair
be carefull with his up B in the air (when you try to recover also), one hit and you can not recover
Uhh I really dont think Link is faster than DK. While Jabs and maybe Links smashes come out faster then Dk's. Dk still has alot of attack options that have similar if not faster speeds then link as well as longer range and more KO power. As stated above, DK has many options to deal with Links Projectiles, not to mention the basics like shielding, dodging and all that other good stuff.
quirkynature
Smash Ace
Ike Killer? You lost me.Yeah the Ike Killer. That works so well against Link
Purple
Hi guys!
the ike killer is the cargo throw. It kills ike because his up-b won't go far enough, and his side-b is so low down it won't reach the ledge.
Dumbfire
Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
I played a DK in an offline tournament yesterday and he completely outspaced me with his Bair and Tilts. I couldn't space with Zair, he used the small area of Smashville to keep me pressured.
#HBC | Red Ryu
Red Fox Warrior
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2008
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- Milwaukee, Wisconsin
- NNID
- RedRyu_Smash
- 3DS FC
- 0344-9312-3352
Take him to a big stage over a small stage, always.
Dtilt to DownB works on Link at low percentages for a while. If you get grabbed, mash mash mash, cargo throw can gimp Link if your not careful. This match-up is pretty bad, he kills us earlier, can can zone in with bair and has one of the best livability of characters in the game.
Some DK's try to jump up and UpB towards you from the ledge, bombs, dair, Fair, and I think Zair can knock him out of it.
just some tips I have.
Dtilt to DownB works on Link at low percentages for a while. If you get grabbed, mash mash mash, cargo throw can gimp Link if your not careful. This match-up is pretty bad, he kills us earlier, can can zone in with bair and has one of the best livability of characters in the game.
Some DK's try to jump up and UpB towards you from the ledge, bombs, dair, Fair, and I think Zair can knock him out of it.
just some tips I have.
Scabe
Successful Businessman
Oh yeah by holding up while DK takes you offstage during his cargo, it will make you break out of his grab really quickly. It's a weird glitch.
On Yoshi Island and Pictochat DK has this AT where he uses his Up B and he's completely invincible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-FXO43sUAc
Link's jab actually can stop this from happening if you get his Up B in the beginning frames.
On Yoshi Island and Pictochat DK has this AT where he uses his Up B and he's completely invincible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-FXO43sUAc
Link's jab actually can stop this from happening if you get his Up B in the beginning frames.
#HBC | Red Ryu
Red Fox Warrior
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2008
- Messages
- 27,486
- Location
- Milwaukee, Wisconsin
- NNID
- RedRyu_Smash
- 3DS FC
- 0344-9312-3352
Oh that, Sonic can also abuse that to run around invincible during SideB for a while, didn't know DK could do the invincibility trick as well.
IYM!
Smash Lord
weird glitch......
Scabe
Successful Businessman
Sorry that I took a while to post. I play the Link vs DK matchup all the time with my good friend. I think it's 60/40 in DK's favour.
At really low percents expect to see DK going for these true combos:
• Dtilt > Link Trips > Down B
• Dthrow > Ftilt.
Link should space well in the beginning of the match to avoid these. If he does his down B instantly try and hit him with Zair, the cool down for Down B takes a while and hitting him with Zair when you get hit into the air usually works.
Expect lots of Bairs. It’s such a good move. It comes out fast, it ends fast, has heaps of range and quite a bit of knockback. There’ll be lots of mixups with Bair, sometimes he’ll do an empty short hop and won’t use it, and sometimes he will.
Sometimes he will Back air into Side B while still in the air. Watch out for that, I fall for this everytime!
He also has a somewhat wall of pain with his Back air and can constantly hit you offstage until you can’t make it back. He can fit two Back airs into a short hop.
We can shield grab DK if he does a landing back air.
Watch out for the rising ones. According to frame data we only have 15 frames to punish this. Which isn’t a whole lot. Upsmash or maybe even Up B OOS could work but it’s very risky if their not in range. We should be able to jump OOS and Nair/Bair him. Zair could work, and if it did it would be the safest option. Test these things out and see what works.
Bair is probably his best move so do your best to keep DK looking forward at you.
