Ledgecamping/stalling Should Be Banned

[thumbswayup]

Several characters can do this, but it's mainly Metaknight that's the problem. He can camp on the ledge and not ever be punished. If you try to approach him he can up b in either direction to get you up front or fly at you from behind and there's not a thing you can do about it. This allows him to run away and just keep grabbing the ledge to stall at any point in the match. If this tactic isn't banned, or at least severely limited, Brawl tournament matches will degenerate into nothing more than who gets the lead early on and stalls the rest of the match.

Pikachu can do this as well. Once he's on the ledge he can jump and spam electricity before safely grabbing the ledge again. If you approach him he can n air to knock you back and just repeat.

Many counterpick stages just BEG for an Metaknight to camp/stall on them; Luigi's Mansion (how do you think it got banned), Norfair, Electroplankton. Excessive stalling was banned in Melee (Peach's wall bounce, Jigglypuff's rising pound), so why not in Brawl?

I suggest there be some sort of time limit on how long you can be on the egde (like 5-10 seconds). Of course, enforcing this would be the biggest problem, but it'd be a huge step up from the state of things as they are, and from how much worse they'll get.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Just replace LedgeCamping with Brawl and you have a deal.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Interesting idea. Ledgestalling doesn't work well against Pikachu, so I have trouble discussing it in depth.

However, tactics that were banned in melee should be banned in Brawl. That isn't a debate, that's just common sense.

 

[Collective of Bears]

However, tactics that were banned in melee should be banned in Brawl. That isn't a debate, that's just common sense.

This.
10bannedledgecampingmetaknights

 

[Niko_K]

MK ban....

nahhhh

 

[thumbswayup]

However, tactics that were banned in melee should be banned in Brawl. That isn't a debate, that's just common sense.

Then why isn't it banned?

 

[TWILTHERO]

Banning something in smash bros? *Head Explodes*

 

[Johnthegalactic]

We should also ban every other character, except for one, otherwise the game will be off balance!

 

[noodles415]

i agree with thumbs. maybe now mk wont be as gay......oh wait

 

[okiyama]

Banning something in smash bros? *Head Explodes*

You're right we should play on every stage and use items as well, becuase banning stuff is dumb.
I think that you make a valid point thumbs, the only problem is that high calibur players like azen have absolutely no problem with ledge camping. We should only ban things if they truely are unbeatable or completely unbalanced, but as Azen shows us, this is not unbalanced because he can beat it.

 

[Scavenger XIII]

We should also ban every other character, except for one, otherwise the game will be off balance!

Every OTHER character?

Where exactly does he suggest that ANY character be banned?

 

[JCaesar]

You're right we should play on every stage and use items as well, becuase banning stuff is dumb.
I think that you make a valid point thumbs, the only problem is that high calibur players like azen have absolutely no problem with ledge camping. We should only ban things if they truely are unbeatable or completely unbalanced, but as Azen shows us, this is not unbalanced because he can beat it.

Chillin is a very high caliber player, yet Plank's MK beat his Falco with ledge-camping.

 

[TWILTHERO]

Ok, let me rephrase that. banning something that is totally stupid and unlogical? *head explodes*

 

[popsofctown]

Enforcement would be so so difficult for ledgestalling. We can't ref every game. Even if we could, how much is stalling?

Someone can stall for a few seconds and you can yell "TD!" and by the time he gets over there, you're opponent is onstage, fighting. You look like the boy who cried wolf, and you're opponent got 20 or 30 seconds stall time in to boot.

I'm all for banning stuff for the good of the game, but this is something that's hard to ban.

 

[thumbswayup]

Enforcement would be so so difficult for ledgestalling. We can't ref every game. Even if we could, how much is stalling?

Someone can stall for a few seconds and you can yell "TD!" and by the time he gets over there, you're opponent is onstage, fighting. You look like the boy who cried wolf, and you're opponent got 20 or 30 seconds stall time in to boot.

