Link Hitbox & Frame Data

[B.W.]

CONTENT IS SEVERALLY OUTDATED AND I WILL NOT BE UPDATING THIS THREAD

Well seeing as how Smashmods is being closed down, I guess I should continue my work on this here.
----
Animations in BrawlBox do not show interpolation (drag) of hitboxes, so hitboxes won't stretch in these gifs but they do in game.

Intangibility is similar to invincibility, but instead of attacks having hitlag when hitting a character they pass through instead.

All GIFs are shown at 5 frames per second and with Link facing right.

If anyone has any info related to anything here that's not correct or already presented feel free to share.

Jab 1

Spoiler

Total: 28
Hits: 6-8
IASA: 20​

Jab 2

Spoiler

Total: 29
Hits: 5-7
IASA: 17​

Jab 3

Spoiler

Total: 50
Hits: 6-10
IASA: 32​

Rapid Jab

Spoiler

Total: 2 Start-up + 36 Repeating + 10 Ending
Hits: ? (Brawlbox didn't show hitboxes)
IASA: ?​

Dash Attack

Spoiler

Total: 51
Hits: 7-11
IASA: 38​

Forward Tilt

Spoiler

Total: 37
Hits: 12-15
IASA: 35​

Up Tilt

Spoiler

Total: 42
Hits: 8-14
IASA: 30​

Down Tilt

Spoiler

Total: 40
Hits: 12-15
IASA: 32​

Forward Smash 1

Spoiler

Total: 51
Hits: 15-18
IASA: 50​

Forward Smash 2

Spoiler

Total: 61
Hits: 11-15
IASA: 51​

Up Smash

Spoiler

Total: 75
Hits: 1st) 11-16; 2nd) 23-27; 3rd) 36-40
IASA: 55​

Down Smash

Spoiler

Total: 49
Hits: 1st) 8-10; 2nd) 20-22
IASA: 39​

Neutral Air

Spoiler

Total: 40
Hits: Initial) 4-6; Deteriorating) 7-38
IASA: 39
Landing Lag: 15
L-Canceled: 7​

Forward Air

Spoiler

Total: 50
Hits: 1st) 14-16; 2nd) 28-31
IASA: 49
Landing Lag: 15
L-Canceled: 7​

Back Air

Spoiler

Total:50
Hits: 1st) 6-9; 2nd) 18-23
IASA: 30
Landing Lag: 15
L-Canceled: 7​

Up Air

Spoiler

Total: 64
Hits: Strong) 5-7; Weak) 8-49
IASA: 56
Landing Lag: 28
L-Canceled: 14​

Down Air

Spoiler

Total: 90
Hits: Strong) 13-15; Weak) 16-64
IASA: 80
Landing Lag: 40
L-Canceled: 20​

Neutral-B
Total: 60 (goes into loop animation if held longer)
Fastest Arrow Release: 18...?
Fully Charged: 60
End Lag: 30
NOTE: No image because BrawlBox doesn't show projectile hitboxes.​

Side-B
Total: 46
Boomerang Release: 27...?
Boomerang Caught: 20
NOTE: No image because BrawlBox doesn't show projectile hitboxes.​

Up-B (Grounded)

Spoiler

Total: 80
Hits: 8-47​

Up-B (Aerial)

Spoiler

Total: 80
Hits: 1st) 8-13; 2nd) 16-20; 3rd) 22-27; 4th) 31-37; 5th) 47-51​

Down-B
Total: 40
NOTE: No image because BrawlBox doesn't show projectile hitboxes.​

Grab

Spoiler

Total: 85
Grabs: 12-19
NOTE: Image doesn't show the Clawshot portion of the grabbox because BrawlBox doesn't show articles.​

Dash Grab

Spoiler

Total: 95
Grabs: 14-21
NOTE: Image doesn't show the Clawshot portion of the grabbox because BrawlBox doesn't show articles.​

Pivot Grab

Spoiler

Total: 95
Grabs: 15-21
NOTE: Image doesn't show the Clawshot portion of the grabbox because BrawlBox doesn't show articles.​