His Side B is troublesome when it hits you. It puts you in a pitfall if you get hit. And it deals massive shield damage.
You won’t get put in the pitfall if your jumping, so try Nair. Rolling may help with avoiding this hit, it’s got some ending lag that you may be able to punish if you roll behind.
You’ll probably get grabbed a lot. DK has a pretty big grab range. **** those massive arms of his.
Don’t land in front of DK. Space your aerials such as Fair and Zair so you land as far as possible but still getting that last hit in. Nair is too weak and easily shield grabbed. A theory I have with Back air is to use it once then use it again on your double jump. Double jump away so that you don’t land in shield grab range. You don’t want to land behind DK with lag.
His Cargo is what you should fear. He can take you offstage and either stage spike you or throw just throw you out and make it almost impossible to recover.
There’s this dumb glitch where if you hold up during DK’s Cargo throw and he takes you offstage it pretty much makes you break out of it instantly. But at higher percents he’ll still be able to pull off his Cargo shenanigans. You can tech the cargo throw stage spike.
As for the ‘Ike Killer’ where he just throws you offstage, I’m not sure what to do against that yet. But yes this is why you should try and not get grabbed by especially at the sides. So stay in the center and it should be easier to break out of his Cargo if he decides to do it. I'll get you video evidence of this 'Ike Killer' soon.
On Yoshi Island and Pictochat DK has this AT where he uses his Up B and he's completely invincible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-FXO43sUAc
What you can do is jab at the beginning of this move and it will cancel it out.
Watch out for his fully charged Neutral B, the range of that move is nuts. It also has deceptive ending lag where it ends really quick, so you’ll usually see it in conjuction with Dtilt or even Fsmash if the move misses and you try to go in and punish his Giant Punch.
Basically don’t approach him. Don’t have a forward momentum to go and attack him. Keep it cool and keep retreating.
His Fsmash is brutal. You can't sheild grab his Fsmash. And his Dsmash is really fast and strong.
A common thing you’ll see is DK living forever. He’s one of the heaviest characters the game and his Up B is like a bucket brake where it stops all momentum.
DK can do a running Shield and get inside your range to counter Zair. He can also approach you using full hops to avoid your Zair.
When DK is off stage hassle him with Arrows, Boomerangs and maybe but probably not bombs?. When he’s far away and recovering with Up B, Dair is disjointed and will hit him out of his Up B.
If you miss with Dair you probably won’t make it back with DK’s Up B stalling.
Keep mixing up your projectiles and find a way to make a wall to prevent from DK getting in.
Sadly our projectile wall can be pretty easy to go through.
We can Bomb footstool jab lock DK. For a good early 40 percent or so. It's hard to set up though.
Jab Jab cancel into jab cancel and so on works really well. If done right, DK will be stuck inside and will be forced to take the hits.
It probably could be SDI’d of. Link’s Jabs can be shield grabbed between each hit, which is dumb. It usually happens. If done at early percents he probably falls fast enough to grab us.
Keeping DK high above you is good. Our Up air beats his Dair.
Starter
Battlefield – Matchup get’s better
Final Destination - Counterpick worthy
Smashville - Matchup gets worse
Yoshi's Island – Matchup Gets Worse/Ban Worthy
Starter/Counter
Castle Siege - Neutral
Halberd – Matchup gets worse
Lylat Cruise - Neutral
Pokémon Stadium 1 – Neutral/Matchup Gets Worse
Counter
Brinstar – Matchup gets worse
Delfino – Matchup Gets worse
Frigate Orpheon - Matchup gets worse
Jungle Japes – Ban Worthy
Pictochat – Neutral/Matchup Gets worse
Pirate Ship – Matchup Gets worse
Pokémon Stadium 2 - Neutral
Rainbow Cruise – Matchup gets better
Counter/Banned
Distant Planet - ?
Green Greens - ?
Luigi's Mansion – Ban Worthy
Port Town Aero Dive ?
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) ?
Norfair - ?
Mostly stolen from Smash Wiki
DK's Pros:
Well rounded attacks, good mobility, good range and incredible finishers
Donkey Kong is a very heavy character with very powerful attacks, great attack range, and high knockback capabilities. He is one of the fastest heavyweight characters; his movement speed is above average: fast running, fast walking, fast air speed, and very high initial jump.
