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Rizen

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:4ganondorf: has incredibly good shield pressure. 2 strong hits breaks a shield easily. His problem isn't shields but rather getting walled off and having his slow frame data exploited.
I do think :4link:'s grab buff really helps. It's not as good as the jab cancel but Link at least has a decent answer to shield happy opponents with grab>Dthrow>followup.
 

Ryu_Ken

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:4ganondorf: has incredibly good shield pressure. 2 strong hits breaks a shield easily. His problem isn't shields but rather getting walled off and having his slow frame data exploited.
I do think :4link:'s grab buff really helps. It's not as good as the jab cancel but Link at least has a decent answer to shield happy opponents with grab>Dthrow>followup.
You'd be surprised. Gay, Fox, and Falcon have to respect his grab game now because they can't just throw out an attack and weave out of his grab range like they could pre-patch. The Dthrow buff puts the opponent in a not-so-favorable position and fast-fallers/heavyweights will have a very hard time escaping the follow-ups. Sure, the buffs don't drastically change up his MUs, but at least his game has improved by 5 points or so.
 

DarkDeity15

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So is anyone besides me and maybe Sasook headed to CEO?

As a side note, there's a little less than a week until CEO and I'm already starting to get nervous. Not only am I not 100% sure I'll be attending, but I've had absolutely no practice since last tournament. I'm definitely gunna have to set my expectations low with this one. :ohwell:
 

DUKEL

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Friendlies are the greatest. Play a lot of friendlies before, during, and after. Aside from labbing, it's one of the best things you can do to get better. Just my 2 cents.
 

A_Phoenix_Down

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So is anyone besides me and maybe Sasook headed to CEO?

As a side note, there's a little less than a week until CEO and I'm already starting to get nervous. Not only am I not 100% sure I'll be attending, but I've had absolutely no practice since last tournament. I'm definitely gunna have to set my expectations low with this one. :ohwell:
I feel like when I stop playing and come back to it a little while, I do incredible. Like my potential peaks.

I lose interest after playing for a while so I start getting lazy.
 

Dumbfire

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We had a Dutch smasher who always used to say taking a break was good only if the player was smart. Ninjalink was always against them though, I remember he told us numerous examples of players who were great, then took a break and never quite recovered.
 

Ryu_Ken

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I feel like when I stop playing and come back to it a little while, I do incredible. Like my potential peaks.

I lose interest after playing for a while so I start getting lazy.
Basically Smash and fighting games in a nutshell.
 

DarkDeity15

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I feel like when I stop playing and come back to it a little while, I do incredible. Like my potential peaks.

I lose interest after playing for a while so I start getting lazy.
I find this true to an extent. It feels like giving yourself some time to reflect on your play style really helps. And if you watch others play, you can point out what they did right and wrong, and apply this to your own play style, sometimes without even knowing it. The same thing can apply to other hobbies. But at the same time, a lot of good things about your own play style may be forgotten, because no one else plays quite like you. You might even remember these things by heart and still forget to use them in your matches. Sorry to ramble, but those are my thoughts.
 

KenMeister

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I feel like when I stop playing and come back to it a little while, I do incredible. Like my potential peaks.

I lose interest after playing for a while so I start getting lazy.
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that way.
 

DarkDeity15

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We had a Dutch smasher who always used to say taking a break was good only if the player was smart. Ninjalink was always against them though, I remember he told us numerous examples of players who were great, then took a break and never quite recovered.
I've gone for months without playing before and I did just fine so long as I got some time to watch YouTube from time to time. Everything just comes naturally to me. Does that make me smart lol? My only trouble is with incorporating and dealing with any new meta stuff that appears while I'm gone.
 
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Lawz.

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I've gone for months without playing before and I did just fine so long as I got some time to watch YouTube from time to time. Everything just comes naturally to me. Does that make me smart lol? My only trouble is with incorporating and dealing any new meta stuff that appears while I'm gone.
Yeah but who are you playing against?
 

KenMeister

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Well for me personally, small breaks (maybe like a week or so) have done surprisingly well for me, primarily because I run on momentum, and playing too much tends to either fatigue me, bore me, or I make stupid technical mistakes. I was actually out of town for 10 days last week before playing Sm4sh again, and picking it up again actually felt pretty great, as the time off gave me time to think about my holes in my playstyle, and draw my mind off of matches I might have either felt salty about or feel I could've done better in, primarily on Anther's Ladder or the Character Skype groups. That being said, Melee is a bit different as it requires alot more technical skill and knowing conversions, so I need to lab with that one about once or twice a week otherwise I become a laughing stock at friendlies. lol
 
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DarkDeity15

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Yeah but who are you playing against?
Well I'm going to a regional, so...

Well for me personally, small breaks (maybe like a week or so) have done surprisingly well for me, primarily because I run on momentum, and playing too much tends to either fatigue me, bore me, or I make stupid technical mistakes. I was actually out of town for 10 days last week before playing Sm4sh again, and picking it up again actually felt pretty great, as the time off gave me time to think about my holes in my playstyle, and draw my mind off of matches I might have either felt salty about or feel I could've done better in, primarily on Anther's Ladder or the Character Skype groups. That being said, Melee is a bit different as it requires alot more technical skill and knowing conversions, so I need to lab with that one about once or twice a week otherwise I become a laughing stock at friendlies. lol
Yeah, it's been and extremely long time since I've played PM, so picking the game up again will admittedly be a bit of a struggle. Once I get the hang of it again though, I'd imagine the fundamentals I've learned in Sm4sh will transfer quite nicely.
 
