Social Link checked the thread. Wow! This is a nice thread!

[Drunken_Master]

If you don't believe they'd do it, you underestimate Sakurai's hatred for Link.

If this happens we'll be crippled.

 

[Lúcio]

If you don't believe they'd do it, you underestimate Sakurai's hatred for Link.

If this happens we'll be crippled.

personally i'm not a very "grabby" player and i seldom use bombs so it wouldn't affect me greatly.
although i'm always looking to improve myself as a player since online play is very new to me - takingh away those advanced techniques would be very harsh on a character that isn't OP in the slightest.

fair enough if they took away little mac's KO punch but it would seem very odd indeed to randomly downgrade link for no real reason.

 

[Naroghin]

I agree that we certainly can compare them in the sense that there's really nothing stopping us and because they do share some very general things e.g. they are video games, they have Link as the protagonist, they have music, they have story etc, and in this way we are certainly able to compare them, but does it nonetheless make sense for us to compare them? I don't think it does because more than often it will be pointless. To make my point clearer, and I admit that this may involve a slightly more extreme example (which is still helpful for making the point so long as it is used to highlight the differences I'm talking about and not used as a strict comparison), take for example the super mario rpg's or the side scrolling super mario world's and try to compare them with the 3D adventures like super mario 64 or super mario galaxy. Sure you can feel free to compare them, but you'd have to do so at such a general and restricted level that there is no longer much point in doing so, and more to the point, the comparison would be at all times at great risk of being influenced by personal experiences which while helpful in a more specific discussion (such as comparing OoT with SS) would only be detrimental when having a very restricted discussion like the one you correctly proposed. It comes down to a fairly well known idea in philosophy that most supposed 'arguments' and differences of opinion stem from two people thinking they are talking about the same thing whereas in fact they are actually talking about different things, and if they both fully understood what the other was talking about, more than often they would find that they actually agree. Comparing two games from different genres is much like this; it's difficult and it often ultimately doesn't say much; it leads to pointless discussions where people wrongly believe they have different opinions about the same thing etc. To clarify, I do actually agree with you; it is possible to compare the two and even discuss what is the more desired/effective genre etc. Earlier for example I said that the 3D games are better at telling stories and better at character development almost necessarily because of the more personal nature of the camera angle and what this allows the developers to do; I even said that the top-down games are allowed to have more difficult puzzles due to the camera angle necessarily allowing for this because it gives you more information etc. These are both examples of comparisons that can be discussed. But I would stress the difficulty in having such a conversation and the restricted use that you could even make of any such agreements. If two people wanted to talk about whether OoT or SS had a better story, then they can go for it; but if someone said that OoT had a better story than say Oracle of Seasons, couldn't the other guy just say, "So what?". Maybe the other guy wasn't going into that game wanting a good story necessarily, or maybe it was secondary to what he wanted to get out of it. And that's because there is a difference in genres. The two guys will just be talking past each other because neither agrees on what they want to get out of a game, what they believe makes a game good, yet for some reason they assume that the other person means that same thing as they do when they say 'good game'. If instead one of them said "If the definition of a good game included a good story (so on and so on explaining what they believe is a good game) then OoT would be better than OoS" then they would both agree on this and instead of comparing the two games they would have a discussion on the underlying difference of opinion being what makes a game good. I'm sure I could explain this better...

Thinking we may need a separate thread for this altogether...

I should have added I was speaking much more about one deciding on one's own preferences than objective discussion between multiple parties, but if everything is defined then it should still be possible.

In either case, comparing them is not pointless. The idea of "which genre is better for what" can certainly be decided on. How well a certain game in said genre "employs its given medium" can certainly be decided on. One could understandably then say "Game A achieves its given purpose (as defined/agreed upon by both parties, as you mentioned) better than does Game B." I would also posit that this form of comparison would be much more meaningful than what we typically see in current media. This is because the question moves from: "Which game has stronger graphics?" in which a comparison would be pointless, to: "Which game uses its graphics to greater effect?"

In other words, separate items can be rated on individual scales based on what we may agree they are meant to achieve, and then those individual "scores" may be compared to see which is better. In this way any two things can be compared. We must just be willing to follow a long and complicated process to do so, which is admittedly where the discussion approaches "pointless." However, it is possible to approach "pointless" on the other side of the spectrum as well. Where arguments that are increasingly complicated become pointless because of the amount of effort required, arguments that are increasingly simple become pointless because they are obvious and need no deliberation. Obviously a compromise can and should be met; guess which side of the spectrum I tend to rest on, haha.

 

[Zane the pure]

on For Glory is soo braindead, nothing but motorcycle enthusiasts with horrible B.O. as far as the eye can see...
When a single move invalidates every single option except counter you get .

Also, play on jungle japes, tether the ledge from reeeeaally far and enjoy the craziness. Ledge getup, attack, roll, hop, and even staying tethered is hilarious.

 

[rd1023]

I always used main default Link, feels weird to play any other color though I rarely see default Links out there.