I'm all for banning stuff for the good of the game, but this is something that's hard to ban.

Yes, as I stated, enforcement would be the issue. So how about we just ban it all together? Or maybe allow only a certain number of times you can regrab the ledge in succession. That would be much easier to enforce.

 

[Sliq]

Everyone in this thread that agrees with OP is ********.

Just because Tactic A seems broken, doesn't mean someone won't come up with Tactic B that counters it. If you ban Tactic A, Tactic B would never exist, and the game would be more shallow for it.

Seriously, of all the things to ban, you made a topic about the least broken thing in the game.

 

[thumbswayup]

Everyone in this thread that agrees with OP is ********.

Just because Tactic A seems broken, doesn't mean someone won't come up with Tactic B that counters it. If you ban Tactic A, Tactic B would never exist, and the game would be more shallow for it.

Seriously, of all the things to ban, you made a topic about the least broken thing in the game.

Because all my other threads that discussed the most broken aspects got closed.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

We should also ban using different types of controllers, only the Wiimote without the nunchuck is fair cause everyone has one!
And different TVs should be banned, we should, only use one model, cause you have to move your eyes a couple degrees more on bigger TVs than with small ones!
Also, taunts should be banned, cause what if the taunt you do is longer than the other persons? He might be given an opportunity to attack!
I also think really soft chairs and chouches should be banned, cause if someone has an uncomfortable couch, they might be given the disadvantage!
How about we ban bright lights, cause you might have to skwint, an be given the disadvantage!

 

[-Nana-]

Yes, as I stated, enforcement would be the issue. So how about we just ban it all together? Or maybe allow only a certain number of times you can regrab the ledge in succession. That would be much easier to enforce.

Idk about limiting ledge grabs but it should just simply be banned. Every tourney in melee banned rising pound and any form of stalling and if it was broken the match was porfit. So ban that **** who cares? If you can't win without excecive stalling then there's something wrong. Camping is one thing to an extent but ledgecamping repeatedly? Come on now.

Ban it.

 

[okiyama]

We should also ban using different types of controllers, only the Wiimote without the nunchuck is fair cause everyone has one!
And different TVs should be banned, we should, only use one model, cause you have to move your eyes a couple degrees more on bigger TVs than with small ones!
Also, taunts should be banned, cause what if the taunt you do is longer than the other persons? He might be given an opportunity to attack!
I also think really soft chairs and chouches should be banned, cause if someone has an uncomfortable couch, they might be given the disadvantage!
How about we ban bright lights, cause you might have to skwint, an be given the disadvantage!

By being sarcastic you are only proving that you are an absolute moron. Really, you are NOT making your point at all, all you are proving is that you can say ridiculous things. If you're trying to make it seem like satire you have failed, because the OP had a point and then you come in here with this spam. Also, the fact that you have already been sarcastic and then you come back with a second sarcastic post only makes this more of a spam post.

Sarcasm just makes you look like a jerk.

I agree with sliq, as a stated in my previous post, Azen can beat it somehow, we just have to figure out how he's doing it and apply it.
Oh yeah, and with Wario if you're truely badass like me, you run up to the edge with a camping MK and start charging your FSmash, if you time it right, you'll get super armor and hit him. You take some damage, but he's very likely to die from this because he's already near the edge anyways.

 

[znintendotaku]

kirbys is the worst cuz he can kirbycide....

 

[JCaesar]

We should also ban using different types of controllers, only the Wiimote without the nunchuck is fair cause everyone has one!
And different TVs should be banned, we should, only use one model, cause you have to move your eyes a couple degrees more on bigger TVs than with small ones!
Also, taunts should be banned, cause what if the taunt you do is longer than the other persons? He might be given an opportunity to attack!
I also think really soft chairs and chouches should be banned, cause if someone has an uncomfortable couch, they might be given the disadvantage!
How about we ban bright lights, cause you might have to skwint, an be given the disadvantage!