DK's Cons:
Donkey Kong lacks projectiles and a reliable way to deal with them, which makes his moveset and style of approach unvaried.
He's got a very small shield in proportion to his body size.
Link's Pros:
3 Projectiles
Good DI
Lot's of AT's
Link's Cons:
Gimpable
Slow moves, slow air movement, slow etc
What DK can do to us and how we can deal with him
• Dtilt > Link Trips > Down B
• Dthrow > Ftilt.
Sometimes he will Back air into Side B while still in the air. Watch out for that, I fall for this everytime!
He also has a somewhat wall of pain with his Back air and can constantly hit you offstage until you can’t make it back. He can fit two Back airs into a short hop.
Watch out for the rising ones. According to frame data we only have 15 frames to punish this. Which isn’t a whole lot. Upsmash or maybe even Up B OOS could work but it’s very risky if their not in range. We should be able to jump OOS and Nair/Bair him. Zair could work, and if it did it would be the safest option. Test these things out and see what works.
Bair is probably his best move so do your best to keep DK looking forward at you.
You won’t get put in the pitfall if your jumping, so try Nair. Rolling may help with avoiding this hit, it’s got some ending lag that you may be able to punish if you roll behind.
As for the ‘Ike Killer’ where he just throws you offstage, I’m not sure what to do against that yet. But yes this is why you should try and not get grabbed by especially at the sides. So stay in the center and it should be easier to break out of his Cargo if he decides to do it. I'll get you video evidence of this 'Ike Killer' soon.
A common thing you’ll see is DK living forever. He’s one of the heaviest characters the game and his Up B is like a bucket brake where it stops all momentum.
What we can do to DK and how he can deal with us
Zair wrecks DK. Space it so that you end up getting the furthest hit. It stops his short hop approaches and his ground approaches. It probably will shield poke too considering how bad DK’s shield is.
Jab Jab cancel into jab cancel and so on works really well. If done right, DK will be stuck inside and will be forced to take the hits.
Stages
Starter
Battlefield – Matchup get’s better
Final Destination - Counterpick worthy
Smashville - Matchup gets worse
Yoshi's Island – Matchup Gets Worse/Ban Worthy
Starter/Counter
Castle Siege - Neutral
Halberd – Matchup gets worse
Lylat Cruise - Neutral
Pokémon Stadium 1 – Neutral/Matchup Gets Worse
Counter
Brinstar – Matchup gets worse
Delfino – Matchup Gets worse
Frigate Orpheon - Matchup gets worse
Jungle Japes – Ban Worthy
Pictochat – Neutral/Matchup Gets worse
Pirate Ship – Matchup Gets worse
Pokémon Stadium 2 - Neutral
Rainbow Cruise – Matchup gets better
Counter/Banned
Distant Planet - ?
Green Greens - ?
Luigi's Mansion – Ban Worthy
Port Town Aero Dive ?
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) ?
Norfair - ?
Strengths and Weaknesses
Mostly stolen from Smash Wiki
DK's Pros:
Well rounded attacks, good mobility, good range and incredible finishers
Donkey Kong is a very heavy character with very powerful attacks, great attack range, and high knockback capabilities. He is one of the fastest heavyweight characters; his movement speed is above average: fast running, fast walking, fast air speed, and very high initial jump.
DK's Cons:
Donkey Kong lacks projectiles and a reliable way to deal with them, which makes his moveset and style of approach unvaried.
He's got a very small shield in proportion to his body size.
Link's Pros:
3 Projectiles
Good DI
Lot's of AT's
Link's Cons:
Gimpable
Slow moves, slow air movement, slow etc
Videos of this matchup
(5/09) KirinBlaze (Link) vs. Will (DK)
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IILWJw5IQ0
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffma2N6QrSk
The Tenth of York vs The Sixth of York. (Meanlies. 2/26/10)
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bNVQt4ye60
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q1K3REk7pY
3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUj4m0C1Ylw
4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di0a_ObNIyE
5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUawExASt_o
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eF63T80Igk
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-hCpi9PpFg
Aerial rave November 11, 2009. Legan (Link) vs. Ripple (DK)
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_S-2khlMm4
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMsc_oOB8NY&feature=related
May 04, 2009 —
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAzH5jwlpL4&feature=related
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xYJKVvXI0U&feature=related
3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgAIQiJ6UD4&feature=related
4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDamHqLl5Kc&feature=related
5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abdPZInCBkI&feature=related
6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69ehLRtaBBY&feature=related
7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFiZM2i-dbs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXHFgDSrpA8
Scabe (Link) vs Silfa (DK) March 15, 2010 — Mid Tier Tourney match.
