Link Social Thread

[Hylian]

I thought 2.1 Rang was kinda braindead. But like... if you're comparing him to spacies, falcon autocombos, sheik and etc... I guess sure. He seemed okay vs everyone else and a close to high tier character in 2.1. He still seems strong in 2.5, but probably requires the use of a lot of the tools that he has (both figuratively and literally) and takes a lot of creative dedication, which seems to be exactly what Link is as a character theme, lol.

I like it as a design choice and like it as a development choice. Just like I like the change from 2.1 Sonic, even though it does legitimately make him worse. Same with 2.1 Ike, but to a lesser extent. Also, ZSS's grab sucks. Her throws are what's great. I would take Link's grab to just about every tether character short of Lucas', to be honest.

How was it possibly braindead? It was a great risk/reward. The start-up animation is long enough so that it makes it dangerous to throw it close where you are really going to be able to combo off it. Link already had to use his ENTIRE moveset to compete in 2.1, not sure what you mean about using different tools. There isn't much creativity when it comes to this boomerang, it's only good for camping.

 

[BRLNK88]

Da frick, it looks like they didn't revert the boomerang to 2.1 for 2.5b... we did ask for it did we not?
>_>

 

[Gimpyfish62]

2.5 is not a balance patch nor does the link social thread dictate all of the changes that are going to be made to a character lol

 

[BRLNK88]

Hylian, you're in the backroom, you need to try harder, lol.

 

[`dazrin]

Like Gimpyfish said, 2.5b is a bugfix patch. We wanted to stray away from gameplay related changes so that users who haven't updated from 2.5 to 2.5b will still be able to bring their set-ups to tournaments without any controversy.

 

[BRLNK88]

I see... um...
I'm in the process of downloading, do I even need to bother messing with my 2.5 character folders? Just replace the gct?

Too late did it.

 

[Skeith]

Wow, it seems the change with the grab and boomerang is a big deal on here. Personally it doesn't really seem much of a problem imo ._.

 

[Hylian]

2.5 is not a balance patch nor does the link social thread dictate all of the changes that are going to be made to a character lol

This.

Hylian, you're in the backroom, you need to try harder, lol.

I don't run the PMBR lol. I got added to the backroom after 2.5 launched, not much I could have done to convince people otherwise.


I played Link today when practicing with friends and did really good again. I just...stopped using rang lol. It's really just not worth the risk anymore, but I still think link can compete without it. Sucks to have less options but oh well lol.

 

[Wobbly Headed Bob]

This.



I don't run the PMBR lol. I got added to the backroom after 2.5 launched, not much I could have done to convince people otherwise.


I played Link today when practicing with friends and did really good again. I just...stopped using rang lol. It's really just not worth the risk anymore, but I still think link can compete without it. Sucks to have less options but oh well lol.

Gale boomerang

 

[Hylian]

I hate gale boomerang >_>.

 

[Onomanic]

I'm going to have to disagree about not using boomerang. As bad as the Gale Boomerang was in Brawl, it was still a vital part of Link's keep away game. The same still applies in PM. If there's too much pressure, projectiles are the way to go, especially with a less ****ty boomerang.

 

[Beorn4200]

Moved to frame data thread.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

I feel like Link's up-tilt has less range, why the hell would the PMBR start remodeling Link after his old crappy Melee self? It doesn't make sense, they're just making Link worse when he didn't need to be

 

[B.W.]

Up-Tilt has the same range in 2.5 as it did in 2.1.

 

[Soldner Kei]

well, perhaps it's just me, but I have found the rang being useful when it comes back, it cancels knockback to the point of getting some free hits into the opponent, still, I am not saying that it's his best tool or something, but it has good gimmicks when you put some thought into it :V

 

[standardtoaster]

I recorded a match of J666's link vs someone's ness. I'll see if I can get more matches from him. I'll also try and get skler to play.

 

[Beorn4200]

I recorded a match of J666's link vs someone's ness. I'll see if I can get more matches from him. I'll also try and get skler to play.

That sounds great! Hope J666 doesn't just body the Ness, it's not nearly as fun to watch. When will they be uploaded?

 

[standardtoaster]

All APEX matches should probably be uploaded within a couple weeks after APEX is over.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

I recorded a match of J666's link vs someone's ness. I'll see if I can get more matches from him. I'll also try and get skler to play.

Why would the guy who the PMBR took suggestions for Link from in the first place, not want to even try the Link he created?

Maybe it's because the PMBR screwed him up by putting crappy melee Link aspects back into Link and they stopped listening to his further suggestions? I seem to recall he also said Link's side-tilt should be slightly faster

 

[standardtoaster]

I meant if I could find him again today.. I never said he refused to play.

 

[Shadic]

Maybe it's because the PMBR screwed him up by putting crappy melee Link aspects back into Link and they stopped listening to his further suggestions? I seem to recall he also said Link's side-tilt should be slightly faster

I'd suggest that you know what you're talking about before you go off complaining like that.

I'd suggest speeding up his ftilt, make it the same speed as YL's ftilt.

The dtilt is going to be useless forever.... I'd suggest leaving it as it is though..

