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Social Link checked the thread. Wow! This is a nice thread!

DarkDeity15

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I love H.L. Mencken's little burlesque on George Washington:
That was pretty amazing. I hope to be able to write like that someday.

Why don't you try to write something like that about us Link mains or even the Smash scene in general when you've got the spare time though? I know you have what it takes to do it.

Edit: So how do the buffs feel, you guys? How much improvement do you think Link has gone through since last patch, or even before that when he had jab 1 cancel?
 
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Dumbfire

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That was pretty amazing. I hope to be able to write like that someday.

Why don't you try to write something like that about us Link mains or even the Smash scene in general when you've got the spare time though? I know you have what it takes to do it.
I thought you were writing a book about Link in Sm4sh?

Mencken's colloquial style was purely American though, using all kinds of words from the American vernacular (which he first categorized in the seminal The American Language), and coining all kind of terms himself, usually sarcastically, like "booboisie", "ecdyiast" and the famous "bible belt". It really is one of a kind, very vigorous and full of gusto, sprinkled with onomatopoeia, journalistic in its directness and syntactically arranged into accumulating phrases (i.e. "the astoundingly grandiose and rococo manner of their statement, the almost unbelievable tediousness and flatulence of the gifted headmaster's prose, his unprecedented talent for saying nothing in an august and heroic manner"). His phrases "bristling with pungent epitaphs", "bedizned with tall talk" are all too typical. Imitators always fall short. George Jean Nathan (Mencken's partner in crime) was right, though, about using modern language, and using it well:
Since you are an American, write like an American. Do not try to become a member of the Charles Lamb’s Club and ape the so-called literary manner of the English critical essayists. Express yourself in the pungent idiom of your time, your land and your people; there is no apology necessary; that idiom may produce sound literature as well as the language of the dons. Don’t be afraid of slang if it will make your point better and more forcibly than literose expression. Much that was erstwhile slang has already been accepted into the dictionaries of formal English; much more will be accepted in the near future. The objection to slang, at least to the more valid slang, is snooty and snobbish. Where a more expressive word or phrase in the language than to cuckoo (in the sense of to imitate), sap, to get away with, bonehead, wow, to razz, joy-juice (for gin), to vamp, hickpricker, joy-ride or hoopla? But, on the other hand, don’t make the mistake of believing that a mere imitation of Brook, Indiana, will get you any farther than an imitation of Cambridge, England.
Actually in many of my own essays for school I was a gifted plagiarist, I'll post about it tomorrow. It was really rather beautiful -- I didn't need it, but it made me profoundly happy to get away with it.
 

smokebomb12

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I thought you were writing a book about Link in Sm4sh?

Mencken's colloquial style was purely American though, using all kinds of words from the American vernacular (which he first categorized in the seminal The American Language), and coining all kind of terms himself, usually sarcastically, like "booboisie", "ecdyiast" and the famous "bible belt". It really is one of a kind, very vigorous and full of gusto, sprinkled with onomatopoeia, journalistic in its directness and syntactically arranged into accumulating phrases (i.e. "the astoundingly grandiose and rococo manner of their statement, the almost unbelievable tediousness and flatulence of the gifted headmaster's prose, his unprecedented talent for saying nothing in an august and heroic manner"). His phrases "bristling with pungent epitaphs", "bedizned with tall talk" are all too typical. Imitators always fall short. George Jean Nathan (Mencken's partner in crime) was right, though, about using modern language, and using it well:

Actually in many of my own essays for school I was a gifted plagiarist, I'll post about it tomorrow. It was really rather beautiful -- I didn't need it, but it made me profoundly happy to get away with it.
How to you come up with dem poems so fast?
 

DarkDeity15

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I thought you were writing a book about Link in Sm4sh?

