Social Link checked the thread. Wow! This is a nice thread!

Elessar

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Elessar

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Imagine losing our newly gained D-throw combo/kill set up
This is not a kill setup in high level play. I was playing vs Zane and FSK yesterday as Ryu and I was able to DI away and avoid the "combo" and kill setup every single time. Uair is not guaranteed from dthrow if your opponent knows how to DI and I expecting it.
 

DUKEL

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Hey guys I'm at a tournament right now and have already played on stream during friendlies. I'm probably going to commentate, too. The stream is at twitch.tv/god_of_grumps if you're interested.

Edit: they're doing doubles now so check back in a bit

Also that tier list is the worst one I've ever seen.
 
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link7

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Hey guys I'm at a tournament right now and have already played on stream during friendlies. I'm probably going to commentate, too. The stream is at twitch.tv/god_of_grumps if you're interested.

Edit: they're doing doubles now so check back in a bit

Also that tier list is the worst one I've ever seen.
Good luck at the tourney.
 

ShinnyMetal

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DUKEL

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This is not a kill setup in high level play. I was playing vs Zane and FSK yesterday as Ryu and I was able to DI away and avoid the "combo" and kill setup every single time. Uair is not guaranteed from dthrow if your opponent knows how to DI and I expecting it.
It's not a guaranteed setup, but as I said in the meta game thread, his dthrow is very read heavy. If you find out how your opponent DIs and how they react , you can punish accordingly. That is what makes our new down throw good. It puts our opponent in a situation disadvantageous to them and we can then take advantage of that.
 
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Lawz.

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If someone mentions dthrow > uair as a true kill setup again I might lose my mind.
 

ShinnyMetal

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If someone mentions dthrow > uair as a true kill setup again I might lose my mind.
It definitely is a setup but it definitelu takes cooperation (trained or lack of skill) from the opponent. I hope people stop calling it true too....just like how jab was "infinite"
 

FSK

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I could say some words about dthrow uair and what is great about it if you guys want. First a disclaimer the frame numbers aren't completely accurate but more or less as in within a frame or two. I might redo the frame counts unless Foxy or Zelkam wants to do it instead. At least this is what I've found from extensive labbing and field testing(matches):

Let us take for instance a light character at 130% for instance sheik. When you dthrow sheik, sheik will be unable to do anything for 70 frames from the start of the dthrow. On frame 70 sheik is able to airdodge. On frame 76 sheik is able to double jump or input an attack. REGARDLESS of DI, Link will be able to reach his target within frame 76 with uair. If the opponent DIs away from Link it will take Link 75 frames to reach sheik. This means that it won't true combo, but sheiks ONLY option to avoid the strong hit is to airdodge. Luckily for us, uair lasts longer than an airdodge so if you follow sheiks trajectory you will eventually hit her with the weak hit. Which will KO around 120%-130% on most lighter characters.

Also if you have massive amounts of rage you can basically KO the whole cast before 100% and at this point it will true combo on most characters regardless of DI.

The input is important and the timing is strict. After the dthrow you have to buffer a dash, then on the first frame of the dash you have to jump and then uair as soon as possible after leaving the ground.

My controller setup allows me to do this pretty easily where I have L set to jump and I input the uair with the c-stick. I've been abusing this setup as much as I can and you will also be able to see it in use in my upcoming replays on my channel.

I'm pretty sure this is going to disappear in the next patch since people will complain about anything that is good about Link. So use it while you can gentlemen.

I should also mention that this setup is vulnerable to DI mixups in a sense. I do think you will have enough time to react on the DI of your opponent, but I'm really slow with my reactions so I'm not always able to do it. If you are not able to react on their DI then reading the DI is still possible. Since you fullhop your uair it will autocancel so your opponent will always be at the disadvantage, meaning it is also fairly safe to do.
 
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Zane the pure

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This is not a kill setup in high level play. I was playing vs Zane and FSK yesterday as Ryu and I was able to DI away and avoid the "combo" and kill setup every single time. Uair is not guaranteed from dthrow if your opponent knows how to DI and I expecting it.
D-throw to U-tilt is a combo at very specific %s, but D-throw to U-air is always a gamble. Think of it as a potential read, they airdodge? you wait and U-air them proper, they double jump? chase em down and regrab. No one should delude themselves into thinking we have a kill setup. (BTW Elessar, it was too laggy for me to make any sorta read off of it, so yeah, mos'def' not a combo, and totally fails in wifi.)