I see the stereotype of most 08ers' posts being worthless isn't going away anytime soon...

When did GBD become as ******** as the GameFAQs SSBB forum? Melee Discussion was never this bad back in the day.

 

[-Nana-]

We should also ban using different types of controllers, only the Wiimote without the nunchuck is fair cause everyone has one!
And different TVs should be banned, we should, only use one model, cause you have to move your eyes a couple degrees more on bigger TVs than with small ones!
Also, taunts should be banned, cause what if the taunt you do is longer than the other persons? He might be given an opportunity to attack!
I also think really soft chairs and chouches should be banned, cause if someone has an uncomfortable couch, they might be given the disadvantage!
How about we ban bright lights, cause you might have to skwint, an be given the disadvantage!

I didn't bother reading this but after everyone said something about it I did.

What an idiotic worthless post.

Oh and I believe it's squint not skwint... :0)

 

[Johnthegalactic]

By being sarcastic you are only proving that you are an absolute moron. Really, you are NOT making your point at all, all you are proving is that you can say ridiculous things. If you're trying to make it seem like satire you have failed, because the OP had a point and then you come in here with this spam. Also, the fact that you have already been sarcastic and then you come back with a second sarcastic post only makes this more of a spam post.

Sarcasm just makes you look like a jerk.

I agree with sliq, as a stated in my previous post, Azen can beat it somehow, we just have to figure out how he's doing it and apply it.
Oh yeah, and with Wario if you're truely badass like me, you run up to the edge with a camping MK and start charging your FSmash, if you time it right, you'll get super armor and hit him. You take some damage, but he's very likely to die from this because he's already near the edge anyways.

No, I was impersonating the fed up sore losers who say characters, techniques and certain moves should be banned, not sarcasm, it was humor, maybe your just cannot see that.
It is pointless and stupid to say that such things should be banned, and whoever says that they should is a crybaby/loser/whining twelve year old.

Oh and I believe it's squint not skwint... :0)

I meant skint, which means chiefly British

Nah, I just don't have spellcheck on this laptop, do on my computer, but not this machine.

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

kirbys is the worst cuz he can kirbycide....

Uh, what...

 

[Johnthegalactic]

Uh, what...

Kirby cannot Kirbycide anymore, and even in Melee it was escapable, and with the right timing, Kirby would kill himself in the throw while you get out of his throw.

So yeah, I also, will go, Uh, what...

 

[Lukenessmonster]

well in most situations, if your down to your last life as well as ur opponent and both at high damage, then your goign to on the ledge most likely tot tihkn about what to do. id say you cant edgestall for more than 30 seconds not 5-10. metaknight is gay anyways and overpowered why would someone need to its like an auto win if you pick him and its so annoying because half the smash community uses his plump ***

 

[Johnthegalactic]

That means, less characters whose tactics needs to be analyzed.
If your upset with it, figure out what Azen or whoever the genius is, is doing and replicate it.

 

[Affinity]

metaknight is gay anyways and overpowered why would someone need to its like an auto win if you pick him and its so annoying because half the smash community uses his plump ***

 

[MarthFanatique]

i agree with thumbs. maybe now mk wont be as gay!

good luck with that!

 

[thumbswayup]

You can't just "replicate" Azen. That would be like me telling you to "replicate" M2k's Marth in Melee.

 

[Affinity]

i agree with thumbs. maybe now mk wont be as gay......oh wait

LMAO Meta Knight doesn't need ledge stalling to win. Banning it wouldn't affect his game AT ALL.

Great post btw; you're doing a good job of showing how much of a scrub you really are.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

You can't just "replicate" Azen. That would be like me telling you to "replicate" M2k's Marth in Melee.

You can figure out a way to beat this tactic, isn't that what I hear Azen is doing?
Anyway, MK won't be banned, stalling/ledgecamping won't be banned.
If you care so much about stopping this technique from being effective, get down a strategy or something to decrease or nuetralize it's effectiveness.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

You can't just "replicate" Azen. That would be like me telling you to "replicate" M2k's Marth in Melee.

