Le Lazy Lurking Link's Listen/Laugh Lounge ♪~ (^ 。^=)

[Rizen]

"Q What is Link’s best throw?
A All of Link’s throws do 7% damage. Throw in the direction that puts the opponents in the worst position. Link will not move himself from his grabbing location for throws which means he can safely throw the direction of stage hazards. Dthrow can push opponents under Brinstar enough that the acid will burn them if it’s almost the level that Link is standing. Because a programing error Dthrow’s first hit will miss Jigglypuff and only deal 4% damage to her. Uthrow can kill around 160%-200%+.
If direction doesn’t matter then use Bthrow because it ends the quickest giving Link a slight frame advantage more than his other throws.
Link only has 2 guaranteed grab related tactics: throwing a bomb up>grab>Uthrow the opponent into the bomb and his ground grab release Dsmash/jab/dash attack on Ness/Lucas. No, Link doesn’t have any true follow-ups or CGs at any % besides those. Some characters cannot jump right away after Fthrow/Bthrow/Dthrow but this does not give Link enough time to follow-up attack."

 

[Anonano]

Hey look the other match I lost in the bbrawl, item-wielding tourney:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jtqoCxuULw&feature=g-u-u

 

[Scabe]

Man that looks fun.

I realised it was Balanced Brawl when I saw link doing up B into Zair >.<

 

[Anonano]

Okay, so the final match between the top 4 players has been posted.

It was #1 Me and #4 Caysyka vs #2 Ben and #4 Ninjalink. Both Ben and I were tied at 17-2, and Caysyka and Ninja were tied at 13-6 (the tiebreakers being our Kill/Death ratio), so whichever team won secured the #1 and #3 spots for themselves going into the playoffs, so it was kind of fun.

And of course, remember it is Balanced Brawl with items.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaHjO9Q-qVQ&feature=plcp

 

[tru0067]

What about dtilt spiking

 

[Rizen]

What about dtilt spiking

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=325062
"Dtilt can spike but the hit bubble arrangement and ledge snaps make it extremely difficult and Link has better options than to risk sour-spotting Dtilt vs a recovering opponent.

The yellow hitbubbles in 2 spike (never mind the rest of the old image). Unfortunately the non-spiking, sour hitbubbles launch up a good distance that has almost no knockback growth with damage and no good follow ups. If anything they help the opponent into a better recovery position. The (blue) sour hitbubbles out prioritize the spiking ones so a spike will only happen if the blue don’t touch at all. Link can spike facing backwards but his hurtbox overlaps the hitbubble.
Dtilt’s slow to start (hits frames 12-14 and ends 31) and does 12 damage. Use it for a less committing low shield poke alternative to Dsmash or try to spike an opponent as they rise through a floor or plank if you feel lucky. I do not recommend this move."


(I <3 not having to retype this kind of thing every time )

 

[Anonano]

Oh, no wonder all of your posts about this stuff have sounded so official.

Dtilt is the lulz, man. The lulz.
I've used it for setting up combos on people. If someone is about to land in front of you and you suspect they're going to try and predict an attack by you by shielding on landing you can dtilt. It has just long enough of a startup time to catch them as they are putting their shield down and starting up their grab, jab, etc.
The knockback goes straight up and is set, although very unfortunately that happens to be out of range for you to do anything. At low percents you might be able to do a quick jump->fair out of it, but I'd need confirmation on that (darn broken Wii).

But honestly, I'd say utilt is the better alternative to dtilt (Uh oh, apples to oranges comparison! ) if you're just trying to keep your opponent in the air utilt is quicker and has combo potential. Dtilt has a slower startup and winddown, although (If I remember right) it does poke shields where utilt does not and has a slightly longer horizontal range.

If you're using dtilt on an opponent on the edge to try to spike them, then you definitely have the option to use utilt instead to try and juggle them, because--let's face it--you were probably half-expecting for your opponent to go flying up anyways or to at worst whiff your dtilt entirely, and utilt has more range for catching opponents who are falling/rising that close to you. Or, ftilt has a longer horizontal range for about the same amount of startup and ending lag, meaning it's more likely to catch your opponent and send them horizontally away from the stage and is a decent kill move anyways.
Heck, dsmash has about the same amount of range, you can time the attack better if you're charging it, and it's actually a kill move.