 

[Rizen]

I always used default color for my character but that might change with SSB4.
Sorry I haven't posted much. I'm kind of depressed the last few days :/

 

[Unkown Hero]

Yeah I couldn't agree more. Let's just say I was happy I was alone at the time.

So was I. I'm glad that I'm not the only person who actually likes Fi.

 

[Elessar]

i battled a red-tunic link earlier and it made me think of you :D
i hope it wasn't actually you though because he/she wasn't very good...

No it wasn't me. I don't play For Glory. Also, my name is Elessar on the 3DS, so you would have read that name.

And when I though she was gone, she came back and said one line that I will remember forever

"May we meet again in another life"

I tried not to cry, but I couldn't, it just felt wrong not to cry.

Dammit, right int he feels. I'm at work man, why do you do this to me...

 

[Demacrez]

uhhh, can we talk about how sick link's dair is now? i miss dair's killing strength, but styling on kids with the dair's spike is so sick

Yo, what's up Shadow Link, I'm back!

And speaking of DAir, I saved a replay against a Dedede where I DAir'ed him, bounced off the floor, and did a screen splat. It was amazballs.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Just faced a really good Shiek player named PICK. 1st match I got rekt, then the other 3 matches I managed to beat him (not 2-stocking him, though). I don't have the replays (sadly), but I read that Shiek so hard. For EX: If he used side-b, I proceeded to punish him for it. If he tried to usmash, I spot dodge and pull a Jab combo on him. I spaced him and baited him and combo'd him like crazy. In other words, the matches brought out the absolute best in me.
Oh, if only I had saved those replay. I'm super depressed, now...
@ScizorVX I want to believe you, but then I don't. I guess we'll know for sure once the WiiU version comes out, I guess... :/

 

[Elessar]

I don't believe Scizor for the same reason Fox mentioned. If it was true, then this would have popped somewhere else on the boards because it ia a major change to many chars, not only Link.

Now, if ultimately it's proven to be true, then so be it, there's nothing to do. And personally, I like safe aerials so it's not a real nerf.

 

[Drunken_Master]

 

[Rizen]

^The Four Sword picture is technically incorrect. Just saying.

 

[Lúcio]

^The Four Sword picture is technically incorrect. Just saying.

there's always one....

 

[Mocha]

Nice artwork, thanks for sharing it (:

I never played Four Swords, but how does the Master Sword thing work with... four swords? Four Master Swords seems kind of overkill, doesn't it?

 

[Deleted member]

^The Four Sword picture is technically incorrect. Just saying.

To be fair, the Master Sword was unlockable in the anniversary edition.

 

[Bomber7]

I feel like I missed something important. :l

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

I really should stop lurking here. Welp hi guys, bye guys!

 

[DavemanCozy]

So in regards to the item toss Landing-lag cancel:

Sorry, but Scizor is not a troll. Unfortunately, I can confirm it is true that the Wii U version doesn't have it. I went to a tournament last night in Toronto, one of the players got a copy of the game early (Nintendo has been giving some members of the community early copies up here in Canada, particularly members who have done a great service to their major smash communities. The only I can mention is Pidge, since she already made it public and posted a photo of her with the box on her FB profile). They let the participants play friendlies (8-player mode is balls to the wall chaotic, btw), but the conditions were we couldn't take video nor pictures of game footage to avoid getting in crap with Nintendo. Hence, I have no footage to show, and I also can't reveal anything besides character data.

I guess you'll all have to take our word for it, but I can confirm: Unfortunately, no item toss landing-lag cancel exists in Wii U. I dunno if the big N is planning to update this through an online update: they did say all the 3DS tactics would work in Wii U in the direct. But since the game isn't supposed to be officially released in NA yet, we'll have to wait and see whether this remains permanent or not.

 

[FSK]

Then I would like to welcome all the Link mains to yet another bottom tier...

time to switch mains

 

[DavemanCozy]

Hey now, the only thing we lose is Arrow -> Bomb toss and the situational catch bomb with aerial move -> land and toss. And while this does make him slightly worse, he has much more going for him in this game.

Lol, if anything, I feel worse for Peach mains. Just imagine, they basically lost their version of Float-Cancelling in this game.

 

[Deleted member]

Then I would like to welcome all the Link mains to yet another bottom tier...

time to switch mains

Now it's Shulk time! This is the power of the Monado!

In all seriousness, regardless of what the tier lists say, I WILL still play as Link often when I eventually purchase the Wii U version.

 

[Drunken_Master]

****ing damnit. Why can't Link have nice things, ever?

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Hey, we can still cancel air dodge lag with his specials (air dodge into ground>Side/Up/Down B), right? RIGHT??
*Desperation Intensifies*

 

[Zane the pure]

bleh, who's to say it's not patched out of the 3ds version on launch day, or patched in to wii-u eventually?
Way too early to be absolutely sure. Thank you Scizor for the update, and with all due respect I hope you are wrong

I don't really care if he's even worse than , I'm still going all in tournament. My reason for playing him isn't swayed by how he plays or how he stacks up in any matchup.