Why not?

With enough time, study, and practice, just about any playstyle can be replicated. Besides, Azen has apparently (as in, I haven't seen any vids yet, just going on heresay) found a counter-MK stall tactic within only a few months of its release, we have years to figure out exactly how he did it so we can do it the same way.

EDIT: By the way, I am way too lazy to just drop Brawl, look at endless M2K vids, relearn melee shorthopping and frame-perfect wavedashing, for me to be willing to attempt to replicate M2K. Otherwise, it sounds like a good suggestion (although always a step behind M2K's metagame).

 

[Turbo Ether]

Ironically, the best way to counter ledge stalling is by turning items on. Same thing with water stalling on Pirate Ship. I'm not a fan of items, but it's the truth.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

sigh...i haven't been brawling at all this summer, i'll get back on the tourney scene this fall, but I still agree with Sliq and John on this. There's a way around almost everything. Not to mention this is brawl. Ledge stalling doesn't work in brawl.

There's so many ways around that it's not even funny. Projectiles are an obvious answer. Any projectile that can curve is easy. Pika's projectile is probably the best, but Pit's arrows, toon link's bombs/boomerang, snakes nades/mortar (you would get hit but so would meta), mario's fireballs, diddy's bananas all would work. If you're having trouble getting it low enough over the edge, on stages with platfors near the edge, run off and use them from behind him, a safe distance from his up B. Those are all characters that see tourney play. You're a diddy player thumbs, try that. Just time it right. Characters like marth with more range/disjointed hitboxes are another. The problem with stalling in melee was that you could still in such a way that never ran out of invincibility frames. You can't do that in brawl, and if a character is not invincible, there's always something you can do. Not to mention, they have to be WINNING in the first place in order to stall, so as long as a you play well and do better than them in the first place, it's never a problem. If they are stalling because they have, say, a stock advantage, they have a good chance of winning anways since they did better than you. Or if it's really close, lets say you're both a 150% on your first stock, and MK kills you , do you really expect him to play very aggressively? Not really, he's one of the lightest characters. If you have problems dealing with stalling, why wouldn't he do it? Honestly, if you can't think of something on your own, then apparently you get all your tactics from other people.

As a general note, camping is complained about i a few genres of gaming, and i always hate when people get mad at campers. Oh no, he's camping. He's gay. Well guess what? He's winning. So why should he stop? Because he wants to be sportsmanlike? This is a tournament, he wants to win. If he's not winning, then why would you complain? He's obviously not doing well with it, so if he doesn't stop, that's his own **** fault. Like I was playing CoD4 the other day, and i had a good sniping spot. I was on a 7 kill streak, and someone told me to stop being a camping noob. So of course I continued onwards and got a 24 kill streak. Oh no, I was camping in the exact same place, and you couldn't figure out how to punish it? Jesus.

Also, to the above poster....just no. Items are a solution to lots of things.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd-0vEfge2M

It seems Azen dashes to center stage and just prepares to avoid the incoming gliding MK, this might be difficult for slow characters like Ganon, Dedede might be able to inhale MK.

See, you guys got worked up for nothing, it isn't unstoppable!

Why not?

EDIT: By the way, I am way too lazy to just drop Brawl, look at endless M2K vids, relearn melee shorthopping and frame-perfect wavedashing, for me to be willing to attempt to replicate M2K. Otherwise, it sounds like a good suggestion (although always a step behind M2K's metagame).

I like Brawl and Melee, they are each fun, exciting games, they are different enough to co exist, but similiar too.
I enjoy Melee, I play it about twice a week, and it is very fun, I also enjoy Brawl, and play it more often, plus, I can play with my cousin in Ohio, which means I won't sever myself from it(he has a great Luigi, especially for a nine year old).