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCUSJxra2_A
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4S8oicVLYc&feature=related
Scabe (Link) vs Silfa (Donkey Kong) 3/3 Friendly Offline 24/9/09
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68N7VecWe5s&feature=related
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK2D8IkfKiI&feature=related
3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj_S5NAKZRk
KirinBlaze
(5/09) KirinBlaze (Link) vs. Will (DK)
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IILWJw5IQ0
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffma2N6QrSk
The Tenth of York vs The Sixth of York. (Meanlies. 2/26/10)
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bNVQt4ye60
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q1K3REk7pY
3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUj4m0C1Ylw
4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di0a_ObNIyE
5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUawExASt_o
Legan
(5/24) Legan (Link) vs. Ripple (DK)
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eF63T80Igk
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-hCpi9PpFg
Aerial rave November 11, 2009. Legan (Link) vs. Ripple (DK)
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_S-2khlMm4
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMsc_oOB8NY&feature=related
May 04, 2009 —
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAzH5jwlpL4&feature=related
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xYJKVvXI0U&feature=related
3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgAIQiJ6UD4&feature=related
4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDamHqLl5Kc&feature=related
5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abdPZInCBkI&feature=related
6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69ehLRtaBBY&feature=related
7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFiZM2i-dbs&feature=related
Scabe
Scabe (Link) vs Silfa (DK) Offline loser's bracket tourney match at "This Is It", 31/1/10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXHFgDSrpA8
Scabe (Link) vs Silfa (DK) March 15, 2010 — Mid Tier Tourney match.
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCUSJxra2_A
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4S8oicVLYc&feature=related
Scabe (Link) vs Silfa (Donkey Kong) 3/3 Friendly Offline 24/9/09
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68N7VecWe5s&feature=related
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK2D8IkfKiI&feature=related
3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj_S5NAKZRk
Huggles828
Aimin' to Misbehave
Three whole days without activity?! That can't be; we're the Link boards! We're supposed to be booming with activity! (bump)
Like I said before, I really can't see how this would play out in my mind even though I play DK on the side (I'm the only Link main I know where I live, it's not like I can get practice as either character against the other, haha), but I can play anyone as either on wifi if they want, although Scabe posted a bunch of nice vids. I do think you need to consider DK as a top tier threat, because if it weren't for Dedede, DK would probably be around the top of high tier, so you need to be careful when it comes to underestimating him.
After watching several vids of Legan and Scabe and others, it looks winnable to me, but it certainly seems to be pretty solidly in DK's favor. Actually, 60/40 doesn't sound too bad, but I'd still be really careful around DK. He looks like he can rip us apart really quick if we give him a chance to.
Like I said before, I really can't see how this would play out in my mind even though I play DK on the side (I'm the only Link main I know where I live, it's not like I can get practice as either character against the other, haha), but I can play anyone as either on wifi if they want, although Scabe posted a bunch of nice vids. I do think you need to consider DK as a top tier threat, because if it weren't for Dedede, DK would probably be around the top of high tier, so you need to be careful when it comes to underestimating him.
After watching several vids of Legan and Scabe and others, it looks winnable to me, but it certainly seems to be pretty solidly in DK's favor. Actually, 60/40 doesn't sound too bad, but I'd still be really careful around DK. He looks like he can rip us apart really quick if we give him a chance to.
SpaghettiWeegee
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2010
- Messages
- 91
Just because I like making you read what I think, I'd like to say a few things about this matchup.
I'll keep it brief.
The way I see it, the key to winning is to racking up damage from afar via Link's spam game. When, DK gets too close, Zair him across the stage, then smash him away in order to give you time to regroup.
