Learning Advanced Techniques with Doc

[Sneakz]

About a year after the game came out, I BELEIVED I had mastered doc, Me and My freind would not stop 5 stock matches ( He plays as Fox) and We would swear that we were on stoppable.

To increase my cockyness even more, I had managed to beat all the gamers in my highschool

WITH EXTTREEEEEEEEM EAZE. It was cool. But I wanted more.

So I went on to gamefaqs and read about "wavedashing" and learned about its uses, i never did see a video of it in practice and the description of how to do it was horrible, but i dismissed it as being a useless glitch. Untill i came upon the Smashboards.

This is when i got scared, there were so much tricks SHFFLing, Wavedashing SHFFLed Pills EdgeHogging, Dash Dancing, Wavelanding and the list goes on.

I started seeing videos of how to do these moves, and thats when i realized i wasnt the best, but I still didnt beleive that these tricks would up my game at all.

I tried these moves and mastered Wavelanding ,DashDancing and to a degree SHFFLing ( Cant get a 100% of the time and cant tell if i L-Cancel or not, cause i either get a sheild or i dont soooo yah)

No on to my questions

- I need to learn more how people PLAY with Doc, specifically him Videos would be alot of Help, Im tireed of reading because that aint helping, unless its really good please dont recomend readings

- Some of the videos i seen on you tube with people playing as doc were insanely crap, I could swear I could beat them with my current knowledge, except for one vid with Doc vs Ganon

- Also Wavedashing, is the hardest **** I have ever tryed to learn, I can do it, but rarely and Inconsistantley, like I cant do it 2 times in a row and Some times you can actually see part of the jump. Its pretty bad and I need to learn how, how long did it take most of you to master and do you guys still screw up? Can you recomend any Vids?

- Wavelanding is awesome, but are they anyother edge recoveries? Since my freind plays as fox, if i dont do a perfect waveland he wil either F Attack me or Do his D Attack which will knock me to the other side of the stage ( BTW we ALWAYS Play on Final Destination and Weve unlocked everything, Including ALLL THE TROPHIES, with out any of these techniques)


Help would be greatly Appreciated

P.S Dont recomend other char's cause im totaly against the tier list and Doc is the ****

 

[Lixivium]

- I need to learn more how people PLAY with Doc, specifically him Videos would be alot of Help, Im tireed of reading because that aint helping, unless its really good please dont recomend readings

Look for videos of Caveman, S-Royal, Cyphus, Kirby Squad (Dave), Captain Jack, Kentaross. They're all on Youtube.

- Some of the videos i seen on you tube with people playing as doc were insanely crap, I could swear I could beat them with my current knowledge, except for one vid with Doc vs Ganon

Were you watching videos of any of the above players? Because I guarantee you won't beat them. Even the best players can look bad at times (see S-Royal vs. Forward on Yoshi's Story), but if you were to actually play them it's a whole different ballgame.

- Also Wavedashing, is the hardest **** I have ever tryed to learn, I can do it, but rarely and Inconsistantley, like I cant do it 2 times in a row and Some times you can actually see part of the jump. Its pretty bad and I need to learn how, how long did it take most of you to master and do you guys still screw up? Can you recomend any Vids?

If you already know how to do a WD then there's nothing more any of us can tell you. You just have to be quick with the airdodging after pushing X or Y, and pay attention to the direction of the analog stick. Practice makes perfect.

- Wavelanding is awesome, but are they anyother edge recoveries? Since my freind plays as fox, if i dont do a perfect waveland he wil either F Attack me or Do his D Attack which will knock me to the other side of the stage ( BTW we ALWAYS Play on Final Destination and Weve unlocked everything, Including ALLL THE TROPHIES, with out any of these techniques)

I assume by "waveland" you mean a wavedash from a ledge hop. There are a few other options:

Rolling (You probably do this too often and get hit out of it)
Ledge attack (only do it under 100% damage)
Ledgehop
Ledge jump
Ledgehopped Up-Air
Ledgehopped sex kick


To tell you the truth, "advanced" stuff like wavedashing and SHFFLing are really basic techniques if you want to play Smash competitively. They're more useful for some characters than others, but what they do is allow you to play faster, whether it's moving around (wavedashing) or attacking (SHFFLing). Playing faster means you have a lot more options: you are less vulnerable when you attack, and you can exploit more openings in your opponent's game.