NO... stop it. bad scrubs.
 
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Elessar

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D-throw to U-tilt is a combo at very specific %s, but D-throw to U-air is always a gamble. Think of it as a potential read, they airdodge? you wait and U-air them proper, they double jump? chase em down and regrab. No one should delude themselves into thinking we have a kill setup. (BTW Elessar, it was too laggy for me to make any sorta read off of it, so yeah, mos'def' not a combo, and totally fails in wifi.)

NO... stop it. bad scrubs.
Yeah I know it was too laggy, it was laggy vs FSK as well. However, I didn't say that you can't combo them, just that it's not guaranteed, so it's not the answer to our prayers people make it up to be. You still need skill.
 

8MAN

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Yeah I know it was too laggy, it was laggy vs FSK as well. However, I didn't say that you can't combo them, just that it's not guaranteed, so it's not the answer to our prayers people make it up to be. You still need skill.
Which isn't all that bad, meaning FG scrubs can't abuse the living crap out it, lowering the chance that it'll be nerfed in the next patch.
 
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Lawz.

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Which isn't all that bad, meaning FG scrubs can't abuse the living crap out it, lowering the chance that it'll be nerfed in the next patch.
For Glory players generally don't know DI so to them, dthrow > uair will be a "broken hoo hah". So it probably will be patched.
 

Dumbfire

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Holy chit guys I was timed out by a Yoshi in tournament today, no ****ing way! Couldn't believe 8 minutes had passed already.
 

zeldasmash

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I find it funny that people complain that Link was a low tier character in every Smash game to date and demand that Sakurai buff him, but when he gets those buffs, people think he is overpowered because they lose to him online.
 

DUKEL

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Got 13th out of 22. Pretty disappointed, but every game came down to the last hit of the last stock, so I have definitely improved.

But I barely lost to a Pac Man comparable to (but not better than) Abadongo, and barely lost to a Kirby. (Apparently he falls out of our first hit of our fsmash? Which means he gets a free bair - which killed me in the last game)

All in all, I got better. Which is why i was at the tourney to begin with.
 

Rizen

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^It's funny people say he's the best Link based on youtube videos when he has no tourney results to back it up. Not 'funny ha ha'.

At the end of Brawl I think @LordXav1er was the best Link. @ X you should stop by the Link boards more often.
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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I could say some words about dthrow uair and what is great about it if you guys want. First a disclaimer the frame numbers aren't completely accurate but more or less as in within a frame or two. I might redo the frame counts unless Foxy or Zelkam wants to do it instead. At least this is what I've found from extensive labbing and field testing(matches):

Let us take for instance a light character at 130% for instance sheik. When you dthrow sheik, sheik will be unable to do anything for 70 frames from the start of the dthrow. On frame 70 sheik is able to airdodge. On frame 76 sheik is able to double jump or input an attack. REGARDLESS of DI, Link will be able to reach his target within frame 76 with uair. If the opponent DIs away from Link it will take Link 75 frames to reach sheik. This means that it won't true combo, but sheiks ONLY option to avoid the strong hit is to airdodge. Luckily for us, uair lasts longer than an airdodge so if you follow sheiks trajectory you will eventually hit her with the weak hit. Which will KO around 120%-130% on most lighter characters.

Also if you have massive amounts of rage you can basically KO the whole cast before 100% and at this point it will true combo on most characters regardless of DI.

The input is important and the timing is strict. After the dthrow you have to buffer a dash, then on the first frame of the dash you have to jump and then uair as soon as possible after leaving the ground.

My controller setup allows me to do this pretty easily where I have L set to jump and I input the uair with the c-stick. I've been abusing this setup as much as I can and you will also be able to see it in use in my upcoming replays on my channel.

I'm pretty sure this is going to disappear in the next patch since people will complain about anything that is good about Link. So use it while you can gentlemen.

