we should just remove link from the game completely because all people can talk about is what he can't do - just think of the possibilities! You could talk about ANYTHING that way!
<3
<3
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Link Social Thread
- Thread starter Muhti
- Start date
There is nothing wrong with feedback.
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
Dng3
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2008
- Messages
- 129
I think it's perfectly reasonable for all the complaints. It should be no surprise since you have a bunch of passionate Link players who have spent time learning him down to the little details in 2.1. They are all just passionate about Link and also passionate about Project M, so of course they want to express what works and what doesn't.
In this case, the only real repeating complaint is the boomerang. That's all. If it was changed for balance purposes then it wouldn't be such a big deal but the fact is that a design choice to mirror 64/melee boomerang led to an unintended nerf which wasn't warranted.
This reaction would hold true for any other characters. In fact, its the same reason why PMBR won't dare make changes to melee top tiers due to the fact of driving away veteran players. You have a case here now where all the 2.1 Link veterans are being driven away due to this boomerang change, which was what the PMBR wanted to avoid in the first place. You have to be fair to those melee and 2.1 veterans alike.
This is unfortunate and I don't really want to say there's a case of double standards here, but it would be easier to understand if there were some consistencies.
In this case, the only real repeating complaint is the boomerang. That's all. If it was changed for balance purposes then it wouldn't be such a big deal but the fact is that a design choice to mirror 64/melee boomerang led to an unintended nerf which wasn't warranted.
This reaction would hold true for any other characters. In fact, its the same reason why PMBR won't dare make changes to melee top tiers due to the fact of driving away veteran players. You have a case here now where all the 2.1 Link veterans are being driven away due to this boomerang change, which was what the PMBR wanted to avoid in the first place. You have to be fair to those melee and 2.1 veterans alike.
This is unfortunate and I don't really want to say there's a case of double standards here, but it would be easier to understand if there were some consistencies.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Come now, even you have to realize how silly that sounds. This isn't simply a case of people complaining about Link's shortcomings. It's a case of people discussing things Link COULD do, but now he can't do. There's a big difference there. Add to that the fact that he didn't really get anything to make up for it, and it's obvious why Link players would be confused and frustrated.
If anything, the PMBR should be happy that Link players enjoyed him so much in 2.1. We all understand that everything is subject to change, but changing his boomerang "to make it like Melee" is just change for the sake of change. Frankly, it seems like you guys "fixed" something that wasn't broken.
B.W.
Smash Champion
Sup guys. Played 2.5 Link for the first time today.
Feels pretty much the same. AGTing is easier to do though.
I don't think I'm ever gonna understand what all the fuss is about lol.
Feels pretty much the same. AGTing is easier to do though.
I don't think I'm ever gonna understand what all the fuss is about lol.
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
The rang isn't as good, simple as that.
Everything else about him is the same, not counting the 3 bombs.
All they have to do is put the rang back the way it was in 2.1 and everyone will be happy.
Everything else about him is the same, not counting the 3 bombs.
All they have to do is put the rang back the way it was in 2.1 and everyone will be happy.
B.W.
Smash Champion
It's like. The same lol. The angle it hits is slightly more to the side, you can still capitalize on the hit just fine. Boomerang is still good as hell.
Is your opponent DI'ing?
B.W.
Smash Champion
He is indeed.
Then I think he's not DI'ing very well lol. Links dash is too slow to follow up the rang hit without throwing the rang from an incredibly unsafe position.
B.W.
Smash Champion
He DI's fine, we've been playing this game (starting with Melee) for years lol.
The rang isn't a bad projectile, use it to run not approach. Getting a hit off a rang gives you time pull a bomb which is so much better for approaching. If you wanna start something off the boomerang you will have to be closer, but I'm sure most of you know this.
But for real, it's really not that bad, Link is not hurt as hard by this as you guys are saying.
The rang isn't a bad projectile, use it to run not approach. Getting a hit off a rang gives you time pull a bomb which is so much better for approaching. If you wanna start something off the boomerang you will have to be closer, but I'm sure most of you know this.
But for real, it's really not that bad, Link is not hurt as hard by this as you guys are saying.
Dng3
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2008
- Messages
- 129
No, Link's combo game was hurt pretty badly because of the change. You say not to approach with boomerang but it was great for approaching in 2.1. Project M page even states the purpose of boomerang having combo ability, which it only has now at close range and makes it as mediocre as melee's boomerang now. It's simply nothing special now. It was much more versatile prior to 2.5 so Link was nerfed quite more than you think.
Main point being, as mentioned by many others, 2.1 rang > 2.5 rang. Fact.
B.W.
Smash Champion
I didn't say 2.1 rang is worse than 2.5 rang. I just don't any reason to complain just yet.
Right, playing campy is the problem. 2.1 Rang could play campy and be used aggressively. The 2.1 boomerang is what allowed him to play aggressively. Reverting it to melee is basically saying "don't play aggressively" which most of us have a problem with.
I think the backroom would agree that playing campy is not fun to watch and hurts the games appeal. I don't see why this change was made when it only hurts links that want to play in a less boring way. As hylian has said, this is a matter of enjoyment of the character. Shifting the rangs angle back to 2.1 isn't going to break link.
B.W.
Smash Champion
It's still not a change that actually hurts Link though. He might have a single worse approaching tool, and while I agree we shouldn't change him to Melee fact is he's still far superior than he was in Melee.
I'd imagine they're trying to make Link emulate his Melee playstyle more, which is defensive play. This change helps turn him back into a more defensive character, but the character is still not a bad character. It's seriously a such a slight nerf to the character as a whole, and he's still fun to play.
