Le Lazy Lurking Link's Listen/Laugh Lounge ♪~ (^ 。^=)

[Bomber7]

Smashcon this weekend! WHOOOOOO I'mgonnabedeadonmyassbecauseIhavetoworktill1amthedaybeforethenwakeupearlyanddriveanhourandahalftorunanalldayevent.

WHOOOO SLEEP IN ON SUNDAAAAYYY!

 

[Heero Yuy]

Heero, stop ragequitting and just practice

Sorry but you don't understand at all of why I wanted to quit Melee. Yes, Apex disappointed me but I didn't even play there so... And no offense but that whole assuming I'm raging/johning thing is getting old and really annoying. :/ Please stop it.

But yeah, I hear from some players in my scene that other fighting games do have a lot of concepts that go way deeper than they do in Smash, particularly spacing and mind games. That's how one of my friends got really good, plus I always wanted to try Street Fighter.

Good luck Bomber! :D

 

[Zane the pure]

But yeah, I hear from some players in my scene that other fighting games do have a lot of concepts that go way deeper than they do in Smash, particularly spacing and mind games. That's how one of my friends got really good, plus I always wanted to try Street Fighter.

I being a multi-fighter gamer have reason to confirm that nearly every fighting game concept goes deeper in games other than smash. However, the strategy required for Smash is unlike any other game, so for many reasons I hesitate to lump any game in with Smash. It's like apples and oranges, It's a fighting game yes, but so completely different they should never be compared. It just so happens that Smash does incorporate several concepts from other fighters.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Zane I can agree with you execution-wise due to the difference between the GC controller and the arcade stick but I can name a few Smashers off the top of my head whom excel at Smash as well as other fighting games. Although Smash has the platform aspect to it, the fighting game elements should be nailed into your brain how this and that will work. Taking SF or MK, for example...It's such a basic game focused on the neutral spacing game. There's much more focus on reading your opponent than executing comboes. To use Brawl as an example (because combos don't exist), reading and timing really mean everything.

I don't expect to be good at Smash from playing a different game but certainly a few skills will carry over. My neutral game skills are bad and I might develop a better mindset overall on how to tackle any given situation.

 

[Bomber7]

Persona 4 Arena. That is all.

 

[Rizen]

In Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate news, I finally got the Anima Reaper great sword and that was the last event quest weapon I needed. I have all the super monster weapons now
Also I can say without exaggeration that I've slain 54 abyssal lagiacris and only gotten 3 dynamos I have such insanely bad luck with those.

Some of the low tier characters I like didn't do well at Apex oh well.

If you have MP3s that you want to trim this is a great site http://cutmp3.net/ I've been cutting the talking before and after live concert songs out of several songs

I got a lot of good stuff done the last few days. Got a driver's permit because my old had been expired since 2012 and I need a recent ID to sign a lease. I don't have a car, don't drink and got depressed so not having a valid license wasn't a big issue . I helped my mom get her car's oil changed. Helped my Gma shop and get books on tape setup. And I renewed my web domain for 4 more years. Hopefully tomorrow I'll find out I got an apartment. Taking it one day at a time.
I also got some good shots of the front range and 3 moose that I'll upload later after I sort them.

Lame pic for a salt shaker

 

[Naroghin]

Taking it one day at a time is sometimes all you can really do to keep sane. It can seem like no matter how many things you accomplish there is an ever growing pile whose input is simply always larger than your output, but it can't be helped.

Like learning competitive smash. Speaking of which... got time for a few laggy dittos?

 

[Anonano]

Sure. I don't have much time, but we can get in a few

EDIT: Also, sorry at failing so bad at getting your message earlier, ha ha I was watching this pretty intently for about half an hour and then got sucked into Starcraft II xD Incidentally, I'm on the last mission for Heart of the Swarm now. :D

Sorry but you don't understand at all of why I wanted to quit Melee. Yes, Apex disappointed me but I didn't even play there so... And no offense but that whole assuming I'm raging/johning thing is getting old and really annoying. :/ Please stop it.