Mencken's colloquial style was purely American though, using all kinds of words from the American vernacular (which he first categorized in the seminal The American Language), and coining all kind of terms himself, usually sarcastically, like "booboisie", "ecdyiast" and the famous "bible belt". It really is one of a kind, very vigorous and full of gusto, sprinkled with onomatopoeia, journalistic in its directness and syntactically arranged into accumulating phrases (i.e. "the astoundingly grandiose and rococo manner of their statement, the almost unbelievable tediousness and flatulence of the gifted headmaster's prose, his unprecedented talent for saying nothing in an august and heroic manner"). His phrases "bristling with pungent epitaphs", "bedizned with tall talk" are all too typical. Imitators always fall short. George Jean Nathan (Mencken's partner in crime) was right, though, about using modern language, and using it well:

Actually in many of my own essays for school I was a gifted plagiarist, I'll post about it tomorrow. It was really rather beautiful -- I didn't need it, but it made me profoundly happy to get away with it.
Well I was thinking about it. I'm just not sure if it will be worth the time spent. I'm not even sure of what exactly to write about. Which would you like to see, more of an in-depth guide on how to play Link with our viewpoints, or some Link main history, or even a mix of both? One of my main worries though is whether someone would care enough to read it or not.

Though thank you for the pointers.
 
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DarkDeity15

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Roy seems very interesting so far. His Fsmash and Utilt are like throwbacks to Melee Link, only way better. Utilt is also a very reliable kill move like our own it seems, and Fsmash kills very early (it resembles Link's first Fsmash in previous iterations in terms of aesthetics). He also has a combo game consisting of strings like Sm4sh Link (though he has more true combos) and can even combo off of his jab. Dthrow also true combos into loads of stuff and his up special is a kill move very similar to our own aerial Spin Attack, though it has more vertical KB and kills somewhat earlier.

Roy looks like he should be played at least somewhat aggressively which I like in sword characters, is heavier, powerful, and has a really quick running speed. He isn't overly slow when attacking like Ike, he doesn't suck and has lots of combos unlike the Marths, and he doesn't take the amount of work Link does in order to play properly and win with at a high level. It's looking like I'm gunna have to say goodbye to Falcon as my main secondary lol. In fact, I'll switch them out right now.

:4feroy: all the way.
 

DarkDeity15

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You should write a guide.
Alright then I'll do just that.

Do you guys think it would be alright to make it into a thread, or should I post it here (where I doubt it would get the attention it deserves)? I'd prefer that it would be stickied so that everyone can have a look whenever they want. I'd also imagine that it would be pretty lengthy, so yeah. I might add some Link main history to the introduction, as I don't know everything about you guys, but will also be able to revise it based on your critiques and suggested information, so that gives me a lot of freedom with making the guide.

Edit: Keep in mind that it wouldn't be your average how-to-play kind of guide. There's going to be a lot more information than that. Anyways, I'll start on it today. I can't say when it'd be finished though lol.

How do you feel about this, Fox Is Openly Deceptive Fox Is Openly Deceptive ?
 
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The Merc

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See that you guys were also disappointed with E3.

Still, at least FE:Fates and FEx Shin Megami Tensei look cool. And Star Fox.

Still, wish they announced something bigger (like Zelda U or Wolf and Young Link for Sm4sh)
 

zeldasmash

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Star Fox was the only E3 worthy announcement they made, and the game looks great. It's not that the games looked bad (except that federation game who's name will not be mentioned), almost all of them looked good. The problem is that none of them are E3 hitters at all. XCX & SMT X FE are the only ones that come close to Star Fox for being worthy at E3, but in all honesty, they should have left them off for the Treehouse or for an exec at Nintendo to announce the release date.

Retro still hasn't announced anything yet, so i hope they get to announce something before the end of the week.
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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Alright then I'll do just that.

Do you think it would be alright to make it into a thread, or should I post it here (where I doubt it would get the attention it deserves)? I'd prefer that it would be stickied so that everyone can have a look whenever they want. I'd also imagine that it would be pretty lengthy, so yeah. I might add some Link main history to the introduction, as I don't know everything about you guys.

How do you feel about this, Fox Is Openly Deceptive Fox Is Openly Deceptive ?
Generally guides are written in their own thread. As for whether it gets stickied or locked and thrown out, that depends on how good the guide is, and the panel of judges is not easy to please I can assure you. Make it if you want, just know that there is a risk of it all being for naught.
Ok I have to be honest with you. I'm not sure how you intend to write about the Link main history when you've been around for such a short period of time. I'm also not sure how you intend to write a competitive level guide when you still don't have much competitive experience. Would someone be helping you write it? If so, then I nominate Sasook seeing as he was so keen on the idea. I'm sure he'd love to help. :p
 

DUKEL

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I'm more interested in seeing how they deal with the new stages tbh.

I'm personally for removing Lylat and replacing it with Dreamland 64.
 