The most important thing is not the techniques themselves but what you do with them.

 

[Khaine]

video's to look at: both of bob money's combo videos (overdose, and his part in evolution). cyphus has a couple decent vids in this here doc forum somewhere, and a combo video. um, and in the video section section here, look for the JST5 vids, and watch kirby squad (dave)'s vids. also, try looking on google video/ youtube for videos off people like captain jack, s-royal and caveman.


-x-

 

[Sneakz]

Yes Thanks for The Vids, I have seen them yet but will very soon.

Also Ledge Attacking

How can i do that with a F-Air? Anytime I try to SHFFL a F-Air it never completes, so i always full jump to do it. Is it possible SHFFL a F-Air?

 

[Sneakz]

Also lixivium, thanks for the great feedback, but I have a question

when you say ill play <b>faster</b> with these techniques does that really matter? Im slow as it is and there is no way I will be able to compete with speed like C.Falcon and Fox, so does wavedashing actually matter? and also is Doc's Wavedash useful ( not as in it goes a long distance but if its useful ingame,)

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Yes Thanks for The Vids, I have seen them yet but will very soon.

Also Ledge Attacking

How can i do that with a F-Air? Anytime I try to SHFFL a F-Air it never completes, so i always full jump to do it. Is it possible SHFFL a F-Air?

It sounds like you're asking how to ledge attack with a fair. If so, you wouldn't even be able to shorthop, because shorthopping is only on the ground. Midair jumps always go the same height (except for some characters that can attack at the right time to give themselves an extra boost, but Doc can't, so forget I said that). So, if you start the fair as soon as possible, you should have plenty of time even if you fastfall. For just straight SHFFLing it, though, the timing may require you to delay the fastfall a bit if you want the hit to come out.

when you say ill play <b>faster</b> with these techniques does that really matter? Im slow as it is and there is no way I will be able to compete with speed like C.Falcon and Fox, so does wavedashing actually matter? and also is Doc's Wavedash useful ( not as in it goes a long distance but if its useful ingame,)

You may not be able to compete with the running speed of Fox/Falcon, but that's not the issue. If you land a short hopped back air, the Fox flies back a little and doesn't tech, then you waveland backwards, you'll be able to immediately dsmash for a second hit, in a way that would have been impossible had you not wavelanded. Another example: you fair a shielding Falcon and don't l-cancel. Congrats, you just got grabbed. If you l-cancel it, though, you will be able to jab before he grabs, escaping the grab and starting a combo of your own. Using these moves gives you a fundamentally faster character, in attacking speed, movement capability, and combo potential. How you use that is up to you.

 

[Lixivium]

Also lixivium, thanks for the great feedback, but I have a question

when you say ill play <b>faster</b> with these techniques does that really matter? Im slow as it is and there is no way I will be able to compete with speed like C.Falcon and Fox, so does wavedashing actually matter? and also is Doc's Wavedash useful ( not as in it goes a long distance but if its useful ingame,)

Like ihavespaceballs says, the goal is not to move as fast as Fox/Falcon but to cover your weaknesses and take advantages of openings you couldn't before.


Useful applications of wavedashing:

1. Quickly grabbing the edge to edgehog

WD'ing backwards off the stage and grabbing the edge is faster than shorthopping backwards.

2. Attacking out of your shield

Let's say you shield an F-smash from Marth. If you roll or jump out of your shield, Marth has enough time to recover and cover himself. But if you WD out of your shield, you can punish him with a grab or a D-smash while he's lagging.