The rage at so little joking...Seriously, man, stop assuming that I'm out to make you feel bad. They are all only jokes.

 

[Naroghin]

Ok, I'm on now and hosting. :D

Edit: Sorry to end; it's getting late and I have to go to work (bleghck) in the morning. GG's and maybe we can play again sometime.

 

[Anonano]

Unsurprisingly, you were having a really hard time not getting gimped. Learning the timing for when to upB and how to DI in order to get back to the stage comes with lots of practice. And then lots more on top of that lots, ha ha.

Disclaimer: I was not trying to insult your intelligence in that last Ganon v Link match with my uptilts, I literally was having input error after input error there, ha ha xD I was not just hoping you would for some reason waltz right into an uptilt that I happened to be doing facing away from you.

But you played conservatively and were watching what I was doing, and as a result of that you started getting in at least a few reads by the last couple of matches.

ggs :D

 

[Naroghin]

Haha, yeah, I figured you were either having some issues or were just messing around. I was wondering why all of your Gdorf d-airs were regular ones instead of thunderstorms. I was having quite a bit of trouble with inputs, myself. Every Usmash you saw was actually supposed to be a Utilt. That FF nair suicide. I've been practicing quite a bit but I did even worse than when I played Rizen, haha. I can never seem to adjust the timing of my inputs to go with the lag.

I hate to be throwing Johns all over the place but I really have a hard time with the lag. There were times where I specifically saw your move happening and input a spot dodge (with ample time, such as your wizkicks) and nothing came out in time. I can usually SH>Nair-punish all of Ganon's flame moves just by reaction but couldn't even shield them this time. Kind of getting desperate. You even saw how I just stopped moving and hoped for mercy when you were squirtle. I dunno, maybe wifi's not for me; I just can't seem to manage.

Are there two types of lag? Visual and input based? I played a wifi brawl with a few friends before and one of them said they had no lag, while the others experienced mild input lag and I was visually seeing lag. It seems like lag shouldn't be one-sided since it's based on connection but... I dunno. I am using a CCP as well. Maybe that affects it?

Edit: Called in sick to work today; can't shake this throat/head sickness. Up for wifi if anyone is around.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Input lag definitely sucks. In Project M I love using Fox whom requires a lot of technical precision and with a heavy amount of input delay (at least 20+ frames make it really bad) it's really hard to do a lot of punishes. In my experience Brawl Link also sucks with input lag. Most of his punish game is hurt. My poor, poor aerials... Why don't you get as much love as you do offline?

Even if both connections are godly there's always gonna be that delay, even just a little. It slows down the game by about 10 frames but that minimal amount doesn't hurt. Wi-Fi is good for matchup experience, but that's about it honestly.

 

[Anonano]

Yeah, that whole "I'm not going to do anything just kill me now please" against my Pika and Squirtle was what spurred me to throw out that "I really hope that you don't think I'm just toying with you" comment, ha ha.

I wish I could understand your question so that I could answer it, ha ha. xD

 

[Heero Yuy]

>Ano's jolt-campy Pikachu.

I'm sorry but I had to. xP

 

[Naroghin]

Input lag definitely sucks. In Project M I love using Fox whom requires a lot of technical precision and with a heavy amount of input delay (at least 20+ frames make it really bad) it's really hard to do a lot of punishes. In my experience Brawl Link also sucks with input lag. Most of his punish game is hurt. My poor, poor aerials... Why don't you get as much love as you do offline?

Even if both connections are godly there's always gonna be that delay, even just a little. It slows down the game by about 10 frames but that minimal amount doesn't hurt. Wi-Fi is good for matchup experience, but that's about it honestly.

That covers my question pretty well. I won't give up on wifi though because I still want to learn from all the Links here, but it's hard to cope when things I put in aren't happening.