Spot Dodge

Spoiler

Total: 23
Intangible: 2-15​

Dodge-Roll Forward

Spoiler

Total: 48
Intangible: 4-19​

Dodge-Roll Backward

Spoiler

Total: 48
Intangible: 4-19​

Air-Dodge

Spoiler

Total: 50 (Landing lag not included)
Intangible: 4-29
Landing Lag: 10​

Ledge Grab

Total: 7
Intangible: 1-7
NOTE: The GIF shows more than 7 frames. The extra frames were added to better show how long the intangibility lasts.​

Ledge Climb

Total: 35
Intangible: 1-30​

Ledge Climb (100%)

Total: 60
Intangible: 1-55​

Ledge Roll

Total: 50
Intangible: 1-25​

Ledge Roll (100%)

Total: 80
Intangible: 1-54​

Ledge Jump

Total: 44
Intangible: 16
NOTE: You can act out of the ledge jump soon after going airborne.​

Ledge Jump (100%)

Total: 59
Intangible: 1-22
NOTE: You can act out of the ledge jump soon after going airborne.​

Ledge Attack

Total: 56
Intangible: 1-25
Hits: 27-29​

Ledge Attack (100%)

Total: 70
Intangible: 1-47
Hits: 51-54​

 

[standardtoaster]

landing from air dodge is 10 frames landlag

 

[B.W.]

And progress is already being made.

Also some of the updates will be slow. I'm fiddling with other ways of making gifs to possibly make them smoother.

 

[Wobbly Headed Bob]

landing from air dodge is 10 frames landlag

Is the landing lag from zair the same?

 

[meck ruler]

Question

Are you doing these frame animations for all characters or just Link??

 

[standardtoaster]

zair also has 10 frames of landlag

 

[B.W.]

Are you doing these frame animations for all characters or just Link??

Just my characters of choice. Link is just the first one I'm doing it for.

Ivy will probably be next if someone else doesn't do it first.

 

[Beorn4200]

The front hitbox of utitl is no where near the actual sword... It's so small, or has it always been that bad?

Edit: Oh god it has... Why is it this bad? Not the utilt... links utilt is good. But why are the hitbubbles so off on his moves?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/img2013010800711.jpg/

Look at how close you can stand and still miss... Did I miss the boat on this in brawl? What is the point in having that extra brawl sword length if its being cut by 1/5 on some moves like dair.

 

[Deleted member]

Wow...seriously? His D-air looks terrible. That's at least 1/4 of his sword that has no hitbox. And it's no wonder I constantly mess up with U-smash. Silly me thought I should have been able to hit them with the tip of the sword. I don't even see a reason why U-tilt should be slightly deceptive (even though it's still a good move.)

 

[Juushichi]

I dunno, I've been getting hip to how the CPUs have been using dair. He's got a ridiculous seeming hitbox towards the front part of his dair when you start the move up. Confirmed. It's a spot dodge killer like falcon dair, kinda.

Also Dsmash hits on frame 8. EEEEEEEE

 

[Beorn4200]

Would it really be that terrible to move the hitbubbles on his sword that extra 1/5th, so that it's possible to correctly space them visually and not just guess. I have rarely had a match where I wasn't wondering why this move or that move just went right through a character.

Having the hitbubble mostly in front of dair is a blessing when trying to follow DI or ledge hop, but it would be really nice to have a real visual cue for Utilt and usmash considering how often spacing utilts with link has to connect. If anything needs this it would be utilt.
Even if the arm were moved back to bring the sword inline with the hitbubble that would be great.

Also, besides utilts hitbubble being wrong, utilt also has another deceptive trait to **** up spaceing....

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/img2013010800712.jpg/

And here is an image of how horrible utilts hitbubble is off on the back swing (the most important part of the move)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/img2013010800713.jpg/

Make no mistake, the rest of that last image would have ended in the blade going right through mario's arm as well.

I can't argue that some of his hitbubbles are huge and way off the actual animation... But, was this intentional for balance reasons, or was this melee? I know it wasn't an oversight. The PMBR are too knowledgeable and have gone too deep to miss this.

How many characters have to deal with the spaceing problem on utilt? Sword characters for that matter.. I'm actually curious.