Wavedashing is NOT meant to be used to get around most of the time (except for Luigi and Ice Climbers). The fundamental advantage of the wavedash is to allow you to move while doing attacks you could only do while standing still. I'll let you figure out how useful this could be.

 

[Stryk9]

yeah i find docs wavedash easy so you shouldn have too much trouble with a bit of practice


learn the pill spam moves too like reverse pill full jump waveland pill and double pill double jump etc

 

[Sneakz]

Thanks for the help, after seeing that caveman vid, I went back and practiced wavedashing more, I can do it to a more succesful rate now, but the length varies greatly and also I find wave dashing backwards alot easier then forward and while running i can wavedash forward alot easier then back wards ( I end up doing a backflip lost of the time) Also Ive practiced the Ledge Attacking thing, not quite as useful but it can work verywell unfortunately though U-Air is the only one fast enough to actually execute befor the opponent.

Also I find Sheild grabbing very useful ( saw it in a vid cant rember which one)

But the pill, man is it hard for me to have time to actually use it, by the time i pull out a pill fox is already in my face, so i just usually dash attack more.

Ive learend alot of grab combos thanks to Cavemans vids, love D-throwing at High precentages into a Up Ground Attack ( whats the abbriviation for that?) and finishing up with a F-Air

And Thanks alot for the vids and the tips

But I really need help with this wavedashing and SHFFLing

Wavedashing I already explained but SHFFLing
besides the fact that i cant do it a 100% of the time ( that should come with practice right?) I really cant tell if I L-Cancelled or not, sometimes i end up sheilding sometimes i dont but i just dont know if it changed anything, so i usually just ignore it and just SHFF.

Thanks a 3rd Time for you help

 

[Sneakz]

learn the pill spam moves too like reverse pill full jump waveland pill and double pill double jump etc

Yah I understand some of what your talking about ( like pilling befor i go under the stage then UP - B to grab edge) but most of it, I dont have a clue can you go over that please?

 

[St. Viers]

...stuff...

Wavedashing is NOT meant to be used to get around most of the time (except for Luigi and Ice Climbers). The fundamental advantage of the wavedash is to allow you to move while doing attacks you could only do while standing still. I'll let you figure out how useful this could be.

I use WDing to move around...I'm good enough at it that is natural, and it seems to help confuse the opponent, as I can then mindgame by just NOT WDing. It is also faster, and as you can space and roll, could be safer...why not use it to move

Of course, I'm not that good, and I haven't played tons of people, so I can't say.

Other uses for WDing....

3) dodge attacks: much like shield WDing, you can dash towards someone, let them attack, WD back, then forth again/doing a quick attack like tilt or jab or throw

4)mindgames: Wding is versatile, you can change the distance you go with practice. MIx it with dashdancing, just wavedash backwards, triangle jumping, and you have a lot of options....

oh, re: the quickness thing:
It isn't to be quicker than other characters, it is to be as quick as Doc is able. Being quick as possible gives you a better chance of surviving, even if not as quick as your opponent.


Yes, Doc's WD is useful It is fast, quick, and opens possibilities. Heh...you probably already know this, but shorthopping with x/y helps with wavedashing. Letting the jump actually begin is bad, if you want to WD...try to airdodge quicker

Hope this helps, and hope someone explains the downside of using WD to actually move?

 

[Lixivium]

But the pill, man is it hard for me to have time to actually use it, by the time i pull out a pill fox is already in my face, so i just usually dash attack more.

You gotta learn when and where to pill, especially against characters like Fox who can get past the pill quickly and PUNISH you for it. Don't overuse the dash attack, either. It can be shieldgrabbed or crouch-cancelled, and characters with fast aerials can even hit you as they fall.

Wavedashing I already explained but SHFFLing
besides the fact that i cant do it a 100% of the time ( that should come with practice right?) I really cant tell if I L-Cancelled or not, sometimes i end up sheilding sometimes i dont but i just dont know if it changed anything, so i usually just ignore it and just SHFF.