The dsmash needs less horizontal knockback.

His aerials are fine as is.

The arrow needs to be sped up. If it didn't require such a stupidly long charge to go far it'd at least be an option.

The boomerang is fine...

Bombs are perfect...

We took a lot of Skler's suggestions, and did more. So please try and be productive with the Link discussion instead of just acting passive-aggressive because the character isn't exactly what you want. In a Demo.

 

[GHNeko]

Annnnnddd Shadic is the poster of the day today.

 

[B.W.]

Skler is a monster, I want to see him in action in P:M 2.5 so bad.

 

[Beorn4200]

I'd suggest that you know what you're talking about before you go off complaining like that.



We took a lot of Skler's suggestions, and did more. So please try and be productive with the Link discussion instead of just acting passive-aggressive because the character isn't exactly what you want. In a Demo.

Man, he was extremely conservative. There is no way link would be high tier with only those changes... In fact he only suggested like 3 things to improve link (That you've shown us)

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

I'd suggest that you know what you're talking about before you go off complaining like that.



We took a lot of Skler's suggestions, and did more. So please try and be productive with the Link discussion instead of just acting passive-aggressive because the character isn't exactly what you want. In a Demo.

I've seen enough people complaining about how stupid of a decision it was to make Link's boomerang and any other aspects about him the same as his old crappy melee self, you can't sit here and tell me that's a smart decision, it made him worse when he didn't need to be, that's all I'm saying, I don't think Link is bad now, I think he's somewhere in high tier, I'm just saying there was no need to make him worse that's all

I'd like to see where you got the quote from because I swear in the next post Skler said his f-tilt should be a little faster and I agreed

I think I'm being productive by discussing a decision made by the PMBR on Link and explaining why it's a bad one, though I guess the statement has been made enough so I'll drop the boomerang thing regardless, though on another note I still don't see how his air grab was so bad when it was hard and unreliable to execute on anyone besides the spacies really

Skler is a monster, I want to see him in action in P:M 2.5 so bad.

Has he ever even tried any demo?

 

[GHNeko]

The quotes come from the backroom, bro.

 

[Beorn4200]

I've seen enough people complaining about how stupid of a decision it was to make Link's boomerang and any other aspects about him the same as his old crappy melee self, you can't sit here and tell me that's a smart decision, it made him worse when he didn't need to be, that's all I'm saying, I don't think Link is bad now, I think he's somewhere in high tier, I'm just saying there was no need to make him worse that's all

I'd like to see where you got the quote from because I swear in the next post Skler said his f-tilt should be a little faster and I agreed

I think I'm being productive by discussing a decision made by the PMBR on Link and explaining why it's a bad one, though I guess the statement has been made enough so I'll drop the boomerang thing regardless, though on another note I still don't see how his air grab was so bad when it was hard and unreliable to execute on anyone besides the spacies really



Has he ever even tried any demo?

I know how you feel about the rang changes, and I feel like they make him worse for no reason as well, but this is most definitely the wrong way to go about getting this changed. You are hurting our cause rather than helping it. Pissing off Shadic (the guy that has control over link) Is just about the worst thing you can do.

The rang changes are a problem, but he also has other, more obvious coding flaws that should be fixed as well and will help him a a lot in the end.

Gotta take it slow man. Post a video of how DI destroys follow ups with rang now. That would be helpful for our case against the change. I would, but I have no equipment...

 

[BRLNK88]

I don't like the new rang either, but I hate TL's up-B distance even more.
Complaining about it here won't change a thing, people need to come to a consensus in the backroom.

 

[Beorn4200]

I don't like the new rang either, but I hate TL's up-B distance even more.
Complaining about it here won't change a thing, people need to come to a consensus in the backroom.

I'm Pretty sure the fact that it's in 2.5 means the backroom came to a consensus...

It's up to us link mains to get the results (or lack thereof) and sway backroom opinions (like with Ike or wario or G&W)

 

[BRLNK88]

They somehow came to a consensus to change it to the way it is in 2.5, yes.
But Gimpyfish himself said us complaining about it here won't change it.

 

[Beorn4200]

They somehow came to a consensus to change it to the way it is in 2.5, yes.
But Gimpyfish himself said us complaining about it here won't change it.

I never said complain. I said sway opinions.

We should probably talk about link stuff though...

Pivot grabbing with Link is now useful since he lost the aerial grab bubbles on his clawshot.
It goes pretty far out and is really useful for chaining low to mid percent grabs.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

y'all should seriously start to figure out how you actually CAN play link instead of worrying about how you CAN'T play link

 

[Hylian]

y'all should seriously start to figure out how you actually CAN play link instead of worrying about how you CAN'T play link

I mean...Rang was one of the most fun and interesting aspect about 2.1 link since it let him play up close and combo like and gave him great pressure. Now all of that is gone and he pretty much just plays like melee link now which a lot of people don't find nearly as fun.

It's not really about not knowing how to play Link anymore, it's just not nearly as fun to play him anymore. I still think he's good(not as good and a lot worse in specific match-ups) and I still have fun playing him for the most part it's just a bad feeling losing one of the things that was most fun about your character.