DarkDeity15

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Generally guides are written in their own thread. As for whether it gets stickied or locked and thrown out, that depends on how good the guide is, and the panel of judges is not easy to please I can assure you. Make it if you want, just know that there is a risk of it all being for naught.
Ok I have to be honest with you. I'm not sure how you intend to write about the Link main history when you've been around for such a short period of time. I'm also not sure how you intend to write a competitive level guide when you still don't have much competitive experience. Would someone be helping you write it? If so, then I nominate Sasook seeing as he was so keen on the idea. I'm sure he'd love to help. :p
I'll keep this in mind. Originally I was planning on typing it up myself, but I'm all for him helping me out. How would that work, though? Would he be sending information out of the box, or will he only give info that I ask for or give help if I "need" anything? I'll be sure to send him a PM on the matter.
 

Elessar

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I'll keep this in mind. Originally I was planning on typing it up myself, but I'm all for him helping me out. How would that work, though? Would he be sending information out of the box, or will he only give info that I ask for or give help if I "need" anything? I'll be sure to send him a PM on the matter.
Why don't you PM him and arrange the details with him directly? You could even ask for is skype name so you two can voice chat for improved efficiency.
 

8MAN

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Whelp, even Nintendo acknowledged how lackluster their presentation was
 

DarkDeity15

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Why don't you PM him and arrange the details with him directly? You could even ask for is skype name so you two can voice chat for improved efficiency.
We have that sorted out already. I'll be coming up with all of the topics and writing and such, while I survey him for needed information. Skype does seem like a good idea though, so I messaged him about that recently.
 

DarkDeity15

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Hrmm...how about if (after the introduction) I started the guide off with a survey section of me asking Sook a few questions? Some wise words directly from the Link veteran himself. How does that sound?
 

Elessar

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I like how even DD called him "The" Link veteran. Sook is the Jesus to Arkive's God.
 

Dumbfire

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The video goes black at the 1:08 mark for me. Is just audio
Yes, there was a glitch while recording apparently. That footage will be forever lost. Befittingly so -- 'sook is too mighty to be captured by simple software. His skill lives on only in the minds and hearts of those who had the honor to face him.
 

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I thought you were writing a book about Link in Sm4sh?

Mencken's colloquial style was purely American though, using all kinds of words from the American vernacular (which he first categorized in the seminal The American Language), and coining all kind of terms himself, usually sarcastically, like "booboisie", "ecdyiast" and the famous "bible belt". It really is one of a kind, very vigorous and full of gusto, sprinkled with onomatopoeia, journalistic in its directness and syntactically arranged into accumulating phrases...
Sorry to bring us back to this, but I must comment that it is true in music, as well. No matter what I do and how I try to employ countless other cultures and eras of music, I cannot get away from composing like an American: large leaps, brash sounds, jazz idioms, etc. No amount of study and practice in Italian renaissance, German and English Baroque, Internationalist Classicism, or the explosion of nationalist veins in the romantic era (Russian, Polish, Czeck, FInnish, and French, to name a few) can drown out the American noise that claws its way out of my fingertips and onto the staff (and those are only the western influences!). I strive for an international sound and try to employ cultural techniques in new ways to promote a freed, unified musical language, but even this endeavor strikes me as remarkably American, now that I actually look at it in writing. Try as I might to fight this, I've eventually come to embrace it.

Anyway, here I go to be inactive for another 10+ pages. Good seeing everyone.
 

Dumbfire

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Sorry to bring us back to this, but I must comment that it is true in music, as well. No matter what I do and how I try to employ countless other cultures and eras of music, I cannot get away from composing like an American: large leaps, brash sounds, jazz idioms, etc. No amount of study and practice in Italian renaissance, German and English Baroque, Internationalist Classicism, or the explosion of nationalist veins in the romantic era (Russian, Polish, Czeck, FInnish, and French, to name a few) can drown out the American noise that claws its way out of my fingertips and onto the staff (and those are only the western influences!). I strive for an international sound and try to employ cultural techniques in new ways to promote a freed, unified musical language, but even this endeavor strikes me as remarkably American, now that I actually look at it in writing. Try as I might to fight this, I've eventually come to embrace it.