Here's the thing about Doc: his B-Air is so fast, if you push the c-stick as soon as he leaves the ground, he finishes the attack before he lands, even from a fast-fall. Therefore L-cancelling makes no difference if you immediately B-Air right when he jumps.

With the Up-Air, he finishes the attack within a shorthop if you don't fastfall it. If you do fastfall the Up-Air, or you don't Up-Air right when he jumps, then L-cancelling makes a small but noticeable difference when you land.

(Somebody correct me if any of this is wrong)

Of course, you could just L-cancel every single attack from any jump/fall. It doesn't really hurt, except if you're shielding when you land, then you held onto L or R too long.

Hope this helps, and hope someone explains the downside of using WD to actually move?

When you're running, you can shield or jump at any time, but when you wavedash, there are 10 frames of lag where you can't do anything. It's a small window, but WD too much and you're going to be hit out of it by good players. There are times when Doc's regular dash is the better option.

 

[St. Viers]

Um, Sneakz, How good are you at teching? This is when you hit L/R before hitting the ground, and instead of slamming into the ground/ you instantly get back up or roll, depending if you are hitting a direction.

If you are decent at that, it is very similar to L canceling in regards to timing

Lixivium: yeah, I guess I just don't play against people who can punish the starting lag of the WD... thanks

EDIT: Its an up-smash or up-tilt, depending on whether you smash, or lightly hold up, Sneakz

 

[Artery_Clogger]

hmm...always play on FD. You should play on other neutral stages. That should improve your game a little. If you want to get good go to tournies. And about the unlocking everything I hate to say that unlocking everything probably did not improve your game, at least it did not make you a better player in terms of tournament level players.

 

[Sneakz]

Usually when i do SHFF, i hit the opponent so i dont really think the millisec add of l-canceling makes a difference, and I NEVER D-AIR, I find it pretty pathetic and it always leaves me open unless i actually manage to L-cancel it ( yah i try sometimes, but just dontknow) and follow up with an Up B move ( Yah i know they say its bad, but i totally disagree, its faster than all of foxs smash moves so when hes about to Attack Up B, and bam even though he started first I still manage to hit first)


Also about teching, yah I do it with a high succesrate when i try to, but usually i dont cause it usually cause me to get hit since i get up faster ( fox usually dash attacks me on the ground so if i tech im hit if i dont he gets hit with that getting up move, but he changes stratigies sometimes so i have to adjust)

Also about Dash attacks? WHY NOT? my freind ALWAYS crouch cancels and TRIES to sheild grab, the latter never works since my dash attack Hit Box ( I believe) Is my whole body so Even if he blocks im still sliding through him. I say its pretty reliable but i see your point i usually get punished with a d-tilt after crouch cancelling.

And tournaments, are there any in Canada? I live in

Ontario>Toronto>Etobicoke>Rexdale>In front of Melody Villiage JouniorSchool

( None you guys are stalkers right!?!?!?!?!?)

Are there any tournis there? And do people how dont know WD and stuff on the level enter them?

 

[Hoods]

I would agree that S-Royal does look bad on videos. He Loses in most of them.

 

[Petewilcutyou]

To increase my cockyness even more, I had managed to beat all the gamers in my highschool

WITH EXTTREEEEEEEEM EAZE. It was cool. But I wanted more.

So I went on to gamefaqs and read about "wavedashing" and learned about its uses, i never did see a video of it in practice and the description of how to do it was horrible, but i dismissed it as being a useless glitch. Untill i came upon the Smashboards.

This is when i got scared, there were so much tricks SHFFLing, Wavedashing SHFFLed Pills EdgeHogging, Dash Dancing, Wavelanding and the list goes on.