I should also mention that this setup is vulnerable to DI mixups in a sense. I do think you will have enough time to react on the DI of your opponent, but I'm really slow with my reactions so I'm not always able to do it. If you are not able to react on their DI then reading the DI is still possible. Since you fullhop your uair it will autocancel so your opponent will always be at the disadvantage, meaning it is also fairly safe to do.
^ Quoted in the OP of the meta. Good job dude.
 

zeldasmash

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I really freaking hope to god that it doesn't get patched. It's not broken whatsoever and it requires skill to use correctly. To those that say that Link is OP online, try him offline with a player that knows what he/she is doing; chances are: you might get your *** handed to you. If Sheik, Queen of Smash 4, can keep throws that can lead into combos that last all day and can set up kills, then surely Link can keep his only decent throw from being butchered and suffer another undeserved nerf, like Jab 1's nerf.

If people though casuals were bad before, they are affecting character balancing, and to characters like Link, for the worse.

Also, about the SWF Community Tier List, even though i voted for it a few times, i find it to be absolutely horrible. We know Link got buffed, but not to the point where he is THAT high. And there are other questionable placings (As much as i hate Gay, he is nowhere near that low, same goes for Diddy and other characters). Why can't they open this up when people have had enough time developing with the characters now that they have changed with the patch? This can also affect balancing and most of the time it sucks because a bad character gets nerfed due to being placed to high and a good character gets buffed because he was placed too low.
 
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KenMeister

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I really freaking hope to god that it doesn't get patched. It's not broken whatsoever and it requires skill to use correctly. To those that say that Link is OP online, try him offline with a player that knows what he/she is doing; chances are: you might get your *** handed to you. If Sheik, Queen of Smash 4, can keep throws that can lead into combos that last all day and can set up kills, then surely Link can keep his only decent throw from being butchered and suffer another undeserved nerf, like Jab 1's nerf.

If people though casuals were bad before, they are affecting character balancing, and to characters like Link, for the worse.

Also, about the SWF Community Tier List, even though i voted for it a few times, i find it to be absolutely horrible. We know Link got buffed, but not to the point where he is THAT high. And there are other questionable placings (As much as i hate Gay, he is nowhere near that low, same goes for Diddy and other characters). Why can't they open this up when people have had enough time developing with the characters now that they have changed with the patch? This can also affect balancing and most of the time it sucks because a bad character gets nerfed due to being placed to high and a good character gets buffed because he was placed too low.
What I don't get is why they're having it open to the public to begin with. They should have votings split between the members of the Smash 4 backroom community like Melee and 64 does so things don't become a contradictive mess.
If anything, I feel the buffs were probably enough to throw Link back into mid tier, which is probably where he was at to begin with before 1.0.6.
 

zeldasmash

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What I don't get is why they're having it open to the public to begin with. They should have votings split between the members of the Smash 4 backroom community like Melee and 64 does so things don't become a contradictive mess.
If anything, I feel the buffs were probably enough to throw Link back into mid tier, which is probably where he was at to begin with before 1.0.6.
I personally think he is at the very bottom of high-mid, but i definitely agree with you. Plus, when a character gets too many +1's or -1's, they might end up either too high (Falco & Ike were among Top 15 at one point) or too low (Diddy was the worst character at one point..........DIDDY, and this was a few days ago) and that's what makes this entire thing a mess. They should just wait until after EVO so that hopefully a Smash 4 Back Room gets created and THEN open this up so THEY can vote on it and ONLY them.
 

A_Phoenix_Down

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"I'm the greatest Sonic player in Smash 4. In FG, I dash back and forth doing the same dash > up air combo so I'm unstoppable. But a guy using Link just kicked my ass so Link MUST be high tier"
 

FierceGaiety

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Am I the only one here who wants the old Dthrow trajectory back?
My fantasy was that they would alter the d-throw hitstun and kb to make dthrow>reverse ftilt> arrow (jab lock) actually work on more than just Bowser. That combo is way cool looking but just being able to actually use throws is pretty great to me so I'm cool with what we got.
 

MintyGuy700

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My fantasy was that they would alter the d-throw hitstun and kb to make dthrow>reverse ftilt> arrow (jab lock) actually work on more than just Bowser. That combo is way cool looking but just being able to actually use throws is pretty great to me so I'm cool with what we got.
I understand and all, I just kinda miss watching people instinctively air dodge into the ground and me getting a free Fsmash on them. Made them feel stupid and killed relatively early. Probably the most guilty pleasure I've have playing Link. lol
 

Dumbfire

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The big downside is that the knockback was so ridiculously bad before that simply DI-ing to the side meant it was useless on higher percents.
 
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