I will test then post results with marth, Ike and tink.

 

[Revven]

The sword trail is very deceptive, Beorn. You shouldn't be using that as a way to measure where the hitboxes should be or would be, IMO.

A lot of Ike's moves have huge sword trails but you don't see the hitboxes on those going past the length of the sword.

I'd recommend looking in BBox rather than grabbing camera pictures of in-game pausing for more accuracy.

 

[Beorn4200]

The sword trail is very deceptive, Beorn. You shouldn't be using that as a way to measure where the hitboxes should be or would be, IMO.

A lot of Ike's moves have huge sword trails but you don't see the hitboxes on those going past the length of the sword.

I'd recommend looking in BBox rather than grabbing camera pictures of in-game pausing for more accuracy.

This wasn't a matter of sword trails... Or pausing. You can easily see the sword miss as the blade goes through the characters. They miss in game. Whether or not they miss in Brawlbox is irrelevant to that point.

Were the gifs in this thread not made in brawlbox? You can clearly see the end of the sword with no hitbubble. I'm sitting here testing this in vs and training modes. I'm testing in 1/4 speed and x1. I keep getting the same results with utilt (usmash,dair and second hit of fsmash) The sword (not the trail) is going right through heads and arms. It is pretty easy to see if you turn link facing left, making the sword trail not appear.

If this really isn't a problem for anyone I'll drop it.

 

[Magus420]

The outer hitbox on the sword not reaching the tip is weird and should probably be shifted outwards, but swords not hitting where it looks like they are due to hit windows, sword glows interpolating curves while hitboxes interpolate in a line, z-axis position, etc isn't something exclusive to Link. Marth's u/f/d-air for example appear to have a larger hit area than they do. Mario's arm is small and on the opposite side of the z-axis that Link's sword is on in that 2nd image for example, and the end of the sword is passing in front of Mario, not going through him. The hitbox not reaching the tip wouldn't make a difference in that case because of the way the sword is angled.

 

[Deleted member]

The sword trails I can understand, but the hitboxes should definitely cover the entire length of the sword. If anything, at least D-air should be fixed. People can call it a range buff if they want, but I just see it as correcting something that was wrong.

 

[Beorn4200]

The outer hitbox on the sword not reaching the tip is weird and should probably be shifted outwards, but swords not hitting where it looks like they are due to hit windows, sword glows interpolating curves while hitboxes interpolate in a line, z-axis position, etc isn't something exclusive to Link. Marth's u/f/d-air for example appear to have a larger hit area than they do. Mario's arm is small and on the opposite side of the z-axis that Link's sword is on in that 2nd image for example, and the end of the sword is passing in front of Mario, not going through him. The hitbox not reaching the tip wouldn't make a difference in that case because of the way the sword is angled.

I know about the zaxis. I took a picture of that to show everyone else that link completely misses at the begining of the move (which plays tricks on your spaceing) That's unfortunate that marth seems to have bigger hitwindows instead of seeming to have smaller ones like link.

The main problem I'm trying to bring up is that the sword is not covered in a hitbox on a couple (a very important couple) of links moves. I can pause on the actual sword tip going through marios model on the right zaxis. Though I'm sure anyone looking at this threads hitbubble gifs knows that this happens.

So It's agreed? I don't think anyone would complain if this hitbubble miss step by the brawl team were to be corrected. I also don't see the point of link missing for the first fourth of utilt because his sword goes barely behind the character. Why was this done? To **** with link players... Damn brawl was ****ed up.

 

[EmptySky00]

It would be cool if we had how many frames of blockstun his moves had as well @_@

 

[Problem2]

I don't remember if I pointed this out to the Link boards before, but here are a few moves that actually received worse frame data from the transition between Melee and P:M. I believe it is only fair that these are fixed.

Some Melee vs P:M frame data.

Standing Grab
Melee: 11-13 (close), 11-17 (hook), 18-85 (cooldown)
PM: 12-19 (grabs), 20-85 (cooldown)

I'm not even sure if the grab lasting longer in PM is a good thing. To me, that means that his grab extends outwards slower in PM than in Melee, making it easier for the opponent to escape.