Only when he gets up to KOable percents should you move in for the kill.
DK's a pretty good character (a bit underrated, in my opinion), so this matchup can get pretty dicey. It's not terribly hard (not like, oh let's say, Falco hard), but you're still going to have to work for the win (as with almost all of Link's matchups). 60:40 DK.
So, if everyone's in agreement, I'd say that NOW it's time to move on.
I'll keep it brief.
The way I see it, the key to winning is to racking up damage from afar via Link's spam game. When, DK gets too close, Zair him across the stage, then smash him away in order to give you time to regroup.
Only when he gets up to KOable percents should you move in for the kill.
DK's a pretty good character (a bit underrated, in my opinion), so this matchup can get pretty dicey. It's not terribly hard (not like, oh let's say, Falco hard), but you're still going to have to work for the win (as with almost all of Link's matchups). 60:40 DK.
So, if everyone's in agreement, I'd say that NOW it's time to move on.
Huggles828
Aimin' to Misbehave
So everyone in agreement with 60/40 DK's favor? Ready to move on?
There really aren't too many characters left to discuss unless we want to revisit some characters (some of our matchup reviews were from before lots of people left for AiB). How about Fox? I don't think we've done him yet. My brother has a nasty Fox that gives me a good bit of trouble unless I'm on my toes, plus I think it's a matchup that deserves a good look from our standpoint since he beats Link pretty badly.
There really aren't too many characters left to discuss unless we want to revisit some characters (some of our matchup reviews were from before lots of people left for AiB). How about Fox? I don't think we've done him yet. My brother has a nasty Fox that gives me a good bit of trouble unless I'm on my toes, plus I think it's a matchup that deserves a good look from our standpoint since he beats Link pretty badly.
Hmm i dont know too much about Fox. Well I have played a bunch but they all have the same static and boring style of just dairing the whole match and trying to combo from there. If you just constantly avoid that you should be fine. That and avoid doing anything super laggy and stupid at around 110%+ to avoid Foxes Usmash.
Anyone have an actual list of discussed match ups?
Anyone have an actual list of discussed match ups?
PK-ow!
Smash Lord
Discuss Luigi plz.
Luigi -> walk up, shield, beat first response. Then wtfcombopwn with Nair, jab or whatever works at that percent (I don't know, I haven't studied Luigi in depth).
The matchup looks impossible to me.
And yes, that's with Luigi's lollersliding shield. He can interrupt Link's ftilt and dtilt, isn't deterred by jab, laughs off Zair (he *wants* you to Zair), and humiliates you if he must with anti-air.
Projectile spam meets his right foot. Early juggles really risky unless they true combo.
And he kills you first.
Luigi -> walk up, shield, beat first response. Then wtfcombopwn with Nair, jab or whatever works at that percent (I don't know, I haven't studied Luigi in depth).
The matchup looks impossible to me.
And yes, that's with Luigi's lollersliding shield. He can interrupt Link's ftilt and dtilt, isn't deterred by jab, laughs off Zair (he *wants* you to Zair), and humiliates you if he must with anti-air.
Projectile spam meets his right foot. Early juggles really risky unless they true combo.
And he kills you first.
Huggles828
Aimin' to Misbehave
We need to discuss:
Diddy
IC's
Lolimar
Pit
Fox
Weegee
Bowser
Yoshi
Mario
Craptain Falcon
I made a more updated chart, but I'll wait 'til Red Ryu gets back from practicing for MLG to post it. Plus it could use some work. A lot of these matchups I feel like we have a good gist on what they should be but just need to finalize. I would be up for Weegee but I don't know anyone who plays Weegee and don't really play him a lot, so I can't really help in any way except theorizing.
Link = bad up front, decent at walling off people. Weegee = has trouble getting inside, probably the single best character at demolishing people when he does get up close. If Weegee gets inside, you are gonna get pwned. Period. And he's probably gonna eventually get inside a few times in this match. I still don't see it as hopeless, but Link's surivability really drops down to average at best in this match when he can kill Link vertically at I presume around 65% with a B up. But I don't know any good Weegees. I could be totally wrong.