But if you're one of those people who seeks the Holy Grail of all Link's spikes, reach over and swat your opponent's controller from his hand. I guarantee you the opponent will miss grabbing the edge, fall, and die. Presto! Link's most guaranteed spike.

 

[Bomber7]

Still Link related.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiVB1aoZY7I&list

I'm slowly getting there. xD

 

[tru0067]

So no dtilt spike?

 

[Huggles828]

So no dtilt spike?

Realistically you're pretty much never going to land the spike in a tournament. Heck, you're probably not gonna use the move itself much at all. Basically if you're using the move you're probably forcing it and have a better option anyway.

So no. No dtilt spike

 

[tru0067]

I have no idea why 2 phones appeared

Also what are all the moves that can jab lock?

I know link:jab 1,Mario:jab1 and MK:d tilt

 

[Rizen]

I have no idea why 2 phones appeared

Also what are all the moves that can jab lock?

I know link:jab 1,Mario:jab1 and MK:d tilt

Are you using one on each ear for stereo sound? /jk

Link can preform these locks:

*Link can setup locks (002B)

Spoiler

like jab lock, arrow lock and footstool bomb to Dair. To ‘lock’ (knock the opponent down in a way that forces them to automatically stand without the normal options of rolling and getup attacks- basically it gives you a free hit of your choice when near), make an opponent fall with a 'wobble' animation landing, which can be done with the boomerang’s attack (50% trip rate vs ground and near-ground opponents and good hitstun), a bomb>footstool>FF Nair, by shield pushing an opponent off a platform and other ways too. Then hit them with a weak attack, (Link's uncharged-partially charged arrows or jab1) to start a lock. If the wobble motion is hit by an attack that can cause locks with fast timing the opponent will wobble again. Link’s jab can repeat this if Link steps forward>jabs>step>jab>step>jab etc until the end of the stage where usually a partially charged Fsmash punishes the forced standup; this is a jab lock. Link cannot lock with jab2 so you must have the timing down. Arrows are too slow to lock with more than 1.

If Link is locked by an opponent, which can’t happen if you tech landings, then DI like crazy toward the edge of the stage and Link will take less hits.

Jab canceling isn’t a true lock. It works like a lock to have weak jabs chain into more powerful attacks. Jab once or twice>tap down to cancel the 3rd jab buffer>grab/Dsmash/Spin Attack or maybe Fsmash/Utilt/start another jab cancel depending on how the opponent DIs. Jab>jab>Spin Attack is a good chain if you’re on wifi with weird lag or haven’t got the timing of jab canceling down because Spin Attack is a special move and won’t start the 3rd jab if input early: A>A>up+B as fast as you can enter it will work.
Jabs can be DIed and/or interrupted by fast moves. (Except for with ‘B’ move follow-ups, which Spin Attack is the only good one) You must wait until at least frame 7 to tap down (and release to neutral) to cancel jab 1 into another attack or jab>jab>wait 9 frames>tap down (and release to neutral)>use another attack after jab 2. The timing and attacks can be varied for mind games however there are no guarantees. Jab canceling is still an effective tactic most of the time is you don’t get greedy or predictable.

If you are talking about the kind of lock that can be teched at first but resets the wobble landing with each hit after it takes a weak hit with certain properties but I'm not sure exactly why these moves work. These are just the ones I know that continue to lock but it needs to be started somehow. (Jab=only jab 1)

Link: Jab1, arrow (uncharged or slightly charged), and maybe the sour later Nair hitbubbles. Nair can't be chained but it combos into jab which starts a lock.

PT: Squirt: Ftilt

MK: Dtilt and he can roll to the other side and continue the other direction

Lucas: Ftilt

Falco: Lasers

Mario: Jab

ICs: Icebergs

Sonic: Jab

I know there are more but these are locks I'm sure of. Many weak fast Jabs/Ftilts/Dtilts and some projectiles can lock. And other types of locks exist too, like Zelda's Dtilt from around 50-100% but they're not the same.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

yo guys i've been using fat link a lot lately.