Man...... you and me are in the same boat.. everyone in my highschool sucks bad too.. DAM YOU SMASH BOARDS! DAM YOU! lol, smashboards is great.. but dont worry.. after about half a year, all this techincal tricks in this game just come to you naturally.. but i still have some probs on getting shfling perfect.. yeah. its all good. i play as dr mario myself.

 

[Petewilcutyou]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=1369450

ok.. this is a "A Doctor Mario Advanced Tactics how to play video"

props to the guy that made this. but this should be what your looking for.

 

[Sneakz]

Dam, A Actually Doc Training Vid? ( Havent seen it yet but will after this post)

Great that they are others in the same position as me.

Thanks again for the vid.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Usually when i do SHFF, i hit the opponent so i dont really think the millisec add of l-canceling makes a difference

Believe me, L-cancelling makes a different. When you L-cancel an aerial A (as B moves cannot be L-cancelled) it cuts the lag of the attack by half, cutting the options of your opponent down phenomonly and increasing your options as follow ups. For example, if you miss a SHFFLed Nair and you dont L-Cancel, chances are you are going to get grabbed. However, if you do L-Cancel the lag will be so small it'll hardly be noticeable, and you can follow up with a jab, perventing a shield grab and giving you the offense. If you really want to be good, L-Cancel.

and I NEVER D-AIR, I find it pretty pathetic and it always leaves me open unless i actually manage to L-cancel it ( yah i try sometimes, but just dontknow) and follow up with an Up B move ( Yah i know they say its bad, but i totally disagree, its faster than all of foxs smash moves so when hes about to Attack Up B, and bam even though he started first I still manage to hit first)

Well, if you fail to L-Cancel a Dair, it can be pretty punishable. However, you shouldn't not ever use it. It is a decent move. It is pretty good for a ledge hop attack. Also, here is a good example for a Dair use. SHFFL a Dair at your opponent. They will put their shield up and start to eat the drill but because of your momentum you fall behind your opponent and L-Cancel. They go to shield grab and they are wide open for just about anything. Hit them with a forward smash, down smash, tilt, etc. As for the Up B, you can disagree, but you'd be wrong. Unless you can Up B cancel out of a shield, it really has no use other than recovering. I highly recommend a jab. For example, Fox goes to Smash you, you Up B. If you miss, he's going to hit you, if you hit and he is at a low percent, he's going to punish you. Now, if you jab, not only will it stop his attack before he can do it, but you can follow it up with a smash or grab. These are called jab combos and are very good to Doc's game.

Also about teching, yah I do it with a high succesrate when i try to, but usually i dont cause it usually cause me to get hit since i get up faster ( fox usually dash attacks me on the ground so if i tech im hit if i dont he gets hit with that getting up move, but he changes stratigies sometimes so i have to adjust)

Well, when teching on the ground you can roll left or right, depending on which way you hold the control stick and teching is almost always a better solution than not, as during the teching animation, you are invisible. When you don't tech, you are wide open.

Also about Dash attacks? WHY NOT? my freind ALWAYS crouch cancels and TRIES to sheild grab, the latter never works since my dash attack Hit Box ( I believe) Is my whole body so Even if he blocks im still sliding through him. I say its pretty reliable but i see your point i usually get punished with a d-tilt after crouch cancelling.

Play any decent player and you'll see why not. It is very punishable if you spam it. Sure, it is a pretty good dash attack, but if not used sparingly you will be hurt bad.

And tournaments, are there any in Canada? I live in

Ontario>Toronto>Etobicoke>Rexdale>In front of Melody Villiage JouniorSchool

( None you guys are stalkers right!?!?!?!?!?)

Are there any tournis there? And do people how dont know WD and stuff on the level enter them?

There are bound to be tournaments somewhere in Canada. Just browse Smashboards a little bit, like the regional forum, and I'm sure you'll find something. Also, I entered my first tournament without knowing any advanced techniques... at all. Actually, I entered my first two or three tournaments like that. I, of course, got my *** handed to me in more ways than you can imagine. Those tournaments are what gave me the drive to get better. I suggest going to one, make some friends, you'll learn a lot.