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ShinnyMetal

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I've gone for months without playing before and I did just fine so long as I got some time to watch YouTube from time to time. Everything just comes naturally to me. Does that make me smart lol? My only trouble is with incorporating and dealing with any new meta stuff that appears while I'm gone.
Really I depends on the person. Breaks are amazing for me in all things. I start to get somewhat complacent at times, especially video games and have to refresh to get rid of some of the bad habits I'm developing
 
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ShinnyMetal

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Never really liked :4miigun:. Much prefer :4miisword:. Though i find it unfair the Swordfighter doesn't get a wall jump like the other two. Maybe if he had a tether, I would forgive Sakurai.
I need to try gunner myself. It'd be nice to have a samus that didn't suck
 

DUKEL

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You play against CPUs.
But have you ever played a good player for either of the characters? Good samuses and good zeldas are something to be feared. Not by top tiers, necessarily, but a good samus and zelda can really put in work.
 

Rizen

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Zelda's better on wifi IMO; she's much safer and can actually land moves like Din's. IDK about Samus but she seems bad.
Really good players of any character can wreck. Even in Brawl I've seen impressive stuff. SSB4 is less polarized that Brawl and bad characters have more of a chance. The thing is, even though people can play them well they're still bad characters. It's one thing to win a few games but another to win a tournament.
 

8MAN

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Nairo's Zelda was pretty entertaining to watch, back in the early days of Sm4sh, shame he stopped using her for tournaments as of late.
 

DUKEL

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If you want to see a good zelda, check out Cosmo's stream when he's not practicing Roy. He's probably the best Zelda atm.

As for samus, we have a great Samus player in Cincy, which is why I know what she can do. She's a lot more dangerous than people give her credit for, and her charge shot is excellent if saved for a moment where landing it is guaranteed.
 
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ShinnyMetal

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Nairo's Zelda was pretty entertaining to watch, back in the early days of Sm4sh, shame he stopped using her for tournaments as of late.
What makes people good worth them is that they are fundamentally good at smash and their read game is good. However they are working hard to use them, much harder than they would with other characters. Zelda and samus are not good in this game. Customs save samus in a way because then she actually has an interesting zoning game.
 
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8MAN

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What makes people good worth them is that they are fundamentally good at smash and their read game is good. However they are working hard to use them, much harder than they would with other characters. Zelda and samus are not good in this game. Customs save samus in a way because then she actually has an interesting zoning game.
I, uh, think you quoted the wrong person there ^
 
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Elessar

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You know you're a special kind of terrible in this game when you manage to get edge hogged.


I was touching the dpad btw. Also, I showed this to fsk in the xat and I'm sure he answered, but since he took a while I wasn't there anymore (had to leave for work).
 

Linkmario00

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You know you're a special kind of terrible in this game when you manage to get edge hogged.


I was touching the dpad btw. Also, I showed this to fsk in the xat and I'm sure he answered, but since he took a while I wasn't there anymore (had to leave for work).
If I'm correct, Sakurai mentioned in a pic of the day that you can't steal the ledge if the other person still has invincibility frames and that seems the case
 

Elessar

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If I'm correct, Sakurai mentioned in a pic of the day that you can't steal the ledge if the other person still has invincibility frames and that seems the case
You won't Ledge trump, but you can still grab the Ledge. Anyways, I already got a very interesting and quite logical answer (I believe this is what happened):

Amazing! I know exactly why this happened but I've never seen it before. So whenever you take damage you're unable to grab the ledge for like 30 frames or so. He upBed you, you took damage but no knock back, then you upBed and fell before your ledge grabbing window was available. If you had waited a tiny bit longer to Upb you would've grabbed the edge. Very cool! Your friend being on the ledge had no effect here.
@ Camalange Camalange Since I also showed it to you.
 

Elessar

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I've never heard of that before.

Interesting.

:093:
You haven't? It's been known for some time already that there's a brief period after you take dmg during which you can't grab the Ledge. That's why if I Jab you as you coming to grab the Ledge you'll drop rather than holding it.
 

Camalange

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You haven't? It's been known for some time already that there's a brief period after you take dmg during which you can't grab the Ledge. That's why if I Jab you as you coming to grab the Ledge you'll drop rather than holding it.
I didn't know it was based off of taking damage and for a certain frame count. I assumed it was only if you were in hitstun as you passed it.

:093:
 

ShinnyMetal

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I didn't know it was based off of taking damage and for a certain frame count. I assumed it was only if you were in hitstun as you passed it.

:093:
Probably would have been the assumption but it seems to be hard coded as dmg only, hitstun seems to be irrelevant.

That's mighty interesting and is something you have to watch out for with Ryu it seems
 
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Drigo Toes

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Probably would have been the assumption but it seems to be hard coded as dmg only, hitstun seems to be irrelevant.

That's mighty interesting and is something you have to watch out for with Ryu it seems
This is not completly correct, as Fox's Laser does not count for it.
 
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