Let's talk about L-Canceling.

[Yodery]

omg liek i totes <3 l-cancelling doe it makes me feel like im playn so kumpeteetuvlee!!!111

 

[Jockmaster]

I think it's funny how a lot of the people who are against l-canceling probably can't do it

Like...that's not my argument or anything, it's just funny. Pretty much it just seems like its too tough or something so they want it removed

Sakurai is pandering to you guys for the record. Brawl***s are the reason Brawl sucks. You got what you asked for mother****ers

/rant

 

[Biz_R_0]

HEy EVERYONE, I HAVE AN UNPOPULAR OPINION AND AM NOT BEING SUBTLE ABOUT IT!!

GET MAD AT MEEEEEEEEEEeEEEEEEEEEEE!

 

[Wobbly Headed Bob]

I kind of wish Biz_R_0 died.

 

[-LzR-]

Lcanceling isn't hard guys. It's not what makes Melee harder than Brawl. The biggest factor is probably the lack of buffering. Why don't you argue about if buffering should return or not?

 

[DrinkingFood]

Oh boy don't get me started on that

 

[Biz_R_0]

I disagree with your opinion.

FIGHT!

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I think it's funny how a lot of the people who are against l-canceling probably can't do it

Like...that's not my argument or anything, it's just funny. Pretty much it just seems like its too tough or something so they want it removed

Sakurai is pandering to you guys for the record. Brawl***s are the reason Brawl sucks. You got what you asked for mother****ers

/rant

Nah, I float cancel most of the time over it.

That said, L canceling is not a good mechanic over just cutting cooldown on landing in half.

 

[Vkrm]

It should be manual. That lets better players win more often.

 

[Yodery]

Like I said, I love l-cancelling, 'cause it makes me feel like I'm playing so technically and competitively, and... wait, what?

 

[Vkrm]

Like I said, I love l-cancelling, 'cause it makes me feel like I'm playing so technically and competitively, and... wait, what?

Are you trying to make fun of competitive play? Good luck with that. I really doubt that's going to help the discusion one way or another.

 

[Biz_R_0]

ITT: The same argument over and over again.

 

[Yodery]

Are you trying to make fun of competitive play? Good luck with that. I really doubt that's going to help the discusion one way or another.

Nope, just the elitists.

 

[Vkrm]

ITT: The same argument over and over again.

Who won it last time? I must sound really smug, lol. Im genuinely curious. I for one still feel manual canceling is vastly superior.

 

[Yodery]

... This thread is like the Religion & Spirituality section on Yahoo! Answers, dead ***.

 

[Vkrm]

Nope, just the elitists.

What about wanting a skill based game makes me elitist?

 

[Biz_R_0]

Who won it last time? I must sound really smug, lol. Im genuinely curious.

If I say anyone but you you'll respond with "no I won (cellphone image)". And, yes, you're a smug ***, go back to reddit with the rest of your kind.

 

[Vkrm]

I didn't really win it, but i felt as though i was on the winning side. Towards the end I was doing more harm then anything else so I decided to leave it up to other posters.

 

[Biz_R_0]

And then came back for no reason to respond seriously to joke posts. It's okay, I understand that redditors lack senses of humor.

 

[Kink-Link5]

If I say anyone but you you'll respond with "no I won (cellphone image)". And, yes, you're a smug ***, go back to reddit with the rest of your kind.

Woah woah woah, there's no need for insulting L-canceling supporters like that.

Reddit is hell incarnate

Giving players free block advantage, pressure, and reward is not the way to go about addressing the issues with L-canceling.

 

[Biz_R_0]

By "the rest of his kind" I meant redditors, not pro-L Cancel...guys.

 

[DrinkingFood]

What Kink said.

 

[JOE!]

Just to reiterate: I don't like Lcanceling as it exists currently, as it is kinda arbitrary past a certain point in performing it. That said, there should be a manual method of getting this advantage, just not as black and white as Melee's version.

 

[Vkrm]

Never been on reddit. L canceling does exactly what it was intended for. People in this thread tried to come up with workarounds that function, but nothing so good that it should replace traditional manual canceling. I don't really see where all the hate comes from. Whats wrong with rewarding the player with better execution? Maybe if I played brawl, I'd also see it as arbitrary......