Also, I suggest you read the Doc guide on this board. It is one of the first stickied topics. I also recommend you watch this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3611692370748778742&q=smashmac&hl=en

 

[killa k]

to improve your wavedashing. pick a level that is flat, find the timing and then try going across the level without pausing in your wavedashing. if you pause just start over until you get it. thats how i got the docs wavedashing down.

 

[Sneakz]

Thanks for the responses Kashakunaki and ill keep that tip in mind killa.

Ill try to use dash attacking more sparringly, but even though you say not to Ill still use the Up-B but not as often, its good to have a surpirising move once in a while right?

Also Thanks for sending that vid ( although an above poster already posted ) That was EXCATLY what i was looking for, and it seems Doc's Best use of wavedash is after landing from a jump, which i can do pretty well So i might actually use it more offten, I espicially love the names for those Pill combos and actually showing how to recover is great. But one thing I dont understand ( or just cant do ) is Up-B cancelling, anyone else find that a tad bit difficult?

Well Ill be practicing this alot more befor I play my freind again, and I might check out any local touries.

Thx for all the great tips. Dont be afraid to leave more for other users and myself, might not be posting as much though

Again thanks for the help

BTW I bookmarked that Vid, Props to the Maker.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Where do you live, Sneakz?

Yeah, I made that post thinking there was only one page on this thread, I didn't see this page XD. My bad. Yeah, use your dash attack less often. It is good if there shield is low because it can hit under there shield and it is a nice move to play catch up with in a combo. As for the Up B, while that's true, I wouldn't recommend doing it more than once a match. I use Up B in battle once out of every like... 25 games I play, and sometimes just because I love Up Bing out of a shield. Makes me feel good for some reason.

Pills are a large part of Docs game, so learn to be an annoying ******* with them. Also, I think a pill move that isn't mentioned in that video is just a backwards short hop pill. In other words, short hop, pill, and DI away from your opponent. That way you don't put yourself in the air and don't constantly give your opponent space to run under you. SOmething to change up your game.

Also, it might be just me, but I think Doc's wavedashing is best used when you wavedash into a down smash. Jabs, forward titls, and forward smashes aren't all too bad either.

Also also, Smashmac made that video. He is the master of all things Doc, as well as Cyphus. If you see them make a post on here, it is a worthwhile read. Also, I'd recommend (though it is reading) checking out that "Man in the Garb" stickied guide. Though I'm decently pro, I still go back and read my FAQs every month or two. Just a refersher, and it helps.

Good luck, Sneakz.

 

[Sneakz]

Thanks again Kashakunaki

I posted somwhere above where I live ( to lasy to type it again )

Also Im still having problems wavedashing on the fly so asking to attack out of it is ALOT to ask, Still getting use to the C-stick though ( always thought it was for begginers really but I can see its use) and that FAQ you recomended yah I did read it, learned all the tricks I knew from that ( Sheild grabbing, DI etc)

So Smashmac is the Doc Master? Thats Pretty cool hope he checks out this thread

COMPLETLY off topic but just watched my freind beat ganondorf in Zelda TP for Wii GREATEST BATTLE EVA wanted to play so bad, the cut scenes and boss stages were awesome, gotta find my self a Wii

 

[Petewilcutyou]

Just buy it for gamecube if u cant wait for more wiis to come out. thats what my friend did.. haha.

 

[Sneakz]

Also How much posts do i need to change my title from Smash noob to something else? Really hate knowing rite under my name is the word n00b ><

 

[Sneakz]

Yah was thinking of buying gamecube version but Wii version looks so much cooler, espicially when you play with wepons like the

SPOILER

Ball and Chain
freakin awesome not to mention the Bow and arrows on the horse WHATS CRAZIER THEN THAT
since I playes the wii build I can see myself playing the gamecube version anytime soon.