I'd imagine they're trying to make Link emulate his Melee playstyle more, which is defensive play. This change helps turn him back into a more defensive character, but the character is still not a bad character. It's seriously a such a slight nerf to the character as a whole, and he's still fun to play.
Dng3
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2008
- Messages
- 129
http://www.twitch.tv/internetexplorer6/b/357447343
skip to 18:37
Thoughts? I am worried what they might do to Link.
skip to 18:37
Thoughts? I am worried what they might do to Link.
Wait... Link is thoughtless to play? Have they played some of the top tiers? Falcon... Shiek.. Falco? Link is thoughtless to play?
Link has terrible endlag on his moves. It's not about startup.
Well, regardless I'm pretty sure the thoughts of one link in the backroom isn't going to warrant changes for no good reason.
Gadiel_VaStar
Smash Champion
Bros, I'm going to a P:M tournament this Saturday if everything goes well. What should I do to place well @ this event? My P:M copy does not work, but everytime I play P:M I seem to only play extremely well w/ Link. I'm not the best @ Wavedash/L-cancel, but I can practice Link in Melee for those things. Tips on anything else I should practice?
Thanks,
~Gadiel
Thanks,
~Gadiel
Wobbly Headed Bob
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2010
- Messages
- 367
Wait, are they playing 2.1 or 2.5?
I really hope they don't change him as much or at all.
(unless they're going to add A+B Gale Boomerang)
Dan Salvato
IE
Despite my feelings, Hylian and Shadic take an opposite stance on Link so I'm pretty sure they're going to make him even better.
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
IE, you should've just given HDL all the stocks in "Links vs Stinks", lol
D
Deleted member
Guest
I agree with IE but to a lesser degree.
I also think it's okay for Link to be one of the better characters. But I'm also kind of tired of "every character has to be viable, every move has to have some use".
I also think it's okay for Link to be one of the better characters. But I'm also kind of tired of "every character has to be viable, every move has to have some use".
Dan Salvato
IE
Yeah, I don't have an issue with some moves being useful only in some very specific situations or just for creative combos. Not a Link comment but more of a general one. If every move is good in any situation then the creativity is removed from the game.
RomeDogg
Smash Journeyman
I stopped posting in the Link boards or reading them because of excessive whining. I come back almost two weeks later and 10 pages in I still see remnants of it. Is anyone going to move this conversation forward to something positive instead of dwelling on the PMBR adding depth to Link? Lets talk about how he has his sexy bomb teching back and how he can play with 3 bombs now. Oh and how he still can combo hard as a motha fugga!!!
D
Deleted member
Guest
I don't know why you think bringing up a valid concern counts as whining.
RomeDogg
Smash Journeyman
To me it is invalid. Every change they did from 2.1 to 2.5 Link adds more depth to him. Also if its about the boomerang man it forces approaches so hard now so it is beneficial by getting foes to come up close for some technical Link combos. It also increases the importance of those bombs because in demo 2.1 it nearly replaced the bombs because of that knockback. I couldn't be more satisfied my only concern is not have the Melee grab length and the Melee tether mechanics. They can't change that right now and in the future I have faith they will. So to me they are doing a phenomenal job with Link to me he is complete except for that tether stuff I mentioned.
Dan Salvato
IE
Link's grab length is actually pretty good. If you get that "max" grab length where the hookshot pauses a second before reeling in, then it's definitely pretty long. I do miss Melee tether, though, especially since they tried to "make up for it" by giving his upB ridiculous horizontal distance.
RomeDogg
Smash Journeyman
Well in Melee it always out ranged Marth's lame old forward smash but now it gets out-ranged by Marths forward smash. I really miss it even to this day everyone once in a great while I think I have that Melee length and miss recoveries and grabs because of it. Then I am like oh yeah that's right its so much shorter now. I mean you wont believe how much longer his Melee grab actually was. Those moments make me really want to play Melee and miss it. But you know I guess right now Link does have a great recovery with AGTs. I guess we can only blame Sakurai for his lazy half a** VBrawl bullcrap.
RomeDogg
Smash Journeyman
Not really a complaint since it is a brawl thing. Though even with his increased Sword length he has nothing close range that will out reach Marth. Also all the positive attributes of veterans transferring to Project M from Melee are suppose to keep everything good about them.
Ryu_Ken
Ace Adventurer and Truth Seeker
Link in Project M has fast speed in his attacks compared to his Melee counterpart. His Side Smash and his Aerial Down are the most noticeable (Side Smash cause of speed and Aerial Down cause of end lag, which seems ridiculously shorter than the original). Overall, he appears to be as fast as young link.
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
No, Melee YL was definitely more mobile.
If you're specifically referring to attack speed, then yeah, he's closer.
If you're specifically referring to attack speed, then yeah, he's closer.
cannedbread
Smash Lord
dude what
how do you outspace marth at close range
if your talking about something to escape pressure he can still nair oos which isn't bad and spotdodge dsmash is a good panic button if you don't abuse it too much
but you really shouldn't be panicking with marth he can't pressure shields or anything
RomeDogg
Smash Journeyman
I just love out spacing a Fsmash from Marth and grabbing him in Melee. Its just whack that Sakurai made his range shorter with it. His hook shot was epic in melee. As long as you didn't miss.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Aesthetic question!
Now that we know it's possible for characters to have more than 3 taunts (Ness), can you guys please add Link's fairy taunt back in? I actually kinda miss it
Now that we know it's possible for characters to have more than 3 taunts (Ness), can you guys please add Link's fairy taunt back in? I actually kinda miss it
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
Link isn't trying to save anyone in Smash, he's just there for fun, that's why.