Diddy
IC's
Lolimar
Pit
Fox
Weegee
Bowser
Yoshi
Mario
Craptain Falcon
I made a more updated chart, but I'll wait 'til Red Ryu gets back from practicing for MLG to post it. Plus it could use some work. A lot of these matchups I feel like we have a good gist on what they should be but just need to finalize. I would be up for Weegee but I don't know anyone who plays Weegee and don't really play him a lot, so I can't really help in any way except theorizing.
Link = bad up front, decent at walling off people. Weegee = has trouble getting inside, probably the single best character at demolishing people when he does get up close. If Weegee gets inside, you are gonna get pwned. Period. And he's probably gonna eventually get inside a few times in this match. I still don't see it as hopeless, but Link's surivability really drops down to average at best in this match when he can kill Link vertically at I presume around 65% with a B up. But I don't know any good Weegees. I could be totally wrong.
quirkynature
Smash Ace
I could definitely do with a Luigi matchup guide. God knows Link's sex kick gets ***** by Weegee's sex kick.
IYM!
Smash Lord
hey!!!
what about wolf?????
i need help with this matchup , some tactics and usefull techniques against him PLISSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!
what about wolf?????
i need help with this matchup , some tactics and usefull techniques against him PLISSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!
Scabe
Successful Businessman
Letsa move on to Luigi! I thought this critieria went well when I had to do it for DK. Anyways if you guys can help out, visit the Luigi boards and ask them to come over. The more of us asking the better chance we have of getting some input from them.
What Luigi can do to us and how we can deal with him
What we can do to Luigi and how he can deal with us
Stages
Videos of this matchup
IYM! I think we have discussed Wolf at some point. I'll locate the pages.
What Luigi can do to us and how we can deal with him
What we can do to Luigi and how he can deal with us
Stages
Videos of this matchup
IYM! I think we have discussed Wolf at some point. I'll locate the pages.
#HBC | Red Ryu
Red Fox Warrior
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We did discuss Wolf, Anonono helped with that one.
Luigi can be a difficult to handle at times. All of his specials have their uses. Many of which can actually lead to your doom pretty easily.
Fireballs are Luigi's spam. It can go about half of FD i think and floats, so it can be pretty dangerous and prevent Link from approaching with Zair at times. His fireball animation is actually really great to work in between combos, it gives him a nice float that can easily lead into any of his aerials, making comes like Fair>Fair>Fireball>Uair>Uair stuff possible. Fireballs can also be used to bait Link into air dodging and putting him into a bad place. SH fireball approach is pretty dangerous for Link, you shouldn't attempt to shield or dodge them, because a good Luigi can chase the fireball and grab or pivot grab after shield or dodge. Though on a good note i think Link has many attacks that can cancel or clank with Luigi's fireballs, someone should check that out.
Down Special is mostly use for recovery purposes, usually after the second jump but before the Up special.. Most Luigi players tend to fly straight up with it, and usually go above the ledge. If a Luigi does do this a lot, Link has a simple response with either just a Dthrown bomb at lower %s or Dair if you want to go for the kill. Ground based down special approaches are rather annoying to deal with. Overall it isn't too dangerous and doesn't do much damage. But Luigi can move really fast, and its probably impossibly to shield grab if a Luigi knows what hes doing. It can also lead to combos at nearly any % because of how little knock back it does. However it does require that Luigi stop near you to follow up, leaving him open to a shield grab or a fast OoS attack. Its probably not a good idea to attempt to dodge this attack as it has many hit boxes and Luigi could just sit on top of you and wait for your invincibility to run out. Though for the most part, all you really need to expect from this approach is just for him to move in and out for some quick damage and possible to knock you off balance.
The Green Missle is another special that can be used to recover. An attack based pretty much on luck for kills and many Luigi players will probably attempt to sneak a few in during the match hoping for a misfire. Though being as deadly as it is, it also is quite easy to predict where its going and counter with a multitude of attacks (use dair) lol.
Fire Punch is his final special. Another one of Luigi's deadly attacks that can kill at relatively low %s. It has a very small hit box and if he does miss you get a free smack at him with w/e you want to use. Most common ways of landing the fire punch is punishing a really slow attack such as a spin attack or grab. The other one is a close range jab cancel into fire punch. There is also a certain % in which his Nair can connect directly into his fire punch, but i dont think it can kill at that %.