 

[Petewilcutyou]

im just saying.. if u really wanna play Tp, get the gc version. but yeah, the wii would be better.

 

[Kashakunaki]

God I freaking hate your signature, Peter.

Anyways, check out the Regional Forums and look for a thread about your state or nearby. As for the Smash n00b thing, you get upgraded with posts... otherwise I don't think you can change it without special privledges.

Today's Fun Fact: If you type ["spoiler"] text inbetween and then [/spoiler] it will create a spoiler tag, like this:

Spoiler

Tee hee, I'm using a spoiler tag

. Minus the quotes, of course.

Yeah, I own a Wii. Such a cool console. I own Twilight Princess (beat it), Excite Truck (beat it), Red Steel (beat it), Rayman Raving Rabbids (beat it), Trauma Center (beat it), and Elebits (should've beat it but my save deleted itself). Good stuff, man. I'd get Wario Ware: Smooth moves, but I'm trying to save up money.

P.S. Twilight Princess is the sexiest and coolest game ever. I had to change my pants several times.

 

[Petewilcutyou]

God I freaking hate your signature, Peter.

its pete. but thats a REAL smash attack!

 

[SmashMac]

It's vital to know how to L-cancel and wavedash with Doctor Mario. As far as Doctor Mario goes, the most important Advanced Techniques/Tactics are:

Basics - All forms Wavedashing (including wave-landing)
Basics - L-cancelling
1.) Jump - Cancelling grabs
2.) SHBAWD
3.) Chain-grabbing
4.) Perfect Tornado Press
5.) Megavitamin Tricks

1: Jump - cancelled grabs lead to Chain grabs, and chain-grabs lead to combos that lead to the opponent's misery. Whenever you get a grab, it should pretty much be 'atleast' a guaranteed 45% dmg or so depending on the opponents damage%.

2: SHBAWD (Short-hop back-aerial wave-dash), is also very important. Not only because of it's usefulness against floaters in particular, but because of the smooth movement it has that leads to additional attacks.

3: Chain grabbing shouldn't be relied on, but it should be practiced to a point of mastery. You should be able to grab a Captain Falcon player at any percent and either get a considerable amount of damage on them, or destroy them, depending on the percent. Chain-grabbing works on atleast 75% of all the characters in the game, and considerably well. Learn this .... very important.

4: Perfect Tornado Press (PTP) is vital for recovery. Usually you'll gain some vertical/horizontal distance when recovering and it makes it a lot easier to recover.

5: ALL Megavitamin tricks are important in Doc's game. You should definantly learn the Decoy Vitamin and Placebo for approach and mindgames. Doc's pills are an essential part of his game so learn how to use them wisely. Using them in recovery can help a lot too.

A few other things that are really good "leads to kills" are Shffling U-airs (juggling), and use of his F-smash/D-smash (mindgamed f-smash for the win).

Powersheilding is also very helpful, especially vs. potential campers (Falco?). Even though you could just cape the projectiles back, Powershielding produces a good amount of time in for you to get an attack in while they're paralyzed because of the stun. Also, you can bemobile while powersheilding. In otherwords, you can run and powershield a lot faster than if you were to run and cape.

The Up+B cancel is the best tactic for countering as well. I'd recommend learning this, but only after you've learned everything else.

 

[Sneakz]

Yah thanks for the spoiler trick and Ill check out tourni boards for more info. Also About the Wii, yah I porbably am gonna wait and get it since I also want to play RedSteel played it at Freinds, that game was awesome dont know how it got such a low score on IGN ( Personaly never had a problem with control after first 30mins)

Yah That Sig as freaky, didnt want to stare but I was compelled to, dont know why


And thanks for the Post SmashMac Appreciate it, dunno if you read the posts but I saw your vid so I actually understand how all the tricks your talking about look.