Any tips right off the bat?

I'm just getting the JC slide.

Does he not have a DACIT? or is that relitively the same thing?

What are your best kill moves?

What are some common Zair and bomb setups?

I looked in the AT thread but i thought it would be better to post, since i know that AT threads can be kinda outdated.

*cough* puff

 

[Rizen]

Hi Papa Mink . [FONT=&quot]See this for a full explanation.[/FONT]

First, Link is all about spacing. Try to hit with the tip of his standard attacks.
You can judge the tip hitbubble for all Link’s sword swings visually by hitting with the sky blue energy streak area.
2nd, Link can not be directly aggressive but needs to be attacking passively fast.

Link's main slides are based off DACing. DACUS and bombslides. His sliding trait and good spot dodge also makes shield dashing and spot dodge sliding http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZJ8K-f9BJM&feature=player_detailpage#t=181s decent spacing options. I think he can jump cancel but it does not help sliding.
KO moves:
"*Several good KOing attacks.
Hidden Message Hide
Link’s Fsmash1 & 2, Dsmash, Ftilt, Utilt, Ground Spin Attack, Fair 2nd cut, Uair, and Dair all are reliable to KO with once the opponent has enough damage. Usmash, Nair, and Bair 2nd kick can KO at higher %s but are better for dealing damage and spacing. Link’s Uthrow will KO around 160%-200%+ depending on the opponent. vs Ness and Lucas, Link has a guaranteed ground grab release jab/dash attack/Dsmash; they will only air break if they’re held in the air (over a slope or ledge) or the player mashes jump and Ness/Lucas escapes during a pummel. Link has no normal air grab releases vs any character because his low holding stance.
What this means is Link doesn’t need to worry about staling KO moves much. Link’s projectile spam freshens moves quickly too. He has good power and damage for most attacks but only Dair has great power.


"
Zair/Nair/Fair/Bair landing cancel. After that, Jab and Dsmash are the fastest chain options starting frame 6 and Utilt starts frame 7. Fsmash/Ftilt can be good if Zair hits with the tip and Link isn't close. Grab starts frame 11 and has crazy end lag but can get some ground OoS characters like Bowser.

Bomb setups: footstool bomb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90gqoqtaajo&feature=plcp see description. (in air) Down throw bomb>Dair/FF Nair, bombs+other projectile spam, bombs to launch the opponent up>DAC/Utilt/Uair/more bombs to juggle.

"Q Link has a million Advanced Techniques (ATs), which ones should I learn?
A Anything ledgehop/ledge stall
Zair tether edgehogging
Arrow locks and jab locks + setups
Jab canceling
Anything involving bombs- including footstool bomb combos and Zair or Fsmash with a bomb in hand
Quickdraw arrows
Reverse arrows (in the air tap backward then 'B' right after)
Landing reverse jabs (like when you Bair then tap backwards before you land and jab in that direction)
Wind Gimps
Dash Attack Cancel (DAC), sometimes referred to as Dash Attack Cancel USmash (DACUS)"

 

[Anonano]

Don't try and spam sword attacks to keep opponents away because they are all too laggy. Try to use zair and projectiles as your bread-and-butter attacks with short, quick ones like bair, jab cancels, and nairs to keep that spacing. If you whiff with any other attacks you're probably about to eat some damage.

Also, the playoffs for my BBrawl tourney are tomorrow night, wish me luck :O

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I can't seem to get the timing for the optimal Zair.

I'm used to using Tinks, which is generally only used when coming down so it cancels.
Link's isn't completely similar though right?
Is it good to retreating full hop rise zair?

 

[Huggles828]

Sup Papa Mink.
Not full hop no.

Short hop rising zair is pretty good. You can use it while falling as well, but it's harder to time since Link falls faster than Toon Link. Link's zair hits twice, which is nice, but sometimes it's better to just get the one hit in, so don't rule that out.