Anyway, here I go to be inactive for another 10+ pages. Good seeing everyone.
Charles Ives is the typical American composer in that regard, right? Even his philosophy was inspired by the American transcendentalists. His prose carries the American spirit too actually, in Essays Before a Sonata:
It has seemed to the writer, that Emerson is greater—his identity more complete perhaps—in the realms of revelation—natural disclosure—than in those of poetry, philosophy, or prophecy. Though a great poet and prophet, he is greater, possibly, as an invader of the unknown,—America's deepest explorer of the spiritual immensities,—a seer painting his discoveries in masses and with any color that may lie at hand—cosmic, religious, human, even sensuous; a recorder, freely describing the inevitable struggle in the soul's uprise—perceiving from this inward source alone, that every "ultimate fact is only the first of a new series"; a discoverer, whose heart knows, with Voltaire, "that man seriously reflects when left alone," and would then discover, if he can, that "wondrous chain which links the heavens with earth—the world of beings subject to one law." In his reflections Emerson, unlike Plato, is not afraid to ride Arion's Dolphin, and to go wherever he is carried—to Parnassus or to "Musketaquid."
 

DarkDeity15

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Survey's done. This will be all the information I need for now. It's been edited and all that. I've also decided for the survey to be part of the intro. Would you guys like to see the survey? @ sasook sasook 's got some pretty interesting things to say. It's a pleasure to work with him to say the least.

Alright, so here it is. Enjoy:

~So for the first question, what was it like to main Link in Brawl back in the day?

"Well, I was inspired by some other veterans, particularly Shin. He was my role model, and in many ways taught me a lot about Link and the Link community."

~How long have you been a Link veteran, and how did you end up maining Link?

"I main him because he's freakin' Link of course. As for the veteran part, I quit Brawl in 2011."

~But when did you begin playing Smash competitively? What year comes to mind?

"Ooh, that way, sorry. 2008."

~It happens to the best of us lol. Compared to Link in Brawl, how do you think Link fares in Sm4sh? What was it like transitioning from Brawl to Sm4sh?

"Oh boy, where to begin......he's loads better in this game, for sure, in almost every way. The transition felt like a godsend. Even now he's better than in Brawl, even after the patches. The only negative aspect was how many ATs we lost."

~When learning how to play Link in Sm4sh, what are some of the most important things someone should remember that comes to mind?

"Stop limiting yourself to one mindset. He's been given a whole moveset, not half a moveset, so utilize all his tools. That means not just spam but [his] CQC game too. Yeah the jab thing hurts but its not everything. He has plenty of other sword moves."

~How high do you think Link's skill cap is in Sm4sh? Would you say that he has the highest one?-

"His learning curve is ridiculous, so I'd actually say he's always had the highest skill cap of any char[acter]. That's why no one's been able to play him to his full potential. If people could, he'd be a few tiers higher, easily. Upper mid tier, minimum."

~This isn't a very relevant question, I'm just being curious here. But if you could change anything about Sm4sh Link, what would you change?

"Like, metagame related? Or just, anything? lol"

~Pretty much anything lol.-

"Honestly? His SSB visuals lol. I wanted SS, not TP Link again."

~Do you have any stories or experiences in competitive Brawl that you would like to share?

"Hmmm.....I'm not sure what to say, nothing particularly amazing comes to mind. Although, in my first tourney, I had a huge crowd behind me, because, well, Link. People like Link. But hardly anyone had the guts to stay with him. His skill cap's too high, learning curve too much. Most give up."

~Personally, would you say that it's a good thing or a bad thing that Link's skill cap is so high?

"Well, like that earlier question, it clearly means he has untapped potential, so it's a good thing. It's only bad because it makes people think he's worse than he is."

~Hrmm...I forgot what my last question was lol. I need some sleep after this...
Oh yeah. How did maining Link competitively for so many years, especially in Brawl affect you as a player or even as a person? For example, would you say that he made you a better player in general?

"To be honest, playing Link was sometimes such a struggle, I was on the verge of being completely hopeless. But I didn't give up, I kept going. And eventually, after so much effort, after so much hard work, I started to see results. And that's when I realized, if I tried hard enough, if I put in enough time, if I built enough confidence, I had it in me to do anything. And I'd say that was pretty powerful for me, because that carried over to the rest of my personality too. So yes, it did make me a better person."
 