But a quick question, on Chain grabbing, I usually can do it up to 3 times on a Fox with ease sometimes 4 if i jump cancel. But how do i get the inital grab? I usually sheild grab my freind but its become to predictible, and he just stops attacking at the moment he sees my sheild go up, any tips you ( or anyone else) can give for when to sheild and how to be less predictible?

also that dashdancing F-air trick intrigues me, but I never seen it in practice befor so can you explain more on that trick? F-air is my fav of all docs moves, its just so powerful and you get such a great satisfaction when making a connection with that move. So can you explain more? do i just dash dance untill someone charges at me and Shffl it? or is there something else to it?

Thanks

 

[Kashakunaki]

THE MASTER HAS SPOKEN!

That post by Smashmac is really all the most important stuff pertaining to Doc. As a matter of fact, I really should learn to master some of that stuff that I haven't taken the time to (like SHWAB and chain grabbing and PTP). Meh, I'm such a noob Dr. Mario.

Sneakz, I have a camcorder. So if you want me to show something to you I can compile a video especially for you and post it on the internet.

As for getting the first grab. I have troubles with that too, that's why I don't grab as much as I should. Wavegrabs are good (wavedashing and grabbing, duh). Just make sure you JC grabs no matter what. I'll let someone who is more adept at grabbing explain starter grabs to you.

 

[boricuaboy]

wat is SHAWB

 

[St. Viers]

Short-Hop, Back Air, Wave Dash (Kasha just spelled it wrong... )

The funnest thing known to Doc...looks sexy, fast, and really awesome.

Pretty much the name says it all: rising Short Hopped back air. Before you land, the B-air is already over, so you can Wave Dash afterwards.

 

[Sneakz]

Thanks Alot a Vid would really help me to learn ......

Pretty much the name says it all: rising Short Hopped back air. Before you land, the B-air is already over, so you can Wave Dash afterwards.

That, HOW IN THE HELL DO I A WAVEDASH AFTER A SH??!??!?!? IT JUST DOESNT WORK FOR ME, same thing for the SH Pill backwards wavedash and the move in the Vid "Take 2 and call me in the morning" By the time I finish that attack IM ALREADY on the ground, i know im suppose relase as soon as I jump ( Hence RISING) but its still pretty hard and down right i possible to do it for SHBAWD


need a clue on this and also what angle should my controlstick be when you wave dash right befor you land from a jump?

 

[St. Viers]

Sneakz...it isn't sooo hard. hit x lightly, then immediately press b-air. As you rise with the hop, you do your attack. as you decend from the hop, you are free to do whatever you want: All it takes is practice. It took me maybe 5-7 minutes to get down, and now it is all just muscle memory, like WDing.

re: pills, I've never done it (not sure if it can be done), but it might be possible, as I have SHed a pill and been able to D-Smash right as I landed--but maybe that was just luck in that the opponent didn't punish lag. Try doing a full jump first, like "Placebo" from the SmashMac vid

 

[Sneakz]

Yah Im trying to get SH and WD down, still strugle to do both but I dont it alot better than when I started this thread. Maybe one day ... maybe

Also the Pills are very nice stallers but It isnt as easy as I thought it would be to combo with, maybe I do them to close to the opponent causing me to get hit and not the oponent maybe I do it to far not giving me enough time to take advantage of there paralyzed staged, I just dunno, any tips or things you do after a pill?

 

[Kashakunaki]

Well, pills shouldn't be used to combo, but rather, to help start combos. The major uses of pills involve stalling, racking up damage, starting combos, and pissing the hell out of your opponent.

If you are havin' a rough time, go to the defense and spam pills. This will force them to come to you. It's also nice to get up damage. Get some pills in at a decent close range to open up the potential to hit your opponent and maybe lead into a combo. Any occasional, quick pill off the edge to help edge guard isn't too bad either.

 

[Sneakz]

Thanks for tips Im gonna try to implement them in game insted of just practicing.

Also, ever since Ive been doing this new techniques ive been getting REALLY ****y, is that normal? Will i get better with time?