Also, you're not good enough at DIing For serious though, Link's recovery sucks but he's really hard to kill if you DI correctly because he's pretty heavy and has a great MC move in bair, plus he's super hard to kill vertically (I think he actually gains more benefit from vertical momentum cancelling with dair than any other character). So learning how to DI well is absolutely vital for Link.

Spacing is also very important, as well as jab mixups and mindgames up close. Link outranges a lot of characters but loses to pretty much everyone up close thanks to a terrible, slow, laggy grab, no fast moves, and no good options OoS (for reals. SH retreating nair OoS to reset spacing is probably one of his best options). Like Ano said, getting good with jabbing, nair and bair is important for spacing.

Then projectiles. Use them to force your opponent into bad positions. Link doesn't have a lot of guaranteed stuff or safe moves so oftentimes he's gotta trick people into a bad position and then take advantage of it. Be patient and don't try to force the kill, and try to slow down the pace of the game to what you feel comfortable with.

Hope that helps.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Pretty much all I do is bair nair and zair.
I'm very good at jab cancelling, do that often.

What about uses of the boomerang?

Are arrows good?

 

[Anonano]

-_-'

OF COURSE USE YOUR PROJECTILES WHAT HAVE WE BEEN SAYING THE ENTIRE TIME

...

Well, it's not that bad. But if you're not using your projectiles, you're doing it wrong (trust me, that's the habit I'm coming out of right now).

It freaking sucks that I don't have my Wii working right now to confirm everything, but for all of his projectiles you'll want to use them while in the air. If I remember right, short hopping your boomerangs (both retreating and advancing) is bad because the throwing animation is too long, so you'll want to full hop throw them (Someone please correct me on this if it is okay to SH boomerangs).
You'll never use the gale effect unless your trying for some fancy ATs, which pretty much rules using out since none of Link's ATs have a lot of use. Try to angle the boomerang when you throw it so that you don't catch it. Again I'm not 100% sure but if Link catches his boomerang in midair, then lands, it restarts the catching animation, adding extra frames.
The bow is doubtless Link's worst special. Best things it can do are quickdraw when you land to quickly stun an opponent and set up jab locks. You can use it to edgeguard opponents who are far away from the edge by charging an arrow, particularly against opponents with bad recoveries, but you're pretty much banking on an airdodge from them here. Besides, the knockback angle isn't particularly crippling to a recovering opponent anyways. Use the bow sparingly.
Bombs are Link's bread-and-butter projectiles. Even ATs like bombsliding and forward smashing with bomb in hand have uses here. You can use them in about any way you can imagine.
Throwing a bomb down and then FFnairing is a good combo. If you think they will have time to shield, throw the bomb down and aim to land behind the opponent.
Use bombs to set up projectile traps, throwing a couple at the opponent and then throwing out a boomerang to collide a split second after the bomb will. There's lots of ways to mix up bomb throws.
Always jump when you pull out a bomb.

Anyways, just some thoughts about projectiles. I have to say, this is a very disorganized and incomplete wall of text, but I'm just trying to give some ideas.

So, to answer your question about projectiles, yes, be gracious in your use of projectiles. Link is a spammy character.

 

[Bomber7]

TL;DR too many colors and I'm getting a headache from seeing it all. Also I can't read.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

MY main combos are zair to dacus, bomb to bair/dair/nair, and I've jab reset with nair before too.

 

[Rizen]

MY main combos are zair to dacus, bomb to bair/dair/nair, and I've jab reset with nair before too.

Link needs to use all his moves except maybe Dtilt to play well. Arrows have their place; Kirin was really good with arrows.

Utilt should be added to Link's 'fast' moves; it's almost as safe as jab.