@ Rizen I sure hope you've found something to cheer you up buddy, depression sucks major ballz.
how about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52ZvMdclxAM

 

[Los4Muros]

Ok Quick and forbidden question here. How's Link looking for the Tier List? He seems pretty strong, although pretty slow. But the bomb recovery is amazing, gives him a giant advantage, cuz I thought his recovery was his main weak point.

 

[Rizen]

@ Zane thanks, that's always a great vid

Nice artwork, thanks for sharing it (:

I never played Four Swords, but how does the Master Sword thing work with... four swords? Four Master Swords seems kind of overkill, doesn't it?

The 'Four Sword' is a different legendary sword than the 'Master Sword'. It makes whoever pulls it into 4 copies with different colored tunics. So technically Fi isn't the Four Sword and that part of the illustration is inaccurate.


Even if Link loses the item cancel, he still is much better than he was in Brawl. He has very few landing lag frames and lag's been added to all characters.
http://i.imgur.com/t80TyRa.png
http://smashboards.com/threads/guide-its-freakin-link-a-look-at-link-in-smash-4.368190/page-2#post-17728377

 

[FSK]

Hey now, the only thing we lose is Arrow -> Bomb toss and the situational catch bomb with aerial move -> land and toss. And while this does make him slightly worse, he has much more going for him in this game.

Lol, if anything, I feel worse for Peach mains. Just imagine, they basically lost their version of Float-Cancelling in this game.

no no no no, we lose way way way more than that. Down-b cancelling was the new big thing for Link that kept him unpredictable and gave him options despite his nerfs. Now we have nothing left. And we can't get out of multihit moves now anymore either ;-;

these are all gone now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZTmlgIA2tI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOFUL6qHZJ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4JHstl3ido

 

[Mocha]

@ Zane thanks, that's always a great vid

The 'Four Sword' is a different legendary sword than the 'Master Sword'. It makes whoever pulls it into 4 copies with different colored tunics. So technically Fi isn't the Four Sword and that part of the illustration is inaccurate.


Even if Link loses the item cancel, he still is much better than he was in Brawl. He has very few landing lag frames and lag's been added to all characters.
http://i.imgur.com/t80TyRa.png
http://smashboards.com/threads/guide-its-freakin-link-a-look-at-link-in-smash-4.368190/page-2#post-17728377

Oh ok, thanks for clarifying. Really need to play these handhelds more <.<

Would feel kind of bad for Ganondorf if he had to deal with 4 Master Swords...

 

[Elessar]

Well, then I guess that the title of this thread has just become a whole lot more appropriate.

I have to wonder though, why take this away? Why "fix" it? I mean, it was broken, and it wasn't abusable...so why take this away but still leave other things in?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

That's what I keep wondering. We weren't doing any harm. Yet. So why fix what isn't broken? It was good, and interesting, but not broken by any account.
This game is going to be so dull without glitches.
In before people discover things and keep it to themselves for fear of having it patched. This is so stupid.

 

[Drunken_Master]

Because Sakurai hates Zelda. As he always has.

 

[Naroghin]

Seems to be, anyway. Z Tier for life!

 

[_Relapse_]

I use Water Tunic Link pretty much every fight.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Gold Link is bess Link

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

For what it's worth:

Important Note:

YES, the tether animations for Link and Toon Link are different in the Wii U version. The chain hits the floor if you miss, like in Brawl. HOWEVER, the recovery speed is the same. It's not slower because of this, it's just a different animation for the more high def Wii U version.

 

[Lúcio]

well this is disappointing :/

on the whole though link is a lovely upgrade from previous smash iterations.
i'll still use him as my main and i still think he's better than toon link (in my opinion).

toon link has no strong dash attack and i don't like how restrictive his Dair is with movement - it annoys me how toon link's dair can become predictable and hindering but link's can be excellent and a great move to have.
i would however say that even though link's gale boomerang is great in the right hands, i do like how toon link's can disruptthem on the way back and give you an opening.

 

[Lúcio]

For what it's worth:

that's just dumb.
why would they change it at all if it has the same recovery speed?
the 3ds and wii u smash bros 4 is meant to be the same game (in terms of actualy gameplay), merely on different platforms.
what's the point changing something so insignificant like that?

also if link's grab animation is the clawshot, why would it hit the floor at all - isn't that item pretty taut in general?

 

[Rizen]

^The Wii U version has better graphics so Nintendo added a little extra animation to look better. It has the same properties in gameplay. This probably applies to other moves too.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Toon Link got way better use out of the BLC because he was able to throw and re-catch the bomb in various ways allowing for fluid approaches that came naturally out of his spam game. It was a necessary tech for him. (I don't feel like explaining further this one time, so just trust me.) What this means is that now, well I'd have to agree; Link is most likely better than Toon Link now.

[I predict that Toon's will end up using short fuse bombs now as there is basically no reason why not to any more; one big reason why people hadn't picked it up in droves previously was because you couldn't abuse the BLC with a short fuse. Adapt to survive. It's the only way forward. He'll be a stage control character or something.]