@ Anonano Yeah it was pretty rough. On top of not being able to cope with lag I have very little matchup experience with, well, everyone. I was just trying to get some reads in and minimize the lead as much as I could wherever possible. Dat MK doe.

Edit: Hahaha, buschemi-eyed pikachus are the best.

 

[Rizen]

^Lag really sucks. Good connections can be fun but bad connections are frustrating. Link seriously gets nerfed in lag You have to look for cues about timing in bad lag and start early. Link doesn't really have a good lag game like some characters. Don't risk stuff offstage, SH Fair and Zair are your friends, Dair/Usmash/grab are less punishable and trying to read or time punishes is hard so focus on spacing more.

Sometimes lag will spike and miss button inputs which I call button lag. It depends on how consistent or not the lag is; sometimes lag can be really heavy but consistent.

PS I can play now if anyone wants?

edit a good way to counter spam like pika jolts is to throw a bomb through them and that will give Link space to pul another and SH Brang/arrows. Bombs can eat up to 6% damage before exploding so Link can throw bombs through most characters' range spam like Fox/Falco lasers, uncharged paralizer/arrows/bean shots and anything that deals under 7% damage. This is great for punishing the lag of the opponent shooting too.

 

[Naroghin]

Getting on now! See you in a minute.

Also, as always, thanks to everyone who plays me (and doesn't) for the tips and pointers. I take them to heart while I work on the technical facility of my game (currently working on OoS stuff).

 

[Rizen]

Okay, let me fire up the old wii.

Edit GGs I'm losing my steam lol. I can critique you if you want?

 

[Naroghin]

Yes, please do! Often I already see the things people point out but have a hard time adjusting on the fly. So yeah let me know anything I can improve on, and, if I may be so bold to ask, if you noticed any things I'm doing right or better compared to the first time we played. Much appreciated.

Oh, and yes, I realize the two matches I took were flukes XD

 

[Rizen]

Yes, please do! Often I already see the things people point out but have a hard time adjusting on the fly. So yeah let me know anything I can improve on, and, if I may be so bold to ask, if you noticed any things I'm doing right or better compared to the first time we played. Much appreciated.

Oh, and yes, I realize the two matches I took were flukes XD

Technically if Bowser ends the game with a SD move like Klaw he wins and the sudden death doesn't count.

The 2 big things you need to work on are (1) spacing recoveries so Link snaps to the ledge without over or undershooting and (2) don't make yourself vulnerable.

(1) a big part of recovering is know Link's limits. You seemed to get close to the ledge but be too low, far or overshoot and rise above it when most of those you could have made it. When Link is hit offstage immediately Bair to momentum cancel and guide Link back with DI. This will put Link in a better position to stop interceptions and fake out. If Link's far from the stage he can't do much but if he's near he can throw out Fairs or airdodges, fake recovering high then FF dodge>tether the ledge, stall faking a tether then upB to the ledge and so on. But to do this you have to know the limits of what Link can do.
My advice is go into training and practice using different moves and projectiles offstage and recover. Also try to get a bomb pulled as Link DI's back when he's still rising from the launch and throw the B-rang out as Link moves back toward the stage.

(2) A big part of why I got hits in was I watch for you to make yourself vulnerable. You often limited your Link when you should have limited my actions. Things like Usmash (ends frame 64 and opponents can DI out and literally drop in between swings), Dair (tons of landing lag), and charging smashes at the edge (I just hung on the ledge and timed a get up attack) all are very easy to punish.
Link should always be doing something since he can throw 3 projectiles out but he needs to not make himself vulnerable in the process; this is a big reason why Link is so hard to use because you must make reads and adapt while spacing right and playing fast. I like to judge what to do by hitting with the tip of Link's melee attacks then tip of Zair and farther projectiles and bomb pulls. You just have to know the spacing and apply it.
You saw how I walled with Zair/Fair and attacked a lot but rarely left openings. When Link SH/Jumps he can relatively safely throw out Fair/Bair, Zair and projectiles while moving and landing cancel into jabs or whatever's best. Link has ways of moving and creating openings without committing to much lag or vulnerability.