Zair spacing: Watch until 2:34ish (starts frame 10, landing cancels, cancels airdodges. Link can space/time Zair to hit every opponent, even G&W when ducking it's about how low to the ground you start when falling)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LVeS5pMFPc&feature=player_detailpage#t=138s

Link can SH or jump camp. Why Link's hard to use is camping isn't systematic but about using the best choices to maximize spam and maintain spacing. Link doesn't traditionally camp so much as spacing spam. He needs to move around, adapt and throw in other attacks too http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=isGgoIlBAoA#t=186s (Huggles mentioned Link can live forever )

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=325062 (good read)
*Combining projectiles spacing (005A)

Spoiler

Hidden Message Hide
Link’s projectiles were programmed to be used and spaced together. Uncharged arrow and bomb spacing:

(Distance of) 1 quickdraw, 2 SH arrow, 3 jumped arrow, 4 weak bomb toss, 5 strong bomb throw, 6 SH/jumped bomb throw.
(Stated earlier) Link’s Gale Boomerang will start the wind effect and push at the end of its outward path and pull returning. This can lead to wind push gimps. There is an easy way to space the wind push. The horizontal distance where the wind push starts (thrown strait, ground bounced, angled up or down, thrown from the air or on the ground, it doesn't matter) is:
Tilted Boomerang throw: 1 (where an uncharged arrow and weak bomb toss lands)
Smashed: 2 (where a short hopped uncharged arrow lands)
Any Link who knows how to space their spamming can easily judge the proper distance. Smashed boomerang end of outward reach spacing:

(From top to bottom: Up angled, ground bounced, thrown strait)
Notice: Link’s boomerang has the same sideways reach no matter what angle it’s thrown. With vertical distance factored, it will travel farther and slightly faster if angled. Inputting angles that are in between notches on the hole around the control stick will result in shallower throw angles. The steepness of slopes in stages will influence the bounce as long as a strait vertical barrier isn’t hit. The boomerang will travel down as far as it can travel up from the plane where Link throws it if nothing gets in the way (not shown).
Bomb throws are Link’s fastest attack, which can be done OoS too. Often it is best to hold a bomb and use other attacks then throw it when you need a quick, high priority attack. Link can always shield/spotdodge/airdodge bombs exploding in his hands safely when their fuse runs out. Bombs and less-so arrows curve with gravity as the fly. Beware, some small characters can duck forward thrown bombs and arrows and even use low attacks under them without being hit.

Remember to move while spamming. SHs are best and Link can move around in many ways including FF tethering the ledge, jumps and slides etc to space and mix-up his camping. I use the term ‘camping’ but Link can’t truly camp for more than a few seconds. Camping for Link means moving and throwing projectiles to support spacing and deal damage. Because Link’s moving he needs to take advantage of his projectiles’ curves. Angle and ground bounce boomerang throws, throw bombs down, hold them etc as needed, charge arrows partially to increase their range and power: play mindgames and make the most of Link’s incredibly versatile projectile game.
Link’s spamming is slow so he needs to flood the screen with projectiles. Once he does this it forces the opponent to deal with them and gives Link’s fighting (figurative) momentum. He can play more offensively, land other attacks easily and chain several different moves together while keeping the opponent off balance. It’s important to recognize and take advantage of momentum when Link has it and reset bad situations or switch to defense when (not if) he loses it.

You'll never use the gale effect unless your trying for some fancy ATs, which pretty much rules using out since none of Link's ATs have a lot of use.

Here's where I disagree with most Links but I think the wind metagame is very underdeveloped.
These are intentional and only wind, not including the normal boomerang attack uses.
2 hit combos like Dsmash 1st and 2nd hit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS9ZLHcRFPU&feature=player_detailpage#t=165s
Forcing spacing (at the end the wind pushes out then pulls in)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS9ZLHcRFPU&feature=player_detailpage#t=101s
Using the wind push to gimp lag or free falling (people say this never works but it does; vs good people on and offline if used sparingly)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isGgoIlBAoA&feature=player_detailpage#t=326s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME5OhTdtFVE&feature=player_detailpage#t=243s
great edge stalling aid vs characters who anti-plank with guided range, flamethrower etc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwvkpeOnaNA&feature=player_detailpage#t=126s
It's a great range attack disruptor that stays out a long time (also moves items like grenades and bombs and detonates Snake's Dsmash mines)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pgthPo4Nmg&feature=player_detailpage#t=76s
Great for crossovers and disrupting spacing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdeC5g0RokA&feature=player_detailpage#t=85s
Basically the wind is an all around good spacing tool (not attack)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDlxfG6iyO0&feature=player_detailpage#t=61s

 

[MegaRobMan]

Rizen is the man, look at all this info, jezzzzzzzzzz.