 

[Biz_R_0]

Never been on reddit. L canceling does exactly what it was intended for. People in this thread tried to come up with workarounds that function, but nothing so good that it should replace traditional manual canceling. I don't really see where all the hate comes from. Whats wrong with rewarding the player with better execution? Maybe if I played brawl, I'd also see it as arbitrary......

Like I said:

If I say anyone but you you'll respond with "no I won (cellphone image)".

 

[-LzR-]

Lcanceling has like, very little to do with who is the better player.

 

[Sephirothxxx]

Everyone in this thread that thinks L Cancelling should be removed really sucks at smash.

That has got to be the most intelligent post I've ever read on smash boards.

L cancelling better make a return. That would make my day.
EDIT: Also, LZR makes a great point when he says that L cancelling doesnt decide who is the better player. L cancelling is just a technique, and a rather simple one at that. While some players may feel "pro" when they finally master the technique, it's really their overall skill that determines anything. That should be obvious to anyone.

 

[Vkrm]

Lcanceling has like, very little to do with who is the better player.

I didn't say it did. The player with better tech will get more out of it.

 

[-LzR-]

And obviously the player who can do the chaingrab or fluent wavedashes has a clear advantage over the opponent, but it doesn't really mean you are a better player, though obviously they will win more because of the reward these techniques offer. Melees technical barrier is just fine and unlike many fighters it means you don't have to spend 10 hours messing around learning stuff before you can play your first friendly.

 

[Vkrm]

And obviously the player who can do the chaingrab or fluent wavedashes has a clear advantage over the opponent, but it doesn't really mean you are a better player,

Why doesnt it? You do actually have to out think your opponent for a good cg to be of any use.

 

[-LzR-]

Why doesnt it? You do
Actually have to out think your opponent for a good cg to be of any use.

Same thing applies to wavedashes and other techniques, but guess what, not Lcanceling.

 

[Vkrm]

Same thing applies to wavedashes and other techniques, but guess what, not Lcanceling.

It does actually. How useful would my cancelled aerials be if I couldn't hit any body?

 

[Biz_R_0]

L Cancelling has nothing to do with hitting the opponent. If you miss, it's not because of L Cancelling.

 

[Vkrm]

L Cancelling has nothing to do with hitting the opponent.

Didn't say it did. Was responding to lzr's CGing example. I wasn't really clear, but I meant to imply l canceling doesnt do a lot for reckless players. You can't just tech skill a better player to death with it.

 

[-LzR-]

Well you can actually techskill people to death using spacies until you reach something like midlevels. And isn't Melee chaingrabbing mostly just reacting to where they go and then regrabbing them?

 

[Jockmaster]

Melee CGing is mainly guaranteed at certain percents then, if you're on FD, a rock paper scissors guess on DI.

I still am having trouble understanding what an "arbitrary" tech skill barrier is. Technically, isn't any barrier arbitrary? Can't any competitive game be boiled down to maybe one or two actual user inputs and the rest be automated? Isn't a combination of tech skill and mental knack for the game the point of a competitive metagame? I am simply failing to understand why we want to make the game easier...

 

[Biz_R_0]

Exaggerating the other person's point to ridiculous levels, nice job. I could say the same thing about your point and say that every single frame of motion should take 50 completely different inputs individually because that takes more tech skill than just holding the stick in a direction to move.

 

[Big-Cat]

Melee CGing is mainly guaranteed at certain percents then, if you're on FD, a rock paper scissors guess on DI.

I still am having trouble understanding what an "arbitrary" tech skill barrier is. Technically, isn't any barrier arbitrary? Can't any competitive game be boiled down to maybe one or two actual user inputs and the rest be automated? Isn't a combination of tech skill and mental knack for the game the point of a competitive metagame? I am simply failing to understand why we want to make the game easier...

In my opinion, technical and mental skill should go in hand in hand, not two separate entities, and I think we can agree on that.

If anything, we need a streamline on certain things to reduce the difficult for pulling things off consistently while providing new things to tackle at the same time.

 

[Jockmaster]

Well no, I'm arguing that we had reached the correct balance with Melee. Others are saying that one of the major tech skill inputs of Melee is arbitrary. So I presented questions. Jesus

 

[Big-Cat]

Yet that kind of balance is subjective. You place more emphasis on technical skill than I do (or at least in different areas) so it may seem more balanced in this area to you. It's all preferences really.