The second part of this is you want to limit what the opponent can do. You saw me frame trap a lot with different projectiles working together. If Link spaces Zair or Fair right and moves as he hops the opponent can't do much besides shield or retreat which gives Link the upper hand to throw projectiles out. If the opponent is returning down to the stage throw bombs up and try to punish landings. If they recover sideways shoot an arrow and wall the limited area they can go off with Fair/Nair. If Link throws a bomb down it means the opponent has to deal with that and Link has more safety to pull another out or FF an aerial.
Link has a lot of versatility to improvise these and more.

When Link catches the opponent with safe options like Zair etc etc, he has a much better opportunity to be aggressive safely. And if the opponent shields then Link can retry without much vulnerability.

tl;dr safely create opening to exploit without leaving Link open.



Generally be comfortable with how Link's options work and when to use them and try to play faster but with good spacing.

______________________________
You had a better grasp of what to to and when this time. You also have better use of Link's SH game, projectiles and pressuring. Keep fine tuning these while trying to play safer and faster

 

[Anonano]

MK breaks the heart of the most seasoned Link veterans. </3 MK.

>Ano's jolt-campy Pikachu.

I'm sorry but I had to. xP

Just wait until you see my WiFi QAC play. I've been practicing, and my QAC suicides are mad OP these days.

 

[Naroghin]

Technically if Bowser ends the game with a SD move like Klaw he wins and the sudden death doesn't count.
tl;dr safely create opening to exploit without leaving Link open.

Oh right, right. I've only skimmed the Unity Ruleset and must have missed/forgotten that part. I recently shared it with the group I play with so we're just now going to start playing with tournament rules. Before that it was just kind of, well, casual.

But yeah, there were tons of facepalm/WTF moments, which is certainly what I'm working on now. It all comes down to decisions that I simply need to be better at making. It's too easy for me to play it off as "Oh whatever I'm just havin fun" but one can't hide behind that forever if one wishes to improve.

What I've taken to doing is practicing spacing/decision making/edge game in Basic Brawl on wifi, as I have spent quite a bit of time in training mode testing DI and spacing recoveries and whatnot, but with the lag thrown in I just feel completely at a loss. There were times where I was multi-tapping inputs because they weren't coming out in time, which caused further technical errors that you easily punished. Oh, and as with Anonano, all of those usmashes were supposed to be utilts. There is a way I have worked around learning true tilts and the timing of such simply does not work in lag. What I would do is spot dodge and immediately throw the analog stick up and would input the "A" (with the stick still up) right before the spot dodge finished as a way to buffer the input, but in lag my success was only 60-70% versus almost 100% in offline play. Could also be my fingers are freakin out because I know I won't possibly win haha. The other version of this is to up and shield at the same time and input the A just out of shield. Looks like I'll actually have to learn to tilt now(at least for online play) :/ heaven help me.

As always, thanks for the input. It helps to guide what little practice I'm able to get in (I do try to play daily, though). I have some specific questions that I'll move to the Q&A thread so I don't clog the social thread with mynewbaciousness.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I also learned quite a few new options in themselves just playing against you so I'm hitting the drawing board today to see if I can make some of these come out. Notably was your use of the locking capabilities of the bow through gale>quickdraw>scamper over here>mess my **** up. I think you killed me at least three times with that same maneuver, and each time I was *MASHMASHMASHMASH* FUUUUUUUUUU-

 

[Bomber7]

TL;DR I'm illiterate for this page..... waffles.

 

[Naroghin]

lawlz, reading is good for you, silly!

 

[Bomber7]

*Hisses @ Naroghin *

Also, I think I almost considered abandoning claim to being a LA smasher, especially after what I saw today.