I'm still going to aim to win tournaments with Link.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

you're missing the point

talking about what link doesn't have has been done and wasn't helpful to people trying to learn link or improve their links

i trust that you still know how to play link hylian, and you're not really the one i'm concerned with lol


but if all the ________ boards are talking about is what they lack then nobody is going to get anything done

 

[Hylian]

you're missing the point

talking about what link doesn't have has been done and wasn't helpful to people trying to learn link or improve their links

i trust that you still know how to play link hylian, and you're not really the one i'm concerned with lol


but if all the ________ boards are talking about is what they lack then nobody is going to get anything done

No I think you're missing the point lol. The point is people want rang back because it was fun. That's pretty much it. Link wasn't exactly given any new options aside from 3 bombs. They aren't talking about what they lack they are talking about what they want. Playstyles pretty much just shifted to not using rang much at all it wasn't too hard to adapt to.

This is also the link social thread, I didn't really see people asking how to improve their links >_>. That mainly goes on in chats/video thread.

 

[BRLNK88]

I feel like most people that play PM Link already have an idea of how to play Link...
Outside of the better rang, Link still has everything else in his bag of tricks, thus its pertinent to discuss how the 2.1 rang would aid his arsenal.
I do believe pushing him back in the direction of Melee Link is a BIG mistake.

 

[Beorn4200]

No I think you're missing the point lol. The point is people want rang back because it was fun. That's pretty much it. Link wasn't exactly given any new options aside from 3 bombs. They aren't talking about what they lack they are talking about what they want. Playstyles pretty much just shifted to not using rang much at all it wasn't too hard to adapt to.

This is also the link social thread, I didn't really see people asking how to improve their links >_>. That mainly goes on in chats/video thread.

Yeh... I'm pretty sure after 11 years of playing link I know what I'm doing. I agree with Hylian... It's pretty much a matter of going from 2.1 aggressive link (who was very fun) to being melee (camping is his only good option on a lot of characters) link. That really hurt our PM play styles.

Because of these nerfs the only things competent link mains need to learn are how to not use grabs as much anymore and how to not use rang... This doesn't exactly make us want to learn anything in 2.5, it's kinda just depressing.

There is a difference between a character like sonic or Ike that got "changed" and a character like link that literally just lost options. His moves still do the same thing. They are just worse at it.

 

[standardtoaster]

I wasn't able to record skler yesterday because we weren't playing on my recording setup. I'll see if he can play again today. He said that he really loves all the changes to link and that he feels really good to play.

 

[Hylian]

I wasn't able to record skler yesterday because we weren't playing on my recording setup. I'll see if he can play again today. He said that he really loves all the changes to link and that he feels really good to play.

Did he play 2.1? Of course going to 2.5 is better if you're going straight from melee.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

The quotes come from the backroom, bro.

Didn't know he was backroom... but I do remember him posting in the old general P:M thread saying what I stated, though it was a while ago idk

I know how you feel about the rang changes, and I feel like they make him worse for no reason as well, but this is most definitely the wrong way to go about getting this changed. You are hurting our cause rather than helping it. Pissing off Shadic (the guy that has control over link) Is just about the worst thing you can do.

The rang changes are a problem, but he also has other, more obvious coding flaws that should be fixed as well and will help him a a lot in the end.

Gotta take it slow man. Post a video of how DI destroys follow ups with rang now. That would be helpful for our case against the change. I would, but I have no equipment...

To be honest I don't care all that much, it's just a game, it's silly though that 1 person annoying anyone should affect the outcome of a game but whatever, I just thought I'd point out what I thought of that decision, since I just seem to piss people off around here I'll do my best to refrain from posting other than just putting up videos(though I ramble in some of those too)

I would bother posting a video of how DI-ing away from the boomerang means no follow-ups, but the person I play against either doesn't remember to since it's a new thing to think of that makes a good difference, or he just doesn't think it important, though I told him I though Link's side-tilt was terrible and he set out to prove me wrong in a match or two, of course he never hit me with any unless I missed teching and fell to the ground but maybe he doesn't DI or does it towards me just to try to prove the rang isn't so bad when it really is, I know when I DI away when I remember to I get a good distance away and Link isn't fast enough for a follow-up

Anyways I'll take your advice and just leave

No I think you're missing the point lol. The point is people want rang back because it was fun. That's pretty much it. Link wasn't exactly given any new options aside from 3 bombs. They aren't talking about what they lack they are talking about what they want. Playstyles pretty much just shifted to not using rang much at all it wasn't too hard to adapt to.

This is also the link social thread, I didn't really see people asking how to improve their links >_>. That mainly goes on in chats/video thread.

Did he play 2.1? Of course going to 2.5 is better if you're going straight from melee.

I feel like most people that play PM Link already have an idea of how to play Link...
Outside of the better rang, Link still has everything else in his bag of tricks, thus its pertinent to discuss how the 2.1 rang would aid his arsenal.
I do believe pushing him back in the direction of Melee Link is a BIG mistake.

Listen to these people, they're the only ones making any sense around here, and Beorn4200