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incrediblej

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people on the tink boards are saying he feels like he got nerfed a bit which is sad but I play tink and link for fun on sm4sh, I was glad that ness was buffed, lucario is the same and not sure about pika, did any of your guys main get buffed other than link
 
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Dumbfire

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Btw I said yesterday I'd post today about my errant plagiarism. I did not need to -- in fact I had an easy 8/10 for Dutch language with 9s and 10s for written tasks, but it pleased me so much. My teacher hated English literature you see, she forced us to read only Dutch things and shunned all things English. Then, once, I got the brilliant idea to translate some work for her, making her think it is Dutch and praising it, not knowing it was actually something English originally. But wait--! Why hadn't I thought of that before? What an extraordinary opportunity for plagiarism! When you plagiarize something Dutch she'd easily find out: she'd google it, or have read it already, or recognize the prose could not be yours. But when you translate passages yourself from English, you retain something of the the original's powerful imagery and pathos, also a bit of its style and syntax, yet you make it untraceable and put yourself into it a little too. My essays became patchworks of brilliant but obscure passages taken from English writers -- essays, letters, remarks scattered here and there, long forgotten -- sewn together with some of my own writing. Naturally, it was brilliant.

Here is an example. I had to write about authors and compare them to teachers or something -- I don't remember the exact context, but it was easy regardless. I took this maxim from Jorge Louis Borges spoken in one of his lectures (that was obviously not even English originally):
One of a writer’s most important works—perhaps the most important of all—is the image he leaves of himself in the memory of men, above and beyond the pages he has written.
Then I took a little passage from a neat little Stevenson essay on books which influenced him:
I do not know that you learn a lesson; you need not—Mill did not—agree with any one of his beliefs; and yet the spell is cast. Such are the best teachers: a dogma learned is only a new error—the old one was perhaps as good; but a spirit communicated is a perpetual possession. These best teachers climb beyond teaching to the plane of art; it is themselves, and what is best in themselves, that they communicate.
Then I took this Ruskin maxim:
Great men do not play stage tricks with the doctrines of life and death; only little men do that.
Followed by this beautiful passage by Ruskin from The Eagle's Nest:
None of us yet know, for none of us have yet been taught in early youth, what fairy palaces we may build of beautiful thought—proof against all adversity: bright fancies, satisfied memories, noble histories, faithful sayings, treasure-houses of precious and restful thoughts, which care cannot disturb, nor pain make gloomy, nor poverty take away from us—houses, built without hands, for our souls to live in.
All sewn together, it read something like this (in Dutch of course):
One of a writer’s most important works—perhaps the most important of all—is the image he leaves of himself in the memory of men, above and beyond the pages he has written. Such are the best teachers: a dogma learned is only a new error—the old one was perhaps as good; but a spirit communicated is a perpetual possession. I do not know whether I ever learned a lesson; you need not agree with any one of a teacher's beliefs, and yet the spell is cast. Thus the best teachers in my life were not the mathematics tutor who got me to familiarize myself with linear algebra, or the English teacher who taught me the proper position of particles: the best ones were the wise men from ages past, or the most charming women, or the restless workers in the Canadian forests. These best teachers climb beyond teaching to the plane of art; it is themselves, and what is best in themselves, that they communicate. Some say authors cannot have that role: they do not communicate themselves, because their image as author is cultivated an fake: it is how they choose to project themselves onto the reader, not who they actually are. I find this a vulgar nation. Great men do not play stage tricks with the doctrines of life and death; only little men do that.

They taught me too, these teachers, what fairy palaces we may build of beautiful thought—proof against all adversity: bright fancies, satisfied memories, noble histories, faithful sayings, treasure-houses of precious and restful thoughts, which care cannot disturb, nor pain make gloomy, nor poverty take away from us—houses, built without hands, for our souls to live in.
And there, within a minute or three, I had written a passage of astounding quality. As long as you already know fine passages, and could translate them decently, you were good to go. It was hardcore fraud -- plagiarism of the vilest kind -- but God I loved it.