Dash Grab
Melee: 12 (close), 12-17 (hook), 18-95 (cooldown)
PM: 14-21 (grab), 22-95 (cooldown)

Forward + Backward Rolls
Melee: Invul 4-19 out of 37
PM: Invul 4-19 out of 48

Ledge Grab
Melee: stuck for 3 frames (grants 30 frames invul)
PM: stuck for 7 frames (grants 30 frames invul)

Ledge Climb (< 100%)
Melee: 1-30 (invul) out of 32
PM: 1-30 (invul) out of 35

Ledge Roll (< 100%)
Melee: 1-38 (invul) out of 48
PM: 1-25 (invul) out of 50

Also, it appears that Link's landing detection during his mid-air jump is lower in P:M than it is in Melee. If you jump onto the stage from the ledge, Link almost instantly lands in P:M, while in Melee, there is a little bit of distance between Link and the ground. In Melee, this gives Link the option to wavedash, throw out last minute aerials before he lands, or even bomb drop on the opponent. Instantly landing limits his options in P:M to early aerials or ground moves.

 

[Shadic]

Where are you getting your P:M data? A lot of it is way off and it should actually match Melee already.

 

[Problem2]

The PM data is the data posted in the OP. The Melee data comes from here:
http://smashboards.com/threads/link-hitboxes-and-frame-data.306010/

If the data I'm presenting is wrong, then the appropriate threads need to be fixed.

 

[Problem2]

So can anyone update this thread for 3.0?

 

[B.W.]

I know I started the thread, but I'll be the first to say not I.

I lost a lot of the stuff I was using to get the data and I'm way too lazy to get it back. If anyone else wants to take on the task be my guest and have someone give you the power.

 

[Bomber7]

Does anyone know the right spacing for the boomerang to hit your bomb instead of blowing it up? I did it a few times at a tournament yesterday, I'm just curious; it looked like it was at its peek distance.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

@ B.W. do yew need help /tears

 

[B.W.]

I haven't worried about this thread since like 2.0 or something lol.

I never kept it up to date because I'm lazy. If someone else wanted to take over the thread, they're welcome to, it'd just be a matter of getting someone to give it to them or whatever it is they'd need to do.

 

[EmptySky00]

I would do it if someone showed me how. I really want updated frame data.

 

[B.W.]

@ KuroganeHammer will probably get to this eventually.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I guess I'll do it after ZSS?

I dunno.

 

[EmptySky00]

I would appreciate it beyond expression on behalf of all frame data whores. But whatever works for you.

 

[Y-L]

Hi guys, I'm working on a gfx mod for Link and I need some help with frame data. Could someone provide me with the frame on neutral b where he puts his sword away (or is it instant?) and the frame where he takes his sword back out? Also I need the frame on side b where he puts sword away (is it instant?) and the frame where he takes his sword back out. If I could get help on this it would help me a lot. I'm working on an infinite sword glow for Link and it will be amazing when it's done. Help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'll check out this stuff tomorrow where I'll probably make a new thread and unstick/stick them.

 

[Y-L]

I ended up finding it out but thanks.

 

[Charby]

Could someone give us the tech data as well , i am curious about his tech in place

 

[B.W.]

Most of this info is outdated. I didn't keep up with versions and no one has picked the thread up.

3.5 will have a debug mode so you can view hitboxes and other info. I'd just wait for that to release.

 

[ITALIAN N1NJA]

Most of this info is outdated. I didn't keep up with versions and no one has picked the thread up.

3.5 will have a debug mode so you can view hitboxes and other info. I'd just wait for that to release.

I'm curious if the new Debug mode will have frame counts on screen. That would be a very nice touch.

 

[cFive]

what does the "star-shape" in the middle of some hitboxes mean? ._.

 

[B.W.]

Sakurai angle.

Don't use this thread though.

In fact why does this thread even exist still?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

omfg **** you phone stop being bad

also it still exists because relevant data

 

[cFive]

Sakurai angle.

um....^^
so, mainly "random"?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

it's an angle of 361, its a special angle

depending on knockback the angle is anywhere between 0-45 degrees