 

[thumbswayup]

Why not?

With enough time, study, and practice, just about any playstyle can be replicated. Besides, Azen has apparently (as in, I haven't seen any vids yet, just going on heresay) found a counter-MK stall tactic within only a few months of its release, we have years to figure out exactly how he did it so we can do it the same way.

EDIT: By the way, I am way too lazy to just drop Brawl, look at endless M2K vids, relearn melee shorthopping and frame-perfect wavedashing, for me to be willing to attempt to replicate M2K. Otherwise, it sounds like a good suggestion (although always a step behind M2K's metagame).

Because he's Azen. Also, no amount of practice would get you to where M2k is (well maybe 5 years straight). He doesn't just have flawless tech skill (otherwise Silent Wolf would go even with him) he does things in the match no one else thinks to do. Not just that, he consistently does this and pulls off crazy combos every second. No other Marth in the world comes close to what he can do and a lot of them have been playing the game almost as long as he has.

You can't really "replicate" Azen because it's not a matter of just watching and learning from him. He thinks differently than everyone else, he reacts to things and knows what you're going to do before you even know yourself. That's something that can't be taught.

sigh...i haven't been brawling at all this summer, i'll get back on the tourney scene this fall, but I still agree with Sliq and John on this. There's a way around almost everything. Not to mention this is brawl. Ledge stalling doesn't work in brawl.

There's so many ways around that it's not even funny. Projectiles are an obvious answer. Characters like marth with more range/disjointed hitboxes are another. The problem with stalling in melee was that you could still in such a way that never ran out of invincibility frames. You can't do that in brawl, and if a character is not invincible, there's always something you can do.

Chred! You're alive! Now let me point out how wrong you are. There is no way around it, projectiles don't work. The MK can just keep regrabbing the ledge for invincibility frames. As for Marth and characters with broken hitboxes that won't work either. The moment they even come close to the edge the MK can up b into them. Man you've been off the scene way too long. Plank is gaying everyone with MK left and right. He ledgecamped/stalled the entire match against Chiliin's Falco and won. I think that's the only person he's done that too, but he runs the timer on everyone by just running away.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

You can't really "replicate" Azen because it's not a matter of just watching and learning from him. He thinks differently than everyone else, he reacts to things and knows what you're going to do before you even know yourself. That's something that can't be taught.

It is not replicating Azens way of playing, it is just copying what he does when confront with a stalling Meta Knight, it is one situation, where you can take not of an effective counter strategy, and thus, you have decreased the effectiveness of Metaknights stalling.

Again, try and take not of what he does in the one situation you worry about, and apply it to yourself.

Just one tactic you can imitate, not hard.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Chred! You're alive! Now let me point out how wrong you are. There is no way around it, projectiles don't work. The MK can just keep regrabbing the ledge for invincibility frames. As for Marth and characters with broken hitboxes that won't work either. The moment they even come close to the edge the MK can up b into them. Man you've been off the scene way too long. Plank is gaying everyone with MK left and right. He ledgecamped/stalled the entire match against Chiliin's Falco and won. I think that's the only person he's done that too, but he runs the timer on everyone by just running away.

Congrats, you can keep regrabbing the edge. But guess what? It isn't an infinite. You are vulnerable part of the time. Therefore projectiles, mostly pika's bolts, can hit them. Pike can do it very easily. I know because i've tested it. Had one person letting go and regrabbing, and another person spamming the bolt. The ledge camper gets hit alot. Furthermore, like I said, the MK has to be winning in order to stall on the edge, or you could just sit back and wait. Plank has to get damage on chillin the first place, and he's obviously quite capable of doing it. Also, chillin was playing falco, a character with a horrible recovery, and not nearly as much approach as he had in melee. If plank starts the match by running to the edge, just play fox and shoot him with a laser, if ou just keep using it he'll have to go through it to get to the edge. Then you can wait and he'll have to come to you.