 

[SHAWDY]

MY main combos are zair to dacus, bomb to bair/dair/nair, and I've jab reset with nair before too.

I didn't know you used link.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

It's a recent thing.

I'll never use him in tourney. But he's fun

 

[SHAWDY]

It's a recent thing.

I'll never use him in tourney. But he's fun

I will never use anyone else BUT Link in tourney. He is too much fun and I still think I have a chance to change the metagame for Link.

 

[Rizen]

Hi . Also checkout the Link xat group http://xat.com/BrawlersofHyrule I'm '...'.

@ Mink have you used Ganon in a tourney?
I might use other characters but tourneys are few and far between here . The only time I didn't go all Link was in a wifi Zelda only tourney lol.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I've gone Ganon. My Ganon is really good and I'm actually knowledgeable at high level play in a few MU with him.

 

[Rizen]

High level Ganons can be scary.
Lol, you can see Link was my main long before I picked up Wolf and Ganon.

 

[Anonano]

So, I don't know how many of you have noticed this yet, but here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=330262

That'll be something exciting for us all.

 

[Bomber7]

Note to self: never come to the Link board with a headache after having already been looking at walls of text from school work. It will only make things 100 times worse. @_@

 

[Rizen]

^there's only 1 wallOtext and it has helpful links.

So, I don't know how many of you have noticed this yet, but here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=330262

That'll be something exciting for us all.

Cool. Will it have a wifi finder chat? They probably will make it ready for SSB4 traffic and needs.


The thread title should mention this is the only social with a smile (icon to the left). Great work Scabe , I always like seeing that smile when there's new posts.

 

[Bomber7]

^there's only 1 wallOtext and it has helpful links.

All y'alls posts look the same to me. Long and colorful.

 

[Anonano]

We had the playoffs for the Balanced Brawl tourney last night. It was actually really intense. Had the top sixteen players in brackets playing sets of matches, single elimination. If there were ever ties the tiebreaker was to use a neutral stage (FD, SV, YI, or BF) with no items, 3 stocks, eight minutes. (You can see where they were getting their stuff lol)

Everybody was playing very aggressively, out of three rounds I got taken to 1 on 1's twice (which is what I was hoping for ). The 1 on 1's I participated in weren't too impressive (2 stocked the opponents), but there were a couple of 1 on 1's between a couple of other players that were really impressive for casual players. They could've been in a legitimate tourney. I'll post links to the vids as soon as they come out.

I got a freaking trophy for 1st place

Some guy was talking to me about Apex 2012 (he had to explain to me about the Melee finals--he knew way more about it than I did lol!) and a couple of others were discussing SDI versus DI. It was funny--and cool-- to see them starting to take Smash more seriously when I have been taking it less seriously, lol.

Also, the only true wall of text is one that I write, Rizen.

EDIT: A bunch of people starting referencing other players to smashboards, lol. The players here are getting more intense about their playing

 

[Bomber7]

I got a freaking trophy for 1st place

Congratz man, I can't wait to see the vids!

EDIT: A bunch of people starting referencing other players to smashboards, lol. The players here are getting more intense about their playing

Oh no, those poor innocent souls. Like lambs to the slaughter.

 

[Rizen]

Congratz, good work Ano!

Oh no, those poor innocent souls. Like lambs to the slaughter.

That would be BFC.

 

[tru0067]

What is our best move to finish a jab lock

 

[Rizen]

What is our best move to finish a jab lock

Most common is to charge an Fsmash because the opponent will be at the edge but SH Dair can be better vs light characters with good recoveries like Jiggz. If you're on wifi and are worried about timing, charge UpB right next to them and release as they get up for an easy side launch.

 

[Huggles828]

Nice work Ano!

Dsmash is also a move to consider after a jab lock. Although I tend to use a halfcharged upB usually since it's usually fresh (although after a jab lock most things should be fresh anyway).

 

[tru0067]

Should I use zair or fair on an opponent in front of me