The only issue was, what to do 'live', when I have to write on the spot? Could I match the brilliance? Why yes, I could! I love these passages, I have many in my head, close to memorized, and numerous poems from which I could also borrow actually memorized. Here's something I once wrote 'live' (again, in Dutch):
I is not likely I will ever see such poor men and women again -- yet we will never cease, nor be prevented from returning on the wings of imagination to that bright dream of our youth; that glad dawn of the day-star of liberty; that spring-time of the world, in which the hopes and expectations of the human race seemed opening in the same gay career with our own; when France called her children to partake her equal blessings beneath her laughing skies! No longer shall I be the man who dejectedly takes his seat upon the intellectual throne, no longer shall I vainly preach from the charming haunts of ancient philosophy what has been vainly preached before. The ideal has been built on the actual; no longer floats vaguely in darkness and regions of dreams, but rests in light, on the firm ground of human interest and business, as in its true scene, and on its true basis.

I met a charming girl there too, and though I only saw her a brief moment at first that first look is still how I will remember her. The smile which sank into my heart the first time I ever beheld her, plays round her lips ever after: the look with which her eyes first met mine, never passed away. She had something of angelic light...
What a bunch of sentimental trash! There's no way I'd ever write something like that myself. But I could steal it, and certain sentimentally inclined teachers would love it. Nothing in this paragraph was actually mine. The first part is from this passage which I have quoted before (it's one of my favorites, which is why I know it so well):
But though we cannot weave over again the airy, unsubstantial dream, which reason and experience have dispelled,

"What thong' the radiance, which was once so bright,
Be now for ever taken from our sight,
Though nothing can bring back the hour
Of glory in the grass, of splendour in the flower:" --

yet we will never cease, nor be prevented from returning on the wings of imagination to that bright dream of our youth; that glad dawn of the day-star of liberty; that spring-time of the world, in which the hopes and expectations of the human race seemed opening in the same gay career with our own; when France called her children to partake her equal blessings beneath her laughing skies; when the stranger was met in all her villages with dance and festive songs, in celebration of a new and golden era; and when, to the retired and contemplative student, the prospects of human happiness and glory were seen ascending like the steps of Jacob's ladder, in bright and never-ending succession. The dawn of that day was suddenly overcast; that season of hope is past; it is fled with the other dreams of our youth, which we cannot recall, but has left behind it traces, which are not to be effaced by Birth-day and Thanksgiving odes, or the chaunting of Te Deums in all the churches of Christendom. To those hopes eternal regrets are due; to those who maliciously and wilfully blasted them, in the fear that they might be accomplished, we feel no less what we owe-hatred and scorn as lasting!
The next passage, which goes something like "No longer shall I be the man who dejectedly takes his seat upon the intellectual throne, no longer shall I vainly preach from the charming haunts of ancient philosophy what has been vainly preached before" was even more interesting: it's a conglomeration of phrases by three different poets. The first one is from Matthew Arnold’s Scholar Gipsy which I had just read:

and amongst us one,​
Who most has suffer'd, takes dejectedly
His seat upon the intellectual throne;

The "vainly preached before" part is from Byron's Ode to Napoleon Bonaparte. It so happens I had listened to Schönberg’s Ode to Napoleon Bonaparte the day before, which is a setting of Byron’s eponymous poem, in which these lines are to be found: --

[Napoleon’s fall] will teach​
To after-warriors more,
Than high Philosophy can preach,
And vainly preach'd before.

Then I added a phrase of Coleridge’s making: “The haunt obscure of old Philosophy” – from his Tombless Epitaph.The next passage is from Carlyle, again a favorite of mine so I knew it well:
Anarchy has become peace; the once gloomy and perturbed spirit is now serene, cheerfully vigorous, and rich in good fruits … The ideal has been built on the actual; no longer floats vaguely in darkness and regions of dreams, but rests in light, on the firm ground of human interest and business, as in its true scene, and on its true basis.
Then the passage on love is Hazlitt's again, on Petrarch:
The smile which sank into his heart the first time he ever beheld her, played round her lips ever after: the look with which her eyes first met his, never passed away.
The "angelic light" nonsense is from Wordsworth's famous poem She Was a Phantom of Delight:

She was a phantom of delight
When first she gleamed upon my sight;
A lovely apparition, sent
To be a moment’s ornament
… with something of angelic light.
The greatest pay-off came when finally I could show my teacher some of my essays, and point to the many paragraphs I had lifted almost verbatim. She was shocked. Went through the class effortless for 2 full years, plagiarizing left and right, basically just to troll the teacher. You folks taught me well LOL If you ever need to plagiarize, and happen to know a second language, put it to use!
 
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