Luigi tends to slide alot, and really far. Which generally makes it fairly impossible for Luigi to shield grab you unless you space incorrectly.
Most common things to worry about from Luigi is Utilts into aerials. This can easily combo Link at low %'s. Also with Luigi's huge recovery, he can easily to a deadly wall of pain off stage with Uair, Fair, and Bair. Its also important to note that Luigi's nair can easily get him out of many combos if you dont space correctly. Also that dair is capable of spiking.
Fireballs are Luigi's spam. It can go about half of FD i think and floats, so it can be pretty dangerous and prevent Link from approaching with Zair at times. His fireball animation is actually really great to work in between combos, it gives him a nice float that can easily lead into any of his aerials, making comes like Fair>Fair>Fireball>Uair>Uair stuff possible. Fireballs can also be used to bait Link into air dodging and putting him into a bad place. SH fireball approach is pretty dangerous for Link, you shouldn't attempt to shield or dodge them, because a good Luigi can chase the fireball and grab or pivot grab after shield or dodge. Though on a good note i think Link has many attacks that can cancel or clank with Luigi's fireballs, someone should check that out.
Down Special is mostly use for recovery purposes, usually after the second jump but before the Up special.. Most Luigi players tend to fly straight up with it, and usually go above the ledge. If a Luigi does do this a lot, Link has a simple response with either just a Dthrown bomb at lower %s or Dair if you want to go for the kill. Ground based down special approaches are rather annoying to deal with. Overall it isn't too dangerous and doesn't do much damage. But Luigi can move really fast, and its probably impossibly to shield grab if a Luigi knows what hes doing. It can also lead to combos at nearly any % because of how little knock back it does. However it does require that Luigi stop near you to follow up, leaving him open to a shield grab or a fast OoS attack. Its probably not a good idea to attempt to dodge this attack as it has many hit boxes and Luigi could just sit on top of you and wait for your invincibility to run out. Though for the most part, all you really need to expect from this approach is just for him to move in and out for some quick damage and possible to knock you off balance.
The Green Missle is another special that can be used to recover. An attack based pretty much on luck for kills and many Luigi players will probably attempt to sneak a few in during the match hoping for a misfire. Though being as deadly as it is, it also is quite easy to predict where its going and counter with a multitude of attacks (use dair) lol.
Fire Punch is his final special. Another one of Luigi's deadly attacks that can kill at relatively low %s. It has a very small hit box and if he does miss you get a free smack at him with w/e you want to use. Most common ways of landing the fire punch is punishing a really slow attack such as a spin attack or grab. The other one is a close range jab cancel into fire punch. There is also a certain % in which his Nair can connect directly into his fire punch, but i dont think it can kill at that %.
Luigi tends to slide alot, and really far. Which generally makes it fairly impossible for Luigi to shield grab you unless you space incorrectly.
Most common things to worry about from Luigi is Utilts into aerials. This can easily combo Link at low %'s. Also with Luigi's huge recovery, he can easily to a deadly wall of pain off stage with Uair, Fair, and Bair. Its also important to note that Luigi's nair can easily get him out of many combos if you dont space correctly. Also that dair is capable of spiking.
IYM!
Smash Lord
well, i was looking and dont find a wolf discussion. Really appreciate your help Scabe
i realy hope learn more about wolf , his blaster and Dsmash make me sufer
I trust in Smash boards, in two weeks i learn a lot
i realy hope learn more about wolf , his blaster and Dsmash make me sufer
I trust in Smash boards, in two weeks i learn a lot
Scabe
Successful Businessman
Whoops sorry, almost forgot about that, here's when the Wolf Matchup discussion started: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=231077
quirkynature
Smash Ace
Off-topic, I love Weegee's dash attack and B-air. I'm thinking of picking him up just for those two attacks. XD
IYM!
Smash Lord
??????
???????this is the link of frist page of this thread and I read that page, only falco info and next pikachu
well falco is dificult too and his style is a little similar,i mean laser, reflector, meteors, agility
thanks anyway
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