TL;DR- Some new guy quoted a really old post from a guy who's been dead for a couple of years and two people in our community just jumped on him and tore him up. The guy was obviously unaware the person he was quoting was dead. Oh yeah, they are also tearing him up because he says he needs some competition because he's the best among his group of people....

TL;DR,TL;DR - I no longer conisder myself a LA smasher. I belong to no one, I represent no one but my character.

 

[Rizen]

@Bomber that sounds bad. TBH I'm not involved and don't know much about it but internal BS is always a royal pain.

I'm pretty loyal to CO smashers. We've struggled a lot to get the scene going the last few years but there hasn't been much in the area of fighting amongst ourselves. Most of the BS is from people who think states with smaller smash scenes automatically make everyone there a scrub.
I try to defend my state and the characters I play from ignorant hating and assumptions. Judge by gameplay or don't judge at all is my motto.

PS I'm almost 100% sure I found a new place and can move into it next month

 

[Bomber7]

Needs a house warming smash fesssst!

 

[Heero Yuy]

Honestly the humility levels of my Smash scene have been dropping rapidly. It's gotta stop soon. However, what I do mainly is to be a positive role model to them so they don't end up as cocky pricks whom treat newbs like trash or trash talk excessively.

Don't trade your decency for skill. It's not worth it.

 

[Zane the pure]

My region is pretty respectful, they just know how to have fun. (Reminds me of the old Link boards really...)
Much trolling between DFW and Houston while San An and Tyler stick out and rep pretty solid. It's also fairly active down here and the few top players who haven't migrated completely to P:M are still capable of top 10 in nationals. Understandably my tournament results are a somewhat poor representation of my skill, due to a very inflated and MK happy region, but no hjohs, it's a solid scene with great players, great laughs, and plenty of events.

 

[link and ike lover]

Any one like my sig? Anyway what up link brothers!

WTF anonano is a moderator three cheers for anonano Hoopla Bah hubag Hoopla!!!!!!!!!!!!! U rule anonano!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bomber7]

Link and Link aren't holding hands enough, imo.

 

[link and ike lover]

Link and Link aren't holding hands enough, imo.

Is this for me?

 

[Anonano]

@ link and ike lover did you make that signature yourself? It's pretty cool

 

[Heero Yuy]

@ link and ike lover did you make that signature yourself? It's pretty cool

My friend made it for him. He's the same person that made my sig.

 

[Bomber7]

Is this for me?

yus. :3 10char.

 

[link and ike lover]

@ link and ike lover did you make that signature yourself? It's pretty cool

 

[Rizen]

Nice sigs

I teamed with a ZSS player on AiB. Link+ZSS had a great way of walling off the other team on FD with paralizer and Link SH spamming from behind her. That was fun

 

[Zane the pure]

I always liked + because Alsm and I camp around each other really hard, and then he'll go in while I keep the opponent of balance.
TL's Back air is pretty good for saving Link and his recovery is good enough for me to arrow him when he needs it, so I play super campy stock tank/Killer mover, and he did damage racking and gimping.

Another friend of mine is a pretty strong so we end up leapfrogging each other with SH aerials and stock tank for him.

P.S. Y'all know one of Link's biggest problems onstage in high level play is his weakness to pressure and forcing him to block (due to his poor OoS game) and lately I've been adopting a semi new approach to pressure control.
On block Link's Up-B is strong but is very committal while U-smash is kinda bad and also highly committal, and grab isn't any better. IMO unless you have a bona-fide garunteed punish lined up, it's best for Link to retreat and reset his spacing. To that end I've taken to using Full-hop N-air to retreat into SH Z-airs when I'm back in mid-range (AKA Link's best spacing)
Lemme know what you guys think, cuz I've been getting pretty good mileage out of it. It's not a cure all, but I feel it's another good and oft overlooked strat that might come in handy.

 

[Bomber7]

zomg smashcon is tomorrow and I work late today @__________________@

 

[HarryTheChin]

gooby pls ;_;